world cup 2022!!!

[Pixel--Dude]

In fact, I would go as far as to say I hate football. I think it is a shit sport. UFC is much better than Soccerball by a country mile football is just a group of men running around in shorts chasing a ball of rubber. It's f***ing wank

[CaptainSkelebob]

In fact, I would go as far as to say I hate football. I think it is a shit sport. UFC is much better than Soccerball by a country mile football is just a group of men running around in shorts chasing a ball of rubber. It's f***ing wank

You are cringe as f**k fella...
How the f**k can you compare football and ufc??
They are 2 totally different kinds of sports!!!
It would be like comparing golf and tiddlywinks
Dumbass

[Pixel--Dude]

In fact, I would go as far as to say I hate football. I think it is a shit sport. UFC is much better than Soccerball by a country mile football is just a group of men running around in shorts chasing a ball of rubber. It's f***ing wank

You are cringe as f**k fella...
How the f**k can you compare football and ufc??
They are 2 totally different kinds of sports!!!
It would be like comparing golf and tiddlywinks
Dumbass

It's pronounced: Dumas

[publicduende]

I do indeed know that the Spanish national anthem is no longer sung with words but I sing the lyrics anyway - even as members of the Spanish national team just awkwardly stand there in silence!

I'm not even a Francoist but I consider myself a fervent lover of Spanish culture, enjoy listening to patriotic Francoist Spanish songs and even like to sing them with some of my Spanish friends as a joke and for the "taboo" factor (that's why I also uploaded Cara al Sol - but it seems like you were the only one who got it! ).

There is also the earlier Alfonso XIII version of the Spanish anthem:

I don't know everyone in Spain but, based on the few people I met and spoke to, Spaniards seem to associate patriotism with anti-Francoism, that is, the vaguely Communist-inspired movements that liberated the country from the spectre of fascism. Even Spaniards of today tend to be even more left-leaning than, say, voters in France or Italy.

Just be careful professing your love for Francoist times and icons, it might rub the wrong way with those you're talking to.

[Lucas88]

I don't know everyone in Spain but, based on the few people I met and spoke to, Spaniards seem to associate patriotism with anti-Francoism, that is, the vaguely Communist-inspired movements that liberated the country from the spectre of fascism. Even Spaniards of today tend to be even more left-leaning than, say, voters in France or Italy.

Just be careful professing your love for Francoist times and icons, it might rub the wrong way with those you're talking to.

Spain is a politically diverse country not only due to its unique recent history but also due to the various regional separatisms which exist throughout the peninsula and so different groups of Spaniards associate patriotism with different things. For some reason, the wrestling club which I attended there was largely populated by sympathizers of Francoism and they were all extremely patriotic and often uploaded Francoist propaganda images to our club's WhatsApp group. They loved me a lot too because I used to tell them about how much I adore Spain and Spanish culture and how I believe in the superiority of Mediterranean civilization. But Spaniards of other political persuasions may subscribe to a different interpretation of patriotism that is anti-Francoist.

That said, my young patriotic gen-Z friend tells me that a subset of the Spanish left now expresses anti-patriotic sentiments regarding Spain as an evil former colonialist power. Because of this he and his anti-leftist friends often sing Francoist songs such as Cara al Sol with the aim of mocking and pissing off anti-patriotic leftists.

I of course despise the radical left and especially any anti-Spanish sentiments, but I don't support Francoism either even though it still has its fans among a minority of the population. I've given my attention to the testimonies of Spaniards who actually lived under Franco and read a bit about the regime and, from what I've gathered, life mostly sucked in those times. For me, Francoism serves as a recent reminder of why the dictatorial, ultra-conservative, religion-inspired forms of government for which some people advocate even here on this forum are a bad idea. My singing of Francoist songs is purely in jest.

[publicduende]

Spain is a politically diverse country not only due to its unique recent history but also due to the various regional separatisms which exist throughout the peninsula and so different groups of Spaniards associate patriotism with different things. For some reason, the wrestling club which I attended there was largely populated by sympathizers of Francoism and they were all extremely patriotic and often uploaded Francoist propaganda images to our club's WhatsApp group. They loved me a lot too because I used to tell them about how much I adore Spain and Spanish culture and how I believe in the superiority of Mediterranean civilization. But Spaniards of other political persuasions may subscribe to a different interpretation of patriotism that is anti-Francoist.

That said, my young patriotic gen-Z friend tells me that a subset of the Spanish left now expresses anti-patriotic sentiments regarding Spain as an evil former colonialist power. Because of this he and his anti-leftist friends often sing Francoist songs such as Cara al Sol with the aim of mocking and pissing off anti-patriotic leftists.

I of course despise the radical left and especially any anti-Spanish sentiments, but I don't support Francoism either even though it still has its fans among a minority of the population. I've given my attention to the testimonies of Spaniards who actually lived under Franco and read a bit about the regime and, from what I've gathered, life mostly sucked in those times. For me, Francoism serves as a recent reminder of why the dictatorial, ultra-conservative, religion-inspired forms of government for which some people advocate even here on this forum are a bad idea. My singing of Francoist songs is purely in jest.

Of course @Lucas88, every country, apart from de facto dictatorships like China and Singapore, is politically diverse. If you hang out at boxing and MMA gyms anywhere in Europe, you tend to meet a few more right-wing fanatics than usual. A few of them might be well-educated and have genuine traditional beliefs in the "God, Homeland, and Family" triad. The vast majority, though, are just unemployed thugs who think they look tougher and more manly by showing off tattoos and allegiance to Mussolini, Franco or Hitler.

Are you from the US? I think there's a cultural bias at play here. A "patriot" in the US is usually a synonym for a traditional, Republican-voting family man who wants to preserve his personal and business freedoms, considering them both foundational values of the US nation.

As we were ravaged by national socialist and fascist movements for the most part of the 20th century, we Europeans don't associate "patriotism" with alignment with any national socialist and fascist ideology. Communism in Europe was initially one such expression of national socialism (officially, Socialism predates Communism by several decades) so "being a patriot" simply means fighting against those ideologies and those who turned them into an ideological veneer for dictatorships and tyrannies. In Hungary or Poland, being a patriot means having fought the Soviet regime. In Italy or Spain, it's a synonym of "partigiano", fighting against the fascists, especially during the tail end of WW2, when they knew they had militarily lost and their prosecution of civilians became even more brutal.

I understand you're familiar with or "clued up" about Spanish history and culture. However, stirring up symbols and icons of historical periods people want to forget, even purely in jest as you say, might not be a good idea.

[Lucas88]

Are you from the US? I think there's a cultural bias at play here. A "patriot" in the US is usually a synonym for a traditional, Republican-voting family man who wants to preserve his personal and business freedoms, considering them both foundational values of the US nation.

No, I'm not from the US. I'm from the UK and have English and Irish ancestry, but I'm a self-hating Brit who loathes the UK and British culture, loves Spain and everything Hispanic, regards Mediterranean/Latin culture as inherently superior, and only dates Latin American females. That's basically my character around here - and, to be honest, I thought that by now I'd be more memorable on this forum but I guess not ( ). I lived in Spain for a few years and then in Latin America, speak fluent Spanish and was even engaged to a Latina at one point, so I've walked the walk I guess I could say.

As we were ravaged by national socialist and fascist movements for the most part of the 20th century, we Europeans don't associate "patriotism" with alignment with any national socialist and fascist ideology. Communism in Europe was initially one such expression of national socialism (officially, Socialism predates Communism by several decades) so "being a patriot" simply means fighting against those ideologies and those who turned them into an ideological veneer for dictatorships and tyrannies. In Hungary or Poland, being a patriot means having fought the Soviet regime. In Italy or Spain, it's a synonym of "partigiano", fighting against the fascists, especially during the tail end of WW2, when they knew they had militarily lost and their prosecution of civilians became even more brutal.

That might have been the case in previous generations but today it seems that even in Spain the "progressive" left or at least a subset thereof harbors anti-patriotic sentiments. My friend tells me that the young progressive leftists at his college tend to despise Spain, criticize Spain for colonial crimes which occurred centuries ago, insult the Spanish flag and other national symbols, view Spanish society as backward and ignorant, and idealize other countries which they consider "more progressive". It's just the typical leftist oikophobia that can now be seen in many parts of the Western world. This is the context in which my friend and his friends take up Francoist anthems and symbolism as a way to "trigger" those same oikophobic progressive leftists, even if it is just jokingly. In Spanish left-leaning and progressive circles displays of support for Francoism are the ultimate political taboo. That's where the humor comes from for my patriotic friend given the anti-patriotism of his progressive foes (some of us have a dark and twisted sense of humor).

I understand you're familiar with or "clued up" about Spanish history and culture. However, stirring up symbols and icons of historical periods people want to forget, even purely in jest as you say, might not be a good idea.

It's not something that I do in public or even often, just something that I do from time to time with a select group of friends when we're goofing around. I don't need to stir up symbols and icons from the past because some Spaniards already do that and it only causes hostilities and falling out. Guys have fallen out at my wrestling club over political differences. The second instructor who isn't a Francoist even threatened to leave the club's WhatsApp group after one of the Francoist guys started talking about how he thinks that the government should line up ideological enemies and national traitors for the firing squad (some of the second instructor's relatives were killed by firing squad during the Civil War). I have no intention of adding to such hostilities and drama.

There are indeed a fair number of fascist sympathizers at boxing and MMA gyms throughout Europe, but you know where there are many others? Among football fans (ultras)! That was why I uploaded some Francoist anthems to this thread in particular. It was part of the joke!

I apologize if my jokes here have offended your sensitivities in any way due to any of your lived experiences in post-fascist Italy. I honestly though that nobody would give a shit here on HappierAbroad. Lol!

[CaptainSkelebob]

@Lucas88 Spain are in the same group as Germany so I dont think they will do well im afraid
Spain are not as strong a team as they used to be
I think brazil or argentina will win but I hope england win

[Jsport]

CaptainSkelebob

England is a top team but overrated. Their players are not as a good as players from Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, France, and several others. I'm not saying that USA is good. This is not a good US team going into the World cup, but I root for them because I'm American. I am more of a Soccer player than a fan. I'm not the type who will argue with other fans about which team is better, because I show my Futbol skills on the field. With that being said, I like England as a country and as a Footballing nation, but they very often under perform and are often overhyped, because the team and the players are simply not as good as the other top teams.

[Jsport]

Lucas88

I can understand your preference of Spanish culture over British culture. Basically the same things that you describe about the UK, I see a lot of that here in The US as well. It seems that the US and The UK have a common culture of social coldness. I find Americans in general to be cold people in the same ways I see how British people are, whereas Spanish people are generally warmer and more inclusive, even if some of them are quiet or reserved. It's strange because I have talked to beautiful white American women before and even though they can be friendly, it's just so hard to connect with them socially. I would imagine it's similar with beautiful white English women. But at least in the UK, Soccer is the main sport, and England is the home of Association Football, whereas here in the US, Soccer is a niche sport played and watched only by certain people. I can also see why your not really into Soccer, because you are into Martial arts. Soccer and martial arts are two completely different disciplines that don't really go hand in hand with each other, which is why I never really got into Martial arts. But yeah I do see that Spanish culture is more comforting than Anglo culture. But it's like what I said in other posts, Spanish culture is also a culture that I also don't fully resonate with either, because my personality and my mentality, is different from them, just like how I feel I'm also different from Americans. I feel that I have more of a northern European mentality, and feel that culturally I would fit in more in any of the northern European countries. But you feel you more Latin which is also cool. That just shows how you can be born into one culture but identify more with a different culture.

[Pixel--Dude]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... oBf6UMuTbH

Apparently in Qatar people have been dying and forced into slave labour to build these stadiums for the entertainment of "civilised" countries. I think this is something that is disgusting!

Apparently as well there has been plenty of corruption in football with Fifa accepting a 400 million "donation" from Qatar seems the roots of evil are not only set in the public health sector and other government institutions, but also in football as well!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... pyBI422Fwz

[Lucas88]

But you feel you more Latin which is also cool. That just shows how you can be born into one culture but identify more with a different culture.

That's definitely true. People who dislike their own birth culture and strongly prefer another one are not as uncommon as one might think. I took a look at some threads on Reddit and found testimonies of many such cases.

I think that I'm quite an extreme case. I was born and raised in the UK but I'm absolutely unable to connect with most British people on a social level or relate to British culture at all. Nor do I like any British cultural trends or even the language spoken here which just grates my ears and depresses me with its unpleasant and soulless qualities. I just feel completely lost in British society as though I were a ghost with no identity or sense of belonging and became extremely depressed and almost lost my mind due to the alienation that I suffered.

Fortunately, when I was 18, I went to Spain for immersive language school during the summer and discovered a culture with which I was compatible. I was always a Hispanophile and had been studying Spanish seriously for about a year and half and was placed in the C1 level (advanced) classes right from the start. I also did a homestay program with a Spanish family. I soon realized that life in Spain was much different. People were friendlier and more inclusive by orders of magnitude. Everybody who I met treated me like a normal person at the very least or even enthusiastically conversed with me even though my social skills at that time were still quite deficient (I never had much of a chance to develop my social skills in the UK because of social exclusion). The difference with the UK was night and day. My experience of Spanish culture that year was like a spiritual rebirth for me. I knew that I had discovered something good and which I wanted to be a part of as well as an escape from the dreary and soul-killing wasteland that is British culture.

My strategy in light of my hatred of my native country and misfit status has thus far been one of near-total avoidance. I relocated to Spain (and also spent significant time in Latin America) as soon as I had the means to do so, adopted a new linguistic identity meaning speaking only Spanish for months at a time, and avoided British people except for a handful of family members and one close friend from childhood (this forum's Pixel--Dude). However, I soon realized that even if you don't identify with your own nationality others will still identify you as such. Because of this I have always felt the need to avoid Spaniards and others who draw too much attention to my unwanted British nationality, display Anglophilic tendencies or, heaven forbid, are L2 English speakers and attempt to speak with me in English just because of my (again unwanted) native Anglophone status. I immediately put such people on my real-life "foes list" (just like the one we have on this forum). All of this is actually necessary for my own mental wellbeing. Since I cannot relate to British culture at all, I don't even know how to "act British" and so I immediately feel uncomfortable and out of place whenever anybody associates me with that culture against my will.

Some people who know about my Hispanophilia and ethnic self-hatred tell me that I should learn to love my own nationality. But that is impossible. The soul simply has its objects of love and hatred and one cannot change what one loves and hates. I cannot pretend to love something which is alien to the nature of my soul and which even produces discomfort for me. I therefore continue with my strategy of avoidance and self-imposed segregation from British people and culture and understand that my grievances are with destiny itself!

[Jsport]

Lucas88

I'm curious to see what your opinion about US culture is compared to British culture, because it doesn't seem that you see British and American culture similar to each other socially. And I notice that you are not as critical about US culture as you are about British culture. But I personally see a big similarity between both cultures when it comes to social isolation, since also they are both Anglo countries. In the same way you say that you don't connect with British people, I also don't connect with American people socially. I just notice that you are a little more fond of the US than the UK.

Spain is actually a great country culturally speaking and I can see why you are so fond of Spain. But what many people don't realize is that the culture from Spain is distinct from Latin American culture. The only countries in Latin America that are closest to Spain culturally and European culture in general are Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay.

But anyways you give good insights on different cultures, and it's nice to have a discussion with someone who knows the nuances of different cultures.

[WanderingProtagonist]

But you feel you more Latin which is also cool. That just shows how you can be born into one culture but identify more with a different culture.

That's definitely true. People who dislike their own birth culture and strongly prefer another one are not as uncommon as one might think. I took a look at some threads on Reddit and found testimonies of many such cases.

I think that I'm quite an extreme case. I was born and raised in the UK but I'm absolutely unable to connect with most British people on a social level or relate to British culture at all. Nor do I like any British cultural trends or even the language spoken here which just grates my ears and depresses me with its unpleasant and soulless qualities. I just feel completely lost in British society as though I were a ghost with no identity or sense of belonging and became extremely depressed and almost lost my mind due to the alienation that I suffered.

Fortunately, when I was 18, I went to Spain for immersive language school during the summer and discovered a culture with which I was compatible. I was always a Hispanophile and had been studying Spanish seriously for about a year and half and was placed in the C1 level (advanced) classes right from the start. I also did a homestay program with a Spanish family. I soon realized that life in Spain was much different. People were friendlier and more inclusive by orders of magnitude. Everybody who I met treated me like a normal person at the very least or even enthusiastically conversed with me even though my social skills at that time were still quite deficient (I never had much of a chance to develop my social skills in the UK because of social exclusion). The difference with the UK was night and day. My experience of Spanish culture that year was like a spiritual rebirth for me. I knew that I had discovered something good and which I wanted to be a part of as well as an escape from the dreary and soul-killing wasteland that is British culture.

My strategy in light of my hatred of my native country and misfit status has thus far been one of near-total avoidance. I relocated to Spain (and also spent significant time in Latin America) as soon as I had the means to do so, adopted a new linguistic identity meaning speaking only Spanish for months at a time, and avoided British people except for a handful of family members and one close friend from childhood (this forum's Pixel--Dude). However, I soon realized that even if you don't identify with your own nationality others will still identify you as such. Because of this I have always felt the need to avoid Spaniards and others who draw too much attention to my unwanted British nationality, display Anglophilic tendencies or, heaven forbid, are L2 English speakers and attempt to speak with me in English just because of my (again unwanted) native Anglophone status. I immediately put such people on my real-life "foes list" (just like the one we have on this forum). All of this is actually necessary for my own mental wellbeing. Since I cannot relate to British culture at all, I don't even know how to "act British" and so I immediately feel uncomfortable and out of place whenever anybody associates me with that culture against my will.

Some people who know about my Hispanophilia and ethnic self-hatred tell me that I should learn to love my own nationality. But that is impossible. The soul simply has its objects of love and hatred and one cannot change what one loves and hates. I cannot pretend to love something which is alien to the nature of my soul and which even produces discomfort for me. I therefore continue with my strategy of avoidance and self-imposed segregation from British people and culture and understand that my grievances are with destiny itself!

With you it's different I guess, but I can't stand being around people who are like white, but dislike being white so badly they believe they can just become black by dressing black, talking black (mostly in a stereotypical way with the slang), and listening to the music, this is why I get pissy when I see white women trying to imitate black females, that shit is mockery to me and annoying too. When white girls got so heavily involved with black males and hip hop spread into white territory it's like they forgot who they are, where they came from and I connect much better with people who aren't trying to be something they'll never be just because they hate their own native culture.

If I went somewhere like South Korea and the people there were heavily into hip hop culture, I'd find them boring as shit and then I'd say "Well I could have stayed my ass in America if I wanted to be around people like this, this isn't why I came to Korea to be around negro obsessed people." I can understand if people don't feel connected to their own, I feel like that too. But at the same time I would never adopt someone else's culture as my own, it wouldn't feel right doing that. In the end I can just accept being a person that has no culture at all, it's harder that way if I went in this direction. But I'm American Indian too, so Native American culture to me is ten times better than negro shit that's got everyone acting like black obsessed faggots all over the country. Being black is like a goddamn cult, you're used by everyone. Democrats, Jews, and self hating whites.

[Lucas88]

I'm curious to see what your opinion about US culture is compared to British culture, because it doesn't seem that you see British and American culture similar to each other socially. And I notice that you are not as critical about US culture as you are about British culture. But I personally see a big similarity between both cultures when it comes to social isolation, since also they are both Anglo countries. In the same way you say that you don't connect with British people, I also don't connect with American people socially. I just notice that you are a little more fond of the US than the UK.

Spain is actually a great country culturally speaking and I can see why you are so fond of Spain. But what many people don't realize is that the culture from Spain is distinct from Latin American culture. The only countries in Latin America that are closest to Spain culturally and European culture in general are Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay.

But anyways you give good insights on different cultures, and it's nice to have a discussion with someone who knows the nuances of different cultures.

Thank you for your response, Jsport.

I've never actually experienced the US in the flesh and my interactions with Americans have been mostly online and also sporadic encounters with the occasional tourist while I've been travelling and so I'm probably not qualified to make a strong comparison. I can therefore only give my own basic impressions.

My impression of US culture as an outsider is that it is considerably more interesting than British culture but that at the same time US society is equally as messed up as its British counterpart or perhaps even more so in some ways. Culture-wise the US simply has more going on for it and for more than half a century has been at the forefront of cultural innovation with some of the best cinema, music genres, videogames, and other mediums of entertainment originating in the US. This is to be expected given the country's privileged status as the dominant world power and its consequent ability to attract investment and human talent. Even I love certain music genres which were pioneered in the US, a large chunk of American cinema, certain American videogame franchises, American professional wrestling (mainly from the 90s and 2000s), and the sport of MMA which was popularized the most in the US. America has an unparalleled level of creative contributions since the second half of the 20th century and this attracts the fascination of many foreigners. The UK on the other hand is a much duller and more boring country as far as culture creation goes (at least in the last half century). Because of my admiration for certain American cultural products and my perception of the US being a more dynamic and therefore more fun country, I look upon its culture with more fondness than I do for the UK, but at the same time I wouldn't dream of living there given what I know about US society.

I'm actually not very fond of any of the historically Protestant Anglo countries. They all have a similar culture of hypercompetitivity, antisociality, workaholism and narrow conformity which results in social alienation for many. I'm a little fonder of the US than the other Anglo countries because at least the US produces some interesting culture as I've explained above and I'm also partial to North American English which I see as a much more pleasant medium of communication than other varieties of English - especially British -, but as far as living and social life go, I think that all Anglo countries are quite rotten - especially when we compare them to Southern European countries such as Spain, Italy and Portugal.

As for social differences between British people and Americans, I actually find British people somewhat colder and more difficult than Americans. I'm not exactly sure why this is the case. I suspect that Americans have a more expressive nature and at least outwardly put on a friendly persona with outsiders like myself (even though genuine friendships are hard to come by in the US from what I've been told) whereas British people are naturally more reserved and don't even try to appear friendly most of the time. I personally find British people the most difficult nationality to interact with, even more so than Americans. In my experience, Continental Europeans (most European nationalities) are much easier to talk to.

Spanish culture is different from Latin American culture. That's true. I actually like them both but for different reasons. Spain is peaceful modern society situated along the coast of the Mediterranean sea and with a relaxed pace of life, a vibrant and inclusive social culture and a high level of cultural and intellectual sophistication. Latin American countries are wild, passionate, intoxicating, Dionysian, and full of the wildest fun. I'm particularly fond of Mexico, Colombia and Brazil even though I believe that every Latin American country has its own unique charm. Paraguay is actually the only Latin American country that I know next to nothing about. All I know about Paraguay is that the capital is Asunción and that the country is largely bilingual in Spanish and Guarani. I had no idea that the country was culturally similar to Argentina and Uruguay which are both overwhelmingly European in terms of culture and ethnic composition.