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Historical Populations

If you're a history buff, love to talk about history and watch the History Channel, this is the board for that.

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Citizen
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Joined: August 1st, 2016, 11:01 pm

Historical Populations

Post by Citizen » October 4th, 2016, 11:06 pm

Another thread is asking about US imperialism. That got me to wondering why Europe embarked upon colonialism and why the people who lived in Europe were so successful. I looked up historical population figures on wikipedia (obviously wikipedia is not very a reliable source if somebody has more reliable data that would be cool).

just estimated populations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... on_in_1800
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... on_in_1900

Wikipedia is showing that Europe had a large percentage of the global population. In 1900 roughly 500 million of 1.7 billion? In 1800 perhaps 200 million of 1 billion? Industrialization, intensive farming, and perhaps God being in Europe at the time would contribute to the growth, cheap plentiful food. If it is true that Europe had such a comparatively large population that would explain how the people of Europe were able to fund and implement technological advances, field large armies and submit various peoples. It would also explain European adventurism/colonialism. Europe was too small to contain it's population. It had lots of men (people) who couldn't farm (the land was already stolen from indigenous Europeans and not enough land remained to give to more farmers plus there was already too much food of the kinds they could produce) so other things were found for people to do. Now the shoe is on the other foot. The peoples of the world that were pushed down by European invaders now have the large populations of young healthy people.
Thing is, in many of the growing countries, the environment is in bad shape. Falling water table, soil loss, desertification, drought, deforestation....now Asians and Africans are finding their lands too small for them.
Do you think it is easier for Asians and Africans to invade North America or Europe and Asian Russia?

Russian1860
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Re: Historical Populations

Post by Russian1860 » October 5th, 2016, 12:23 pm

The point is, that the major reason of migration in the modern world is chase of the better quality of life.
Very few find their land to be too small to be able to live there, so migration is barely caused by geographical reasons. People just want to live more wealthy, and it’s quite logical to try their luck in the first world countries.

Look at the Syrian civil war. People don’t flee to Russia, or muslim Saudi Arabia, since they know that nobody will care of them there, if they won't work. They want to get allowance instead, doing nothing. And that is why Europe is considered as best retreat. I think, it will be like that, until Europe dramatically toughens its foreign policy, just like Australia, South Africa or USA did.

Regarding future, you are right. In perspective, the population will be so huge, that it will be unable to sustain itself within current political borders.

Kradmelder
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Re: Historical Populations

Post by Kradmelder » October 5th, 2016, 1:49 pm

At the time there was excess population in europe, but also there was the race for resources. There was the spice trade,of which the muslims controlled the overland route. The high price that had to be paid meant trying to find sea routes.Columbus went to find a route to the spices, not to settle. Same with the jewish silk merchants. There was also the hunt for gold and wealth to fund kingdoms and armies.

Colonies meant resources and customers for your goods. And power. Different colonies attracted different types, For the english, America was to go farm. Australia, well if you were criminal rif raff no one wanted you were dumped as far away as possible :lol: Kenya attracted upper class gentry primarily. South Africa got refugees of religious persecution, french protestants, scottish Presbyterians who wanted a calvinistic society, german soldiers and ducth company men or do gooder Missionaries.Unfortunately the finds of gold and diamonds brought the cancer of an infestation of jews. America took any white, so got all the irish, germans, russians etc. Not always because there land was in decay.

The new migrants have no intention of farming. They do not go to empty lands. They come for handouts. Africa is full of empty lands. They try and attract white farmers. It has plenty of resources, but it has the most useless people on the planet and whatever you try and do they will steal it or vandalise it.. They just breed and produce nothing. Like locusts, they just devour. Why don't these migrants go farm in africa? Because it is too much like hard work.

RyanMexico
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Re: Historical Populations

Post by RyanMexico » October 5th, 2016, 3:02 pm

Russian1860 wrote:The point is, that the major reason of migration in the modern world is chase of the better quality of life.
Very few find their land to be too small to be able to live there, so migration is barely caused by geographical reasons. People just want to live more wealthy, and it’s quite logical to try their luck in the first world countries.

Look at the Syrian civil war. People don’t flee to Russia, or muslim Saudi Arabia, since they know that nobody will care of them there, if they won't work. They want to get allowance instead, doing nothing. And that is why Europe is considered as best retreat. I think, it will be like that, until Europe dramatically toughens its foreign policy, just like Australia, South Africa or USA did.

Regarding future, you are right. In perspective, the population will be so huge, that it will be unable to sustain itself within current political borders.
Why would anyone go to Russia for opportunities? with the collapse of the Russian ruble beginning in the second half of 2014 the ruble is like toilet paper. Those fleeing the Syrian crisis have for several years been crossing into Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey in huge numbers AND working. Turkey is of particular note because, as Syria’s neighbor, it’s received about half of the Syrian refugee inflows, some 2 million since March 2011, the IMF says, drawing on United Nations statistics. That’s the equivalent of 2.5% of Turkey’s own population. Beyond the roughly $8 billion Turkey has spent providing a home for these refugees, the economic impact is noteworthy, if perhaps expected. These refugees are only allowed to work in Turkey’s “informal” sector. What’s happened, the IMF report says, is that these refugees have displaced female Turkish workers with low-education levels in agricultural jobs. But higher-paid, formal jobs filled by native workers have increased, and so have average wages — suggesting, according to the IMF, a compositional change in employment. Which is no doubt what Recep Tayyip Erdogan wants, as he shifts Turkey to Islamic State.

Entering other Arab states - especially in the Gulf - is far less straightforward. In Saudi Arabia it near impossible to gain nationality. In 2012, Kuwait even announced an official strategy to reduce the number of foreign workers in the emirate by a million over 10 years. These counties are more like rich neighborhoods, they are not real economies.

Refugee IMPACT on Europe’s economy is pretty much ZERO. Germany wants and needs more workers to replace its declining population.

http://bruegel.org/2015/10/how-will-ref ... economies/

Mark Schieritz looks into the debate of how much refugees will cost Germany and cites estimates from RWI Essen, which amount to 10 bn EUR for 2015, and should be even higher for 2016. This is similar to the estimates from the German government, which estimates costs to amount to 12000 Eur per refugee per year. Nevertheless, despite the extra-spending related to the refugee crisis, the German budget surplus will rise from 0.3% of GDP to 0.6% of GDP in 2015. Schieritz explains this by stating that the extra-spending does not vanish in a black hole, but is actually stimulating internal demand in Germany. To what extent refugees will then be able to contribute to the sustainability of the welfare state in Germany will depend on many factors, including their ease of access to the labour market.

Seriously, do you really think Europeans are so feeble minded? :roll:

RyanMexico
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Re: Historical Populations

Post by RyanMexico » October 5th, 2016, 3:20 pm

Kradmelder wrote:
The new migrants have no intention of farming. They do not go to empty lands. They come for handouts. Africa is full of empty lands. They try and attract white farmers. It has plenty of resources, but it has the most useless people on the planet and whatever you try and do they will steal it or vandalise it.. They just breed and produce nothing. Like locusts, they just devour. Why don't these migrants go farm in africa? Because it is too much like hard work.
Yeah, the British said the same thing about the Irish(Irish economy surges 26% in 2015) and now the Poles.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-handouts

Russian1860
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Re: Historical Populations

Post by Russian1860 » October 6th, 2016, 8:44 am

RyanMexico wrote:Why would anyone go to Russia for opportunities? with the collapse of the Russian ruble beginning in the second half of 2014 the ruble is like toilet paper.
You are very wrong, if you think so.
Read this one: https://sputniknews.com/russia/20130912 ... Study.html
and this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Russia
RyanMexico wrote: Those fleeing the Syrian crisis have for several years been crossing into Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey in huge numbers AND working. Turkey is of particular note because, as Syria’s neighbor, it’s received about half of the Syrian refugee inflows, some 2 million since March 2011, the IMF says, drawing on United Nations statistics. That’s the equivalent of 2.5% of Turkey’s own population.
99% of refugees consider a Turkey as a temporary retreat solely. A half of them intend to return to Syria, the other half searches a possibility to immigrate to Europe forever. Why to work in Turkey, if they can live on allowance in Europe?
RyanMexico wrote: Refugee IMPACT on Europe’s economy is pretty much ZERO. Germany wants and needs more workers to replace its declining population.
I disagree. First of all almost no one of those refugees is willing to work. Why to work, if the amount of allowance and other exemptions allow them to live quite normally. Besides economic significance, you should take into account other consequences, such as crime level, muslim lifestyle imposing etc. It is political decision to be tolerant towards refugees, but most European people are against that. If it will continue like that, I am afraid Europeans will become same racists, as South Africans. And that is for a reason.

RyanMexico
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Re: Historical Populations

Post by RyanMexico » October 6th, 2016, 9:39 am

Lol,

1. your article cites a 2013 estimate. I said WITH the collapse of the Russian ruble beginning in the ***second half of 2014**** the ruble is like toilet paper. Russia waas doing great until then.

2. This living on allowance thing is something you made up in your mind (like 99% of the posts of this silly board). First off all, refugees in Europe are limited to three years stay. If they don't show they are willing to work, they are kicked out. Only the ones holding jobs for years can apply to stay.

3. See above, you have no idea what you're talking about. Half of Syrian refugees are Christian and the other half don't give a shit.

4. If you're afraid Europeans will become the same OLD racists in South Africans YOU'RE mistaken. For a long time in America Italian and Irish were targets but after all the OLD racist people died they were integrated fine.

Btw, South African is doing fine.

pandabear
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Location: USA

Re: Historical Populations

Post by pandabear » October 6th, 2016, 11:59 pm

Oh, my. Does Russia now have its own version of China's 50-Cent Brigade?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFdr4gWsGog[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFdr4gWsGog

Russian1860
Freshman Poster
Posts: 188
Joined: September 22nd, 2016, 5:16 pm

Re: Historical Populations

Post by Russian1860 » October 7th, 2016, 7:13 am

RyanMexico wrote:Lol,
1. your article cites a 2013 estimate. I said WITH the collapse of the Russian ruble beginning in the ***second half of 2014**** the ruble is like toilet paper. Russia waas doing great until then.
Well, you have a point, that due to ruble fluctuation, Russia became less attractive for immigrants recently. Perhaps, immigration tendency has been decreasing within last 2 years, but not dramatically. The thing is, most of immigrants don’t have other alternative than Russia, since most of them come from former USSR republics, where standards of living are still much lower. Due to their geographical locations, ties with Russia, including language, they have not too much options to choose from. Thus, you still can rely on the links above.

I can’t find recent statistics in English, but if you are so desperate, you can check some information in Russian and use online translator, so that to translate:

http://www.gks.ru/bgd/regl/b16_107/Main.htm
You should click to "Миграция" (migration), then choose “Международная миграция Российской Федерации в 2015 году”, which is translated as “international migration of Russian Federation in 2015”. You can find a statistics by countries there, including a number of new-came and gone. In total the number of immigrants in 2015 had increased comparing with 2014. Although the number of immigrants from European countries and USA had decreased.
RyanMexico wrote: 2. This living on allowance thing is something you made up in your mind (like 99% of the posts of this silly board). First off all, refugees in Europe are limited to three years stay. If they don't show they are willing to work, they are kicked out. Only the ones holding jobs for years can apply to stay.

3. See above, you have no idea what you're talking about. Half of Syrian refugees are Christian and the other half don't give a shit.
I haven’t heard of that, but let’s assume that is truth.
Refugees have freedom of movement in EU. They can relocate to any European country they wish to, which will generate a hordes of illegal immigrants, who doesn’t want to be deported. A minimal wage in western Europe allows to live on, while in Turkey, it doesn’t. Which one would they choose?

Regarding Syrian refugees, who “don’t give a shit”, read this one for an instance: http://www.indiatimes.com/news/world/ge ... 49310.html
RyanMexico wrote:4. If you're afraid Europeans will become the same OLD racists in South Africans YOU'RE mistaken. For a long time in America Italian and Irish were targets but after all the OLD racist people died they were integrated fine.
I think, it is incorrect comparison. Italians in USA didn’t impose their traditions and rules in such aggressive manner, as refugees do.
Last edited by Russian1860 on October 7th, 2016, 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Russian1860
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Re: Historical Populations

Post by Russian1860 » October 7th, 2016, 7:17 am

pandabear wrote:Oh, my. Does Russia now have its own version of China's 50-Cent Brigade?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFdr4gWsGog[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFdr4gWsGog
:lol: :lol: :lol:
No, chill. I am not a troll. Being a russian or chinese doesn't automatically means he works for intelligence. I don't appeal someone to read or to reply my posts.

Kradmelder
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Re: Historical Populations

Post by Kradmelder » October 7th, 2016, 10:41 am

Russian1860 wrote:
pandabear wrote:Oh, my. Does Russia now have its own version of China's 50-Cent Brigade?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFdr4gWsGog[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFdr4gWsGog
:lol: :lol: :lol:
No, chill. I am not a troll. Being a russian or chinese doesn't automatically means he works for intelligence. I don't appeal someone to read or to reply my posts.
Russian, I didn't know you could paid rubles to post here? :lol: I thought only jews got paid to troll looking for for anti-semitic posts :lol: . You are not being paid? That means at least you are not a Zhid :lol:

Israel: Government pays students to fight internet battles
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from ... e-23695896
The Prime Minister's office is reportedly spending around £540,000 recruiting more than 500 students to respond to social media posts calling for boycotts and sanctions against the country, the Jerusalem Post says. Those with foreign language skills who receive these "scholarships" would not identify themselves as being in the pay of the government. Instead, Israel's Ha'aretz newspaper says, the plan is to make the programme appear to be based on the activity of politically-neutral students, with the Prime Minister's Office also hoping to recruit from pro-Israel student groups from around the world.
I'm also gad to hear SA is doing OK. Our Rand went from 1:1 with the dollar during sanctions, 2:1 before the darkies took over, and is now about 15:1. Our economy has been downgraded a few times and is now on the verge of junk status, half the universities are closed due to riots and students will lose the entire year. Race relations are at the worst ever so that blacks have taken to trolling facebook and prosecuting anyone who uses the K word or refers to them as simian, and there is not a liberal left. Blacks post kill all the whites, and advertise they have free time to help kill whites. Education has collapsed with a matric rate of 30%. Health has collapsed so the hospitals are gutted and no one will go to a government hospital. Home affairs is so corrupt selling IDs and passports that just about everyone now requires a visa. Our president has standard 8 education, 800 fraud charges, and just got forced by the court some of the money he defrauded for upgrades to his palace. But the expert thinks we are doing OK. Good to know. Perhaps he will invest his money here with one of the affirmative action investors since he has such confidence in the rainbow nation multiculti paradise :lol:

When you read moronic things it is best to just ignore them. Your ruble is junk and your country is a shit hole with Putin, while SA with a corrupt fraudster pilfering everything is OK. I guess only Israel is a paradise. Maybe we should emigrate there. Oh wait, we are not allowed to, nor can we own land there since we are not jewish. Even conversion would not help since we are not of the race.

Russian1860
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Re: Historical Populations

Post by Russian1860 » October 7th, 2016, 11:26 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:
You made me laugh again. I wonder, where do you get so much positive power to remain jocund and ironic always :wink:

Kradmelder
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Posts: 1716
Joined: September 6th, 2016, 1:59 pm

Re: Historical Populations

Post by Kradmelder » October 7th, 2016, 11:31 am

Russian1860 wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:
You made me laugh again. I wonder, where do you get so much positive power to remain jocund and ironic always :wink:
From being happily single bru. No woman to depress my mood and tell how awful I am. From hobbies that are really spiritually uplifting. Only a biker will understand this. From kids that make me proud to be their dad and bring lots of joy. From not living in a plastic and concrete wasteland and have awesome raw physical nature. And from segregating myself from races that just want to steal from me and kill me :lol:

jaylee
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Joined: October 10th, 2016, 11:30 pm

Re: Historical Populations

Post by jaylee » October 14th, 2016, 10:34 pm

Kradmelder wrote:
Russian1860 wrote:
pandabear wrote:Oh, my. Does Russia now have its own version of China's 50-Cent Brigade?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFdr4gWsGog[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFdr4gWsGog
:lol: :lol: :lol:
No, chill. I am not a troll. Being a russian or chinese doesn't automatically means he works for intelligence. I don't appeal someone to read or to reply my posts.
Russian, I didn't know you could paid rubles to post here? :lol: I thought only jews got paid to troll looking for for anti-semitic posts :lol: . You are not being paid? That means at least you are not a Zhid :lol:

Israel: Government pays students to fight internet battles
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from ... e-23695896
The Prime Minister's office is reportedly spending around £540,000 recruiting more than 500 students to respond to social media posts calling for boycotts and sanctions against the country, the Jerusalem Post says. Those with foreign language skills who receive these "scholarships" would not identify themselves as being in the pay of the government. Instead, Israel's Ha'aretz newspaper says, the plan is to make the programme appear to be based on the activity of politically-neutral students, with the Prime Minister's Office also hoping to recruit from pro-Israel student groups from around the world.
I'm also gad to hear SA is doing OK. Our Rand went from 1:1 with the dollar during sanctions, 2:1 before the darkies took over, and is now about 15:1. Our economy has been downgraded a few times and is now on the verge of junk status, half the universities are closed due to riots and students will lose the entire year. Race relations are at the worst ever so that blacks have taken to trolling facebook and prosecuting anyone who uses the K word or refers to them as simian, and there is not a liberal left. Blacks post kill all the whites, and advertise they have free time to help kill whites. Education has collapsed with a matric rate of 30%. Health has collapsed so the hospitals are gutted and no one will go to a government hospital. Home affairs is so corrupt selling IDs and passports that just about everyone now requires a visa. Our president has standard 8 education, 800 fraud charges, and just got forced by the court some of the money he defrauded for upgrades to his palace. But the expert thinks we are doing OK. Good to know. Perhaps he will invest his money here with one of the affirmative action investors since he has such confidence in the rainbow nation multiculti paradise :lol:

When you read moronic things it is best to just ignore them. Your ruble is junk and your country is a shit hole with Putin, while SA with a corrupt fraudster pilfering everything is OK. I guess only Israel is a paradise. Maybe we should emigrate there. Oh wait, we are not allowed to, nor can we own land there since we are not jewish. Even conversion would not help since we are not of the race.
Yeah, South Africa is doing just fine despite your hysterical nonsense. You must be some uneducated day labor. GDP grew an annualized 3.3% in three months through June, which contrasted Q1’s decrease. The expansion reflected an improvement in all sectors of the economy with a notably strong rebound in the manufacturing sector, which accounts for more than 10% of the economy. However, severe droughts across the country, political uncertainty and low commodity prices will limit growth this year. For 2017, SA growth is expected around to be around of 1.2%.

The biggest problem with SA is the legacy from the stupid white apartheid government

http://www.globaleducationmagazine.com/ ... ies-world/

:roll:
Mental illness researcher @ culturewhiz.org

pandabear
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Posts: 2077
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Location: USA

Re: Historical Populations

Post by pandabear » October 18th, 2016, 4:03 am

Kradmelder wrote: Russian, I didn't know you could paid rubles to post here? :lol: I thought only jews got paid to troll looking for for anti-semitic posts :lol: . You are not being paid? That means at least you are not a Zhid :lol:
http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-i ... ump-2016-7

Russian trolls are apparently posing as conservatives and trolling for Trump.

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