Approaching Women - Getting Signals vs No Signals

[Chad114]

The meat of my post was that in several western countries, even with experience and instinct, you can be still left with some second-guessing of their interest due to their interest not being as apparent AS COMPARED TO several other non-western countries for example.

Many of us here already know that in several other countries, the interest from the women is almost 100% apparent and you really have no second-guessing to approach.

That was my point. Therefore, you don't need more confidence or even need to rely on experience or gut instinct.

The post was catered more towards newbies. I have plenty of experience. Experience obviously can be wonderful, but it's not always needed.

Crude example, but an American guy stuck in a cubicle during the day, and playing PC games at night for years, no experience, could go to these other countries, walk around for a few days, have some girls interested in him (the non-working type), SHOW that in the form of very obvious smiling, basic flirting, waving, etc., that almost even a two year old would pick up on, and therefore he would of course go up to her. Verses if he went to Canada, France, Holland, Switzerland, etc.. A girl may be interested in him, but for some of the reasons I listed in the opening post, would not show it, or would not as apparently show it like the girls in the other lands, and he would certainly hesitate approaching. Even if his gut said "I think she might like me." He would still second-guess.

In my opinion, generally a guy stuck in a cubicle all day who then goes home to play video games every night will not exhibit qualities that women find attractive. He likely does not have varied interest, a fitness regimen , or a plan in life to get ahead. Women who are not from 3rd world countries (where being white or American is enough) will not want a man like that. Women dont want "average" men anywhere unless they are desperate to escape poverty.

That's all I was mentioning.

Overall, it just helps make things easier and flow better, when the female shows her interest more apparent.

One of the top reasons I've heard in regards to the female's holding back of their interest (mostly in many western countries), is that if they are "high quality", they know they can get all sorts of "high quality" men, so you have to prove how much you want them, how courageous you are by going up to them if when they don't show clear interest - even if they are interested, they would rather risk losing you if you are not courageous enough, and just wait for the other guy to come along who will approach. In other words, their interest in you particularly I suppose is not so serious.
There seems to be some truth to this, and also that innate biological thing of the courageous/bold man protecting the family.

Either way though, if you're the type who is up for the hoops to jump through, the games, to get the "quality girl", then fine.
Other guys prefer not to and instead, go to places where interest in them is more apparent, overall less time, money and energy is spent and they still hook up. Some people call them losers, cowards, lazy, impatient, whatever, but they still get action and are living life. Maybe in others eyes, not "high quality" action, but still, action. While some guys continue to go without shooting for the "high quality" or continue to deal with all sorts of games, stresses, financial loss, life loss, sexless nights, etc.

As you mentioned high quality men attract high quality women. Masculine men attract feminine women. Generally a feminine woman will not want to do the leg work because well...she's a women. You are the man do do the leg work but then afterwords you get to enjoy the spoils . A weak man will fear getting rejected and whine....well why would a quality (ie femine) women want to hook up with that?

Go to any Latin American country and ask a women what she wants to due on a date. ou and tell she will laugh at you and say "You are the man you are supposed to know. Men lead , women follow. Now Latin women sure as hell know how to flirt but flirting varies country to county IMO. Sometimes a matter of being able to pick up the cues which can be extremely subtle in a place like Japan or Singapore.



. When it comes down to it these American women are banging somebody. It's the top 20% of men (based on looks, status, manliness) that are f***ing these women. Now I'm all for men going abroad to get women, hell I do it . But the benefit is two fold. Once men start getting action abroad they begin to build a sort of inner confidence that stays with them when they return home.

[Ginger]

Deleted my post

[NorthAmericanguy]

Any guy who has a lot of experience with approaching women and traveling in different countries knows that a girl who is approachable gives off a completely different vibe than one that doesn't.

If a girl doesn't want to talk to you, even before you see her body language, you know that it's inappropriate. Their fears and creeped out emotions are in their vibes, which rubs off on you, make you feel it as well.

When you go to different countries, you can see this and feel it. Instincts tend to be right.

+1

[NorthAmericanguy]

I suppose this is a sort of rant (not sure where in the forum to put this, so here will do).

Here goes:

Sure, many bold guys can just go and approach any female, but for the other guys, I think things make a lot more sense in these other countries we talk about.

Naturally it makes a lot more sense that if you see a girl and she is outright smiling right at you, flirting, presenting so many signs of interest, that you know not only that it's safe to approach, but that she's also interested in you so any fears of possible rejection are much lowered, to non-existent.
So you go right up to her.

It's been said over and over, for men wherever in the world, they need to do the approach. Fine. Although some might like to not have to do the initial work, this does show to be a more or less universal truth.
Therefore, in line with this ideology, you have many guys in the US, Canada, Australia, parts of Europe for example tell you:
"Dude, grow a pair! You need to be going up to these girls more! That's why you're not succeeding here. What's wrong wussie? You can't approach a woman?"

I think for rest of the guys that are not super alpha male or just playing the numbers game, it's not an issue of not being able to approach women, but rather an issue of the females not showing interested signals from the beginning or in return, even when they actually are interested.

We probably already know cases, and I do myself, where later (and too late) it was found out the girl (such as in the US, Canada, etc) was actually interested but didn't want to show it!

One may ask, why would a woman not want to show interest? In some other countries, they just go with their natural instincts, show the interest and this therefore helps the guy along in knowing he can then approach. It's all so much more natural.
But in places, like many western places actually, the woman's reasoning for this sort of game can be many. I don't really know. Maybe it's a pride thing. They don't want to come off the pedestal. Maybe they want the man to prove their interest, or see if he is interested in them first. Maybe the girl doesn't want to come across as too loose.
Who knows. What I do know is that it is a sort of block to the whole flow.

As many here know already, you go to these other countries, the girl smiles at you, plays with her hair, giggles, just makes it so obvious she is interested. What guy then would hesitate to approach? Almost no guy. Not even the dorkiest, insecure guy.

You don't need to "grow a pair". Or need all this PUA confidence stuff.
It takes two to tango as they say. Well, a good deal of the problems for those guys who are single in some western lands is that the girls are fouling up their dance steps, or simply not dancing along at all, even at times when they want to!

Some might say, if you want something of higher value, you have to work harder to get it. Not really sure what to say about that one.

I'm sure we've heard all sorts of arguments.

Maybe the expat guys could have continued to work and work and work for their dream lady in their homelands, all the while continue to go without and possibly without completely in the end.
So instead, they left and in reality, are actually with nice women, maybe not their dream types, but at least they're out there being with something vs nothing.

Because we've also heard the arguments, you're not trying hard enough and you're just taking the easy road out. Fine, maybe it is easier (in ways, it should be easier), but that harder road could be more risky and have you facing going without and to a dead end.

Maybe it could be compared to being hungry and walking a quiet country road, right there, is a burger joint. You know it's not the best meal, but it's something. You could continue on the road thinking there must be some sort of house eventually where you could get a nice home cooked meal.
But you know in these present days and this area, that less and less people open their doors to strangers. You've been walking too long already and really can't afford risking more time. You could walk further, but high chances the house could be far, and high chances they won't be home or won't let you in. You could starve to death.
Weighing it all out, you have some who take the burger. It's something. Not really just settling, but weighing out the options, and you still get full enough and it doesn't taste so bad. Better than starving to death.

Possibly not the best analogy, but it shows some of the points.

I'm sure most of the guys had/have dreams of that right girl, their ideal type, but things in life just happened and it didn't go that way. Environment also played a role in shaping the outcomes (i.e. the rough US., etc. environment for some guys). They saw the reality in things and decided to take action and at least went for the burger.
There are obviously guys out there who have made it to the home cooked meal. Who knows why it worked for them, outside of just skill (many single and expat guys have skills too - so it's not just a skill thing).
There's a storm that has been raging in the U.S., Canada, and other western lands, maybe just some guys have been snagged up by it, victims, regardless of whether or not they had the skills, were good guys, etc.
It's near impossible to say why in a storm, some get hit and others don't, why the sun is in some spots and not in others. Or in a war, why some of the best soldiers die, and others don't. Some people regardless of their niceness, skill, general success, etc. simply get slammed, casualties of a storm, war, etc.

Some of those victims continue to lay down, while others have gotten up and out of the stormy area. While others remain, actually doing ok. Who really can figure it all out.

At the end of the day, I think every man has to do what works best for themselves and their own individual comfort level. So for me, throughout my life, I have relied on women approaching me simply because women chose who they want to be with anyway. Hell, even ho's have the power and final say by CHOOSING to work for a particular pimp..... All pimps can do is try to be the most appealing pimp so all the ho's will want to work for him, and him only, so I take the same concept to the regular world.


I can't stress this enough.... When a woman is interested in you (and she's single/or looking to get out of a current relationship), she will let you know in a very forward/direct way (ie. Oh, you have such a cute smile!, We should go out sometime!), but when a woman is disinterested, you simply don't exist, or you're immediately put in the friend zone. Either way, if you do invade a disinterested woman's space, she will give you the vibe that she's annoyed/uncomfortable that you're even talking to her in a romantic way and will always look for ways to cut the conversation short.

Sure, there are ways to "win over"/seduce a woman, and disinterested women occasionally give in and give men sex if they beg them long enough, or you're just unknowingly being used as a rebound guy, but common sense should be utilize to realize that "winning over" a woman does not happen nearly as often as it does in the movies (unless you're RICH!). And also, starting a relationship with a woman by begging her is not the best thing to do because who has respect for beggars?

I have no idea why it's taken me so long to figure things out, but I have actually had (and continue to have) success attracting women, but the reason why I'm unhappy with my "dating life" is due to the fact that I'm not attracting the high caliber women that I'm attracted to!




This is my dating history:

GF No.1 She chose me in high school because I was able to stand out from all the other men as a standout athlete. I could have married her and had kids with her, but I left her because I saw no future with her.

GF No.2 She chose me. How? She saw me reading in a bookstore on a Saturday night and thought I was interesting because I was the only male in a bookstore on a Saturday night when everybody else was out getting drunk. We stayed together for a year but I broke up with her.


And within the past year I attracted these kind of girls:

• 21ish white girl who works in a chain store as a cashier openly flirts with me. I decline her offers because she smokes, she poor, and she's the kind of white girl who only dates black guys. I just don't like those type of white girls.

• 28ish black girl who works as a hair stylist. She's aggressive and gives me her number though her friend and says she wants to go out with me. I decline and make up a story that I'm dating because she would get mad if I told her I don't date poor single moms with tattoos.

• 40ish black women hits on me in the street. I decline her offer because she looks like the Michelin man.

• 23ish white girl who is a hair stylist. She seeks me out and tries to engage in conversation. She's hot, but she's a fast, wild, party girl so I decline her offers because I don't party or drink. She would eat me alive and I have no qualms admitting I could not handle her.

• 24ish black girl who is a cashier. She hits on me dam near every time she sees me that I get annoyed by it. Why do I decline her offers? Because even though she has a nice body, I'm simply not attracted to her face in anyway shape or form. I mean, she's is really unattractive and I take pride that the women in my family are really pretty.

• 35ish mixed women openly hits on me when she sees me. Says I'm sexy...bla bla bla.. I decline her advances because she's fat and she's a smoker with brown teeth. uck!

• Another 24ish mixed women who is a cashier. Openly hits on me and hunts me down when she knows I'm in the store just to flirt. Well, this girl is pretty but she needs to loose about 20/30lbs because she's on the big side..... So I decline.




I could add about 2 more girls but I'm done... Anyway, at the end of the day I need to stop complaining because if I really wanted p***y I could get it. I'm just not getting the p***y that is surrounded by a quality woman so I need to move overseas and try my luck in places like France, Germany or Thailand where the women are slim, stylish and the women are generally more knowledgeable because here in American there is just too many poor fat girls.

[marklambo]

Many of us here already know that in several other countries, the interest from the women is almost 100% apparent and you really have no second-guessing to approach.

That was my point. Therefore, you don't need more confidence or even need to rely on experience or gut instinct.

Crude example, but an American guy stuck in a cubicle during the day, and playing PC games at night for years, no experience, could go to these other countries, walk around for a few days, have some girls interested in him (the non-working type), SHOW that in the form of very obvious smiling, basic flirting, waving, etc., that almost even a two year old would pick up on, and therefore he would of course go up to her. Verses if he went to Canada, France, Holland, Switzerland, etc.. A girl may be interested in him, but for some of the reasons I listed in the opening post, would not show it, or would not as apparently show it like the girls in the other lands, and he would certainly hesitate approaching. Even if his gut said "I think she might like me." He would still second-guess.

Overall, it just helps make things easier and flow better, when the female shows her interest more apparent.

This is great and right on the money! In some countries (like in South America, eastern Europe, Russia and the Philippines) the women MAKE THEIR INTEREST KNOWN to the guy very easily! These women actually FLIRT with men and smile and make eye contact with men. Now in other countries (like the US, Canada, Great Britain) the women DO NOT flirt with men. The women in these countries IGNORE MEN and don't even make eye contact with men!

It would be a HELL OF LOT EASIER to meet women if THEY MADE THEIR INTEREST KNOW TO MEN (like flirting). Of course, in the US, men feel they don't exist in the eyes of women because the women IGNORE men. This is not the best country to live in if your trying to meet women! lol

Reading your reply just keeps on validating why I should go to Europe in the Spring. I think this is the way things should be. If you have interest in someone, show it. I hate the mentality of american women that they play these stupid games by ignoring men, even if they are interested in them. It's just a stupid game and should be tossed out the window.

[Andrewww]

In my opinion, generally a guy stuck in a cubicle all day who then goes home to play video games every night will not exhibit qualities that women find attractive. He likely does not have varied interest, a fitness regimen , or a plan in life to get ahead. Women who are not from 3rd world countries (where being white or American is enough) will not want a man like that. Women dont want "average" men anywhere unless they are desperate to escape poverty.

As you mentioned high quality men attract high quality women. Masculine men attract feminine women. Generally a feminine woman will not want to do the leg work because well...she's a women. You are the man do do the leg work but then afterwords you get to enjoy the spoils . A weak man will fear getting rejected and whine....well why would a quality (ie femine) women want to hook up with that?

Go to any Latin American country and ask a women what she wants to due on a date. ou and tell she will laugh at you and say "You are the man you are supposed to know. Men lead , women follow. Now Latin women sure as hell know how to flirt but flirting varies country to county IMO. Sometimes a matter of being able to pick up the cues which can be extremely subtle in a place like Japan or Singapore.

When it comes down to it these American women are banging somebody. It's the top 20% of men (based on looks, status, manliness) that are f***ing these women. Now I'm all for men going abroad to get women, hell I do it . But the benefit is two fold. Once men start getting action abroad they begin to build a sort of inner confidence that stays with them when they return home.

Just wanted to point out some things from your post that don't correlate in real life.

1. In North America "average" women want "high quality" men -> unrealistic expectations is the norm. A lot of Eastern European guys that I know are average dudes in healthy relationships with average women.
2. The subject of this topic is that women don't show interest (even though they are interested) so when did this switch to "men should approach women" ? Men will approach women if they show interest period.
3. American women mistake confidence for acting like a jackass. Plenty of guys have confidence but somehow they are seen as low status because they act with modesty.
4. People who go abroad ALREADY have plenty of inner confidence. Leaving your home country takes courage and determination.
5. It's not a question of who American women are sleeping with, it's that they don't make good girlfriends or wives. Sex is not everything.

[Dragon]

It's not just a matter of signals, there is also timing.

With regards to attracting a girl, there are two things to contend with, pheromones and her brain (lots will probably laugh at the brain word )

A woman may act all flirtateous, because her body recognizes your virility at the biochemical level, BUT, you need to make her think that she is attracted to you, hence, you need correct timing.

Not all women are the same, some needs the timing to be correct first and foremost, then her subconscious and her body reacts, then she thinks "hey! I like this guy"

It's complicated, even as a woman, I just can't understand it sometimes. Maybe my antenna is half-broken or something...haha

Attraction is a force, it defies logic oftentimes, or defies common logic at least

I can remember a lot of instances my physical type approached me, but timing is waaayyyy off, or they fail to jingle my bell on the brain level. I have also experienced instances of someone walking by me, and it's like the air is charged with electricity, pure animal level appeal maybe, pheromones, but for a woman, that is not good enough.

It's complicated.

*Whispers* Psssst. Ginger. Those pheromones you smell that give you a jingle? That's actually just the smell of green ink from the money in a guy's wallet. Women can detect that kilometers away.

/runs away from imminent attack by Ginger.

[Ginger]

Deleted my post

[Dragon]

It's not just a matter of signals, there is also timing.

With regards to attracting a girl, there are two things to contend with, pheromones and her brain (lots will probably laugh at the brain word )

A woman may act all flirtateous, because her body recognizes your virility at the biochemical level, BUT, you need to make her think that she is attracted to you, hence, you need correct timing.

Not all women are the same, some needs the timing to be correct first and foremost, then her subconscious and her body reacts, then she thinks "hey! I like this guy"

It's complicated, even as a woman, I just can't understand it sometimes. Maybe my antenna is half-broken or something...haha

Attraction is a force, it defies logic oftentimes, or defies common logic at least

I can remember a lot of instances my physical type approached me, but timing is waaayyyy off, or they fail to jingle my bell on the brain level. I have also experienced instances of someone walking by me, and it's like the air is charged with electricity, pure animal level appeal maybe, pheromones, but for a woman, that is not good enough.

It's complicated.

*Whispers* Psssst. Ginger. Those pheromones you smell that give you a jingle? That's actually just the smell of green ink from the money in a guy's wallet. Women can detect that kilometers away.

/runs away from imminent attack by Ginger.

You do not have enough data to support that claim.

Please do not use the board just because I did not respond to your PM about getting to know me more outside of the forum.

That is very jerk-ish, douchebag-ish, but maybe I'm missing the humor in that sorry excuse of an insult.

This is exactly the reason why I discourage interacting with male members (other than those I already know in real life) outside of the forum, once they sense rejection or they do not get enough attention, they start flinging masked insults on the forum boards thinking they are sooooo smart that they can get away with it.

Please grow a pair.

And if that is really an attempt at humor and I'm just missing the 'fun' part on it, then I am sorry for being a bit barbaric and unfeminine with this response.



When a guy thinks a woman will accept/reject him solely for his monetary worth, it kinda says A LOT regarding how the guy sees himself. I find it amusing.

Whoa there sister. That's really quite a response. If I offended you, I apologize, but you shouldn't take a lot of things I say very seriously. In fact, 20-30% of my posts consists of stupid jokes/topics and me poking fun at Winston. Maybe it's because of cultural differences or a difference of perspective that caused that joke to not translate well. In my social circle, we joke about things like that all the time (with male and female friends) and often enter into much "worse" topics.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I feel rejected? From what? My main goal on this forum is to collect as much information as possible. It's one of the few places that I feel can give be a better respective on many things. Again, I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intention. Maybe I should lighten up on the offensive humor...