The characteristics and national soul of the various Mediterranean peoples

[Lucas88]

I love Mediterranean Europe. The Mediterranean basin is by far my favorite part of Europe with its pleasant climate, charming architecture, outgoing people, delicious cuisine, and supremely beautiful and musical languages.

The Mediterranean peoples with whom I have the greatest familiarity are Spaniards and Italians. I lived in Spain for a considerable period of time and also became acquainted with the sizeable Italian community in my city of residence. I've known some Portuguese people too and know a bit about their culture. I also encountered groups of French students while I was enrolled in immersive language school in Valencia and even lived with some for a brief while. I know much less about Greeks. My experience of Greek culture is limited to a family vacation to Cyprus when I was 17 but Cypriot culture might be somewhat different to mainland Greek culture.

What are the characteristics of the various Mediterranean peoples? How do their respective national souls differ?

I'd like to hear @publicduende's observations in particular. He's from a little town in Southern Italy and has met people from a lot of different nationalities and therefore knows a lot about Mediterranean culture.

Below are my own perceptions:

Italians - Friendly, highly sociable, expressive and histrionic. Quite extravagant and over the top in comparison to Spaniards. Prone to bragging and exaggeration. Even fascist philosopher Julius Evola wrote about this contrasting the stoic Roman character with the histrionic character of modern Italians. I don't know enough about Italy to identify regional differences of character although I've heard that Southern Italians are quite different from Northern Italians. My uncle married an Italian lady from the southernmost point of Italy's boot and she was histrionic as heck.

Spaniards - More reserved than Italians and a bit more serious too. Extremely assertive and prone to anger. The women are quite brash too.

Portuguese - Friendly and laid-back in comparison to Spaniards. My Peruvian ex-girlfriend moved to Portugal after living in Spain for about 5 years. She goes into great depth about the difference in friendliness and laid-backness between Portuguese and Spaniards.

French - Very sophisticated and intellectual but at the same time stuck-up divas.

Greeks - I have no idea. I remember publicduende saying that Greeks are gloomier and edgier than other Mediterraneans or something like that. Maybe he could be kind enough to elaborate.

[publicduende]

I love Mediterranean Europe. The Mediterranean basin is by far my favorite part of Europe with its pleasant climate, charming architecture, outgoing people, delicious cuisine, and supremely beautiful and musical languages.

The Mediterranean peoples with whom I have the greatest familiarity are Spaniards and Italians. I lived in Spain for a considerable period of time and also became acquainted with the sizeable Italian community in my city of residence. I've known some Portuguese people too and know a bit about their culture. I also encountered groups of French students while I was enrolled in immersive language school in Valencia and even lived with some for a brief while. I know much less about Greeks. My experience of Greek culture is limited to a family vacation to Cyprus when I was 17 but Cypriot culture might be somewhat different to mainland Greek culture.

What are the characteristics of the various Mediterranean peoples? How do their respective national souls differ?

I'd like to hear @publicduende's observations in particular. He's from a little town in Southern Italy and has met people from a lot of different nationalities and therefore knows a lot about Mediterranean culture.

Like I always said, generalising and reasoning by stereotypes can be dangerous and misleading...but also a lot ot fun!

Italians - Friendly, highly sociable, expressive and histrionic. Quite extravagant and over the top in comparison to Spaniards. Prone to bragging and exaggeration. Even fascist philosopher Julius Evola wrote about this contrasting the stoic Roman character with the histrionic character of modern Italians. I don't know enough about Italy to identify regional differences of character although I've heard that Southern Italians are quite different from Northern Italians. My uncle married an Italian lady from the southernmost point of Italy's boot and she was histrionic as heck.

That we Southerners are, in general, more extroverted, jovial, happy-go-lucky but also more approximate, opportunistic, prone to laziness and "moral wobbling", that's all true. It's not a stereotype, it's a fact. Once again, a lot depends on family upbringing and schooling. A Jesuit-educated scion of the upper class in Bari (Apulia, South), groomed to become heir to a large company, who travelled the worlds, speaks 4 languages and knows what he wants from life, won't be that different from his counterpart from Rome, or Milan, or Turin.

Equally, someone coming from a derelict dormitory town, with no high school diploma and no hope to find a decent job, will be at high risk of being recruited by a gang or the local syndicate (Mafia, Camorra, Nrandgheta, Sacra Corona, etc.) and spending their lives in and out of jail. This, regardless if he's from a bad part of Naples, Palermo, Genoa, or Milan.

It's nature and nurture. Those of us who have savoured the relative sophistication of the world around them, will tend to be similarly calmer, cooler, less extroverted and more perspective, if not introspective. Once again, before falling squarely into the booby traps of stereotype, it's better if one looks at those around them and judges them based on their unique traits, rather than what country they come from.

Spaniards - More reserved than Italians and a bit more serious too. Extremely assertive and prone to anger. The women are quite brash too.

Spaniards, a bit like the French. You can tell the typical Castellano (from Madrid) from the typical Andalusian (from Malaga) just the same way you can tell a Milanese from a Barese. Yet, lots of nature and nurture there, too. Plus let's not forget that Spain had a much stronger societal rift between the "tradition" (tied to strict Catholic morals and the "dark" elite that is pus Dei) and the "radical", as they had their cultural revolution 20 years after France and Britain.

You will still find a bedrock of upper class families who represent the establishment, often with ties to the Opus Dei, and tend to be extremely traditional, judgmental, boring, hypocritical. You can find those everywhere across Spain. They even have some of those families here in the Philippines!

And then there's the sons and daughters of that cultural revolution, the the "movida" people, those who lived in a daily orgy of nightlife, drugs and alternative (mostly leftwing-inspired) art and culture. Wherever they are from Spain, those are at the polar opposite of the first category. They might now be in their 50s and 60s and their kids probably act very differently from those Jesuit or, worse, Opus Dei educated ones.

Again, some of them might be overly serious and attached to their pragmatic, materialistic routines, some others might be all about new age spirituality and group love. Unlike Italy, Spain is a much more dynamic culture than, say, Italy or Germany. Harder than usual to even try and generalise, especially about the latest generations.

Portuguese - Friendly and laid-back in comparison to Spaniards. My Peruvian ex-girlfriend moved to Portugal after living in Spain for about 5 years. She goes into great depth about the difference in friendliness and laid-backness between Portuguese and Spaniards.

Don't know too many Portuguese people. Skin impression, they are quite similar to the Spaniards. They are a poorer, more modest bunch. Again, stiff upper lip is measured based on where they come from. People from smaller towns will always tend to be kinder and more genuinely curious about a stranger than those living in the big city.

My brother spent a year in Coimbra "the Florence of Portugal" as an exchange student. He lept laughing that Portuguese were the Southern Italians' poor cousins. I think he had a great time and a lot of praise. And then a his sister in law moved to Lisboa to work and married a local guy, had 2 kids with him. Then all of a sudden the guy turns into a sideral asshole, forces her into divorce and claims sole custody of the kids. A lega battle that lasted more than 4 years and deeply affacted my entire family. So, some rotten apples, like everywhere...

French - Very sophisticated and intellectual but at the same time stuck-up divas.

Again, I would like to make a distinction between urban French and rural French.

Greeks - I have no idea. I remember publicduende saying that Greeks are gloomier and edgier than other Mediterraneans or something like that. Maybe he could be kind enough to elaborate.

Greeks are, with the Serbs, the most impenetrable European people. Again, they have a history of strict fascist isolationism, plus wars with the Slavs and the Muslims. Enough for them to grow as naturally distant and distrustful. Again, many of them study abroad and they absorb a different cultural liquor. Those who hail from the island, yes, I would call them "highlanders". Very hard to understand, let alone make friends with them. I would like to say that I have ONE good Greek friend, of all those who passed me by, but I can't.

[publicduende]

I love Mediterranean Europe. The Mediterranean basin is by far my favorite part of Europe with its pleasant climate, charming architecture, outgoing people, delicious cuisine, and supremely beautiful and musical languages.

The Mediterranean peoples with whom I have the greatest familiarity are Spaniards and Italians. I lived in Spain for a considerable period of time and also became acquainted with the sizeable Italian community in my city of residence. I've known some Portuguese people too and know a bit about their culture. I also encountered groups of French students while I was enrolled in immersive language school in Valencia and even lived with some for a brief while. I know much less about Greeks. My experience of Greek culture is limited to a family vacation to Cyprus when I was 17 but Cypriot culture might be somewhat different to mainland Greek culture.

What are the characteristics of the various Mediterranean peoples? How do their respective national souls differ?

I'd like to hear @publicduende's observations in particular. He's from a little town in Southern Italy and has met people from a lot of different nationalities and therefore knows a lot about Mediterranean culture.

Like I always said, generalising and reasoning by stereotypes can be dangerous and misleading...but also a lot ot fun!

Italians - Friendly, highly sociable, expressive and histrionic. Quite extravagant and over the top in comparison to Spaniards. Prone to bragging and exaggeration. Even fascist philosopher Julius Evola wrote about this contrasting the stoic Roman character with the histrionic character of modern Italians. I don't know enough about Italy to identify regional differences of character although I've heard that Southern Italians are quite different from Northern Italians. My uncle married an Italian lady from the southernmost point of Italy's boot and she was histrionic as heck.

That we Southerners are, in general, more extroverted, jovial, happy-go-lucky but also more approximate, opportunistic, prone to laziness and "moral wobbling", that's all true. It's not a stereotype, it's a fact. Once again, a lot depends on family upbringing and schooling. A Jesuit-educated scion of the upper class in Bari (Apulia, South), groomed to become heir to a large company, who travelled the worlds, speaks 4 languages and knows what he wants from life, won't be that different from his counterpart from Rome, or Milan, or Turin.

Equally, someone coming from a derelict dormitory town, with no high school diploma and no hope to find a decent job, will be at high risk of being recruited by a gang or the local syndicate (Mafia, Camorra, Nrandgheta, Sacra Corona, etc.) and spending their lives in and out of jail. This, regardless if he's from a bad part of Naples, Palermo, Genoa, or Milan.

It's nature and nurture. Those of us who have savoured the relative sophistication of the world around them, will tend to be similarly calmer, cooler, less extroverted and more perspective, if not introspective. Once again, before falling squarely into the booby traps of stereotype, it's better if one looks at those around them and judges them based on their unique traits, rather than what country they come from.

Spaniards - More reserved than Italians and a bit more serious too. Extremely assertive and prone to anger. The women are quite brash too.

Spaniards, a bit like the French. You can tell the typical Castellano (from Madrid) from the typical Andalusian (from Malaga) just the same way you can tell a Milanese from a Barese. Yet, lots of nature and nurture there, too. Plus let's not forget that Spain had a much stronger societal rift between the "tradition" (tied to strict Catholic morals and the "dark" elite that is pus Dei) and the "radical", as they had their cultural revolution 20 years after France and Britain.

You will still find a bedrock of upper class families who represent the establishment, often with ties to the Opus Dei, and tend to be extremely traditional, judgmental, boring, hypocritical. You can find those everywhere across Spain. They even have some of those families here in the Philippines!

And then there's the sons and daughters of that cultural revolution, the the "movida" people, those who lived in a daily orgy of nightlife, drugs and alternative (mostly leftwing-inspired) art and culture. Wherever they are from Spain, those are at the polar opposite of the first category. They might now be in their 50s and 60s and their kids probably act very differently from those Jesuit or, worse, Opus Dei educated ones.

Again, some of them might be overly serious and attached to their pragmatic, materialistic routines, some others might be all about new age spirituality and group love. Unlike Italy, Spain is a much more dynamic culture than, say, Italy or Germany. Harder than usual to even try and generalise, especially about the latest generations.

Portuguese - Friendly and laid-back in comparison to Spaniards. My Peruvian ex-girlfriend moved to Portugal after living in Spain for about 5 years. She goes into great depth about the difference in friendliness and laid-backness between Portuguese and Spaniards.

Don't know too many Portuguese people. Skin impression, they are quite similar to the Spaniards. They are a poorer, more modest bunch. Again, stiff upper lip is measured based on where they come from. People from smaller towns will always tend to be kinder and more genuinely curious about a stranger than those living in the big city.

My brother spent a year in Coimbra "the Florence of Portugal" as an exchange student. He lept laughing that Portuguese were the Southern Italians' poor cousins. I think he had a great time and a lot of praise. And then a his sister in law moved to Lisboa to work and married a local guy, had 2 kids with him. Then all of a sudden the guy turns into a sideral asshole, forces her into divorce and claims sole custody of the kids. A legal battle that lasted more than 4 years and deeply affacted my entire family. So, some rotten apples, like everywhere...

French - Very sophisticated and intellectual but at the same time stuck-up divas.

Again, I would like to make a distinction between urban French and rural French.

Greeks - I have no idea. I remember publicduende saying that Greeks are gloomier and edgier than other Mediterraneans or something like that. Maybe he could be kind enough to elaborate.

Greeks are, with the Serbs, the most impenetrable European people. Again, they have a history of strict fascist isolationism, plus wars with the Slavs and the Muslims. Enough for them to grow as naturally distant and distrustful. Again, many of them study abroad and they absorb a different cultural liquor. Those who hail from the island, yes, I would call them "highlanders". Very hard to understand, let alone make friends with them. I would like to say that I have ONE good Greek friend, of all those who passed me by, but I can't.

[Lucas88]

Thank you for your informative reply, @ publicduende. It was exactly what I was looking for. You're definitely one of the best posters here.

You make a good point about the distinction between different social classes and political persuasions. It brings a whole new dimension to the task of stereotyping national characteristics. In Spain, I never interacted with those highly traditional families with ties to Opus Dei and whatnot, although I have encountered depictions of them in Latin American literature. I didn't hang around in those kind of social circles. Almost everybody who I knew on a personal level were either humble working-class Spaniards or Latin American immigrants. I suppose that the Spaniards who I tended to encounter were descendants of the "movida" people since they were mostly quite libertarian and somewhat egalitarian in their conception of the world, even if they knew little about the history of that cultural movement.

I also wonder if the different languages spoken in the Mediterranean world could have an influence on the psychology of their speakers. Italian, for example, is famously melodic and musical with a much more uplifting and joyful intonation than other Romance languages. Maybe this could contribute to the hypersociability and extraversion characteristic of the Italian people. Spanish (Iberian), on the other hand, has a relatively "flatter" intonation and is less melodic and more rhythmic than Italian (spoken like a machine gun rather than sung). Iberian Spanish is typically rough too. Maybe these linguistic qualities likewise make Spaniards come across as more serious and less affable than their Italian counterparts.

Anecdotally, different languages influence my own psyche. Whenever I'm in an Anglophone environment I tend to be more melancholic and unsociable whereas I become much more upbeat, sociable and verbose in Hispanophone environments and particularly with Latinos. I even become more prone to manic episodes.

Hey PD, just out of curiosity, do you know anything about the stereotypical characteristics of Sardinians? They're supposed to be a unique people with a more archaic Mediterranean genome due to their insular isolation and speak the most conservative Romance language.

What about Sicilians? Are they more or less the same as Southern Italians or do they have their own distinct culture? I know that they have their own language Sicilianu.

[publicduende]

Thank you for your informative reply, @ publicduende. It was exactly what I was looking for. You're definitely one of the best posters here.

You make a good point about the distinction between different social classes and political persuasions. It brings a whole new dimension to the task of stereotyping national characteristics. In Spain, I never interacted with those highly traditional families with ties to Opus Dei and whatnot, although I have encountered depictions of them in Latin American literature. I didn't hang around in those kind of social circles. Almost everybody who I knew on a personal level were either humble working-class Spaniards or Latin American immigrants. I suppose that the Spaniards who I tended to encounter were descendants of the "movida" people since they were mostly quite libertarian and somewhat egalitarian in their conception of the world, even if they knew little about the history of that cultural movement.

I also wonder if the different languages spoken in the Mediterranean world could have an influence on the psychology of their speakers. Italian, for example, is famously melodic and musical with a much more uplifting and joyful intonation than other Romance languages. Maybe this could contribute to the hypersociability and extraversion characteristic of the Italian people. Spanish (Iberian), on the other hand, has a relatively "flatter" intonation and is less melodic and more rhythmic than Italian (spoken like a machine gun rather than sung). Iberian Spanish is typically rough too. Maybe these linguistic qualities likewise make Spaniards come across as more serious and less affable than their Italian counterparts.

Anecdotally, different languages influence my own psyche. Whenever I'm in an Anglophone environment I tend to be more melancholic and unsociable whereas I become much more upbeat, sociable and verbose in Hispanophone environments and particularly with Latinos. I even become more prone to manic episodes.

Thanks @Lucas88. My posting time here strictly depends on how much free time I have. When I do, I am happy to contribute.

The cultural rift between the liberal, or libertarian, and the traditional Catholic is still a big one in Spain. You see it reflected very well in their national politics. They oscillate wildly between conservative governments and socialist governments, as a sign that there is still a lot of bipolarism in the voting population, yet neither has a final say. For the little I know, I think Spain will drift towards more liberal, globalist governments in the near future, unlike France, Italy, Germany and Austria, which have either been won by the right, or about to be.

Remember that, just like in the States, there is a massive shift in political agendas. The socialist and commies used to be the parties who would care more about the poor and disadvantaged, who would campaign for welfare and equal opportunities. Now it's the rightwing and conservative parties that, at least in theory, defend those agendas and are overwhelmingly felt closer to the people, while the liberals have become bosom buddies of the global industrial, banking and technology cartels.

I assume that, not having much of a network of connections in Spain, you would tend to meet "everyday people". While living in London as a postgrad student I had a Spanish roommate, a guy from one of these super-conservative, Opus Dei families from Navarra. One of the weirdest people I have ever met in my life, the living embodiment of what happens when someone with a strictly regimented life (poor guy had done all the schools, from kindergarden to PhD, with the Opus!) finally finds some freedom abroad and doesn't know who they are.

While I didn't have anything specifically against him, besides when my gf told me she caught him peeking through our bedroom door few times, I wasn't exactly excited to have him as a friend. We kept in touch via email for a couple of years after he left (he had moved to Sweden for his next doctoral assignment), then silence.

Consider that being a Catholic over in Europe is a form or belonging to a powerful network which gives and takes favours. I have no doubt, especially after meeting more and more people affiliated with the Opus Dei, that most of these high-power Catholic families are rotten to the core hypocrites, yet have to yield their faith and their charity routines as a sceptre of moral superiority. This happens all over Europe, but is particularly odious within certain Catholic-inspired groups: Opus Dei mainly, but also some other local ones, like Comunione e Liberazione (Communion and Liberation) in Italy.

About the relationship between how spoken languages influence the psychology of their speakers, I am not sure that is true. Consider that we have a lot of regional accents in Italy and the more "musical" accents are those from the North. Clearly those accents have been influenced by languages spoken by those who came in contact with people in those areas, whether by colonial rule or trading relationship. While I am not a linguist, it's pretty obvious to me that Northern italian accents sound more like French, Swiss and Austrian German, Ladin and other lost Romance languages. In the South, especially down in Sicily and Calabria, if you hear a local speak in strict dialect, you would think they're speaking Arabic.

About switching moods while speaking different languages, it actually happens to me, too, so you do have a point. My theory, though, is that when we speak a certain language, our brains automatically bring back past memories of us engaging in that language. Clearly, Spanish is linked to one of the most interesting and happiest times in your life. Perhaps this explains why speaking Spanish brings back those good memories and puts you in a good mood.

For me, it's when I have the rare opportunity to speak my (mangled, fading) Japanese. I used to have a Japanese gf when I was in London. She was cute and sex-crazy. I was a postgrad student and was still enjoying London, before I entered the corporate world and everything became grim and routinely. Every time I speak Japanese, I still feel an echo of the excitement of that time of mindless joy and discovery, even if I am not in London anymore, but in Osaka.

For my ex-wife from Colombia, though, speaking Spanish means reminiscing her time in Medellin, which she has never been overly fond of. She learned Italian pretty quickly and had a chance to use it to speak to some of her company clients in Florence. She once came back saying that her clients said they liked talking to her in Italian because, besides avoiding the hassle of expressing themselves in a tentative English, they felt a certain "joy" and "eagerness" in the way she talked. She was happy to speak Italian to me and especially to my family, so she considered the opportunity to speak it as a particularly welcome one.

Hey PD, just out of curiosity, do you know anything about the stereotypical characteristics of Sardinians? They're supposed to be a unique people with a more archaic Mediterranean genome due to their insular isolation and speak the most conservative Romance language.

What about Sicilians? Are they more or less the same as Southern Italians or do they have their own distinct culture? I know that they have their own language Sicilianu.

Sicilians are quintessential Southern Italians, so there is not much to say, besides what you already know about Italian cultural (regional) stereotypes.

Sardinians, on the other hand, are a different matter. They are to the Italians what the Basques are to Spaniards. A relatively isolated people who have strong traces of their own insular, autoctone culture. In their past, they had more Catalan influences than Italians. Some scholars even claim that they are the closest descendants of the original Phoenicians.

Compared to the Sicilians, yes, they are more insular, so naturally distrustful of strangers, strong-minded and stubborn. Of course these traits now are a lot mellower and they do depend on their personality, upbringing and education. Again, not to always fall into the anecdotal, but one of my best friends from the London times was a Sardinian guy called Daniel. He was one of my college pals and "default roommate": I lived with him for several years, in 3 different places around London. He was from Sardinia but not the typical Sardinian. His dad has spent years working in Germany and semi-retired in Sardinia with quite a bit of money, so he gave his son relatively unusual experiences, like studying in the US for 2 years, and then doing his college years at King's.

For as well as I know him, I can't say there was anything I could ascribe to him "being Sardinian". He was relatively well-educated and wordly, so definitely not insular. Again, nature and nurture.

[Lucas88]

About the relationship between how spoken languages influence the psychology of their speakers, I am not sure that is true. Consider that we have a lot of regional accents in Italy and the more "musical" accents are those from the North. Clearly those accents have been influenced by languages spoken by those who came in contact with people in those areas, whether by colonial rule or trading relationship. While I am not a linguist, it's pretty obvious to me that Northern italian accents sound more like French, Swiss and Austrian German, Ladin and other lost Romance languages. In the South, especially down in Sicily and Calabria, if you hear a local speak in strict dialect, you would think they're speaking Arabic.

About switching moods while speaking different languages, it actually happens to me, too, so you do have a point. My theory, though, is that when we speak a certain language, our brains automatically bring back past memories of us engaging in that language. Clearly, Spanish is linked to one of the most interesting and happiest times in your life. Perhaps this explains why speaking Spanish brings back those good memories and puts you in a good mood.

For me, it's when I have the rare opportunity to speak my (mangled, fading) Japanese. I used to have a Japanese gf when I was in London. She was cute and sex-crazy. I was a postgrad student and was still enjoying London, before I entered the corporate world and everything became grim and routinely. Every time I speak Japanese, I still feel an echo of the excitement of that time of mindless joy and discovery, even if I am not in London anymore, but in Osaka.

For my ex-wife from Colombia, though, speaking Spanish means reminiscing her time in Medellin, which she has never been overly fond of. She learned Italian pretty quickly and had a chance to use it to speak to some of her company clients in Florence. She once came back saying that her clients said they liked talking to her in Italian because, besides avoiding the hassle of expressing themselves in a tentative English, they felt a certain "joy" and "eagerness" in the way she talked. She was happy to speak Italian to me and especially to my family, so she considered the opportunity to speak it as a particularly welcome one.

I took a look at some Southern accents of Italian such as the Napolitano and Barese ones and, to be honest, I still found them a bit more melodic and musical than, say, the Castellano of the Iberian peninsula, even if those Southern accents don't sound as musical as the Italian of Tuscany, for example. It's all a matter of degrees. To me who is accustomed to hearing Castellano on a daily basis, the Southern Italian dialects still sound somewhat more joyous and extroverted than the typical speech of somebody from Madrid with its relatively flatter intonation and air of seriousness. I still find the rougher Italian accents a joy to listen to compared to most other languages.

While I have indeed had much better experiences in the Spanish-speaking world, I don't think that it's the core reason why I prefer speaking Spanish. I'm very sensitive to aesthetics and simply love the phonological qualities of some languages while hating those of others.

In my case, I hate the sound of British English – my own native language. I find many of the phonemes of the language ugly and malformed and the language's intonation patterns and other phonological qualities to be largely dull, passionless and melancholic. In fact, I find most varieties of British English so disgusting that I actively avoid the language and mostly watch media either in American English (which sounds relatively more upbeat and joyous than British English) or Spanish. Obviously, as a native speaker, I have to speak English with my monolingual family and a few close friends, but I never derive joy from the language itself and find speaking it a chore. British English simply doesn't sit well with me aesthetically.

I myself regard languages as similar to genres of music. Certain patterns of sound produce certain feelings and emotions and appeal to certain types of people but those same patterns of sound might disturb or repulse other types of people. Just like some people prefer R&B or Dance while others prefer Rock or Heavy Metal, some people prefer the aesthetics of the likes of Spanish and Italian over, say, those of English or German.

Personally, whenever I'm abroad (which for me almost always means Spain or Latin America), I adopt Spanish as my sole language in all aspects of life. I completely cut all ties with English barring the occasional phonecall to my family and refuse to speak it with anybody since it only causes me displeasure and I don't want to be associated with the UK or its culture in any way. In that regard, I'm probably not that different from your Colombian ex-wife, albeit a more extreme version. I sometimes come across L2 speakers wanting to speak or practice English with the native speaker once my nationality has been revealed, but I outright refuse to associate with such people because I feel absolutely no connection to my birth culture, hate the sound of my native language and regard such advances as nothing more than a nuisance. My Latino friends sometimes tell me that they've never heard me speak English even once in years of knowing me and that they forget that I'm a gringo.

I admit that I'm somewhat judgmental and judge people by what language they speak and what culture they come from. But that is simply because from an aesthetic standpoint I love certain languages and cultures but at the same time absolutely detest others.

[publicduende]

I took a look at some Southern accents of Italian such as the Napolitano and Barese ones and, to be honest, I still found them a bit more melodic and musical than, say, the Castellano of the Iberian peninsula, even if those Southern accents don't sound as musical as the Italian of Tuscany, for example. It's all a matter of degrees. To me who is accustomed to hearing Castellano on a daily basis, the Southern Italian dialects still sound somewhat more joyous and extroverted than the typical speech of somebody from Madrid with its relatively flatter intonation and air of seriousness. I still find the rougher Italian accents a joy to listen to compared to most other languages.

While I have indeed had much better experiences in the Spanish-speaking world, I don't think that it's the core reason why I prefer speaking Spanish. I'm very sensitive to aesthetics and simply love the phonological qualities of some languages while hating those of others.

In my case, I hate the sound of British English – my own native language. I find many of the phonemes of the language ugly and malformed and the language's intonation patterns and other phonological qualities to be largely dull, passionless and melancholic. In fact, I find most varieties of British English so disgusting that I actively avoid the language and mostly watch media either in American English (which sounds relatively more upbeat and joyous than British English) or Spanish. Obviously, as a native speaker, I have to speak English with my monolingual family and a few close friends, but I never derive joy from the language itself and find speaking it a chore. British English simply doesn't sit well with me aesthetically.

I myself regard languages as similar to genres of music. Certain patterns of sound produce certain feelings and emotions and appeal to certain types of people but those same patterns of sound might disturb or repulse other types of people. Just like some people prefer R&B or Dance while others prefer Rock or Heavy Metal, some people prefer the aesthetics of the likes of Spanish and Italian over, say, those of English or German.

Personally, whenever I'm abroad (which for me almost always means Spain or Latin America), I adopt Spanish as my sole language in all aspects of life. I completely cut all ties with English barring the occasional phonecall to my family and refuse to speak it with anybody since it only causes me displeasure and I don't want to be associated with the UK or its culture in any way. In that regard, I'm probably not that different from your Colombian ex-wife, albeit a more extreme version. I sometimes come across L2 speakers wanting to speak or practice English with the native speaker once my nationality has been revealed, but I outright refuse to associate with such people because I feel absolutely no connection to my birth culture, hate the sound of my native language and regard such advances as nothing more than a nuisance. My Latino friends sometimes tell me that they've never heard me speak English even once in years of knowing me and that they forget that I'm a gringo.

I admit that I'm somewhat judgmental and judge people by what language they speak and what culture they come from. But that is simply because from an aesthetic standpoint I love certain languages and cultures but at the same time absolutely detest others.

You're an interesting case, Lucas. You are the first Brit I ever met who has this kind of visceral antipathy towards his motherland. You mention you dislike not only the language but the people, their habits and behaviours, even your own family. When casually asked, most people would mayhbe point at the shitty weather and the rising cost of living and stop there.

Winston, who believes in past lives and reincarnation, might say you were a Spaniard in multiple past lives

Have you thought about moving to Spain, Italy, or even somewhere in Latin America, instead of travelling and being back to Britain? If you are financially independent, e.g. you have an online job, you might pull that off with relative ease.

[Lucas88]

You're an interesting case, Lucas. You are the first Brit I ever met who has this kind of visceral antipathy towards his motherland. You mention you dislike not only the language but the people, their habits and behaviours, even your own family. When casually asked, most people would mayhbe point at the shitty weather and the rising cost of living and stop there.

Winston, who believes in past lives and reincarnation, might say you were a Spaniard in multiple past lives

Have you thought about moving to Spain, Italy, or even somewhere in Latin America, instead of travelling and being back to Britain? If you are financially independent, e.g. you have an online job, you might pull that off with relative ease.

Yes! I'm a very strange case indeed! I've known British expats who complain about the cold and rainy British weather, the shitty food and certain material and economic aspects of the UK but very few actually dislike British culture, the language or being British. Most of them are more than content to live in their own little pockets of British culture on the Costa Brava and under the Mediterranean sun. Me, on the other hand, I feel intense aversion to everything British, don't get along with British people, and have my own identity issues because of such total incompatibility with my own ethnicity and birth culture. I think that I'm definitely one of the most extreme cases here on HA!

I'm Irish on my mother's side. I'm not a full-blooded Anglo.

I don't dislike my own family though. There are about a handful of people in my family who I get along with and make an effort to keep in touch with. Then there is my childhood friend @Pixel--Dude. Apart from those, I don't have anybody else here.

I believe in reincarnation too and suspect that I've simply incarnated into a culture that doesn't suit my own soul type, hence my absolute aversion towards my own birth culture and my passionate love for Latin culture. That was indeed a perception that I had when I took Ayahuasca and, in the out-of-body deep-trance state, caught glimpses of what seemed to be past lives. I've always felt an inexplicable connection with Renaissance Italy and the Spanish Empire.

I actually used to stay in Spain or Latin America for 6 months at a time or sometimes even longer. Then I'd come back to the UK to save up some more money and then repeat the process again. I was never willing to do shitty work like working as an English teacher for a meager amount of pesos (such line of work wouldn't suit me anyway due to my own virulent Anglophobia ). So I chose to alternate between my HA locations and the UK every 6 months or so.

The only reason why I'm in the UK right now is because of certain health problems and the medical treatment that I'm receiving. Once fully recovered, I intend to leave this place and get back on the horse!!!

I'm actually looking into the topic of online work right now. I'm interested in researching the best skills to learn for online work today in 2023. Online work would be ideal for me. Not only would it allow me to live wherever I want (in my case, in a much more affordable part of the world) but it would also mean that I wouldn't have to deal with other people in person, an ideal arrangement for a natural introvert like me. I'm a nice friendly person but I find dealing with people mega exhausting. So yeah, I'm seriously interested in taking up online work!