Renouncing US Citizenship

[rudder]

Have you ever done that? I'm thinking about it, but I'm still only a Permanent Resident of the foreign country I live in. Can you renounce without being a citizen elsewhere first? I thought about just doing a Citizenship by Investment program in somewhere like St. Lucia, but the cost for husband and wife is $155,500 plus middleman fees. I'm not quite that rich yet. Nevertheless, I'm getting tired of having to file even though I don't live in the US anymore. Big brother just wants to know more and more about your personal finances every year. I hold some crypto, and I;ve heard some unsettling modifications to US tax law that may affect crypto investors this year. It's always something with the US.

[Tsar]

Have you ever done that? I'm thinking about it, but I'm still only a Permanent Resident of the foreign country I live in. Can you renounce without being a citizen elsewhere first? I thought about just doing a Citizenship by Investment program in somewhere like St. Lucia, but the cost for husband and wife is $155,500 plus middleman fees. I'm not quite that rich yet. Nevertheless, I'm getting tired of having to file even though I don't live in the US anymore. Big brother just wants to know more and more about your personal finances every year. I hold some crypto, and I;ve heard some unsettling modifications to US tax law that may affect crypto investors this year. It's always something with the US.

The answer is you can renounce as a permanent resident but then you become Stateless and can't get a passport (unless you manage to get your Permanent Resident nation to grant you a Stateless Passport under some UN convention).
B
I was honestly going to make posts regarding some of the topics you mention in your post but most people don't bother to read my intelligent posts and comment so I figured I wouldn't bother making those posts.

Anyway, December 31, 2022 is the last day to trade until the new tax laws and disclosures come into effect.

But if you are holding long-term instead of trading, you can request information from me on how to evade the disclosures and reporting by crypto exchanges. You, being a permanent resident, may also be able to evade the disclosures for trading by using your permanent residency card (but you would probably need an address and phone and bank in that same nation) to open on a non-US exchange. However, what I am saying (and would do myself) isn't at all legal, it just exploits loopholes in FATCA, FBAR, Tax Laws, Reporting Requirement laws for US exchanges, and foreign laws.

Also, because of COVID-19, almost all US Embassies suspended Citizenship Renounciation, making it impossible for people to renounce.

[rudder]

Have you ever done that? I'm thinking about it, but I'm still only a Permanent Resident of the foreign country I live in. Can you renounce without being a citizen elsewhere first? I thought about just doing a Citizenship by Investment program in somewhere like St. Lucia, but the cost for husband and wife is $155,500 plus middleman fees. I'm not quite that rich yet. Nevertheless, I'm getting tired of having to file even though I don't live in the US anymore. Big brother just wants to know more and more about your personal finances every year. I hold some crypto, and I;ve heard some unsettling modifications to US tax law that may affect crypto investors this year. It's always something with the US.

The answer is you can renounce as a permanent resident but then you become Stateless and can't get a passport (unless you manage to get your Permanent Resident nation to grant you a Stateless Passport under some UN convention).
B
I was honestly going to make posts regarding some of the topics you mention in your post but most people don't bother to read my intelligent posts and comment so I figured I wouldn't bother making those posts.

Anyway, December 31, 2022 is the last day to trade until the new tax laws and disclosures come into effect.

But if you are holding long-term instead of trading, you can request information from me on how to evade the disclosures and reporting by crypto exchanges. You, being a permanent resident, may also be able to evade the disclosures for trading by using your permanent residency card (but you would probably need an address and phone and bank in that same nation) to open on a non-US exchange. However, what I am saying (and would do myself) isn't at all legal, it just exploits loopholes in FATCA, FBAR, Tax Laws, Reporting Requirement laws for US exchanges, and foreign laws.

Also, because of COVID-19, almost all US Embassies suspended Citizenship Renounciation, making it impossible for people to renounce.

Hey Tsar, I typed you a long PM the other day in response to this thread, but it looks like it didn't send successfully. When I view your profile I also don't see an option to PM you. Did you get your privileges revocked or something. Are you in the timeout chair?

Anyway, feel free to PM me if you can. I'd be interested in hearing your loophole ideas. For informational purposes only of course!

[MrMan]

Renouncing citizenship and being stateless is probably not a good idea. You will want to be able to live somewhere legally.

I knew a missionary who got Indonesian citizenship. He gave up his US passport to the officials and they gave it back to him when it was over. I think he could have used it. To lose your citizenship, you have to renounce it before a US official as I recall.

There may be a question about taking other countries' citizenship on the passport renewal app. I am not sure if it is a condition of US passport renewal. But I think it is one of those penalty of purjury questions.

[Yohan]

For living overseas US-citizenship is NOT a bad nationality. There is no reason to renounce it. Why should you do that and with which nationality do you consider to replace it? Stateless is a bad situation, difficult to go anywhere...

[MrMan]

For living overseas US-citizenship is NOT a bad nationality. There is no reason to renounce it. Why should you do that and with which nationality do you consider to replace it? Stateless is a bad situation, difficult to go anywhere...

One reason would be taxes for those who are wealthy or high income earners. I believe US expats can exempt over $105K in overseas earned income. If you have a bunch of kids in international school, paid for by the employer, that count as income at a higher tax bracket. If you are making $200,000 in a lower tax country, then US taxes might be quite a drain on your income. Most people are not in that category.

The US government is rather intrusive in that it requires reporting overseas bank accounts that exceed a certain amount-- $10,000, or maybe it has gone up-- in a given year.

[Tsar]

For living overseas US-citizenship is NOT a bad nationality. There is no reason to renounce it. Why should you do that and with which nationality do you consider to replace it? Stateless is a bad situation, difficult to go anywhere...

One reason would be taxes for those who are wealthy or high income earners. I believe US expats can exempt over $105K in overseas earned income. If you have a bunch of kids in international school, paid for by the employer, that count as income at a higher tax bracket. If you are making $200,000 in a lower tax country, then US taxes might be quite a drain on your income. Most people are not in that category.

The US government is rather intrusive in that it requires reporting overseas bank accounts that exceed a certain amount-- $10,000, or maybe it has gone up-- in a given year.

All bank accounts get reported and so do any financial accounts, life insurance with cash values, etc. The income exemptions only apply to "earned income" and most people if they're rich are not making their money from "earned income" like the working class.

Interest income, dividend income, capital gains income, royalties (creative works and patents), rental income, etc.

Odds of anyone making $100,000 in earned income anywhere in the world is almost impossible. Most people will be working class peasants their entire life.

[Tsar]

Have you ever done that? I'm thinking about it, but I'm still only a Permanent Resident of the foreign country I live in. Can you renounce without being a citizen elsewhere first? I thought about just doing a Citizenship by Investment program in somewhere like St. Lucia, but the cost for husband and wife is $155,500 plus middleman fees. I'm not quite that rich yet. Nevertheless, I'm getting tired of having to file even though I don't live in the US anymore. Big brother just wants to know more and more about your personal finances every year. I hold some crypto, and I;ve heard some unsettling modifications to US tax law that may affect crypto investors this year. It's always something with the US.

The answer is you can renounce as a permanent resident but then you become Stateless and can't get a passport (unless you manage to get your Permanent Resident nation to grant you a Stateless Passport under some UN convention).
B
I was honestly going to make posts regarding some of the topics you mention in your post but most people don't bother to read my intelligent posts and comment so I figured I wouldn't bother making those posts.

Anyway, December 31, 2022 is the last day to trade until the new tax laws and disclosures come into effect.

But if you are holding long-term instead of trading, you can request information from me on how to evade the disclosures and reporting by crypto exchanges. You, being a permanent resident, may also be able to evade the disclosures for trading by using your permanent residency card (but you would probably need an address and phone and bank in that same nation) to open on a non-US exchange. However, what I am saying (and would do myself) isn't at all legal, it just exploits loopholes in FATCA, FBAR, Tax Laws, Reporting Requirement laws for US exchanges, and foreign laws.

Also, because of COVID-19, almost all US Embassies suspended Citizenship Renounciation, making it impossible for people to renounce.

Hey Tsar, I typed you a long PM the other day in response to this thread, but it looks like it didn't send successfully. When I view your profile I also don't see an option to PM you. Did you get your privileges revocked or something. Are you in the timeout chair?

Anyway, feel free to PM me if you can. I'd be interested in hearing your loophole ideas. For informational purposes only of course!

I disabled the ability for users to send me PMs but I can continue to send them. I was at times getting harassing messages.

[Yohan]

For living overseas US-citizenship is NOT a bad nationality. There is no reason to renounce it. Why should you do that and with which nationality do you consider to replace it? Stateless is a bad situation, difficult to go anywhere...

One reason would be taxes for those who are wealthy or high income earners. I believe US expats can exempt over $105K in overseas earned income. If you have a bunch of kids in international school, paid for by the employer, that count as income at a higher tax bracket. If you are making $200,000 in a lower tax country, then US taxes might be quite a drain on your income. Most people are not in that category.
The US government is rather intrusive in that it requires reporting overseas bank accounts that exceed a certain amount-- $10,000, or maybe it has gone up-- in a given year.

Taxes alone, except if you are VERY rich, are no valid reason to renounce your US-citizenship. In general, US citizenship is not that bad if you prefer to live outside of the States.

About taxes, for average income you will be taxed locally everywhere, worldwide - I had to pay taxes 100 % in Austria (EU) only before, despite I am a Japanese resident, but with a recent new tax agreement valid since 2019 between Japan and Austria (EU) I have now to pay 100 % Japanese taxes only. The difference is rather small. Taxes in EU and Japan are both high.

USA wants to know what its citizens are doing for a living while overseas (that's different from other countries), and its tax report system is known to be quite complicated. But otherwise?

I know for USA tax reports from citizens living overseas there is a rather high allowance of what you mentioned, around USD 105.000 or more (amount is changing every year a little up I guess due to inflation) - not such a small sum. Most ordinary people don't earn so much more - me included and I do not consider myself to be 'poor'.

Tax report to US authorities is for most US citizens living abroad more or less nothing but a nasty paper work. If you really earn something around USD 200.000,- overseas, better give the job to a tax accounting office. No need to do this yourself.

About complicated US-tax reporting, believe me, the forms I have to report my income in Japan are also complicated (guideline in Japanese 72 pages, rules how to do it correctly change every year a little) and I just pay for a local Japanese tax accounting office to do it for me. I am satisfied with doing this lousy time-consuming job for me every year and I need not to be present, can travel also abroad, nothing to worry about a deadline etc.

Japanese taxes and insurances, all with different allowances to deduct etc. are split into national tax, special disaster tax, province tax, city tax, housing tax, stamp fees, obligatory health insurance and 2 types of elderly care insurance, and this all over 12 pages and as my retirement income is transferred from Europe in Euro and not in Yen makes it another major paperwork to convert every single money transfer according to exchange rates at that specific date.

The question I asked remains still unanswered. Which nationality do you consider to apply for replacing the former US-citizenship?

[rudder]

For living overseas US-citizenship is NOT a bad nationality. There is no reason to renounce it. Why should you do that and with which nationality do you consider to replace it? Stateless is a bad situation, difficult to go anywhere...

One reason would be taxes for those who are wealthy or high income earners. I believe US expats can exempt over $105K in overseas earned income. If you have a bunch of kids in international school, paid for by the employer, that count as income at a higher tax bracket. If you are making $200,000 in a lower tax country, then US taxes might be quite a drain on your income. Most people are not in that category.
The US government is rather intrusive in that it requires reporting overseas bank accounts that exceed a certain amount-- $10,000, or maybe it has gone up-- in a given year.

Taxes alone, except if you are VERY rich, are no valid reason to renounce your US-citizenship. In general, US citizenship is not that bad if you prefer to live outside of the States.

About taxes, for average income you will be taxed locally everywhere, worldwide - I had to pay taxes 100 % in Austria (EU) only before, despite I am a Japanese resident, but with a recent new tax agreement valid since 2019 between Japan and Austria (EU) I have now to pay 100 % Japanese taxes only. The difference is rather small. Taxes in EU and Japan are both high.

USA wants to know what its citizens are doing for a living while overseas (that's different from other countries), and its tax report system is known to be quite complicated. But otherwise?

I know for USA tax reports from citizens living overseas there is a rather high allowance of what you mentioned, around USD 105.000 or more (amount is changing every year a little up I guess due to inflation) - not such a small sum. Most ordinary people don't earn so much more - me included and I do not consider myself to be 'poor'.

Tax report to US authorities is for most US citizens living abroad more or less nothing but a nasty paper work. If you really earn something around USD 200.000,- overseas, better give the job to a tax accounting office. No need to do this yourself.

About complicated US-tax reporting, believe me, the forms I have to report my income in Japan are also complicated (guideline in Japanese 72 pages, rules how to do it correctly change every year a little) and I just pay for a local Japanese tax accounting office to do it for me. I am satisfied with doing this lousy time-consuming job for me every year and I need not to be present, can travel also abroad, nothing to worry about a deadline etc.

Japanese taxes and insurances, all with different allowances to deduct etc. are split into national tax, special disaster tax, province tax, city tax, housing tax, stamp fees, obligatory health insurance and 2 types of elderly care insurance, and this all over 12 pages and as my retirement income is transferred from Europe in Euro and not in Yen makes it another major paperwork to convert every single money transfer according to exchange rates at that specific date.

The question I asked remains still unanswered. Which nationality do you consider to apply for replacing the former US-citizenship?

The FEIE has gone up to 112,000USD, but the keyword there is "Earned Income." If you're someone like me who has never "earned" that amount of money during a year of his life, then It's not something that you would really care about anyway. The crazy thing is that if you go over that amount by even one dollar, you don't fall into the zero - 9 thousandish braket, but you will be taxed according to the braket of 112,001USD.

If you're a crypto investor or even a traditional stocks and bonds investor and your investments are mooning, you will be required to pay 15-20% capital gains tax (or more for short-term gains) depending on your total income level. Over the past few years of investing, I never worried, because my income stayed below a threshold amount (currently $80,800 married filing jointly), so I wasn't subjected to capital gains tax. In these scenarios, it makes sense to be a US citizen, and many foreign jurisdictions have much worse tax consequences than this for the same scenarios. So, it makes sense to just stay in the USA, work, and make your modest invesment gains.

As you allude to, however, once your investments start to climb to higher levels or certain cryptos that generate interest or stocks that pay dividends become worth a lot. Your crypto interest and stock dividends alone will be treated as investment income (different from capital gains) so you will need to keep an eye on such things as that income alone could push you above the $80,800 threshold and any capital gains you claim that year will be taxed at 15-20%. So you have to keep an eye on things. Also, if you have a job, are you just going to quit in say November, and tell your boss, "Well I'm getting too close to $80k this year, so I'm gonna go home and play Xbox the rest of the year. See you in January?"

If your investments start skyrocketing, and you're going to have tax bills in the six figures, then it becomes a personal choice if you think being a US citizen is worth whatever amount you're paying in tax. Ironically, you're not really supposed to renounce US citizenship for tax purposes, but that is probably the real reason why most people do.

Another consideration is the intrusiveness. The US gov't is becoming more and more intrusive. For example, if they want to know your entire crypto portfolio even if you haven't sold or made any interest on it. Could become a liability for the investor, if they want to declare bankruptcy, but now there's government documentation suggesting that your net worth is much higher than just what's in your bank account. Another trend with the US government is they keep pushing for more and more ridiculous tax law, such as wealth tax and unrealized capital gains tax. I believe there already is an exit tax on individual's renouncing that have a net worth of $2+ million. Kind of silly in my opinion, because if someone's on the fence, it might force them to play their hand, and eject before their networth hits $2 million. This is one of the contributing factors why the US is losing its competitive edge in the world. Of course, there is a major loophole where a business owner can renounce and then do a citizenship by investment in a place like Grenada or Turkey, and then obtain an E-2 visa for the USA, so they can go back to live in the USA, continue checking in on their business there, but no longer be burdened with the USA's citizenship-based taxation. Of course, these loopholes are left in place for a reason. Ultimately taxation is not for the rich, but for the upper middle class.

Yohan, on a side note, how do you get to live in Japan. They have one of the most exclusive immigration policies on the planet, as far as I know. Is it even possible to naturalize there? Japan is also not regarded as a tax haven. Neither are pretty much all of the South American countries with the exception of maybe Paraguay and the new Residence program in Uruguay, the latter giving the investor an 11-year tax holiday. Chile might still have a similar program.

As it sounds like you already know, the USA is the only major country that requires a tax burden to its citizens no matter where they live. Every other country simply considers your tax residence. Besides the USA and Eritrea, all other countries fall into one of the following general categories:
-Residential Tax Countries (these still kind of suck in my opinion, because if you have long-enough physical presence in these countries, then they tax you on your worldwide income)
-Territorial Tax Countries (more reasonable, because even if you pass the physical presence test, they will only tax you on the income from their country)
-Zero Tax Countries

Some Territorial Tax Countries:
Costa Rica, Dominica, Georgia, Grenada, Guatemala, Hong Kong, Macau, Malaysia, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Singapore, St. Lucia, Thailand, Philippines.

Some Zero Tax Countries:
Antigua & Barbuda, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands, Brunei, Cayman Islands, Monaco, St. Kitts & Nevis, Turks and Caicos, UAE, Vanuatu

To answer your last question, it depends a little on where you'd like visa-free travel, but if we're just talking about tax purposes. My recommendation would be to get a 2nd citizenship WHEREVER you can do so as cheaply and easily as possible. Then, invest in getting a Residence permit in either a territorial or zero tax country, and live there. Establish a real physical presence to become a "tax resident" of that country, and then either stay put or set up a few home bases for short-term stays around the world during the year, or become a perpetual traveller and stay even less time in any given place. It just depends on the individual's tastes.

The USA is not a bad place for a lot of people (see my other thread talking about how ridiculously anti-USA most expat-oriented media is). It's just not regarded as a tax-haven by any stretch of the imagination. Plus being subjected to reporting requirements forever no matter where you live, really sucks in my opinion. If I have to take the time ever year to fill out some damn form, it means time that I could've used for something else. While you can pay someone else to do it, you still have to spend the time coordinating with and informing the accountant.

And don't forget you are always on the hook for an audit. Imagine that? That would suck to go through when living in the USA, but while living abroad? Double suck! Even if you've done nothing wrong, it's still a punishment just to have to deal with it.

One other thing that just occurred to me is that US citizens have the Puerto Rico option if they want 4% corporate tax or no capital gains tax. But it's $15,000 USD per year in fees and donation to remain eligible, and they have a very strict physical presence requirement, so you basically have to be sure you're going to have massive capital gains nearly every year, and you have to be sure that it is a place where you'd actually want to live.

[Yohan]

Yohan, on a side note, how do you get to live in Japan. They have one of the most exclusive immigration policies on the planet, as far as I know. Is it even possible to naturalize there? Japan is also not regarded as a tax haven.
-----
To answer your last question, it depends a little on where you'd like visa-free travel, but if we're just talking about tax purposes. My recommendation would be to get a 2nd citizenship WHEREVER you can do so as cheaply and easily as possible.

I am a Japanese permanent resident since 35 years already, and most foreigners are quite happy with that and not interested to aquire Japanese nationality.

Despite married with a Japanese national, I was never on a spouse visa.

Japanese permanent resident status is almost like citizenship except voting rights and some few other restrictions f.e. cannot own certain land like forests, lakes, rice-fields or to work directly for the Japanese government. If you are in jail for more than one year your residence permit will be cancelled.

But otherwise? I own my condominium unit, no working restrictions, could own a shop or a company, can travel abroad, I have to report to immigration only one time in 7 years to renew the status in person, and there are about 2.5 million foreigners now living in Japan.

Yes, you can apply also for Japanese citizenship, not so difficult, but you have to renounce your foreign nationality, dual citizenship is not allowed, but this is the same as in my own native country (Austria, EU).

Japan is not a tax haven, taxes are about the same as in Central Europe. I heard Japan has the highest taxes in all Asia.

On the other side, every foreigner living in Japan long term admits, that this country really works - no problems with street criminality, no problem with utilities like power supply, quality drinking water, garbage collection etc. It is clean everywhere, plenty of public restrooms, excellent health insurance and elderly care including dentist, tip-fee society, very good public transportation systems in all cities and so on.

Of course, Japan is not the place for everyone from abroad, some stay, many leave...
Some are reporting serious language problems, others are running out of money, Japan is not a cheap and easy place...

[rudder]

Have you ever done that? I'm thinking about it, but I'm still only a Permanent Resident of the foreign country I live in. Can you renounce without being a citizen elsewhere first? I thought about just doing a Citizenship by Investment program in somewhere like St. Lucia, but the cost for husband and wife is $155,500 plus middleman fees. I'm not quite that rich yet. Nevertheless, I'm getting tired of having to file even though I don't live in the US anymore. Big brother just wants to know more and more about your personal finances every year. I hold some crypto, and I;ve heard some unsettling modifications to US tax law that may affect crypto investors this year. It's always something with the US.

Anyway, December 31, 2022 is the last day to trade until the new tax laws and disclosures come into effect.

How do you know dec 31, 2022? source? Can you link me to info on the new laws and disclosures? You're saying that we won't have to worry about that until we're filling out our tax returns next year? This year (the 2021 return) will still be filled out according to the old rules?

[WilliamSmith]

Thanks to everyone who contributed a lot of interesting detail in this thread so far.
Speaking for myself, if I'd already got out and gotten citizenship elsewhere, I DEFINITELY would renounce my US citizenship:
Being stateless may be a bad idea, but getting citizenship elsewhere and cutting all ties to the US as soon as you can is probably a great idea, because TPTB are just going to make it worse and worse and more difficult to do so in the future.
I thought (rightly, in retrosepct) that the best time to get out was 10 years ago, and since then they have indeed made it orders of magnitude more difficult and costly to get out.
For me it is not about just trying so save $$ on taxes, but escaping government tyranny. In the old days, naive people would say things like "Since you don't commit any crimes and aren't involved in political insurrections, etc, what is there to worry about?" Now welcome to 2022 where we've just seen years of Soros/Rothschild/ZOG-funded race riots all over the country, aggressive attempts to mandate dangerous forced injections, unprecedented assaults on free speech and other freedoms that were once naively assumed to be constitutionally guaranteed, a wax-museum horror show of "trans"/pedophiles/homosexuals trying to declared themselves politically protected groups, and (among other things) the neo-Bolshevik occupying regime flooding the country with swarms of 3rd world immigrants that are going to vote for cradle-to-grave welfare-warfare state spending, which is naturally going to be packaged with elimination of as many freedoms as the government can get away with taking.

The International Man is one of the best sources out there on this kind of information about the collapse of the USSA and the advisability of getting yourself out and become a citizen of a more palatable jurisdiction:

As they point out, renouncing your US citizenship (back in the days when having it was arguably rather desirable) was once free, then had a sliding scale of increasing fines that have now ballooned into the thousands with a mess of red tape.
IMO it is likely to become even worse as the ZOGs create and/or exploit various national and global crises.

Doug Casey on Why Having a US Passport Is No Longer an Advantage
https://internationalman.com/articles/d ... advantage/

Doug Casey: Well, it used to be that having a US passport was a tremendous advantage. But over the years, it’s turned into an albatross around the necks of the people who own one.

America is the only major country in the world that taxes its citizens no matter where they live.

Even if an American moves abroad—he never returns or even sets foot in the US again—he’s obligated to file taxes and, at best, can get a $100,000 or so exemption on earned income.

That makes it extremely costly to be an American. But on top of that, the US government forces Americans to file many forms having to do with their foreign financial dealings. And they’re precluded from buying various assets or investing in various countries.

There are other disadvantages too because of the aggressive foreign policy stance that the United States has taken, certainly since World War II: invading numerous countries.

If a terrorist takes over an airplane or hotel, it’s unlikely that they’re going to want to execute all the Mexicans or all the Latvians; chances are they’ll want to single out people who carry US passports.

Actually, there are no longer any advantages to being an American and lots of disadvantages.

I say that, recognizing that being born and raised in the US, at least up to now, has been a tremendous advantage. But that has nothing to do with carrying the US passport. It’s a fortunate accident of birth, because the US has historically been the freest country in the world, but that is changing.

International Man: Even if Americans leave the US and never set foot in it again for the rest of their lives, the US government still will tax them. It’s the only country in the world that has this type of tax system and can enforce it.

The tiny, impoverished African country of Eritrea also taxes its citizens this way. But unlike the US government, it has no means to enforce it. So, it’s not a fair comparison.

What do you make of this?

Doug Casey: That’s right. Of course you can renounce your citizenship, but that’s not particularly easy to do.

It has to be done outside of the United States at a US embassy or consulate. The filing fee is $2,350, and it generally takes a year for them to process the forms. Although the law has changed a couple of times over the years, there’s now a penalty. All of your worldwide assets are assessed, and you have to pay a capital gains tax on the appreciation from whatever your cost basis is.

International Man: Taking a step back, we can see over time that renunciation has become harder and more expensive for Americans.

It used to be free. Then the US government raised the fee to $450. They then increased it to $2,350.

They also instituted the Exit Tax—a tax on unrealized capital gains—and made it increasingly costly.

There are several proposals to make renunciation even more difficult in the years ahead. Perhaps one day it will become impossible.

What’s your take on this?

Doug Casey: There’s no question about it. A couple of years ago, they passed a regulation that, if you’re accused—not adjudicated, but accused—of owing over $50,000 to the US government, your passport can be taken from you. That apparently happened to over 300,000 Americans last year.

I know that for a fact, because I personally know somebody this happened to.

Also, it’s very hard for an American to open a financial account—a bank account or a brokerage account—in almost any other country in the world.

Financial institutions don’t want American business, because, since the US dollar is the world’s currency, the US is in a position to enforce its domestic laws on foreign countries. A foreign bank or broker has to report transactions of its US clients. Nobody wants a US client for that reason. They’re unprofitable liabilities.

International Man: Bankrupt governments always try to control money with capital controls and individuals with people controls.

Take Cuba, for example. After Castro came to power, his government made Cuban citizens apply for exit visas before they left the island. They were not easy to get. The Soviet Union, North Korea, and others have also used similar restrictions.

Preventing people from leaving has always been a hallmark of authoritarianism.

It’s hardly shocking that productive people are fleeing the US tax system. It’s also clear the window to leave is closing.

What does all this signal for the future of the United States?

Doug Casey: The US is on the way to becoming an actual police state. The US government is bankrupt, and the situation is getting worse every year, with minimum annual deficits of a trillion dollars going to two trillion dollars.

The prime directive of any living thing, whether it’s an amoeba, a person, a corporation, or a government, is to survive. And in order to survive, the US government needs more tax revenues. It’s going to make more efforts to keep its milk cows from leaving the country and escaping its tax net.

I have no doubt that the US is behind the various UN efforts to “harmonize” the world’s tax system, so there’s really no place that you can run. And if they move to a completely digital currency, it’s going to be almost impossible at that point to evade their grasp. Using digital national currencies and eliminating physical cash, they’ll know exactly how much you’re earning, how much you’re spending, how much you have. The trend is very bad.

The US government, however, is unique in being able to enforce its will almost anywhere in the world. If you leave a European, Asian, or South American country, there’s really nothing your country can do about it. But the US has actually turned into a global empire—which they’re trying to hold together by force at this point.


Meanwhile, it’s in process of flying apart through centrifugal force. I don’t doubt that within the next 50 years, probably much less, the US is going to break up into autonomous regions or even separate countries. An Hispanic Southwest is certainly going to be one of them. Neil Stephenson’s book, Diamond Age, spells out some possibilities along those lines.

Every day the US Congress is in session, new laws are passed—and every law they pass imposes something else you either must do or must not do. Enforcing that law takes more tax revenue. So of course the beast is going to get bigger and uglier as time goes on. Until it collapses. But that will bring on chaos for at least a while. Which is unpleasant and dangerous.


International Man: Given what we have discussed, what do you suggest people do?

Doug Casey: Your options are becoming more limited all the time.

You could renounce your citizenship, but for purposes of convenience, you’ll need a second citizenship—everybody needs a slave card in today’s world.

I think it’s prudent on the part of anybody, not just Americans, to have a second or third citizenship as a backup, because your passport is not your property—it’s the property of your government, and they can take it away from you.

You’re going to want to have at least one backup. That’s number one.

Number two, while it’s still possible, you’re going to want to diversify your assets to another political jurisdiction. The best way to do this is to buy real estate in a place that you like to spend time in, and have gold or other financial assets put aside in that country or a third country.

But act now and beat the last-minute rush. There are no disadvantages and lots of advantages to doing these things.

[WilliamSmith]

Recent article on the subject re: Americans who want to renounce being stuck because of the US ZOG requiring an in-person interview with a government official, yet they then closed down the offices saying it was too risky to conduct these due to covid.

Americans seeking to renounce their citizenship are stuck with it for now
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... hip-stuck

As many as 30,000 citizens living abroad have been unable to secure a ‘loss of nationality’ interview during the pandemic

Apparently, tons of them are also sending tons of documents and communication but just being ignored by the government (including a woman who was trying to run for president in Gambia, but had to withdraw because the US government wouldn't even reply to her request to renounce ), and some people who haven't even lived in the USSA since they were infants are actually forced to be US citizens and pay taxes without representation. One of them was Boris Johnson, LOL, though he managed to renounce back in 2017.

Johnson renounced his citizenship in 2017, having said he was outraged a few years earlier by having to pay the US tax authorities for gains on the sale of his London home.

What a mess.

[galileo2333]

One benefit of renouncing US citizenship is that you'll no longer be subject to USC 18 2423, the Federal law prohibiting US citizens from having sex with children in foreign places. If you're a guy who wants to have sexual interaction with underage girls you can find a country with a low age of consent and you won't be subject to prosecution under US law if you're no longer a US citizen.