Ethics & Values

[Tsar]

I know you and Tsar hate labor and working…

I don't hate working. I hate working when it's a bad deal. I also hate my work enriching other people if I am not rewarded for my work.

Modern work is mostly pointless and it's feudalism. Why work if there is no real reward?

People can either work to maintain something or build something.

Working with little or no rewards is effectively slavery. That's what most modern workers are in a country like the United States but it's often the case everywhere.

When money is fiat currency, it redistributes all the wealth to the top.

[Outcast9428]

@Cornfed

Depends on what you call welfare.

@Tsar

Yes and Rome had legal, institutional slavery where you could be executed for not obeying your master. Even if you weren’t officially a slave, all of the work you did was to enrich the top 1%. You had no choice, if you did not work you died.

[Tsar]

@Tsar

Yes and Rome had legal, institutional slavery where you could be executed for not obeying your master. Even if you weren’t officially a slave, all of the work you did was to enrich the top 1%. You had no choice, if you did not work you died.

Yes, but that was in ancient times.

In many cases, people in 2022 are more slaves than the slaves in ancient times.

The monetary system in 2022 is designed to be negative. It's created out of nothing, backed my nothing, and it's a unit of debt. People are saving units of debt, not units of something with real value.

People in 2022 need to effectively beg for a job. They also need to be selected. That's effectively lower than slave. Begging to work is unnatural. People should either get whatever work they're suited for or if not, given free money because their work isn't needed.

A slave to a king in a palace is probably going to be clean and better treated than most commoners.

Also, slaves had value. Theoretically, they must be fed, clothed, cared for, and kept in a condition to work. The slaves were their property and property has a value.

[Outcast9428]

In many cases, people in 2022 are more slaves than the slaves in ancient times.

No they aren’t.

Modern people are whiny as f**k. They feel shockingly entitled to not show up to work, not do their jobs, show up late, or leave work in the middle of their shift. If you did that as a Roman slave you’d be beaten within a half an inch of your life. In the modern workforce we can’t even get our boss to agree to punish them in any way.

[Tsar]

In many cases, people in 2022 are more slaves than the slaves in ancient times.

No they aren’t.

Modern people are whiny as f**k. They feel shockingly entitled to not show up to work, not do their jobs, show up late, or leave work in the middle of their shift. If you did that as a Roman slave you’d be beaten within a half an inch of your life. In the modern workforce we can’t even get our boss to agree to punish them in any way.

They only do that because they either hate the work or they don't feel like they're getting enough compensation. Also, 9-5 isn't really optimal for human health, it's leftover from the Industrial Revolution which saw humanity subjected to low wages, long hours, and that's part of why many decided to adopt Marxism, Communism, and Bolshevism.

The Industrial Revolution was one of the most toxic things in human history because it exploited the people, poisoned the Earth, and was one of the things that contributed to the decline of traditional values.

[Outcast9428]

In many cases, people in 2022 are more slaves than the slaves in ancient times.

No they aren’t.

Modern people are whiny as f**k. They feel shockingly entitled to not show up to work, not do their jobs, show up late, or leave work in the middle of their shift. If you did that as a Roman slave you’d be beaten within a half an inch of your life. In the modern workforce we can’t even get our boss to agree to punish them in any way.

They only do that because they either hate the work or they don't feel like they're getting enough compensation. Also, 9-5 isn't really optimal for human health, it's leftover from the Industrial Revolution which saw humanity subjected to low wages, long hours, and that's part of why many decided to adopt Marxism, Communism, and Bolshevism.

The Industrial Revolution was one of the most toxic things in human history because it exploited the people, poisoned the Earth, and was one of the things that contributed to the decline of traditional values.

People not doing their job because they don’t think they’re getting paid enough doesn’t sound like slavery to me. Slavery is “do your job and I might not whip you til you’re back is bloody and raw.”

[Tsar]

In many cases, people in 2022 are more slaves than the slaves in ancient times.

No they aren’t.

Modern people are whiny as f**k. They feel shockingly entitled to not show up to work, not do their jobs, show up late, or leave work in the middle of their shift. If you did that as a Roman slave you’d be beaten within a half an inch of your life. In the modern workforce we can’t even get our boss to agree to punish them in any way.

They only do that because they either hate the work or they don't feel like they're getting enough compensation. Also, 9-5 isn't really optimal for human health, it's leftover from the Industrial Revolution which saw humanity subjected to low wages, long hours, and that's part of why many decided to adopt Marxism, Communism, and Bolshevism.

The Industrial Revolution was one of the most toxic things in human history because it exploited the people, poisoned the Earth, and was one of the things that contributed to the decline of traditional values.

People not doing their job because they don’t think they’re getting paid enough doesn’t sound like slavery to me. Slavery is “do your job and I might not whip you til you’re back is bloody and raw.”

I didn't say that was slavery. I was saying that's why people in 2022 might not be good workers. If a worker is bring paid under $15 or under $25 an hour depending on cost of living, they aren't going to put in as much effort or care about the work.

[CaptainSkelebob]

I was going to make a new theead about the morality of atheism and how belief in the scientific model is just and moral
The dissemination of idiotic lies and anti science shit like sky fairys and flat earth are immoral and more like cults of make belief than anything real
Atheists follow the evidence and what can be proven thru the scientific method
Atheists dont need religion or any other fantasys to dictate how to be moral and just
We have basic morals contribute to society and live in peace with other humans
If you need religion to tell you not to kill someone then you are not really moral!! Coz you need a make believe father figure to tell everyone what is moral and what is not
Religions should be in the f***ing fiction section along with all that shit about reincarnation and big foot
Reading some ppls shit on here makes me feel like im using this forum as a way to view the ancient world
Science is moral
The quest for knowledge is always moral and its suppression is immoral
Flat earth and religions are immoral coz they are archaic and have no place in the modern world fellas

[Outcast9428]

I was going to make a new theead about the morality of atheism and how belief in the scientific model is just and moral
The dissemination of idiotic lies and anti science shit like sky fairys and flat earth are immoral and more like cults of make belief than anything real
Atheists follow the evidence and what can be proven thru the scientific method
Atheists dont need religion or any other fantasys to dictate how to be moral and just
We have basic morals contribute to society and live in peace with other humans
If you need religion to tell you not to kill someone then you are not really moral!! Coz you need a make believe father figure to tell everyone what is moral and what is not
Religions should be in the f***ing fiction section along with all that shit about reincarnation and big foot
Reading some ppls shit on here makes me feel like im using this forum as a way to view the ancient world
Science is moral
The quest for knowledge is always moral and its suppression is immoral
Flat earth and religions are immoral coz they are archaic and have no place in the modern world fellas

Omega males on here like @Outcast9428 are very superstitious and don't understand things like genetics, science, etc.

I know how genetics and science works much better then you do. Its a personal obsession of mine.

[Pixel--Dude]

In many cases, people in 2022 are more slaves than the slaves in ancient times.

No they aren’t.

Modern people are whiny as f**k. They feel shockingly entitled to not show up to work, not do their jobs, show up late, or leave work in the middle of their shift. If you did that as a Roman slave you’d be beaten within a half an inch of your life. In the modern workforce we can’t even get our boss to agree to punish them in any way.

Espousing the proletariat work ethic is just about the most NPC opinion one can have. How is it much different to slaving away for a corporation that gets to decide when you eat, when you can take a toilet break, when you can have days to yourself or even deny you time off for holidays with family or other reasons? Modern work culture is nothing more than clandestine slavery and those who support it are well conditioned slave souls.

@CaptainSkelebob

I also believe that the pursuit of knowledge and truth are objectively moral. But unlike yourself I believe curiosity is a sign of intelligence. Questioning things isn't a sign of stupidity. Blindly accepting what you're told as truth is ignorant and ignorance is the cornerstone of stupidity "fella"

[CaptainSkelebob]

I was going to make a new theead about the morality of atheism and how belief in the scientific model is just and moral
The dissemination of idiotic lies and anti science shit like sky fairys and flat earth are immoral and more like cults of make belief than anything real
Atheists follow the evidence and what can be proven thru the scientific method
Atheists dont need religion or any other fantasys to dictate how to be moral and just
We have basic morals contribute to society and live in peace with other humans
If you need religion to tell you not to kill someone then you are not really moral!! Coz you need a make believe father figure to tell everyone what is moral and what is not
Religions should be in the f***ing fiction section along with all that shit about reincarnation and big foot
Reading some ppls shit on here makes me feel like im using this forum as a way to view the ancient world
Science is moral
The quest for knowledge is always moral and its suppression is immoral
Flat earth and religions are immoral coz they are archaic and have no place in the modern world fellas

Omega males on here like @Outcast9428 are very superstitious and don't understand things like genetics, science, etc.

Ppl like outcast are anti science since rhey believe in sky fairys and have little peckers
The f***ing noodle dick little fag

[CaptainSkelebob]

In many cases, people in 2022 are more slaves than the slaves in ancient times.

No they aren’t.

Modern people are whiny as f**k. They feel shockingly entitled to not show up to work, not do their jobs, show up late, or leave work in the middle of their shift. If you did that as a Roman slave you’d be beaten within a half an inch of your life. In the modern workforce we can’t even get our boss to agree to punish them in any way.

Espousing the proletariat work ethic is just about the most NPC opinion one can have. How is it much different to slaving away for a corporation that gets to decide when you eat, when you can take a toilet break, when you can have days to yourself or even deny you time off for holidays with family or other reasons? Modern work culture is nothing more than clandestine slavery and those who support it are well conditioned slave souls.

@CaptainSkelebob

I also believe that the pursuit of knowledge and truth are objectively moral. But unlike yourself I believe curiosity is a sign of intelligence. Questioning things isn't a sign of stupidity. Blindly accepting what you're told as truth is ignorant and ignorance is the cornerstone of stupidity "fella"

The only thing I am questioning is if you got an extra cheomosome

[Outcast9428]

In many cases, people in 2022 are more slaves than the slaves in ancient times.

No they aren’t.

Modern people are whiny as f**k. They feel shockingly entitled to not show up to work, not do their jobs, show up late, or leave work in the middle of their shift. If you did that as a Roman slave you’d be beaten within a half an inch of your life. In the modern workforce we can’t even get our boss to agree to punish them in any way.

Espousing the proletariat work ethic is just about the most NPC opinion one can have. How is it much different to slaving away for a corporation that gets to decide when you eat, when you can take a toilet break, when you can have days to yourself or even deny you time off for holidays with family or other reasons? Modern work culture is nothing more than clandestine slavery and those who support it are well conditioned slave souls.

@CaptainSkelebob

I also believe that the pursuit of knowledge and truth are objectively moral. But unlike yourself I believe curiosity is a sign of intelligence. Questioning things isn't a sign of stupidity. Blindly accepting what you're told as truth is ignorant and ignorance is the cornerstone of stupidity "fella"

Or maybe I’m just a realist who understands that you can’t operate a functioning society while letting everybody just do whatever the f**k they want.

My workplace can’t do shit. It took one guy not showing up to work 20 times over the course of about 4 or 5 months before he got fired. If I told them that I can’t come to work on a holiday they are going to let me because there’s nothing they can do. They don’t have people who can easily replace me. I don’t ever work on holidays. That includes Halloween, I took the day off for Halloween.

I cannot believe half the shit people get away with nowadays. Anyone claiming the modern workforce is some slave labor system that works people half to death and exerts all this power and control over everybody’s lives is either being deliberately dishonest or they work in an unusually stressful career path.

I’m not an NPC, I just know how the world works and I’ve accepted it. I’m not saying you have to love your job. I feel frustrated with it often. But it gives me decent enough money which is good enough for now. It’s not the best situation but I do think people are being whiny when they act like this is the worst thing ever.

Quite frankly I strongly prefer working over school.

[Pixel--Dude]

Or maybe I’m just a realist who understands that you can’t operate a functioning society while letting everybody just do whatever the f**k they want.

You're far from a realist, @Outcast9428. Especially if you believe a capitalist society represents anything close to a functioning society. A society which values paper with dead people's faces on more than human life is dysfunctional. Our society is not civilised at all and lacks in basic values.

Why shouldn't people be able to do whatever they want? Why should you or I be made to work 40+ hours a week by virtue of some technocratic asshole who monopolised all the resources? If work was automated and the necessary work was shared out equally among able bodied people then everyone would have more time for their passions and to invest in their relationships with other human beings. Instead people become estranged and compartmentalised through toxic ideologies such as the promotion of the soulless proletariat work ethic.

My workplace can’t do shit. It took one guy not showing up to work 20 times over the course of about 4 or 5 months before he got fired. If I told them that I can’t come to work on a holiday they are going to let me because there’s nothing they can do. They don’t have people who can easily replace me. I don’t ever work on holidays. That includes Halloween, I took the day off for Halloween.

I don't have much interest in your anecdotal experiences in the workplace. Again you are taking your own personal experience, in this case your work place in particular, and applying it to every person and every work place. Not everyone works for the same company as you. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to dictate to a corporation when they take time off. It's an employers market and everyone is easily replaced. This is how employers have people by the short and curlies. Some companies even threaten their employees for posting particular points of view on their own social media pages and all the rest of it.

I cannot believe half the shit people get away with nowadays. Anyone claiming the modern workforce is some slave labor system that works people half to death and exerts all this power and control over everybody’s lives is either being deliberately dishonest or they work in an unusually stressful career path.

Or they're just not a slave soul NPC who values the soul destroying work ethic. This is the problem. Ignorance and those who push their misguided moral notion of hard work being a virtue onto everyone else. People who don't like this lifestyle are expected to shut the f**k up and tow the line, right?

I think to try and rationalise the proletariat work ethic as something which is moral and virtuous is what is dishonest. To pretend the system isn't zero sum game is ignorant and naive. So, working from 18 years old until you're an old man and your physical and mental health are exhausted isn't being worked to death? All the focus and pressure to "perform" at work like an automaton is f***ing soulless. It's little wonder suicide rates are sky high as this kind of life has no meaning for sensible people.

I’m not an NPC, I just know how the world works and I’ve accepted it. I’m not saying you have to love your job. I feel frustrated with it often. But it gives me decent enough money which is good enough for now. It’s not the best situation but I do think people are being whiny when they act like this is the worst thing ever.

Quite frankly I strongly prefer working over school.

I think the kind of person that supports this kind of system is a quintessential NPC. It seems that you are happy to toil away like a slave for a living, and you erroneously correlate that lifestyle with some objective moral value. In reality it is immoral this system.

Flourishing of the individual and allowing people time to cultivate themselves and invest time into building relationships and being authentically free is what would steer society more towards and semblance of being "functional". Modern work culture is just clandestine slavery, it's just that most people are too blind to recognise it.

[Outcast9428]

Or maybe I’m just a realist who understands that you can’t operate a functioning society while letting everybody just do whatever the f**k they want.

You're far from a realist, @Outcast9428. Especially if you believe a capitalist society represents anything close to a functioning society. A society which values paper with dead people's faces on more than human life is dysfunctional. Our society is not civilised at all and lacks in basic values.

Why shouldn't people be able to do whatever they want? Why should you or I be made to work 40+ hours a week by virtue of some technocratic asshole who monopolised all the resources? If work was automated and the necessary work was shared out equally among able bodied people then everyone would have more time for their passions and to invest in their relationships with other human beings. Instead people become estranged and compartmentalised through toxic ideologies such as the promotion of the soulless proletariat work ethic.

My workplace can’t do shit. It took one guy not showing up to work 20 times over the course of about 4 or 5 months before he got fired. If I told them that I can’t come to work on a holiday they are going to let me because there’s nothing they can do. They don’t have people who can easily replace me. I don’t ever work on holidays. That includes Halloween, I took the day off for Halloween.

I don't have much interest in your anecdotal experiences in the workplace. Again you are taking your own personal experience, in this case your work place in particular, and applying it to every person and every work place. Not everyone works for the same company as you. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to dictate to a corporation when they take time off. It's an employers market and everyone is easily replaced. This is how employers have people by the short and curlies. Some companies even threaten their employees for posting particular points of view on their own social media pages and all the rest of it.

I cannot believe half the shit people get away with nowadays. Anyone claiming the modern workforce is some slave labor system that works people half to death and exerts all this power and control over everybody’s lives is either being deliberately dishonest or they work in an unusually stressful career path.

Or they're just not a slave soul NPC who values the soul destroying work ethic. This is the problem. Ignorance and those who push their misguided moral notion of hard work being a virtue onto everyone else. People who don't like this lifestyle are expected to shut the f**k up and tow the line, right?

I think to try and rationalise the proletariat work ethic as something which is moral and virtuous is what is dishonest. To pretend the system isn't zero sum game is ignorant and naive. So, working from 18 years old until you're an old man and your physical and mental health are exhausted isn't being worked to death? All the focus and pressure to "perform" at work like an automaton is f***ing soulless. It's little wonder suicide rates are sky high as this kind of life has no meaning for sensible people.

I’m not an NPC, I just know how the world works and I’ve accepted it. I’m not saying you have to love your job. I feel frustrated with it often. But it gives me decent enough money which is good enough for now. It’s not the best situation but I do think people are being whiny when they act like this is the worst thing ever.

Quite frankly I strongly prefer working over school.

I think the kind of person that supports this kind of system is a quintessential NPC. It seems that you are happy to toil away like a slave for a living, and you erroneously correlate that lifestyle with some objective moral value. In reality it is immoral this system.

Flourishing of the individual and allowing people time to cultivate themselves and invest time into building relationships and being authentically free is what would steer society more towards and semblance of being "functional". Modern work culture is just clandestine slavery, it's just that most people are too blind to recognise it.

Because you can’t just automate all labor away. I’m sure you’ve had the frustrating experience of calling a bank or some other corporate office where they wanted you to get your issue with whatever solved by a robot. It doesn’t work, and you are practically yelling at the phone “let me talk to a human!”

Sharing resources equally sounds like communism. Communism was a complete disaster and I’m not willing to give it any benefit of the doubt that “this time it will work.” When it has already been a horrific failure over and over again.

Our work day may technically be 40+ hours a week but in practice it isn’t because people spend a lot of time at work not actually doing work. This isn’t just my workplace I’ve read a study that says the average employee only effective works 5 hours a day because they spend the other three hours or so talking to co-workers or playing with their phone. I make most of my posts here when I’m at work because I have nothing to do. My work involves me responding to issues when they pop up and sometimes nothing happens for a solid hour or so and even then I might be able to solve it in like two minutes.

Personally I would prefer it if we weren’t physically at work as long but more productive while we were there. At my job that would simply be impossible.

Work is just the reality of life on Earth. We can try to reduce it but eliminating it from your life is impossible. If you want to never work again then try to get into heaven. But it’s not going to happen on Earth because letting people treat work like it’s optional will result in society falling apart. We’re already getting a taste of that with the number of people nowadays who are treating work like it’s optional and you can feel it. Things do not run as effectively as they did before the pandemic. Things that broke down around the house that you used to be able to hire somebody to come out tomorrow to fix you now have to wait a month or two for. I had to replace my drivers license because I fell victim to a scam where somebody was trying to steal my identity and they required me to schedule an appointment and that appointment wasn’t for two months. So I had to wait two months while the person could potentially be stealing my identity because the department of motor vehicles office didn’t have enough workers.

Thinking we can just automate all work away and give everybody the same resources and that everyone will just get together and sing kumbaya all day is an incredibly naive, childish view.