Paradox: How can unapproachable AW all be taken?

[droid]

It doesn't matter how we say it or how many times it's demonstrated.
Any response that doesn't get W the hot, white female of his choice is "computer geek PUA B.S."

I can't believe he's still trying to "crack" the American scene, knowing full well that -as I've explained- the numbers don't add up.

[jamesbond]

What really irritates me is that as men we're expected to approach women if we want to express interest in a woman. But then it's frowned upon if we do approach a woman to express interest in her. This makes me frown.

Meeting women should not be this darn difficult.

I agree, men are only supposed to approach women if they give us "buying signals" or as PUA artists would say, "indicators of interest." What happens if women never give us any "buying signals?"

In the Philippines girls will not only give guys "indicators of interest" they will even start conversations with men. This also occurs in Mexico and in some South American countries.

In English speaking countries, women are not friendly or flirtatious at all.

[WorldTraveler]

Yeah every man's experience is different. But more than half of the white guys I've met lie and BS and make up shit. Guys bullshit a lot, you know, especially online. Most of the PUA talk sounds like bullshit. No one I know in real life says things like that. And certainly no guy I know who understands women believes in any PUA shit. They do not use words like "alpha male" and "beta male" or "bad boys" or "cocky and funny", or rate women from 1 to 10, etc. They've never even heard of any PUA shit. The PUA talk I hear sounds totally fictional, existing only on the internet. Not something that applies in real life. No wise or down to earth guy uses such terms or puts people in such categories. Mature adults don't do that. Only geeks who live on the computer use such terms. This speaks volumes.

Winston, I'd say it a lot higher than half the guys lying. I've had to get rid of many of my friends for lying so much. 90% of the PUA stories are total bullshit. Keyboard jockeys sitting in their basement writing crap. There whole social life is their computer.

[WorldTraveler]

How can it be that nearly every AW that's decent looking and not ugly is taken (or claims to be), yet at the same time, they are unapproachable and unfriendly to men?

They are unapproachable and unfriendly to men ... that they aren't attracted to.

I mean, if men can't approach them or hit on them or seduce them, or even talk to them in most cases, how do they all get "taken" as they claim?

Unattractive men can't approach them.
Plenty "taken" women will let you "borrow" them, ... if you're "hawt" enough.

Who are the guys that have "taken" them and how did they get them? How are these guys any different or better than us? What do they do that's different?

The men are interesting (or useful) to the particular woman in some way. They don't have to be "better" by your standards. It's not a merit based scoring system you can take on a scantron.

How do their boyfriends/husbands get them if they aren't approachable?

Men chase, women choose. These guys were chosen.

Agree with everything here. There's no paradox, it's incredibly simple.

I tend to agree with the above too.

Age is a very important factor in determining how guys got the girls. Most of these average guys that have girls, got the girls probably before the girls were 30. Most girls that want to get married do it young. If you're a guy that missed that window of opportunity, you're shit out of luck!

[WorldTraveler]

Here's the paradox explained:

Women are always part of a harem. Because 20% of guys dominate the sexual "marketplace," they are always in possession of all the women. This means a woman is always either "seeing somebody" or "has a boyfriend." When a woman is "taken," she is really just saying that she is already part of some "alpha's" (read: thug's) harem. She obviously isn't going to jump ship to be with an "inferior" man, unless she's looking for marriage, in which case she is just looking for a meal ticket, in which case she remains in the thug's harem and just extracts from the beta.

Hence, "every girl has a boyfriend."

The unapproachable part just means unapproachable to YOU. She only opens her legs to alpha-thug-dogs. She is incredibly approachable to any thugs and/or hot guys.

It' a lot less than 20% of the men. I'd say 5% of the men have all the women. Married women and ones in relationships don't count. These 5% of the men have all the rest and borrow from the taken pool. Unfortunately the pool of sexual women is smaller than it appears.

Unfortunately there are a hell of lot of ASEXUAL women in America. They not in anybody's harem. I'm not the only one who knows this.

http://www.returnofkings.com/23597/the- ... mong-women

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[Someone]

In fairness, there are a lot of ugly and low-quality American women who are desperate and struggling to find partners, too. A guy over 30 or 35 who posts a profile on an American site like Match.com, if his pictures are flattering and there's nothing overtly disgusting about him, will get plenty of "winks" and emails from lower-quality, unattractive women.

Intuitively everyone knows their "real" market value. It all comes back to the question of SMV. 5's will pair with 5's and 8's with 8's.

What does come into the picture is that, under 35, women are at a premium, while after 50, men are at a premium. That can temporarily "distort" a person's SMV, because shortages of each gender drive up the price of that gender. But even in America, the land of sexual famine, a female 25-year-old '5' isn't fooling anyone when she acts like an '8' -- she only gets to play that role for a bit because she's 25. And intuitively, she knows she's a '5'. No one actually needs to tell her that.

[WorldTraveler]

In fairness, there are a lot of ugly and low-quality American women who are desperate and struggling to find partners, too. A guy over 30 or 35 who posts a profile on an American site like Match.com, if his pictures are flattering and there's nothing overtly disgusting about him, will get plenty of "winks" and emails from lower-quality, unattractive women.

Intuitively everyone knows their "real" market value. It all comes back to the question of SMV. 5's will pair with 5's and 8's with 8's.

What does come into the picture is that, under 35, women are at a premium, while after 50, men are at a premium. That can temporarily "distort" a person's SMV, because shortages of each gender drive up the price of that gender. But even in America, the land of sexual famine, a female 25-year-old '5' isn't fooling anyone when she acts like an '8' -- she only gets to play that role for a bit because she's 25. And intuitively, she knows she's a '5'. No one actually needs to tell her that.

Wow, being a 5 and being able to date 8s for five or more years is a pretty good role to play. I'd take that opportunity anytime. In America older guys that want to date younger girls are now considered creepy.

[tre]

How can it be that nearly every AW that's decent looking and not ugly is taken (or claims to be), yet at the same time, they are unapproachable and unfriendly to men?

They are unapproachable and unfriendly to men ... that they aren't attracted to.

I mean, if men can't approach them or hit on them or seduce them, or even talk to them in most cases, how do they all get "taken" as they claim?

Unattractive men can't approach them.
Plenty "taken" women will let you "borrow" them, ... if you're "hawt" enough.

Who are the guys that have "taken" them and how did they get them? How are these guys any different or better than us? What do they do that's different?

The men are interesting (or useful) to the particular woman in some way. They don't have to be "better" by your standards. It's not a merit based scoring system you can take on a scantron.

How do their boyfriends/husbands get them if they aren't approachable?

Men chase, women choose. These guys were chosen.

Agree with everything here. There's no paradox, it's incredibly simple.

I tend to agree with the above too.

Age is a very important factor in determining how guys got the girls. Most of these average guys that have girls, got the girls probably before the girls were 30. Most girls that want to get married do it young. If you're a guy that missed that window of opportunity, you're shit out of luck!

I agree with this. Most average guys that are seen with women got their women while they were quite a bit younger. They didn't have to approach these women...they were connected through school, work, etc.. In divorce, these men would find that the dating world is harsh in the USA. I've been in a relationship for many years now and if it failed, I seriously doubt that I'd have success in a long-term relationship in the USA...ever again. I'm now getting into my late 30's and the game changes as you get much past 30. I'd be able to "hook up" and even date attractive women (mostly 27+ year olds at this point), but the likelihood of anything long-term is very low while in the USA.

Bottom line, if you are an average-looking 35 year old man with average people skills that is single, don't waste your time in the USA dating scene. Most here don't want to admit that they want to date WAY above their head. In those cases, they also should also go abroad...no matter what their age is.

[Someone]

^^ Yeah, that's a good point that got brought up. I myself have pondered the fact that most married men found their GFs/wives in their 20s, possibly early 20s in school.

The trouble is that not all men have the looks or confidence to compete in their 20s. I would say that 50% of men are in the "average" category and they do OK in their college years, meaning they don't have a lot of success but they do get a girlfriend or an LTR out of their younger years; the other 50% are divided between "top-25%" and "bottom-25%." The top-25% are the polygynous players who look good and have a rotating pool of multiple girls (a mini-harem if you will).

The Bottom 25% have a big problem because, while they could start becoming more presentable in their older years, in their 20s they couldn't get anybody. Now that they're in their 30s and 40s, they could potentially make an impact, but they lack the social connections necessary to encounter single women, other than on OD sites, but younger women aren't finding them on OD due to their age (unless they lie about their age), and the number of single older women their age isn't that high, actually, especially the number of single never-married older women.

That actually describes me and the problems I'm facing.

[Someone]

There was a post in the manosphere from a blogger who tried to address the problem of "guys who missed the boat" finding someone after 30. He couldn't come up with any plausible suggestions. The best he could do was, "find some lunch spots where young women congregate," but no such "lunch spots" really exist, and there's no way you can introduce yourself if you don't know those women.

http://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2012 ... years-old/

He suggests "go younger, 22-28," but correctly notes to stay away from OD, "This will generally require meeting women in real life because women doing the online dating thing generally avoid men more than five years older than themselves." But the actual logistics of real-life encounters are impossible. Do you just go to Starbucks and try to meet strangers there? I've tried that and never gotten anywhere.

[jamesbond]

Now that they're in their 30s and 40s, they could potentially make an impact, but they lack the social connections necessary to encounter single women.

That actually describes me and the problems I'm facing.

That describes me as well. Since I have been out of college my social connections have evaporated and so have my chances to meet single women. You correctly stated online dating does not work, it's a complete waste of time.

The only real solution is to go overseas to meet women!

[Vegascook]

When AW say they're in a relationship or taken half the time they're being honest and half the time they're complete liars. A lot of women simply don't have the integrity to admit they aren't interested in a man so they say the lie that most easily comes to mind. Of course there are times when certain women wouldn't lie about being single. Here are a few instances of when an AW would be honest and open about being available: 1) You're wealthy 2) You have high social status 3) Have a nice car 4) You have a nice home 5) You earn a much higher salary than she does 6) You're attractive 7) Your career implies the potential for financial success You do the exact opposite of what a gentleman would do 9) You might piss off her father so she brings you home for shock value 10) You exhibit some superficial personality trait that she overly values or misinterprets.

There is also the aspect of a massive game being played. Many women in the US are always constantly looking to trade up. Ethics, decency, or general courteousness are not factored in the decisions being made. If the woman feels that a man approaching her is step down then he gets treated with contempt. Conversely a man regarded as a step up gets whatever he wants even if it's known that he's playing multiple women at once.

In my opinion the best way for the average man to win this game is not to play it. I've wasted too much time, effort, money, and frustration on American women who are not honest about what they want from a man. At this point I would rather fly half way around the world to find someone as opposed to driving across the city to go out on a date. There's a saying here in Las Vegas: "If you're looking for a decent woman to get serious with, look outside the city, or preferably outside the entire state."

[jamesbond]

At this point I would rather fly half way around the world to find someone as opposed to driving across the city to go out on a date.

There's a saying here in Las Vegas: "If you're looking for a decent woman to get serious with, look outside the city, or preferably outside the entire state."

I would say, "if your looking for a decent woman, look outside of the country."

[HouseMD]

Here is an interesting paradox for you all to figure out. Sorry if I'm overthinking things again, but hey, that's the curse of being a philosopher. lol

Anyway, here it is:

How can it be that nearly every AW that's decent looking and not ugly is taken (or claims to be), yet at the same time, they are unapproachable and unfriendly to men? I mean, if men can't approach them or hit on them or seduce them, or even talk to them in most cases, how do they all get "taken" as they claim?

Who are the guys that have "taken" them and how did they get them? How are these guys any different or better than us? What do they do that's different? How do their boyfriends/husbands get them if they aren't approachable?

See what I mean? It's sort of a paradox, on the surface at least.

Here is my explanation for the paradox:

1. As OTB explained in his other threads, our problem isn't our looks, since if you look around you, you will see regular average Joes with AW. Our problem is that we are NONCONFORMIST, and thus we don't fit into mainstream cliques in America.

We also think too much, which alienates us from the mainstream, because society is set up for people who follow a routine and do what they are supposed to without thinking too much. It's not set up for people who think too much. Thus, the dumber you are, the easier it will be to get along with others. So we don't get along with many people.

2. In America, social life is all about CLIQUES. You are expected to mind your own business and limit your social interaction to within your own clique or family. AW aren't comfortable talking to strangers. They limit their socializing to within their own clique. If you are outside their clique, they aren't friendly to you. But even if you are in her clique, if you aren't her type, she won't be into you either, which goes without saying. Regardless, we aren't conformists so we don't break into cliques naturally.

3. Therefore, without a clique, the only way we can meet women is through COLD APPROACH. However, cold approach is not welcome in America (except in the movies). It's not an appropriate way of meeting women. AW don't welcome it. Only AW in the movies are open to cold approach, but not the AW in real everyday reality. It's more acceptable overseas in other countries to meet women that way, but not in the US.

4. Therefore, we are out of luck, since we don't fit into cliques, and cold approach isn't welcome or appropriate in America. Thus, we are left out in the cold.

Does that make sense? I think this is a logical explanation. What do you think?

Additional possible explanations:

Another reason may be that we have higher standards than other guys, whereas many American guys will settle for fat unattractive women. But we have standards and won't settle. We want sexy, thin, attractive, youthful looking, feminine women. Or we want higher quality women but are surrounded by low quality women. Of course, some of us want to date out of our league too.

Also, some of us are simply too short, dopey looking, or just not the type of guy that any AW like at all, so we have no chance with them because we are too far out of their type range. Instead of telling us the truth, AW prefer to resort to bullshit shaming tactics such as telling us that we lack "confidence" or some shit like that. Also, some guys always get friendzoned by AW for some reason. It's like AW see the label "friendzone" on their faces.

Still, some of us may be unlucky in that we did find an AW partner, but lost her, or got dumped by her. Or, we were unlucky to have started dating in the 1990's when AW started becoming unfriendly and anti-male. This was the case with me, as I was too shy to date girls until the 1990's.

But I think the four primary points above are the main explanation for this seeming paradox I described earlier, and probably are the biggest reason why we are left out in the cold in America in the dating scene. What do you think?

It's super simple. They want to be approached, just not by you.

[jamesbond]

In America older guys that want to date younger girls are now considered creepy.

Exactly, in America if your a guy over 35 and you want to date women in their 20's, your considered a "creep" by most women.

However, if you are a woman over 35 and you want to date men in their 20's your considered a "cougar."