Deep Observations by Mitchell and Winston about US Society

[Jester]

Jester,
I don't understand your argument. How can the Indians not be the good guys? The Americans STOLE their lands and drove them off. What do you expect them to do?

Clearly the Indians were the victims and were wiped out and done wrong to. How can you debate that?

Also, how did the Native American holocaust happen exactly? I mean, I can't imagine armies of God fearing white Christians lining up millions of Indians to shoot and exterminate like Nazis. There were no Indian concentration camps. So how were millions wiped out exactly?

Could the Native American holocaust also be an exaggerated hoax?

What happened to the Indians was tragic, but it was not some deliberate genocide. They fought a sporadic, intermittent race war, and they generally lost.

Their policy of kidnapping women and children, sometimes toruring them and killing them, was a real bad strategy. Also their habits of bushwhacking and stealing, even when there was a truce. White Americans were both moral, and moralistic (Calvinist etc) with little patience for thievery etc.

Their numbers declined for a while, but they are still around. They were not "killed off". Numbers decline when a race or civilization goes into despair and depression. Look at us now, for example, and all the White countries, plus Japan.

There were only like 2 million Indians in all the 48 states when Whites arrived. They were not numerous like in Mexico or Peru. Why? Because they were uncivilized, backward savages. They lived without agriculture or technology. Or mercy. They fought merciless wars of ethnic cleansing among each other, as late as the late 1700's in the Midwest.

What about the Spaniards, were they less savage or cruel than Anglo Whites. Hell no. Spaniards had learned severity from both Romans and Moors. They were severe.

What the Spaniards did BETTER was conversion. The Catholic church was FAR more successful than Protestants in converting Indians to Christianity, preventing them from becoming a pestilential nuisance.

In the North, Indians that converted successfully and learned to live in peace with their (better-armed) neighbors were able to stay in place in some cases, without deportation. Large numbers exist in North Carolina today, for example. And lots of Indians intermarried. There are a LOT of Southerners, for example, both White and Black, who proudly brag about Indian blood.

Re stealing land, see my comments above. They never OWNED much land. They generally lived nomadically, using huge areas for hunting grounds, viewing other humans (including other Indians) as competitors. If we all lived that way, the human race would be pretty tiny. And very backward.

Nowadays the PTB do their best to tell half-truths, to shame the Whites, and give others a chip on their shoulder. Both effects are intended as control mechanisms.

If I have not-so-White kids in the future (quite possible), I'll teach them to be proud of their ancestors, yes. I will also tell them that technology, art, music, civilization, etc. are the common heritage of mankind. God, not man, created the laws of physics and metaphysics. Newton, Einstein et al. didn't "invent" laws of physics, they just discovered them first. Whites and Jews don't OWN physics. Franklin discovered electricity, but that doesn't mean that Quakers now OWN electricity, or that others can't make discoveries. Maybe Franklin was descended from barbaric Anglo-Saxon marauders, who smelled foul and never bathed. So? Do you sit around lamenting the fact that some of your ancestors were uncivilized - or do you DO something about it?

Celebrate virtue and accomplishment where you find them. And go and do likewise.

[Winston]

Jester,
How do you know so much about Indians? I thought they were supposed to be spiritual and at one with nature. The New Age movement certainly glorifies them that way.

Question to all:

Me and Mitchell want to record our conversations to put up as podcasts. How do we do that? What's the easiest way to record a conversation on the phone as an audio mp3 file?

[Jackal]

All perceptions are mediated and interpreted by the mind. Two people can have very different opinions about the same thing which they see. This is nothing new.

Why do we relate to some people automatically and not others? I think the Buddhist answer is that we relate to people whom we share group karma with (people who had similar experiences in past lives as we did). And we relate less well to those who don't.

For example, the people who feel really comfortable in America may have lived in America during many of their past lives, whereas most of us here probably lived in other countries in our past lives because we didn't fit in at all in America.

[Teal Lantern]

... There are a LOT of Southerners, for example, both White and Black, who proudly brag about Indian blood. ...

Some only THINK they have Indian ancestry.
At some point in the past, saying your "2nd-great-grandmother was xyz Indian" was a more socially palatable explanation for being extra light (or dark) than saying your "3rd-great-grandmother was black and your 3rd great-grandfather was Scots-Irish".

In many families, this "Indian" story was passed down so long that the truth was forgotten and no one questions it.

People like to tell themselves there wasn't much mixing going on "back then", but never consider that there had to be, in order for there to be laws created BARRING it.
Look into the origin of the marriage license requirement, in the USSA.

[mguy]

I complained to a friend that I get a little crazier when I go happierabroad.com

There might be people here who are sick in the head, and this includes Winston, and this includes even me. Who is to say?

at least in Winston case, he is generating income, but the fact that he still lives with his parents spells a pathology for me. Will he be able to have a functional life without outside support? But at the same time he has enough income so he can actually "survive" for himself and even puts his foot down on this forum on certain things so that's a plus with my sanity meter.

in my case, I go to this site bc of the disproportionate AW/WM couples I see in the real world (+ free time), and you cannot possibly convince me at this point that it is not an symptom of an underlying theme that I do not like in this society. But in the end -- I'm second guessing myself regarding the importance of this observation and the need for expatriation. Do I like USA? YES. Do I like the dating life? I am satisfied but it could be better. Do I want to stay? Not really.. (I kinda want adventure)

You can rationalize anything. Especially the smart guys. I can debunk the debunker the debunkee while debunking myself if I choose to! I however choose my battles.

Where is your mind? Whooooooooooopeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Winston]

If anyone is interested, Mitchell just did an interview with Bill Greathouse of TFL. It's posted on his YouTube channel. Here it is:



Also, if you didn't hear Mitchell's last interview with Steve Hoca yet, here it is as well:

http://stevehoca.com/roller-steve-show- ... 5-2012.mp3

[Winston]

I complained to a friend that I get a little crazier when I go happierabroad.com

There might be people here who are sick in the head, and this includes Winston, and this includes even me. Who is to say?

at least in Winston case, he is generating income, but the fact that he still lives with his parents spells a pathology for me. Will he be able to have a functional life without outside support? But at the same time he has enough income so he can actually "survive" for himself and even puts his foot down on this forum on certain things so that's a plus with my sanity meter.

Sick in the head? It depends on what standards you are using. As long as I am honest and true and genuine, what does it matter if I'm seen as crazy? At least my points are true, logical, coherent and accurate. And I don't BS. So how am I crazy?

"When the world goes mad, one must accept madness as sanity; since sanity is, in the last analysis, nothing but the madness on which the whole world happens to agree." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950), British playwright

I don't understand what the hang up is about with living with your parents? Why are you required to move out? There's no logic in it. It's just a religion. Tons of people in every neighborhood live with their parents, even if they are adults in their 30's and 40's. It's just never talked about. Most likely, a lot of the people in this forum live with their parents too, though they won't bring it up.

In Asia, there is no negative stigma against living with parents. You don't have to move out until you get married and have a family of your own.

Besides, why should I pay for a hotel or apartment and waste money if I don't have to? Why should I waste so much money like that just so I can look like I'm not living with my parents? It doesn't make sense.

Plus, I am not settling long term anywhere right now. So why would I want to get an apartment if I'm not committed to stay?

Also, I told you many times already: I am just VISITING HERE. VISITING HERE! How many f***ing times do I have to say that? Sheesh. Are you deaf or something?

When Rock visits his parents in the US, is he supposed to rent an apartment near them too, just so he doesn't look like he's living with his parents? lol

If you are not settled down somewhere, there's no need to get an apartment and waste money on rent. Think about it. You're not being logical or looking at things practically. Far better to save your money for travel.

How come some of you guys are so dense sometimes? Am I the only one who sees the big picture and is rational?

Finally, check out this TV series from the 60's called "The Big Valley". In it, three strong handsome highly functioning moralistic adult brothers live with their mother and sister on a ranch. Why don't they have to move out? Why should they? They were a happy functioning family that ran a profitable ranch.

Big Valley Tribute

[Winston]

I talked to Mitchell yesterday on the phone. He made an interesting observation which I've always felt was true. He said that,

"In America, dumbness is nurtured in that the dumber you are, the EASIER it is for you to get along with people."

So true huh? I've always got the feeling that "dumb is cool" in America and people will accept you more as normal if you are dumb than if you are a deep thinker or freethinker.

[Halwick]

I just talked to Mitchell again. He told me something interesting. He said that the real decline of American culture actually begin in the early 1980's. You see, in the 1970's, if you were creative and unique, or an explorer type, you were considered cool. People admired you. The culture during that era was more free-spirited. (Mitchell grew up in the 70's, so he knew what it was like back then)

It was during the Reaganomic era of the 80's, that that all changed. Life became all about materialistic goals, achievement and competition. People became more shallow, competitive, materialistic, greedy and socially cliquish as well. Movies like "Wall Street (1987)" epitomized this.

I think this is true. Even though the 80's are considered "the good old days" in terms of music and TV shows, I don't remember it as being much friendlier than today. People still seemed kind of hostile, shallow, cliquish, exclusive, fake and not down to earth. I definitely wasn't happy back then. I did not feel accepted or liked. And I felt persecuted even though I did nothing wrong. (Someone once told me that everyone he knew who grew up in the 80's ended up having issues and baggage in life)

And the suburbs were isolating to the point of making me insane since there was no internet to preoccupy me during all my free time, so I had nothing to do, and was always lonely and bored and wishing I was somewhere else, or out having fun with people.

In fact, the last time I remember that people seemed normal in America was 1982-3. After that, the culture and values in America went downhill into materialism and greed to the extreme. From 1984 on, people seemed very mean. I don't know if that was because I moved to Fremont, CA, or because times had changed, or both.

Any of you notice this too?

I suppose every generation says the succeeding generation and thereafter marks the decline. You and Mitchell only know the world since the 1970s / 1980s and thus your perspective. I don't disagree with you, but what you described is the same what I've seen.....only much earlier.

I know people, including my parents, who were adults during the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s and they all agree the decline and breakdown of U.S. society began during the late-1960s with the advent of the hippie culture and acid rock, resulting in relaxed moral standards, acceptance and use of recreational narcotics, free sex, civil disobedience, disrespect of law & order/ authority, etc.. They also agree that people since the 1960s are more selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed, distrustful, anti-social, entitled, greedy, quick to resort to lawsuits and violence.

I myself grew up in the early 1960s and witnessed the transition during the late 1960s / early 1970s from moral stable society (in my opinion) to a cynical and anti-establishment society. By the late-1970s, this attitude was firmly entrenched in the American conscious and society.

Interestingly enough, I've talked to people from other countries who were adults during the same pre-1960s era, and they had similar comments and witnessed the same social breakdown in their countries during the late 1960s as well.

[Halwick]

Mitchell also said that the 1950's, according to his mom, were not the happy wholesome times that people today envision.

He said that yes, family values were very strong back then, and jobs were stable in that when you got a job it was for life, and hard work was rewarded. However, the society and culture was very repressive, narrow and conformist. If you had nonconformist views or were seen as weird, you could be thrown into a mental institution. People were also very religious and patriotic and racist. They didn't question government or religion or think for themselves. Also, although people put up a facade of happiness on the outside, what happened behind closed doors was another matter.

That may be true, but I still think that the 1950's was a kinder wholesome era, because people who grew up during that decade are much more kind, wholesome, gentle and have strong traditional values. This includes my parents too, who still have the personalities of families from the 50's, kind of like the parents depicted in the 50's TV show "Leave it to Beaver".

However, what I don't get is why, if America was more wild and happy in the 1920's and 1930's, how did it all of a sudden become repressive, narrow, rigid and conformist in the 1950's?

Your perception of a "wild and happy" 1920s and 1930's America is based on Hollywood and popular romance literature, which did not represent the norm. Those "narrow, rigid and conformist" attitudes were very much the norm back then. You had segregation among the races. People courted one another for a lengthy time before getting married. Divorce and children out of wedlock were shameful. The average person worked hard and were conscious of morality and respectful of law & order, patriotism was very important.

If you want to go back even further, consider the Victorian Age and how narrow, rigid and conformist those times were, even by 1920's standards.

[Winston]

I was talking to my friend Mitchell earlier today, who also has a deep soul like me. We both noticed something deep and sad in America:

Have you noticed that if you have a romantic and deep soul in America, you are out of place, out of date, and invalidated? It's really weird. Everyone else seems soulless, hollow and zombie-like with no feeling. (It's also hard to be romantic when women see you as asexual and not in their league.)

Also, have you noticed that when you walk into a store and the staff says "hello" or "how are you doing?" it sounds really fake and forced. There's no true feeling or intention in it.

It's so invalidating that it makes you feel like you want to get away from people and withdraw. Authentic people must suffer a lot internally in America from feeling so out of place. And romantic men too, especially.

Relationships in America also lack passion. It's all about wham bam thank you maam.

Have any of you noticed these things?

[Winston]

I suppose every generation says the succeeding generation and thereafter marks the decline. You and Mitchell only know the world since the 1970s / 1980s and thus your perspective. I don't disagree with you, but what you described is the same what I've seen.....only much earlier.

I know people, including my parents, who were adults during the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s and they all agree the decline and breakdown of U.S. society began during the late-1960s with the advent of the hippie culture and acid rock, resulting in relaxed moral standards, acceptance and use of recreational narcotics, free sex, civil disobedience, disrespect of law & order/ authority, etc.. They also agree that people since the 1960s are more selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed, distrustful, anti-social, entitled, greedy, quick to resort to lawsuits and violence.

I myself grew up in the early 1960s and witnessed the transition during the late 1960s / early 1970s from moral stable society (in my opinion) to a cynical and anti-establishment society. By the late-1970s, this attitude was firmly entrenched in the American conscious and society.

Interestingly enough, I've talked to people from other countries who were adults during the same pre-1960s era, and they had similar comments and witnessed the same social breakdown in their countries during the late 1960s as well.

Wow you grew up during the 60's? People looked so innocent back then. Did you notice that? Or is that only on TV?

Did you ever watch shows like Bewitched or The Big Valley? They had a quality that shows today don't have.

Did the hippie culture of the 60's exist everywhere, or only if you belonged to certain groups?

So if people went anti-establishment, then I guess we are anti-anti-establishment right? lol

Nothing wrong with counter culture. But why did people rebel at that time when the economy was doing great and America had values and people were friendly?

Also, what caused Americans to become soulless and zombie-like? It's like the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" already happened. And what caused them to be disconnected and paranoid? How come in big cities, everyone looks angry and assholish? How did Americans come to ignore their neighbors?

What did you think of the 70's? Didn't people look wholesome and natural? Did America feel empty, meaningless and depressing back then too? In the movie "Taxi Driver" it seemed like it, but in TV shows of the 70's it did not.

[starchild5]

We blame White Americans too much. The wipe out of native Americans were done by freemasons, secret societies plus Aliens using their advance technology at the same time, they created problems in Europe for suffering white people to flee but closed all doors except for America...with many more free ships, discounted ship tickets to America than say Asia or Africa.

This was all planned....No white people we see around us in America are responsible for what happened to Native Americans..They are the victim as were the natives but this EVIL is soo cunning, it makes you feel bad for the sin he committed and calls it Karma.

In India we have this all the time as we created Karma itself...The biggest con on humanity.

White people are unusually been made guilty of the things they did not do PLUS black slavery...while only the elites kept slaves not ordinary Americans they were building rail roads and working on farms and raising cattle...and the elites brought them to America not a common white guy in Europe...

I do not understand, even with 1 million evidence all around us, why are we still fighting each other ....common...seriously...The entire human race is being raped male or female black or white or Asian or latino...f**cked on both ends....ohhhh...The misery we are going through and not for one or two days or years but for a million year now....

I Just cry now a days hours on end, nothing much to do....drink and cry ....STOP BLAMING HUMAN RACE>>>

Wait for the Evolutionary Stage to come and hope we do not skip it again...

We pretty much know in truth circles this month alone many 1000s will be butchered somewhere in the world on situations created by Evil but he makes sure he puts the blame back to us, so we go in circles and DO NOT FIGHT BACK THE EVIL...

People need to really really really understand that Aliens are ruling this planet on a lower level than AIs etc, manipulating us...Bad guys are evil but NOT STUPIDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD....They are very very smart...

FORGIVE humanity for they never committed any sin

[Winston]

Hi all,
I just did a podcast interview with Mitchell. We had a great 2 hour discussion about the degradation of American culture and people. Here is the link to listen to it.

http://www.happierabroad.com/podcasts/M ... inston.mp3

[Winston]

Btw i talked to my Jewish friend Mitchell earlier who is an aspie. I asked him:

How come the average American doesnt take a freewheeling road trip around America the way i did, or like in the movie "easy rider" with peter fonda and jack nicholson? America has a lot of beautiful nature and landscapes and vistas and scenery and national parks and hiking trails. Why stay in the boring US suburbs and go to Walmart? Why not take a road trip and see all the beauty in rural america? And say "f**k it" to their job? How come the average American doesnt do that? When they take vacations its always some lame package tour to Disneyland or Las Vegas. They never take a leisurely freewheeling road trip around the country. Why? I guess some retired couples do travel around america in an RV. But how come the average American doesnt do that?

Furthermore the average American has to plan every detail of their vacation in advance, as though it were a military operation. Lol. Why not freewheel it?

Mitchell replied, "Well like u said most Americans have no intellectual curiosity to do something like that."