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Does Race Matter for Women?

Discuss racial, ethnic and multicultural issues. Warning: The topics here are likely to be taboo, so if you are easily offended, you are better off not participating here.

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Kradmelder
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Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Kradmelder » May 9th, 2017, 5:27 am

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/ ... RGxMeWGNPY

According to this article (the tables don't reproduce so you have to look at the link) women go more for race then men do. An they look at your degree. It shows women strongly prefer their own race and class and want men that achieve.

Elite white females (that was the sample) want white males and asian come out the lowest. There is Winston's predicament.
Black women seem to only want black men
Asian women slightly prefer white men over asian

It looks tough for asian men.
One social science finding which I’ve wondered about over the past few years is the result that women care much more about the race of a potential mate than men do. The fact that individuals tend to want to mate assortatively with those who share their characteristics is no surprise. Rather, what does surprise are a series of papers that show a very strong asymmetry in strength of preference between males and females. To be crass about it, an attractive warm body will do for a man, but women strongly prefer a body with the packaging of their own race!
First, let’s keep this in perspective, here are the correlations from the GSS for married individuals for several variables of note (I’ve filtered for whites here):

Ethnicity – 0.40
Highest Degree – 0.55
Socioeconomic index – 0.32

I think it’s interesting to note that the variable which reveals meritocratic achievement has the highest correlation. Ethnicity is something you’re born into, and socioeconomic index is a metric which derives from the milieu in which you were raised.

This post is going to review some findings in a paper which attempts to both describe the differences in race preference for dating by race and across genders, and, why those differences might emerge the way that they do. The paper is Racial Preferences in Dating, Review of Economic Studies (click the link to download and read the whole thing yourself!). Here’s the abstract:

We examine racial preferences in dating. We employ a Speed Dating experiment that allows us to directly observe individual decisions and thus infer whose preferences lead to racial segregation in romantic relationships. Females exhibit stronger racial preferences than males. The richness of our data further allows us to identify many determinants of same-race preferences. Subjects’ backgrounds, including the racial composition of the ZIP code where a subject grew up and the prevailing racial attitudes in a subject’s state or country of origin, strongly influence same-race preferences. Older subjects and more physically attractive subjects exhibit weaker same-race preferences.

A few points need to be made clear: males do not exhibit statistically significant racial preferences by and large. That’s somewhat shocking to me. I’m not surprised that older subjects have weaker biases, I suspect frankly they’re more realistic and don’t want to narrow their options anymore than they have to. Finally, I’m totally confused as to why hotties would be less race conscious; you would figure if hybrid vigor is real that the marginal returns would be greatest for the fuglies (specifically, assuming that fugitude correlates with individual mutational load and hybridization would be better at masking that load). But the most relevant demographic point is that these are Columbia University graduate students. In other words, a cognitively & socially elite sample.

table1racistwomen.jpg

As you can see the demographics are unsurprising for an elite university. Do note that South Asians were discarded from the Asian category so that Asian within this study refers only to East Asians. The researchers collected a fair amount of data prior to sending them through the Speed Dating experiment. These and the GSS were used to generate independent variables that could be used to predict the extent to which race might matter. In the end, race didn’t matter that much, just to a statistically significant extent. The authors note that 47% of matches were interracial, while random expectations would have predicted 53%. Random mating in the general population would result in 44% of marriages being interracial, while only 4% are. It is obvious though that demographic segregation will shift away from a panmictic dynamic, and, I think marriage is frankly a higher bar than accepting the proposal for a date.
Here’s the chart that shows you who wanted who:

table2racistwomen.jpg

Just inspecting the table, it’s pretty obvious what’s going on here. Some general observations:

1) Black women at Columbia are really open to dating black men. Take a look at the sex ratios there.
2) Asian dudes are really screwed. Not only are non-Asian women not impressed, but Asian women aren’t reciprocally racially discriminatory to level the playing field.
3) Women care a lot more about race than men. Though there is some variation in the male acceptances by race, but as I said most of the differences were not statistically significant. To make this concrete, black women were three times as likely to say yes to a black man as they were to an Asian man (though white women were the most repulsed by Asian men clearly).

That’s pretty simple. Here’s the nitty-gritty on their model. This is their first linear equation:

Decisionij = αi +β1Blackj +β2Hispanicj +β3Asianj +εij,
i = subject and j = partner, so this is the decision of the subject in relation to the partner.

Here’s the table which lays it out:

table3racistwomen.jpg

I’ll let the paper talk here:

We first look at the decisions of female subjects. For all races except Asians, all the coefficients on the race indicator variables are negative, implying a same-race preference. For black and white subjects, these coefficients are jointly significant (p-value < 0·01); for Hispanics, the joint significance is at the 10% level, with most of the effect derived from a significant (p <0·05) preference against Asian males. For Asian subjects, no coefficient is individually significant, nor are they jointly so. Finally, we can reject the hypothesis of equal preference against partners of other races for white, black, and Hispanic subjects, owing largely to the greater preference against Asian males by all other races.

For male subjects, the coefficients on racial preferences are predominantly negative but are not jointly significant at 5% for any race. For white and black subjects, when females and males are pooled and gender-race interactions included we find that the male race coefficients are significantly closer to zero than the female race coefficients. In analogous regressions for Asian average, women exhibit stronger racial preferences than men. Note that, since our specification includes subject fixed effects, this difference cannot be due to differential selectivity.

One possible reason for this gender difference might be the different dating goals of men and women. In particular, one might be concerned that women are more interested in forming a relationship while men are more interested in casual sex and that race has greater relevance for the former endeavour. However, in Section 3.3, we demonstrate that older subjects (who, based on their self-reported dating goals, are more interested in forming a relationship) exhibit substantially weaker same-race preferences. Thus, the observed difference seems to reflect a genuine disparity in men’s and women’s willingness to be with a partner of a different race, rather than differing goals.

First, Asian guys are screwed, obviously. I mean, look at how strongly Latinas have an aversion to Asian guys! Secondly, I don’t actually buy their dismissal of different goals. I’ll get into that later.
You might ask here if the differences are simply due to objective differences in attractiveness. In other words, are Asian guys just ugly, explaining their rejections? The short answer is to some extent. The authors find that some of the rejection rate for Asians in general seem to be explainable as a function of the judgment that they’re just not as attractive. Here’s the above table controlled for attractiveness:

table4racistwomen.jpg

There is a difference. But the general outline remains the same. At this point the researchers decided to simplify the presentation; they pooled the other races aside from same race and clumped males and females together when trying to tease apart the determinants of racial preferences. They found in preliminary analysis that though females are much more strongly biased, males exhibit the same pattern of determinants.

Since you can read the whole working paper I’ll restate in plain language what they find re: determinants. If you want the exact betas just download the PDF.

Here are variables which predict same race preference:
High proportion wish ban on interracial marriage in a region
Areas where people would not want to be neighbors with another race
Areas where there are large populations of other races

Here are variables which predict less same race preference:
Older
Attractiveness, 1 standard deviation increase in attractiveness results in a 4 point decrease in same-race preference
Variables which had no effect:
Shared interests
Cultural variables (books read, etc.)
Income
There are some comments on the robustness of their findings (N for blacks isn’t very large, etc.), but generally little else in the conclusion. Here’s the only thing of note:

Schelling’s (1971) model of dynamic segregation shows that even an extremely mild preference for neighbours of one’s own race may lead to completely segregated neighbourhoods. In our dating market, however, we encounter a different relationship between micromotives and macrobehaviour: our subjects have a strong preference for partners of their own race, yet the overall level of the resulting segregation is quite small.

First, this is a sample of Columbia University graduate students! Caveat. But note that they didn’t really extend their findings much with speculation. My main issue with the paper is this: I still suspect it’s not taking into account different intent on the part of males and females. I don’t think the analogy to older students is appropriate. Their logic is simple, if one assumes that older students are looking for serious relationships and are less race conscious, if women were looking for serious relationships then they too would be less race conscious, not more. I think that this isn’t controlling for all life variables. I believe that as people age they become more realistic (or, if not, they stay single!). Someone who is young and wants a serious relationship might have an ideal type in mind who they are holding out for. Someone who is older and wants a serious relationship might realize that eliminating people on the basis of their racial type probably is constraining the field of play unnecessarily.

All that being said, what’s up with good looking individuals? I am pretty much at a loss to explain why they’re so much less race conscious. Your speculation is as good as mine. My own intuitive hunch would be that the less attractive would be less picky because they had fewer options, but that’s not how it works out. So I’m hesitant to make anything up to explain the behavior and attitudes of the good looking.

I will add one more thing, though I’m hesitant. As a man of color I feel less than empowered when criticized by heteronormatively privileged white males on this point on the comment boards as they can silence my voice with their command of the English language which has long been the tool of the master, but could it be the white male patriarchy? Perhaps women, long oppressed by males have internalized the racism which is implicit in the current dispensation. One might wager that women perceive that the choices they make are fraught with far greater long term import than those men make, and so they stick with what they see as the “safest” option in the white male heteronormative patriarchy? Those who might be able to protect them? For white women it would be the white men who control the levers of power, and for women of color it would be the men who have been oppressed by the phallocracy and have been their allies of necessity against oppression.

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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by yick » May 9th, 2017, 6:22 am

Women like what they see in the mirror, this is a fact, sure, a minority of women go for something different but I think it's also a minority of men.

Most black people date and marry black people, same with Asians.

It took me a long time to work out where I was going wrong and it only 'clicked' when I went to a country where the women looked like me. I did fine. This also happened to Winston, it happened to ZBoy and it happened to Falcon.

Also, women are very concerned about status, in the UK, there are a shortage of eligble men with a degree, which is where there are lots of single female graduates. But there is a shortage of eligble females without a degree, meaning that there are plenty of single men who didn't go to university.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... -graduates

A female graduate would rarely date or marry a man who worked in a factory without a degree, that would be even rarer than a white woman dating and marrying a non-white man, the odds of a man without a degree chasing and securing the hand of women who have graduated from university are pretty bad.

For a lot of white men - unless they prefer a different race of women - and that constitutes a minority of white men - they really need to sort their own lives out to get the women they desire, and also have realistic attitudes to the kind of women they are able to attract - but that's another thread alltogether.

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Contrarian Expatriate
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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » May 9th, 2017, 6:42 am

Worthless data because when women indicate they want something particular, that rarely comports with what they go for in real life.

For example, women say they want a nice, successful, stable man, but the RESPOND to the men (bad boys, reckless guys, alphas) who are most conducive to giving them that clitoral tingle at first sight.

While I was in law school, I noticed that I was popular with white women in ways that I had never been before. White females were trying to set me up their white female friends from undergrad school. These were upper middle class, attractive, trust fund types if you will. I was entirely skeptical given the obvious opportunism about it all. Needless to say, I never took the bait since they had never shown that kind of interest in me in the past.

From that time on, I was always circumspect about my income and position when dealing with white women. That way, I could be sure they were not gold diggers. It served me well and the white women who I dealt with simply picked up on the cues of high IQ and high status "just because." Once, I stopped at a Whole Foods (upper middle class market) still dressed in a suit for work. A white woman more attractive than I was comfortable with (at the time), stopped me, smiled, and asked me if I worked at XYZ company. I told her I did not, and that she had me confused with someone else. By her reaction, I could tell she was expecting me to retort with where I ACTUALLY worked but I declined to say. This was a case of white female hypergamy par excellence!

So I will say it again as I have said before, women might state their preference in a survey but that has little to no relation to what they choose in real life.

Hypergamy always hijacks a woman's logic, plans, and stated preferences. Trust me on that!

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Adama
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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Adama » May 9th, 2017, 8:01 am

You can see where someone's heart is by what comes out of their mouth, especially if it comes out consistently. Racism and racialism.

zboy1
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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by zboy1 » May 9th, 2017, 8:11 am

Of course race matters! Human beings are racialist, like it or not. It's just that some hide it better than others.

Woman are gold diggers at heart, so they will go after the race that is 'in power.' Otherwise you wouldn't see females refusing to marry outside of their races, or refusing to marry Black and Asian men.

Kradmelder
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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Kradmelder » May 9th, 2017, 8:29 am

zboy1 wrote:Of course race matters! Human beings are racialist, like it or not. It's just that some hide it better than others.

Woman are gold diggers at heart, so they will go after the race that is 'in power.' Otherwise you wouldn't see females refusing to marry outside of their races, or refusing to marry Black and Asian men.
Dont quite agree. Blacks are in power in SA. You dont see white women rushing out to marry them even if they drive a merc. White women in asian countries are not rushing after asian men in power.

There is more to it than women just chasing the men in power.

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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Man With a Plan » May 9th, 2017, 8:43 am

zboy1 wrote:Of course race matters! Human beings are racialist, like it or not. It's just that some hide it better than others.
Speak for yourself. I hate everyone equally! The only population of people I give preferential treatment to are those improving themselves.
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Adama
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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Adama » May 9th, 2017, 8:49 am

The problem with false beliefs is that whatever happens to you will be construed to support that belief, even despite evidence to the contrary.

There are lots of women supporting their men. There are even lots of women working middle class careers who are supporting sick husbands at home. Not every woman is a gold digger. That is a sad view of women and humanity. There are women who love money. Those are the kinds who seek out rich men to marry. Then there are women who actually love the man himself from her heart.

The good women are the women who love their men from their heart (the woman's heart). The evil women are the ones who men must jump through hoops for. These are the ones who conduct the wallet biopsies.

For some reason men think it is normal for women to be gold digging, and whatever a woman does or says is interpreted as her digging for gold.

One poster recently stated that the simple way to avoid gold diggers is to avoid talking about career and job related matters, and let the woman choose based upon other criteria. This man knows not to use wealth as a lure, despite the fact that he is wealthy. (Even though he believes "hypergamy" is real when it is just adultery and whores being whores.)

Also, because of the beliefs in the "survival of the fittest" religion, people actually believe this "alpha dog" nonsense, that women are seeking men with power. The ego driven women are seeking men with power because they love power, not the man. These are the women who love power. This is impossible for every woman to find a man with the requisite "power." Besides that, how many powerful men are there truly? And when you look at these powerful men, you'll see that they are often supplicating to women and putting them on pedestals. In other words, although they are wealthy, they're still on the hamster wheel trying to beg women.

Many if not most rich men have no clue how to handle women, except for a direct purchase. And that only reinforces their beliefs that women must be purchased. They never even considered that a woman could give herself freely to him based upon himself rather than money. Money is god to these people.

The key is to find a woman who doesn't believe that money is a god she needs to worship to honor herself.

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Contrarian Expatriate
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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » May 9th, 2017, 9:54 am

Kradmelder wrote:
zboy1 wrote:Of course race matters! Human beings are racialist, like it or not. It's just that some hide it better than others.

Woman are gold diggers at heart, so they will go after the race that is 'in power.' Otherwise you wouldn't see females refusing to marry outside of their races, or refusing to marry Black and Asian men.
Dont quite agree. Blacks are in power in SA. You dont see white women rushing out to marry them even if they drive a merc. White women in asian countries are not rushing after asian men in power.

There is more to it than women just chasing the men in power.
Not so fast.... South African white male elites, like American white men, have always been terrified about losing their women to black men. That is why both societies passed anti-interracial marriage legislation to BAN interracial marriage.

It was repealed in South Africa after Apartheid ended and black male/white female marriages have been creeping upwards ever since according to the stats in this article.

http://city-press.news24.com/Voices/Mar ... 20151002-2

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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by droid » May 9th, 2017, 9:57 am

Adama wrote:You can see where someone's heart is by what comes out of their mouth, especially if it comes out consistently. Racism and racialism.
I don't know why this forum attracts so many race-obsessed people. Bizarre. I understand there's some free speech here but it can't be all. Pretty boring, every point that could ever be made on this has been made a hundredfold all over the internet.
zboy1 wrote:Of course race matters! Human beings are racialist, like it or not. It's just that some hide it better than others.
Woman are gold diggers at heart, so they will go after the race that is 'in power.' Otherwise you wouldn't see females refusing to marry outside of their races, or refusing to marry Black and Asian men.
"Matters" is actually ambiguous here, it matters to some of them because they want a foreigner, it matters to some others because they don't want a foreigner. So much overthinking in all of this. Like CE said, worthless data.
Adama wrote:There are lots of women supporting their men. There are even lots of women working middle class careers who are supporting sick husbands at home. Not every woman is a gold digger. That is a sad view of women and humanity. There are women who love money. Those are the kinds who seek out rich men to marry. Then there are women who actually love the man himself from her heart.

The good women are the women who love their men from their heart (the woman's heart). The evil women are the ones who men must jump through hoops for. These are the ones who conduct the wallet biopsies.
That's gold, no pun intended. Many guys think that's impossible.
I've never understood the 'it's about money' thing, that's just a small fringe segment.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?

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Adama
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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Adama » May 9th, 2017, 10:12 am

droid wrote: That's gold, no pun intended. Many guys think that's impossible.
I've never understood the 'it's about money' thing, that's just a small fringe segment.

Because they don't believe love is a real thing. Because love isn't real, they need a lure to get women. Something about them must stand above the others, because they've turned themselves into a commodity instead of a person, just like the women they get have also reduced themselves down to a commodity. In reality, these are just two people using each other, not loving each other.

Men also give women the upper hand over them in this way too. This is really saying that the man has nothing inherent within him that is valuable to women other than his lures.

It also marks no real individuality. Every other man also has a lure similar to that one, although they don't think they do. Lots of rich men. Lots of high status men. But somehow that distinguishes them? They've even deceived themselves in this way, thinking they are special and above the rest, when really there are tons of other men who use the same lures.

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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Eric » May 9th, 2017, 10:19 am

I feel like in general, a lot of things don't matter for women and men like they used to. At least in this generation. For example, it's commonly said by men in Kradmelder's generation that this generation is too emotional, particularly the guys, and everything's based on "feelings"....whereas it used to be more structured out of necessity. To an extent he's right, but that's just changing times. If societies changed - should we really hold onto a level of hardness that isn't necessary - that which will negatively impact our lives?
What I mean is, our emotions function to bond us to life and to others, to the extent we suppress or block or stifle them, our lives will be less vibrant and suffer. I also don't believe logic or rationality have come at the expense of expressing your emotions.

To get back to the point though,
I really don't think women and men overall care about race today as much.
Misery and happiness are only states of mind.

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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » May 9th, 2017, 11:30 am

droid wrote:
Adama wrote:You can see where someone's heart is by what comes out of their mouth, especially if it comes out consistently. Racism and racialism.
I don't know why this forum attracts so many race-obsessed people. Bizarre. I understand there's some free speech here but it can't be all. Pretty boring, every point that could ever be made on this has been made a hundredfold all over the internet.
Race is a very convenient proxy to which "bottom-dwellers" can attribute their personal failures. So of course it will be a topic for some who feel unfulfilled in their home countries.

The problem is these "bottom-dwellers" SHOULD be focusing on their women, their societal rot, and their personal development. That is asking too much for some when they can more easily blame their misery on "The Jews" and "the darkies."

Racialism is but the least refined form of collectivism. A collectivist does not have the means to identify or acknowledge his personal shortcomings. It must always be blamed on the other guy.

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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Zambales » May 9th, 2017, 11:49 am

The only race women care about begins with "rat". :)

Seriously, not all women are like that. Thankfully!

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Re: Does Race Matter for Women?

Post by Eric » May 9th, 2017, 1:38 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
droid wrote:
Adama wrote:You can see where someone's heart is by what comes out of their mouth, especially if it comes out consistently. Racism and racialism.
I don't know why this forum attracts so many race-obsessed people. Bizarre. I understand there's some free speech here but it can't be all. Pretty boring, every point that could ever be made on this has been made a hundredfold all over the internet.
Race is a very convenient proxy to which "bottom-dwellers" can attribute their personal failures. So of course it will be a topic for some who feel unfulfilled in their home countries.

The problem is these "bottom-dwellers" SHOULD be focusing on their women, their societal rot, and their personal development. That is asking too much for some when they can more easily blame their misery on "The Jews" and "the darkies."

Racialism is but the least refined form of collectivism. A collectivist does not have the means to identify or acknowledge his personal shortcomings. It must always be blamed on the other guy.

Actually, it is the fault of the Jews or whatever. Because we can't take back our society - our government's been hijacked from us. Obviously, we can't do anything about it - if we had a rebellion or something we'd get squashed and wiped out by a global police government. What do you expect us to do?


Obviously - no offense bro. This government's gave you a leg up (minorities) whether you realize or want to acknowledge that or not. Psychologically especially, you've been given props, encouragement and a room to come up in society - whereas whites have been psychologically hit constantly left and right. Anyways, when I talk about us I'm talking about all of us. We're in this together, man.
I'm noticing, either I'm completely going insane, but I'm noticing clear signs of mental illness in the society around me...it just gets worse. Especially in the very young women (aged 18)...they seem completely out of balance, man-hating, fidgety......just not balanced at all. There's something really wrong with the lot of them. They seem almost like complete lesbians.
It's really weird. We need to stop this racial bullshit and fix on the real enemy we commonly face,
which is a global governance.
Misery and happiness are only states of mind.

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