Basic fighting skills

[Cornfed]

I showed some guys who are apparently setting up a security team some fighting and restraint techniques last night. It seemed to me we need some experimentation and practice to find techniques that work for everyone. I don't know if my techniques are so great. Then again, most security doesn't seem to be trained to a particularly high standard, and they would have a size advantage over most people. Hopefully they won't blame me in any situations go pear shaped.

[Lucas88]

I showed some guys who are apparently setting up a security team some fighting and restraint techniques last night. It seemed to me we need some experimentation and practice to find techniques that work for everyone. I don't know if my techniques are so great. Then again, most security doesn't seem to be trained to a particularly high standard, and they would have a size advantage over most people. Hopefully they won't blame me in any situations go pear shaped.

I don't think I can help you too much in this regard. I've never worked in security and don't know much about the restraining techniques that they use or whether they are effective. I only know how to grapple (Jiujitsu and wrestling) and certainly know how to take somebody down and restrain them on the ground with pins and armlocks and such but I don't know anything about the holds that security guards use to escort a troublemaker from the premises. You might be able to find some security technique manuals online and then try the techniques and see what works.

[Cornfed]

What is the best way of training for intricate things like standing arm locks? Is a paint by the numbers approach the way to go? I just don't seem to be getting things right the way I remember doing back in the day.

[Lucas88]

What is the best way of training for intricate things like standing arm locks? Is a paint by the numbers approach the way to go? I just don't seem to be getting things right the way I remember doing back in the day.

I've never really practiced standing armlocks since they are rarely used in MMA or Jiujitsu, but my recommendation would be that you incorporate some "aliveness" into your practice and try various armlocks against some degree of resistance from your training partners. Make up scenarios. Have your training partners come at you with a predetermined attacked and try to use the armlocks and other clinch techniques to restrain them. Keep it simple and see what works. Keep what does work and discard what doesn't.

Remember that in a real situation the mind doesn't have time to process all of the minutiae of an opponent's attack or react with an elaborate move. The techniques that are the most applicable to actual combat situations are the most simple movements which don't require too much thinking. That's why elaborate sequences that are taught in many martial arts classes don't work too often. I would focus on simple concepts and simple techniques that you can easily pull off reactively while under pressure from an aggressive opponent.

To be honest, I personally don't think that many of the standing armlocks and such which are commonly taught in security would be that effective against a strong and violent man who knows something about fighting. Even if I were working in security and had to learn certain approved techniques and follow certain protocols, I'd still want to have a solid wrestling-style clinch game just for in case the prescribed standing armlocks and restraint techniques don't work. I feel confident that I could outgrapple and either sweep or take down most people in a clinch/standing grappling scenario through the use of underhooks, overhooks, head and arm control and such but I wouldn't feel too confident using standing armlocks against a potentially inebriated or drug-fueled troublemaker. Just my reflection.

[Cornfed]

To be honest, I personally don't think that many of the standing armlocks and such which are commonly taught in security would be that effective against a strong and violent man who knows something about fighting.

They have worked for bouncers and such in NZ, so proof by existence. What would you suggest for moving or restraining people. There aren't that many options I can think of.

[Lucas88]

To be honest, I personally don't think that many of the standing armlocks and such which are commonly taught in security would be that effective against a strong and violent man who knows something about fighting.

They have worked for bouncers and such in NZ, so proof by existence. What would you suggest for moving or restraining people. There aren't that many options I can think of.

Can you post some videos? I wanna see footage of the techniques that you are talking about working in a live situation.

In order to restrain a violent troublemaker, I'd probably want to ground him (or her since many women are f'n' crazy too these days) and then pin him on the ground until my friends or colleagues can also get a hold of him, hoist him up and escort him off the premises. It's much easier to control somebody on the ground where you can use your own bodyweight and largely nullify their movement as well as most kinds of attacks. In the standing grappling phase, if you get a bodylock on somebody with two underhooks, you can often bring your bodylock grip down just above the opponent's waist and then pull towards yourself and completely collapse their base. This will ground them without any need for a violent throw or anything that might look too violent and will work on the majority of people who aren't trained in grappling. You should also have correct head position with your head lower than theirs and pushing into them.





If you are working in security, you'll have certain restraining techniques which you are supposed to use to restrain a violent troublemaker but I think that it would also be good to learn the above techniques and similar for in case the situation gets out of hand (like if the guy busts out of your standing armlocks and completely spazzes out on your) and you need to urgently ground him.

[Cornfed]

In order to restrain a violent troublemaker, I'd probably want to ground him (or her since many women are f'n' crazy too these days) and then pin him on the ground until my friends or colleagues can also get a hold of him, hoist him up and escort him off the premises.

Yes, if some big guy was wrecking the place and you wanted to arrest him, that is what you would do. Often though you lack the advantage of those sorts of numbers of people and also you would want methods that use less overt force.

[Cornfed]

Is there any judo-type sparring that can be safely don't on carpet rather than proper mats?

[Lucas88]

Is there any judo-type sparring that can be safely don't on carpet rather than proper mats?

Probably only the newaza (ground fighting) aspect of Judo. Actual Judo randori with throws and sweeps would hurt like hell on a carpet and might cause injury. Even doing it on a lawn would be better.

Do you live close to a sports center? If so, my advice would be to ask if you can rent a room within the facility and use their mats for your Judo training.

[HouseMD]

If you were designing a course in basic fighting skills, what sort of things would you include? I'm informally tutoring a couple of teens, teaching them the basics of judo and boxing and some self-defence tactics for more serious situations. I wonder if boys are still normally taught this stuff in mainstream Western society. It seems like a basic course might be valuable for people in general.

Judo and boxing are a great foundation. I would add in some life or death style training as well, such as knife and firearm use, critical strike areas, and basic first aid. I've got a nephew I'm training at the moment and it's made me realize I need to learn more to teach more, the kid's father is a dumbass that left him totally unprepared for the world at 15

[Cornfed]

Apparently one of the teenagers I'm teaching was challenged to a wrestling match by a guy who works for his father, as sometimes happens, and people were surprised when he beat the guy for the first time. He used a couple of the techniques I taught him, but he thinks the real advantage was knowing where to grab, how to move etc. If the account is accurate, it makes me feel quite proud.

[HouseMD]

Apparently one of the teenagers I'm teaching was challenged to a wrestling match by a guy who works for his father, as sometimes happens, and people were surprised when he beat the guy for the first time. He used a couple of the techniques I taught him, but he thinks the real advantage was knowing where to grab, how to move etc. If the account is accurate, it makes me feel quite proud.

Good work. The only good thing I've ever heard of you doing aside from working out and getting out of country, but hey, everyone has some redeeming qualities and capacity for redemption

[Cornfed]

BTW, does anyone know what the rules of engagement are for bouncers and other security people are in America and Latin America? When is it acceptable to strike people and such?

[HouseMD]

BTW, does anyone know what the rules of engagement are for bouncers and other security people are in America and Latin America? When is it acceptable to strike people and such?

In the United States it is the same as for any civilian, and thus is state-by-state in nature.

[Cornfed]

BTW, does anyone know what the rules of engagement are for bouncers and other security people are in America and Latin America? When is it acceptable to strike people and such?

In the United States it is the same as for any civilian, and thus is state-by-state in nature.

What would be common though? I would ask about Texas, but it sounds like that might be an outlier.