Why do spiritual people always say "Thoughts create reality"? Isn't that false and victim-blaming?

[Winston]

I have a question that I can't seem to get a good answer to.

You know how these New Agers believe that "thoughts create reality" and how the Holographic Universe theorists say that there is no objective reality and that everything is created by the mind, supported by many discoveries in quantum physics? Hippies are also fond of saying "You create your own reality" too.

Ok well if that's so, then why is it that I can put a blue table in the middle of a room full of people and tell them all that it's a yellow table, yet they'll all still unanimously see a blue table? Isn't that obvious proof of an objective reality? Or an objective existence of material objects at least?

They also seem to say that whatever you think, happens, and that whatever happens to you happens as a result of your expectations and thoughts. But if that's so, then how come we can't fly or walk through walls? How come the Titanic sunk even though everyone "thought" it was unsinkable?

Hippies and New Agers respond to this by saying that our thoughts aren't powerful enough to allow us to fly or walk through walls. But isn't that a copout, since no one has demonstrated that their thoughts can allow them to fly and walk through walls? And also, if our thoughts aren't that powerful then why do they talk about it as though all our reality were created by our thoughts? They can't have it both ways.

Also, New Age gurus like Wayne Dyer and Deepak Chopra, and films like "What the bleep do we know" and "The Secret" make it sound as if thoughts were ALL POWERFUL and could do anything.

One thing that ticks me is that they never DEFINE the exact limitations or degree of power that "thoughts" have. Dean Radin and psi researchers say that it's only been proven that thoughts have a microscopic effect on outcomes, such as in PEAR's random number generator experiments, or Ganzfeld's telepathy experiments.

Ok so they've defined it as miniscule but statistically significant to show a real effect. So if it's miniscule then why do Wayne Dyer and Deepak Chopra and other New Age gurus claim that thoughts are all powerful and that you create your own reality, as though it were Gospel Truth, as though thoughts were all powerful and limitless and that if you don't believe this, then you only have yourself to blame?

Are they BSing to sell books? Do they know it? And why is it that only the middle class and above folks tend to believe that their thoughts created their reality, and not the poor folks? Is it because the rich like to take credit for their status, so the idea that their thoughts created their reality sounds appealing to them? And the poor are more practical and see it as BS (since if their thoughts really controlled reality then they wouldn't be poor).

I have read the whole book "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot, and it does contain a lot of great theories, quantum physics discoveries and examples that are interesting and make sense. But it never answers these questions, such as the blue table example above. And New Agers and hippies tend to issue cop out answers like "our thoughts aren't powerful enough yet", but if that's so, then how can they be creating our reality? They can't have it both ways.

What do you think?

There are discoveries in quantum physics, such as Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, that indicate that reality may be an illusion. But if that's so, then how come everyone can see the blue table in the middle of the room unanimously? If I drive a red sports car, everyone will see the same thing, regardless of my beliefs or their beliefs. They may like or dislike the red car but they will see the same physical image nevertheless.

So how does the universe being an illusion or a projection of our thoughts explain that?

I can't get a clear answer to this. Can anyone help? Thanks.

[V]

Hey, Winston.

By the way, you go by Vinstonas, but you are also Winston, right? (Just checking)

I like how you question everything -- not just about being "happier abroad," but everything in life. I'm the same way. The only way for a man to be free is to question.

Regarding reality, it is objective, not subjective.

Hippies and others who claim they can create reality or that reality is subjective are just ... wrong.

People once thought the Earth was flat, too ... but they were wrong.

Here's a good experiment to try.

Next time someone tells you that reality is subjective, ask them if their brain creates reality. They should say yes, since this is their argument. Then ask if their brain exists. They should say yes. Then ask them if the existence of their brain is part of reality. They should say yes. Then ask them if the existence of their brain is objective or subjective. In other words, if your brain tells you that their brain does not exist, does that mean their brain no longer exists? Is the existence of their brain (which is part of realty) dependent upon what you or someone else thinks? Or, is the existence of their brain *independent* of what anyone else's brain might think (like the Earth being flat).

Ultimately, anyone who thinks reality, as a whole, is subjective is making an error in logic somewhere.

... why is it that I can put a blue table in the middle of a room full of people and tell them all that it's a yellow table, yet they'll all still unanimously see a blue table? Isn't that obvious proof of an objective reality?

Yes, it is.

They also seem to say that whatever you think, happens, and that whatever happens to you happens as a result of your expectations and thoughts. But if that's so, then how come we can't fly or walk through walls? How come the Titanic sunk even though everyone "thought" it was unsinkable?

Because people who say they can think their way to "creating reality" are wrong. You are right.

Hippies and New Agers respond to this by saying that our thoughts aren't powerful enough to allow us to fly or walk through walls. But isn't that a copout,...

Yes, it is. Just ask them to prove it. They will either be silent or come up with BS. Some people just say this crap because they think it is interesting to think about, like a science fiction book or movie. But those who really do think like this are extremely deluded people. I usually walk the other way if I find out they really are this distanced from reality.

One thing that ticks me is that they never DEFINE the exact limitations or degree of power that "thoughts" have.

The bottom line is they never define the terms they are using. This is referred to as "floating abstractions." They come up with an abstract idea, without defining it clearly, and then when pressed to explain or prove their point, their ideas magically transform into something else that they also don't define, but they pretend explains their position more clearly.

Ok so they've defined it as miniscule but statistically significant to show a real effect. So if it's miniscule then why do Wayne Dyer and Deepak Chopra and other New Age gurus claim that thoughts are all powerful and that you create your own reality, as though it were Gospel Truth, as though thoughts were all powerful and limitless and that if you don't believe this, then you only have yourself to blame?

Thoughts are powerful. Absolutely. They can cause one man to go to war for the benefit of another man and to the detriment of himself ("nationalism"). They can cause one man agree to be enslaved by another man and believe it is good ("taxation"). Thoughts are extremely powerful in human action. But thoughts do not create reality itself. They do not turn a blue table into a yellow table through thoughts alone, but they can motive a human to take action, get some yellow paint, and turn the blue table into a yellow one by painting it.

Another important point is that thoughts are the means for some humans to control other humans. Selling books is a motive. Getting speaking gigs and not having to dig ditches for a living is a motive. Gaining political power is a motive. Lots of motives for people to come up with all sorts of bullshit and see if other people will buy it.

There are discoveries in quantum physics, such as Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, that indicate that reality may be an illusion.

It is a logical fallacy to observe the behavior of very small matter and then extrapolate that into a theory for all matter.

[momopi]

Wishing a blue table would turn yellow is not going to change the color.

Where thoughts turn into realities,

Positive thinking reflected in the person's body language, speech pattern, attitude, etc. that makes him/her more appealing to others. Sales people utilize this to improve their sales.

Placebo effect: works like chicken soup. You feel better, you get better.

[V]

Wishing a blue table would turn yellow is not going to change the color.

Where thoughts turn into realities,

Positive thinking reflected in the person's body language, speech pattern, attitude, etc. that makes him/her more appealing to others. Sales people utilize this to improve their sales.

Placebo effect: works like chicken soup. You feel better, you get better.

The reason the blue table does not turn yellow is because matter does not change in response to someone's thoughts.

Humans, on the other hand, are biological creatures, and we live primarily by using our brains. We have a thought, and that thought will determine our action(s). Taking one action instead of a different one can lead to different outcomes. That is the nature of human beings.

However, that is not the same discussion as the nature of reality itself (objective or subjective). It is the nature of humans, but not reality as a whole.

Using the word "reality" (or "realities") to mean an individual's life experiences is not what is meant in the philosophical context. From a philosophical context, "reality" means all that exists. You cannot examine the nature of humans and then extrapolate that to reality as a whole.

I realize people often use the word "reality" to mean personal experiences (my reality, your reality, create your own reality, etc.), but these are not the correct usage of the word in a philosophical context.

"All that exists" is what is meant by "reality" when the topic is whether reality, as such, is objective or subjective.

[Winston]

Wishing a blue table would turn yellow is not going to change the color.

Where thoughts turn into realities,

Positive thinking reflected in the person's body language, speech pattern, attitude, etc. that makes him/her more appealing to others. Sales people utilize this to improve their sales.

Placebo effect: works like chicken soup. You feel better, you get better.

The reason the blue table does not turn yellow is because matter does not change in response to someone's thoughts.

Humans, on the other hand, are biological creatures, and we live primarily by using our brains. We have a thought, and that thought will determine our action(s). Taking one action instead of a different one can lead to different outcomes. That is the nature of human beings.

However, that is not the same discussion as the nature of reality itself (objective or subjective). It is the nature of humans, but not reality as a whole.

Using the word "reality" (or "realities") to mean an individual's life experiences is not what is meant in the philosophical context. From a philosophical context, "reality" means all that exists. You cannot examine the nature of humans and then extrapolate that to reality as a whole.

I realize people often use the word "reality" to mean personal experiences (my reality, your reality, create your own reality, etc.), but these are not the correct usage of the word in a philosophical context.

"All that exists" is what is meant by "reality" when the topic is whether reality, as such, is objective or subjective.

W: Theoretically, collective thoughts of many people can have an effect on matter. A single individual doesn't, unless his/her mind is aligned with the "universal consciousness" that we are a part of. This is why some people's prayers are almost always answered or answered more frequently, because their will and prayer is aligned with God's or the universal consciousness'.

Check out what these experts and physicists say about matter being ultimately an illusion. It's very very fascinating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZj9Qps8H6M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edryg3JYKsw

[Winston]

I don't get something. If our consciousness and thoughts create our reality, then why didn't we all create a perfect paradise or utopia where no pain and suffering exists? Why create this world that's full of suffering, pain, and injustice, where people are economically enslaved and not free? Who would create a world like this? If I am god, why would I create that? Why can't I change that and make this world a paradise just by willing it? Why don't I have super powers like the Jedi or like Q from Star Trek: The Next Generation?

How come New Agers never address this obvious question and why don't other New Agers ask them?

[Outcast9428]

It depends on the extent to which we are saying its true. Obviously you can't just will anything into existence with your thoughts. You can't change objective reality.

However, I do think your thoughts and actions can change which objective reality you end up living in. I've talked to enough people to realize that some people legitimately do seem like they live in a different world. The reason this happens is because people are attracted to people who are like them on a subconscious level. Sometimes you can walk into a room full of people and just know that these are not your people and then leave. By doing this, people essentially are creating their own world because the behavior of people around you sets your expectations for how you think people should behave. And once your expectations are set, you try to avoid people who behave in ways you dislike and be around others who's behavior fits your expectations.

Consider that, because of the people I hang out with on a regular basis. In my world, going to strip clubs is very normal. To a lot of other people, going to strip clubs is unthinkable. It might as well not exist on their radar. People also often deliberately choose to be in environments where they expect there to be a lot of people like themselves. Your thoughts and expectations also subtly influence the behavior of people around you. I can't help but notice that a lot of people I've become close to start adopting some of my beliefs and entertainment tastes. In this sense, you are in-fact shaping the world around you with your thoughts.

[MrMan]

You might be able to think about working hard, plan out ways to be more efficient at work, so you can be successful in your job, then do well at work and get the promotion or more sales or whatever. If that is what you mean by creating your own reality, then we can do a little of that. But you aren't going to turn the sun red or create world peace by thinking about it.

[Winston]

Bullshit teaching from Indian guru:



Check out this comment below it and my response. I was the only one who called BS on it. Why?

rajendra patole
2 months ago
What you feel, you attract!
What you think, you become!
What you imagine, you create!

Happier Abroad - Expat Living and Dating Overseas
57 seconds ago
BS. you can delude yourself all you want, but you can't be something you are not. you can believe 100 percent that you are the president of the USA or a movie star but other people are NOT gonna see you that way. it's self delusion. thoughts do affect us but only in certain ways, not in the all powerful way that New Agers BS about. come on. how can you fall for such BS?

Happier Abroad - Expat Living and Dating Overseas
6 seconds ago
if you are ugly and you believe you are beautiful, everyone is still gonna treat you as if you are ugly. sorry. no can do. self-delusion. your thoughts can give you better health but they will NOT turn you into something you are not!

[Winston]

New video I made debunking the "you create your own reality" and "thoughts create reality" myth and dogma with basic logic and common sense.

[Winston]

@Lucas88

Check out this Rabbi claiming that "thoughts create reality" and that this is what Kabbalah teaches. Is that so? Is he just using Kabbalah as a vehicle to preach standard New Age claptrap? Isn't that a misuse of Kabbalah? Why does everyone on YouTube say this and all spiritual people too, if it's obviously untrue for the most part and doesn't make sense?



My comments below his video:

"This is not accurate. Thoughts REFLECT reality, they don't create it. The spiritual community and new agers have it BACKWARDS. For example, if you put your finger on a stove it will burn it, not because you believe it, but because it is. So your thoughts reflect that reality, but do not cause it. This is obvious. Why are you all so delusional? If thoughts create reality why did the Titanic sink even though everyone believed it was unsinkable? Why didn't Amelia Earhart make her last flight even though she believed she would? Why didn't Elizabeth Holmes succeed at Theranos since she believed in it 110 percent and followed every new age rule in the book? How come New Agers never address these questions? They always run away as if their beliefs are a house of cards. I wonder if everyone is an NPC. How can everyone be so devoid or reason and common sense???!!!

Also if thoughts create reality then everyone would only think positive thoughts and get positive outcomes and the world would be a perfect utopia where only positive experiences exist. Duh. Do you all honestly think that things only go wrong if you believe they will? And that nothing goes wrong as long as you are positive? LOLOLOL ROTFL!!!!!! Of course things still go wrong if you are positive, if they are meant to."