I changed my language focus

[MrMan]

If I were @Winston, I'd kick yick off the forum before I kicked Spencer off.

I am trying to think who on the forum has enough experience with hearing Chinese-style broken English to actually generate Spencer's sentences, and Winston is one of the people I know who has the 'skill'.

[yick]

Who is clueless. I did not say most English words came from Latin. That would be a ridiculous assertion.

I pointed out that a video I linked to said 29% of words came from Latin. There was a higher percentage from French. You posted it yourself. I don't know if that number is right or not. But 29% is not 'most English words'. If you count Latin words that came in through French... maybe... maybe not. I don't know.

You're clueless

A linguistics major but unable to tell the difference between a loan word and a derivative.

I posted a link to a video that said it was 29%. I posted a website with a non-exhaustive list of words that came into Latin through English. I don't know the percentages. I suppose you could sit around with a dictionary and count, but etymologists do not have exhaustive information either.

There was a 100 words and I tried being generous and accept there might be 200 words but it isn't a 'significant number of words' when the average educated English speaker knows up to about 20000 words. Your argument is ridiculous.

100 words is not 'very few', even if the video is overstated.

It is very few, it is exactly that. Do the maths of 100 into 20000 - and the answer is - a miniscule number which would be correct to describe as 'very few words'

I would imagine those numbers are way too long, but if you are interested, you can research it yourself. But 100 words is not 'very few' like you said, especially if many of them fall into the 'basic English' category.

Average educated person knows around 20000 words... 0.005% of their vocabulary, that's very few words.

But how much of the population were made up of 'Monks, priests and scholars' not even 1% of the population. A bit more than that from what I've read, but these were the literate portion of the population that preserved learning and many of the thought leaders discussed intellectual ideas in Latin.

Erm nope, and even if there was something more than 1% then they weren't conversing in Latin in their every day lives, Latin hadn't been a working language in the British Isles since the Romans and there was no English in the British Isles during Roman rule.

I read that after I posted about Latin. But look at the quote. The etymologist says it came from both. How could they say it came in from one way or another? Even if they had the earliest quote in English saying it came from French or Latin, that would not prove there was no earlier usage, a problem with etymology.

Jesus wept! let me make it simple...

Latin-French-English

I did not say it obviously came from French. I wrote 'if it obviously came from French....'

It did come from French - a 'lingustics major' who can't differentiate between a loan word and a derivative doesn't have much stake regards an opinion.

Because you are the one who did the blabbering.

Who started this? Me or you?

You said very few words came in from Latin.

I said very few English words came DIRECTLY from Latin - you thick.

I showed you evidence to the contrary. You start throwing out straw man arguments and insulting my education. I never said words did not come in through French. I never said Latin words came in through Roman contact pre-Anglo-Saxon (though I would expect a few could have survived).

You showed me crappy sources from youtube - not sources at all.

I respectfully disagreed with your assertions. showed two sources. One that had about 100 words. The other that claimed 29% of words came from Latin and a larger portion from French. Either one is evidence against your assertion that very few words came into English from Latin.

Like I said, you are disingenuous and no wonder @Contrarian Expatriate ripped you a new arsehole time and time again - I said there were very few English words that came directly from Latin - obviously there are Latin derivatives from French which is why French English and Spanish have a lot of similarities.

I did not say I know nothing about the topic. I'm not a specialist in that area, but I know a little about it. You talk about being disingenous. I never said I knew nothing about it.

You definitely know so little as not to comment on it - stick to talking about your wifes virginity.

Maybe you should look up 'few' in the English dictionary.

0.005% would be classed as few, yes or no?

You were wrong. I pointed it out respectfully, and you started insulting

Except I am not, not only do you know nothing about linguistics but your maths is skew-whiff also.

I pointed out you were wrong about something in a respectful manner. Maybe it bruised your ego. You didn't like it so you insult, like you did again.

No, it's your utter persona here, a snidey little passive aggressive woman - that's what you are and you don't like being called out on it.

You are just being rude and making yourself look bad.

Whereas your ignorance on a subject you know nothing about is making you look bad.

Try to spin it where you aren't wrong. Hundreds of words, many of them core words in the language are not 'very few.' Why insult people over such things? Is your ego that sensitive?

HUNDRED - A HUNDRED WORDS -

Why am I insulting you, because you are a snidey little passive aggressive and you get called out on it a lot. Using your shield of pseudo Christianity to be a jerk.

Being rude and insulting is just you making yourself look bad. Be nice.

Being a passive aggressive jerk isn't being nice - why don't you be nice and debate respectfully and I will be nice back.

The percentage of Latin words might be 29% if you include a lot of technical terms. It is probably a lot higher than the 100 words. Neither is 'very few.'

The 'technical' terms will be loan words from Latin - not actual English words - Jesus Christ - can you not differentiate between a loan word and a derivative?

Your point has little or nothing to do with my post. I was pointing out that Anglo-Saxon existed (or whatever they called it) prior to their conquest of English. I did not say whether there was significant contact between the two languages before the Celtic groups hired the Saxons after the Romans left.

It did not - before the Angles and the Jutes came - old English did not exist - the languages of the isles was a version of what is modern day Welsh - English came to the British Isles at around 500 AD which was around 500 years before the Norman Conquest of England - what did exist was a version of Frisian from nautical settler/farmers around East Anglia and Essex - and they came long after the Romans left Britannia.

[yick]

If I were @Winston, I'd kick yick off the forum before I kicked Spencer off.

Oh you would? But keep a boring bastard like you on?

[Tsar]

If I were @Winston, I'd kick yick off the forum before I kicked Spencer off.

I am trying to think who on the forum has enough experience with hearing Chinese-style broken English to actually generate Spencer's sentences, and Winston is one of the people I know who has the 'skill'.

Why would Winston have a troll account on his own forum and reply to it if the troll account didn't add anything of value? All the posts that Winston makes are intelligent or well written.

[Spencer]

Yick you are sick

every debate end up your personal attacking on other aborder even on wiseton last time only few weeks ago

are you lonely and bitter strand in ugly apartment in dreary pollute infested china town as elderman who only fun is live on forum and pretend be better than other poster

if you so smart and so great why in yr older age you can only be lo pay english instructor in land that never ever accept you equal to chinaman and may spit you out w nothing when they not need you anymore

it so sad to see man like you think he so great cus can sling muds at other poster and talk down from hi throne egomania when realty is by world standard you not even smal potato and now you become old

so now time be humble like wiseton and if mr man right this time jus accept you not always right and take back adhomo insultngs on mr man

Stop bicker stop mean names then we can be gentle and kind to you for uplifting you in hard times and embrace you as bro under wiseton tutlage

[yick]

Yick you are sick

every debate end up your personal attacking on other aborder even on wiseton last time only few weeks ago

are you lonely and bitter strand in ugly apartment in dreary pollute infested china town as elderman who only fun is live on forum and pretend be better than other poster

if you so smart and so great why in yr older age you can only be lo pay english instructor in land that never ever accept you equal to chinaman and may spit you out w nothing when they not need you anymore

it so sad to see man like you think he so great cus can sling muds at other poster and talk down from hi throne egomania when realty is by world standard you not even smal potato and now you become old

so now time be humble like wiseton and if mr man right this time jus accept you not always right and take back adhomo insultngs on mr man

Stop bicker stop mean names then we can be gentle and kind to you for uplifting you in hard times and embrace you as bro under wiseton tutlage

@Spencer you are a brain dead imbecile and an utter utter cunt that needs to be banned ASAP

@Winston you said you would ban this cunt if he didn't stop posting unintelligble gibberish - isn't it about time you got rid of this oxygen thief on a permanent basis.

[Tsar]

Yick you are sick

every debate end up your personal attacking on other aborder even on wiseton last time only few weeks ago

are you lonely and bitter strand in ugly apartment in dreary pollute infested china town as elderman who only fun is live on forum and pretend be better than other poster

if you so smart and so great why in yr older age you can only be lo pay english instructor in land that never ever accept you equal to chinaman and may spit you out w nothing when they not need you anymore

it so sad to see man like you think he so great cus can sling muds at other poster and talk down from hi throne egomania when realty is by world standard you not even smal potato and now you become old

so now time be humble like wiseton and if mr man right this time jus accept you not always right and take back adhomo insultngs on mr man

Stop bicker stop mean names then we can be gentle and kind to you for uplifting you in hard times and embrace you as bro under wiseton tutlage

This is the real reason Yick is angry. He can't eat rat meat at the moment.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... virus.html

[MrMan]

Who is clueless. I did not say most English words came from Latin. That would be a ridiculous assertion.

I pointed out that a video I linked to said 29% of words came from Latin. There was a higher percentage from French. You posted it yourself. I don't know if that number is right or not. But 29% is not 'most English words'. If you count Latin words that came in through French... maybe... maybe not. I don't know.

You're clueless

A linguistics major but unable to tell the difference between a loan word and a derivative.

Not sure what you are talking about. Loan words have derivations, too.

I posted a link to a video that said it was 29%. I posted a website with a non-exhaustive list of words that came into Latin through English. I don't know the percentages. I suppose you could sit around with a dictionary and count, but etymologists do not have exhaustive information either.

There was a 100 words and I tried being generous and accept there might be 200 words but it isn't a 'significant number of words' when the average educated English speaker knows up to about 20000 words. Your argument is ridiculous.

100 words is more than 'very few' which is what I was responding to. There are many more words derived from Latin if you go into slightly technical vocabulary.

If you want to argue against a strawman, start another username and argue with yourself on that thread.

100 words is not 'very few', even if the video is overstated.

It is very few, it is exactly that. Do the maths of 100 into 20000 - and the answer is - a miniscule number which would be correct to describe as 'very few words'

Three is 'very few.' One hundred commonly used words, many of which are in the 'basic English' category are not.

If you had a teenage son who said he was going to have 'very few' people over to the house while you are away and then had 100 kids in a house party, and defended himself that saying compared to 7 billion, 100 is 'very few'.. how would you like that? Small percentage is not the same as few.

I would imagine those numbers are way too long, but if you are interested, you can research it yourself. But 100 words is not 'very few' like you said, especially if many of them fall into the 'basic English' category.

Average educated person knows around 20000 words... 0.005% of their vocabulary, that's very few words.

'Few' is not a proportion.

But how much of the population were made up of 'Monks, priests and scholars' not even 1% of the population. A bit more than that from what I've read, but these were the literate portion of the population that preserved learning and many of the thought leaders discussed intellectual ideas in Latin.

Erm nope, and even if there was something more than 1% then they weren't conversing in Latin in their every day lives, Latin hadn't been a working language in the British Isles since the Romans and there was no English in the British Isles during Roman rule.

There was a paper on it that I looked up briefly that put it at between 1 and 2%, but I wasn't clear which portion of the clergy-monk-nun population it was in. That could have been a subset. It also depends on the time period. There was no Control-F feature, and I realized I was wasting my time looking that stuff up.

The literate portion of the population was small at that time. Monks preserved the language in books. Academics who discussed philosophical and scientific issues used Latin until a few centuries ago. Newton wrote in Latin. So words for academic topics could come in through Latin as well.

Here is another page that says that 60% of English vocabulary derives from Latin:
http://www.enhancemyvocabulary.com/word ... latin.html

That seems to fit with the video that claimed that 29% came in through Latin and just over 30% through French-- assuming the French words that came in were Latin and not Celtic or Frankish in origin.

http://www.enhancemyvocabulary.com/word ... latin.html

Also, here is a quote from a Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_l ... lish#Latin[/url] article which cites sources. You can look up the citations if you wish.

Word origins
A computerized survey of about 80,000 words in the old Shorter Oxford Dictionary (3rd ed.) was published in Ordered Profusion by Thomas Finkenstaedt and Dieter Wolff (1973)[3] that estimated the origin of English words as follows:

French: 28.30%
Latin, including modern scientific and technical Latin: 28.24%
Germanic languages – inherited from Old English, from Proto-Germanic, or a more recent borrowing from a Germanic language such as Old Norse; does not include Germanic words borrowed from a Romance language, i.e., coming from the Germanic element in French, Latin or other Romance languages: 25%
Greek: 5.32%
No etymology given: 4.04%
Derived from proper names: 3.28%
All other languages: less than 1%
A survey by Joseph M. Williams in Origins of the English Language of 10,000 words taken from several thousand business letters gave this set of statistics:[4]

French (langue d'oïl): 41%
"Native" English: 33%
Latin: 15%
Old Norse: 5%
Dutch: 1%
Other: 5%[5]

Hmmm, 28% or 15%. It suppose on how you count them, but not 'very few.'

If you would disagree politely without insulting people, you wouldn't make yourself look bad. Have you presented any evidence at all for your position, btw? You make assertions, move the goalpost, and insult.

It did come from French - a 'lingustics major' who can't differentiate between a loan word and a derivative doesn't have much stake regards an opinion.

Loan words have derivations and words in a language can derive from loan words.

You said very few words came in from Latin.

I said very few English words came DIRECTLY from Latin - you thick.

In context, it is pretty clear that is what we were talking about.

I showed you evidence to the contrary. You start throwing out straw man arguments and insulting my education. I never said words did not come in through French. I never said Latin words came in through Roman contact pre-Anglo-Saxon (though I would expect a few could have survived).

You showed me crappy sources from youtube - not sources at all.

Maybe so, but the 'crappy sources' got it from somewhere. The Wikipedia article claims the sources researched the Oxford dictionary. See above.

No, it's your utter persona here, a snidey little passive aggressive woman - that's what you are and you don't like being called out on it.

Your coming off as a child in this thread.

You are just being rude and making yourself look bad.

Whereas your ignorance on a subject you know nothing about is making you look bad.

References I look up constantly confirm what I am saying. You are the one who decided to start throwing insults around. Why don't you make a conscious decision to disagree like an adult.

Why am I insulting you, because you are a snidey little passive aggressive and you get called out on it a lot. Using your shield of pseudo Christianity to be a jerk.

You should examine your own self when you consider why you insult people who disagree with you.

Being rude and insulting is just you making yourself look bad. Be nice.

Being a passive aggressive jerk isn't being nice - why don't you be nice and debate respectfully and I will be nice back.

Okay, let's agree to do so. I am direct. I don't see any 'passive aggressive' here on my end.

The percentage of Latin words might be 29% if you include a lot of technical terms. It is probably a lot higher than the 100 words. Neither is 'very few.'

The 'technical' terms will be loan words from Latin - not actual English words - Jesus Christ - can you not differentiate between a loan word and a derivative? A quick search of the etymology of 'aggressive' seems to indicate it came in directly from Latin.

It did not - before the Angles and the Jutes came - old English did not exist - the languages of the isles was a version of what is modern day Welsh - English came to the British Isles at around 500 AD which was around 500 years before the Norman Conquest of England - what did exist was a version of Frisian from nautical settler/farmers around East Anglia and Essex - and they came long after the Romans left Britannia.

The Angles and Saxons had a language before they invaded the kingdoms of what is now England. Then, a few hundred years later, it was still mutually intelligible with dialects of Saxon on the mainland. This enabled the Anglo-Saxon mission.

[MrMan]

Yick you are sick

every debate end up your personal attacking on other aborder even on wiseton last time only few weeks ago

are you lonely and bitter strand in ugly apartment in dreary pollute infested china town as elderman who only fun is live on forum and pretend be better than other poster

if you so smart and so great why in yr older age you can only be lo pay english instructor in land that never ever accept you equal to chinaman and may spit you out w nothing when they not need you anymore

it so sad to see man like you think he so great cus can sling muds at other poster and talk down from hi throne egomania when realty is by world standard you not even smal potato and now you become old

so now time be humble like wiseton and if mr man right this time jus accept you not always right and take back adhomo insultngs on mr man

Stop bicker stop mean names then we can be gentle and kind to you for uplifting you in hard times and embrace you as bro under wiseton tutlage

@Spencer you are a brain dead imbecile and an utter utter cunt that needs to be banned ASAP

@Winston you said you would ban this cunt if he didn't stop posting unintelligble gibberish - isn't it about time you got rid of this oxygen thief on a permanent basis.

Just ignore him. You do not have to read his posts.

[MrMan]

@yick
If you want to accept an olive branch of having civil conversation, I'd be curious to know what you did with your studies in Linguistics.

Neither of my parents graduated college. I knew I wanted a degree and tried to study something interesting. Part-way through, one of my advisors in the Linguistics department mentioned he had taught English in South Korea. Teaching English abroad sounded interested. I ended up doing that, and I found a job in South Korea (though I was also looking into Japan.) After that I taught in Indonesia. I did a bit of sales in college and for a while before heading off to South Korea, too. After many years, I went back to graduate school in a completely different field.

As an undergrad, I and another student met with another professor about doing research as a masters student. I applied, but I do not think he quite explained to the stuff the part about getting free tuition and just a little to live on, etc. So I did not realize that part. I applied as a resident hall assistant for an assistantship and got turned down. Looking back, I probably could have continued on for a masters. I would have had to have learned Greek and Old Church Slavonic or Gothic. Maybe I could have built on the Classical Armenian and done research that way. I ended up working abroad.

I used to joke that with a degree in Linguistics I could make linguini at Red Lobster, but I would still have needed some extra training.

What did you do career-wise with your education?

[Spencer]

Mr man you are one of most longer term success story of happier abroad

did you date korea girl or other asia girl and did you teach same era of cornfed

how south korea girl comparison to indonesia and how many asia girl you dating til you meet indonesia wife

the happy marry abroad forever after poster is you zboy yohan davewe chanta public duende but w divorcing so we see maybe you living proof that anti marry aborders are wrong

hope you share more on your stories mr man

[yick]

Yick you are sick

every debate end up your personal attacking on other aborder even on wiseton last time only few weeks ago

are you lonely and bitter strand in ugly apartment in dreary pollute infested china town as elderman who only fun is live on forum and pretend be better than other poster

if you so smart and so great why in yr older age you can only be lo pay english instructor in land that never ever accept you equal to chinaman and may spit you out w nothing when they not need you anymore

it so sad to see man like you think he so great cus can sling muds at other poster and talk down from hi throne egomania when realty is by world standard you not even smal potato and now you become old

so now time be humble like wiseton and if mr man right this time jus accept you not always right and take back adhomo insultngs on mr man

Stop bicker stop mean names then we can be gentle and kind to you for uplifting you in hard times and embrace you as bro under wiseton tutlage

@Spencer you are a brain dead imbecile and an utter utter cunt that needs to be banned ASAP

@Winston you said you would ban this cunt if he didn't stop posting unintelligble gibberish - isn't it about time you got rid of this oxygen thief on a permanent basis.

Just ignore him. You do not have to read his posts.

Unfortunately I do... he offers nothing to the forum and he should be banned.

[yick]

@yick
If you want to accept an olive branch of having civil conversation, I'd be curious to know what you did with your studies in Linguistics.

Neither of my parents graduated college. I knew I wanted a degree and tried to study something interesting. Part-way through, one of my advisors in the Linguistics department mentioned he had taught English in South Korea. Teaching English abroad sounded interested. I ended up doing that, and I found a job in South Korea (though I was also looking into Japan.) After that I taught in Indonesia. I did a bit of sales in college and for a while before heading off to South Korea, too. After many years, I went back to graduate school in a completely different field.

As an undergrad, I and another student met with another professor about doing research as a masters student. I applied, but I do not think he quite explained to the stuff the part about getting free tuition and just a little to live on, etc. So I did not realize that part. I applied as a resident hall assistant for an assistantship and got turned down. Looking back, I probably could have continued on for a masters. I would have had to have learned Greek and Old Church Slavonic or Gothic. Maybe I could have built on the Classical Armenian and done research that way. I ended up working abroad.

I used to joke that with a degree in Linguistics I could make linguini at Red Lobster, but I would still have needed some extra training.

What did you do career-wise with your education?

I was living in the UK and wanted to live abroad, I read a book in the library called 'Teaching English Abroad' by Susan Griffith and I found out about this career path that I didn't know that existed until then, so I enquired at a few universities about doing an English (lit) degree and they told me I would be better off doing linguistics - I didn't want to do a lit degree but at the time, I didn't know the difference, I just thought English was English!

It's a similarish story to you, once I found out there were opportunities in teaching English abroad then that is what I wanted to do, I would have done it a lot earlier if I had knew about it but that was before the internet and that kind of info was hard to come by except for books like the one Susan Griffith wrote.

I went to teach in South Korea - a few months before graduating - I wrote to some recruiters on Dave's ESL and
the quickest response I got from an enquiry was from a Korean recruiter and they replied back within ten minutes which impressed me - I wasn't interested in Asia until then - I was leaning towards Russia/Latin America and Spain but once I worked out the salary and benefits - I thought it was a good deal - I didn't make it back to Russia and have been in East Asia ever since (apart from two years in Saudi Arabia). My degree turned out to be a good choice but I am aware if I had to go back to the UK and enter the workforce with it - it wouldn't be so useful (nor my CV - thankfully, I am never going back so it is a moot point but relevant in regards actual usefulness).

NB: I also did a masters degree in the same subject a few years later.

[MrMan]

Mr man you are one of most longer term success story of happier abroad

did you date korea girl or other asia girl and did you teach same era of cornfed

I dated an Indonesian girl and a Korean girl while I was in South Korea.

I do not know when Cornfed was there. I was there in the mid 1990s.

how south korea girl comparison to indonesia and how many asia girl you dating til you meet indonesia wife

I dated two girls in South Korea, one of them Indonesian. I don't think that affected my decision to go to Indonesia, not that knew of. It was like 'foreshadowing.' I had gone into a bookstore, saw a book that looked like a Bible that had words in it that seemed to have a lot of Arabic vocabulary. I bought it. Later, when I met the Indonesian girl I dated, I gave it to her. I can't remember if she used it or passed it on to her friends. When I got to Indonesia, I held off on dating and prayed for a wife until I met the woman I would marry.

the happy marry abroad forever after poster is you zboy yohan davewe chanta public duende but w divorcing so we see maybe you living proof that anti marry aborders are wrong

hope you share more on your stories mr man
[/quote]

[MrMan]

I was living in the UK and wanted to live abroad, I read a book in the library called 'Teaching English Abroad' by Susan Griffith and I found out about this career path that I didn't know that existed until then, so I enquired at a few universities about doing an English (lit) degree and they told me I would be better off doing linguistics - I didn't want to do a lit degree but at the time, I didn't know the difference, I just thought English was English!

It's a similarish story to you, once I found out there were opportunities in teaching English abroad then that is what I wanted to do, I would have done it a lot earlier if I had knew about it but that was before the internet and that kind of info was hard to come by except for books like the one Susan Griffith wrote.

I went to teach in South Korea - a few months before graduating - I wrote to some recruiters on Dave's ESL and
the quickest response I got from an enquiry was from a Korean recruiter and they replied back within ten minutes which impressed me - I wasn't interested in Asia until then - I was leaning towards Russia/Latin America and Spain but once I worked out the salary and benefits - I thought it was a good deal - I didn't make it back to Russia and have been in East Asia ever since (apart from two years in Saudi Arabia). My degree turned out to be a good choice but I am aware if I had to go back to the UK and enter the workforce with it - it wouldn't be so useful (nor my CV - thankfully, I am never going back so it is a moot point but relevant in regards actual usefulness).

NB: I also did a masters degree in the same subject a few years later.

My Linguistics degree was stand-alone, not part of an English program. There were some classes that gave credit for both English and Linguistics-- History of the English Language, Dialectology, and Old English. I took two of those, but I studied a couple of dead languages for Linguistics credit, Historical Linguistics, and Morphology. back then, they would put grad students in the same classes with the undergrads and give them extra papers to write. An advisor gave me a paper showing
that I could get Linguistics credit for taking an ESL teaching class. Since I was thinking of teaching abroad, I took that class. Then I was told I could not get credit. I had to dig up the paper and write a request to get it. Credit had been approved for grad students and the paper I had hadn't been approved, but they did a one-off approval for me.

I don't think Dave's ESL Cafe was up when I got my job in South Korea, either. It was up a couple of years later when I got a job in Indonesia.

How did you start teaching abroad before graduating? What year did you start teaching ESL?