My friend visited the twin towers years ago, in his group they were asked what if a plane hit them, their answer was it was impossible for the towers to fall down, due to the structure.
How does anyone account for the WTC that fell down which wasn't hit by a plane? noise? tremmors? but nothing else went down?
Winston! Your man Jesse Ventura is on CNN - 9/11 conspiracy
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Camp38
- Freshman Poster
- Posts: 34
- Joined: September 27th, 2011, 8:08 pm
- Location: Utrecht/Netherlands
Conspiracy fact is harder to deal with than conspiracy theory, because it shows us that something is fundamentally wrong with a political system whose central goal is the accumulation of wealth and power for the very few. As one example, it’s a matter of public record that a number of wars have been waged and insurrections suppressed with the help of the CIA for the purpose of increasing profits or protecting markets for the wealthy. Most of the CIA’s covert actions have been conspiracies by definition. For example, a Contra-era CIA training manual, “Psychological Operations in Guerilla Warfare,†reads: “It is possible to neutralize carefully selected and planned targets, such as court judges, mesta judges, police and state security officials, CDS chiefs, etc. For psychological purposes it is necessary to take extreme precautions . . . The mission to replace the individual should be followed by: Extensive explanation within the population affected of the reason why it was necessary for the good of the people.†(David McGowan, “Derailing Democracy: The America The Media Don’t Want You To See,†)
An earlier CIA training manual, “A Study of Assassinations,†reads: “No assassination instruction should ever be written or recorded . . . The simplest local tools are often the most efficient means of assassination . . . anything hard, heavy and handy will suffice . . . The most efficient accident . . . is a fall of 75 feet or more onto a hard surface . . . Falls before trains and subway cars are usually effective, but require exact timing . . . assassinations can seldom be employed with a clear conscience. Persons who are morally squeamish should not attempt it.†(McGowan, “Derailing Democracy.â€)
In his 1995 book, “The Twilight Of Democracy,†former CIA political analyst Patrick E. Kennon argues that democracy is a failure, and that only well-trained technocrats are qualified to run the country. He claims that voters and our elected officials are too ignorant to question bureaucratic experts or contribute to decision-making. The problem is, the technocrats often give us the kinds of anti-ethics “solutions†recommended in the above CIA training manual excerpts. Today we have a president who was appointed instead of democratically elected. His team of well-trained technocrats run the country on behalf of the wealthiest 1 percent, with little regard for the other 99 percent of us. This is not a result of any one aberrant conspiracy, but is the rational outcome of a political system that exists to protect the wealth and power of the few at the expense of the many.
What we are living with today is the result of money-and-power run amok. It’s a political system that has gradually inched away from its stated purpose of government instituted “of, by and for the people,†toward a system aimed at fleecing the people, with no annoying “moral squeamishness†to interfere. There have been many actual conspiracies along the road from the former system to the latter.
An earlier CIA training manual, “A Study of Assassinations,†reads: “No assassination instruction should ever be written or recorded . . . The simplest local tools are often the most efficient means of assassination . . . anything hard, heavy and handy will suffice . . . The most efficient accident . . . is a fall of 75 feet or more onto a hard surface . . . Falls before trains and subway cars are usually effective, but require exact timing . . . assassinations can seldom be employed with a clear conscience. Persons who are morally squeamish should not attempt it.†(McGowan, “Derailing Democracy.â€)
In his 1995 book, “The Twilight Of Democracy,†former CIA political analyst Patrick E. Kennon argues that democracy is a failure, and that only well-trained technocrats are qualified to run the country. He claims that voters and our elected officials are too ignorant to question bureaucratic experts or contribute to decision-making. The problem is, the technocrats often give us the kinds of anti-ethics “solutions†recommended in the above CIA training manual excerpts. Today we have a president who was appointed instead of democratically elected. His team of well-trained technocrats run the country on behalf of the wealthiest 1 percent, with little regard for the other 99 percent of us. This is not a result of any one aberrant conspiracy, but is the rational outcome of a political system that exists to protect the wealth and power of the few at the expense of the many.
What we are living with today is the result of money-and-power run amok. It’s a political system that has gradually inched away from its stated purpose of government instituted “of, by and for the people,†toward a system aimed at fleecing the people, with no annoying “moral squeamishness†to interfere. There have been many actual conspiracies along the road from the former system to the latter.
Steve,
See this other thread about 9/11 that we already posted a lot of evidence in.
viewtopic.php?t=13601
Also, look at these photos below and tell me if this scene looks like an area where a 757 crashed into. These are the initial photos immediately after the crash. Forget those photos of small debris on the floor, which an amateur could have photoshopped, that conspiracy debunkers like to point to as proof. These photos that capture the scene immediately after the crash are a lot more indicative and speak LOUDER than anything else.
See this other thread about 9/11 that we already posted a lot of evidence in.
viewtopic.php?t=13601
Also, look at these photos below and tell me if this scene looks like an area where a 757 crashed into. These are the initial photos immediately after the crash. Forget those photos of small debris on the floor, which an amateur could have photoshopped, that conspiracy debunkers like to point to as proof. These photos that capture the scene immediately after the crash are a lot more indicative and speak LOUDER than anything else.
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Steve,
Regarding those conspiracy debunkers you have so much faith in, here is a list of LIES they've told in the past up til now. Are you sure you want to put your faith in such liars?
Lies about the JFK assassination:
- They claim that average marksman have been able to replicate Lee Harvey Oswald's feat with no problem. That's a lie. No one has been able to duplicate it exactly, especially the part where you shoot the head from behind and it moves back toward you, as in the Zapruder film. It's also very hard to hit a head from that far away, for even the best marksman.
- They claim that the 50+ witnesses who heard shots coming from the grassy knoll don't exist, that only one or two reported that, and neither of them were credible.
- They claim that JFK's head moved backward in the Zapruder film because when you shoot objects, the force of the bullet causes a ricochet and makes the object move toward you rather than away from you. Total lie and goes against basic common sense. Any rifleman will tell you that's not true.
The above claims were made by Gerald Posner in his book "Case Closed". He is a conspiracy debunker who will lie to defend the official version of everything. He is also an attorney.
* Ask yourself this: If JFK had lived, he would have pulled out of Vietnam and that war would never have happened, and 60,000 Americans would not have been killed there. It's well documented that he was planning to withdraw from Vietnam. Now, do you really think one lone nut, with NO motive or reason to kill JFK at all, caused the Vietnam War to happen, and that if he hadn't shot JFK for no reason, that the Vietnam War would have been prevented? Think about it.
Lies about 9/11:
- They claim that at 30,000 feet in the air in an airline, you have a 50/50 chance of making a call on your cell phone. (Popular Mechanics made this claim) That's a total lie. Above 4000 feet, cell phone calls start to drop off, and above 8000 feet, there is no signal at all, period. So 30,000 feet would be totally impossible. Try turning on your phone during flight and you will see that these debunkers LIED to you.
- They claim that the WTC was hollow inside due to the claim by the 9/11 Commission. However, that is not true since the actual blueprints of the WTC show 47 steel core columns inside the WTC, not a hollow shaft. So the 9/11 Commission lied and so did the debunkers. Anyone who worked there will tell you that too.
- They claim that you can see the plane that hit the Pentagon in that clip from the security camera. But anyone can see it and see that you can't see any plane. Another obvious and desperate lie. See this dumb lie made by a debunker here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBHi9CbrNf4
So you see, these people are pathological liars. And you put your faith in them?! Isn't that foolish?
Challenge to you: Go look at the debunker sites again. You will see that they have NO EXPLANATION for the WTC and Building 7 collapsing at free fall speed with zero resistance. They only claim that explosives weren't used, but they don't even prove that. They just nitpick technicalities, but DO NOT offer any explanation that fits all the data or facts. Go to their site and you will see.
In fact, go to all the debunker sites and if you can find me even ONE explanation for the WTC collapse and Building 7 that fits with all the data, then I will admit that you win. Go ahead and try it, and you will see that they totally DO NOT have an explanation that fits the data.
Regarding those conspiracy debunkers you have so much faith in, here is a list of LIES they've told in the past up til now. Are you sure you want to put your faith in such liars?
Lies about the JFK assassination:
- They claim that average marksman have been able to replicate Lee Harvey Oswald's feat with no problem. That's a lie. No one has been able to duplicate it exactly, especially the part where you shoot the head from behind and it moves back toward you, as in the Zapruder film. It's also very hard to hit a head from that far away, for even the best marksman.
- They claim that the 50+ witnesses who heard shots coming from the grassy knoll don't exist, that only one or two reported that, and neither of them were credible.
- They claim that JFK's head moved backward in the Zapruder film because when you shoot objects, the force of the bullet causes a ricochet and makes the object move toward you rather than away from you. Total lie and goes against basic common sense. Any rifleman will tell you that's not true.
The above claims were made by Gerald Posner in his book "Case Closed". He is a conspiracy debunker who will lie to defend the official version of everything. He is also an attorney.
* Ask yourself this: If JFK had lived, he would have pulled out of Vietnam and that war would never have happened, and 60,000 Americans would not have been killed there. It's well documented that he was planning to withdraw from Vietnam. Now, do you really think one lone nut, with NO motive or reason to kill JFK at all, caused the Vietnam War to happen, and that if he hadn't shot JFK for no reason, that the Vietnam War would have been prevented? Think about it.
Lies about 9/11:
- They claim that at 30,000 feet in the air in an airline, you have a 50/50 chance of making a call on your cell phone. (Popular Mechanics made this claim) That's a total lie. Above 4000 feet, cell phone calls start to drop off, and above 8000 feet, there is no signal at all, period. So 30,000 feet would be totally impossible. Try turning on your phone during flight and you will see that these debunkers LIED to you.
- They claim that the WTC was hollow inside due to the claim by the 9/11 Commission. However, that is not true since the actual blueprints of the WTC show 47 steel core columns inside the WTC, not a hollow shaft. So the 9/11 Commission lied and so did the debunkers. Anyone who worked there will tell you that too.
- They claim that you can see the plane that hit the Pentagon in that clip from the security camera. But anyone can see it and see that you can't see any plane. Another obvious and desperate lie. See this dumb lie made by a debunker here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBHi9CbrNf4
So you see, these people are pathological liars. And you put your faith in them?! Isn't that foolish?
Challenge to you: Go look at the debunker sites again. You will see that they have NO EXPLANATION for the WTC and Building 7 collapsing at free fall speed with zero resistance. They only claim that explosives weren't used, but they don't even prove that. They just nitpick technicalities, but DO NOT offer any explanation that fits all the data or facts. Go to their site and you will see.
In fact, go to all the debunker sites and if you can find me even ONE explanation for the WTC collapse and Building 7 that fits with all the data, then I will admit that you win. Go ahead and try it, and you will see that they totally DO NOT have an explanation that fits the data.
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
Conspiracy theorists are like people who believe in a sky fairy. They feel powerless in the world and in order to make some sense of their own insignificance and powerlessness they invent a world where some faceless monolith is in control of the everyday workings of the world. Controlling the minutiae. They invent paranoid scenarios of powerful people sitting in some sort of control room inventing new and violent ways to end sections of humanity. It is as absurd as the belief that some god created you and that he sits on a fluffy white cloud playing chess with your life. It is niaive and childish. The truth is that people are not that smart and not that organised and not that willing to follow. The idiots on this planet do not need any help in getting wars started or destroying life or even destroying the planet. Selfishness abounds amongst human beings. Shit happens. It always has. It always will. Get on with it.
Even if that were true, that doesn't change the fact that many conspiracies do exist and that government and media lies and are controlled by the same people, etc. It's not a stretch to believe that powerful people will act in their own interest. Also, the official version of many events have proven to be a lie. Examples: JFK assassination, 9/11, Gulf of Tonkin Incident, etc. Government and media do lie. Don't deny that. I gave many examples above. Also, psychological reasons and evidence are two different things. Just because you can point out some psychological motivations for conspiracies, doesn't erase the mass amount of evidence that supports them.ben dover wrote:Conspiracy theorists are like people who believe in a sky fairy. They feel powerless in the world and in order to make some sense of their own insignificance and powerlessness they invent a world where some faceless monolith is in control of the everyday workings of the world. Controlling the minutiae. They invent paranoid scenarios of powerful people sitting in some sort of control room inventing new and violent ways to end sections of humanity. It is as absurd as the belief that some god created you and that he sits on a fluffy white cloud playing chess with your life. It is niaive and childish. The truth is that people are not that smart and not that organised and not that willing to follow. The idiots on this planet do not need any help in getting wars started or destroying life or even destroying the planet. Selfishness abounds amongst human beings. sh** happens. It always has. It always will. Get on with it.
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and SE Asia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
I would never say that the dog isn't wagging the tail in certain circumstances and that certain assassinations of high ranking officials were not inside jobs. This has been happening forever. The King must be brought down for whatever purpose. Greed. Money or The Greater Good. But conspiracy theory wooers tend to fall into the trap of believing that every decision made and every incident that occurs is somehow controlled by a malevolent force that worships the debil. There you go. Belief in a god or the devil or any other supernatural malevolent being is also ludicrous. This ridiculous belief system such as all lawyers take oath with the illuminati or all jews or muslims or even feminists are inherently evil and that certain people are involved in some sort of conspiracy against the rest of the population is delusional and a waste of time. Time that could be better spent studying what is real. Pure mathematics. The environment. Anatomy. Things that really matter. If you believe all that conspiracy shit then you must be looking sideways at your neighbours, your work colleagues, everybody at the supermarket. It's absurd. And no Winston you have not proved - in fact nobody has proved that 9/11 was an inside job. I've noticed that conspiracy theory nutters don't actually have any qualifications themselves. They read what other nutters have written on the webz and they repeat it. This does not prove anything. They take the bits that suit their skewed vision of the world because they are usually powerless unsuccessful ineffectual human beings who refuse to take responsibility for their own shortcomings. Psychologically it's easier to blame "the system" or somebody elses race, or religion or skin colour or sexual orientation or gender rather than recognise that every shitty thing that came into their world they brought there themselves via their own personality flaw. As Steve said, every conspiracy theory on 9/11 has been debunked logically.
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ChosenTraveler
- Freshman Poster
- Posts: 106
- Joined: September 27th, 2012, 3:14 pm
We're still examining this? Obviously 9/11 was an inside job but that's beside the point. This is a complex chess game, and the problem with citizens is that once they realize they've been moved on, the pieces have already switched around.
I know, Jesse Ventura says all the right things in regards to 9/11, but he is controlled opposition. Authentic truth tellers/ prophets don't live( Serge Monast,Bill Cooper, Dr. Khalid Muhammad), are recent examples.
I know, Jesse Ventura says all the right things in regards to 9/11, but he is controlled opposition. Authentic truth tellers/ prophets don't live( Serge Monast,Bill Cooper, Dr. Khalid Muhammad), are recent examples.
"Never forget that intelligence rules the world and ignorance carries the burden."- Marcus Garvey
http://exiledpharaoh.blogspot.com
http://exiledpharaoh.blogspot.com
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DevilsAdvocate
- Freshman Poster
- Posts: 292
- Joined: July 23rd, 2012, 2:41 pm
If you guys knew the level and depth to what extent you live within the Matrix you would go insane.
In the movie the people were laying in a pod of goo, this is an allegory for what you are in now, a pod of information and concepts which leads to a life of stupidity and ignorance, filled with nothing but information that is a lie to begin with.
Your whole entire life is an illusion, everything you believe to be true is a lie, given to you by Jews, who have 100% control over your mind on a quantum level about every subject there is under the sun.
Name it?
You believe we went to the moon? Wrong....
You believe Iran is the enemy? Wrong...
You believe Russia the enemy? Wrong....
You believe Obama was elected the President? Wrong....
You believe there was a Japan Nuclear Crisis? Wrong...
You believe the USA is in debt? Wrong...
You believe the President of the USA makes any decisions? Wrong....
You believe in evolution? Wrong...
I could go on and on without end....
If you knew to the extent of how much your life has been thrown down the drain into a land of stupidity you would understand why Hitler tried to kill every Jew he could, and why that was the Final Solution to the problem of the Jews, and why every country in Europe has kicked the Jews out many times.
The Jews have setup the Matrix for the world....
In the movie the people were laying in a pod of goo, this is an allegory for what you are in now, a pod of information and concepts which leads to a life of stupidity and ignorance, filled with nothing but information that is a lie to begin with.
Your whole entire life is an illusion, everything you believe to be true is a lie, given to you by Jews, who have 100% control over your mind on a quantum level about every subject there is under the sun.
Name it?
You believe we went to the moon? Wrong....
You believe Iran is the enemy? Wrong...
You believe Russia the enemy? Wrong....
You believe Obama was elected the President? Wrong....
You believe there was a Japan Nuclear Crisis? Wrong...
You believe the USA is in debt? Wrong...
You believe the President of the USA makes any decisions? Wrong....
You believe in evolution? Wrong...
I could go on and on without end....
If you knew to the extent of how much your life has been thrown down the drain into a land of stupidity you would understand why Hitler tried to kill every Jew he could, and why that was the Final Solution to the problem of the Jews, and why every country in Europe has kicked the Jews out many times.
The Jews have setup the Matrix for the world....
By the hammer of Thor. Sometimes it's like a f***ing asylum in here. When's that grey lizard scheduled to turn up again? I hope you've brought enough tinfoil hats for everyone.DevilsAdvocate wrote:If you guys knew the level and depth to what extent you live within the Matrix you would go insane.
In the movie the people were laying in a pod of goo, this is an allegory for what you are in now, a pod of information and concepts which leads to a life of stupidity and ignorance, filled with nothing but information that is a lie to begin with.
Your whole entire life is an illusion, everything you believe to be true is a lie, given to you by Jews, who have 100% control over your mind on a quantum level about every subject there is under the sun.
Name it?
You believe we went to the moon? Wrong....
You believe Iran is the enemy? Wrong...
You believe Russia the enemy? Wrong....
You believe Obama was elected the President? Wrong....
You believe there was a Japan Nuclear Crisis? Wrong...
You believe the USA is in debt? Wrong...
You believe the President of the USA makes any decisions? Wrong....
You believe in evolution? Wrong...
I could go on and on without end....
If you knew to the extent of how much your life has been thrown down the drain into a land of stupidity you would understand why Hitler tried to kill every Jew he could, and why that was the Final Solution to the problem of the Jews, and why every country in Europe has kicked the Jews out many times.
The Jews have setup the Matrix for the world....
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HenryGeorge
- Freshman Poster
- Posts: 218
- Joined: June 29th, 2012, 11:48 pm
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