About the Philippines...

[OutWest]

1. Philippines will never become like Korea in next 50 years. It is because the 10% of the population (about 250 Families around the country) owns this 100%.
Rest 90% are hopeless. That 10% will never give up the way to abuse people and let the poor to gain people power by making more money.
So, the chance of what Filipinas could be compared to Korean girls are freaking low. You can forget about it.

2. Filipinas ORIGINALLY don't like foreigner guys. They like their Filipino Dicks in their pussies. However, there aren't much jobs for uneducated guys.
Even you graduate college, it's freaking hard to find a job. Since these guys are lousy and lazy, girls get tired of Filipino guys and start looking for
foreigners who can help them. Yes, in majority of the case, we are the walking ATM.

3. For foreigners, Filipinas have tendency of liking Asian guys more than Western guys.. I asked some girls and they said, western guys dont look asian
plus girls think they have big cocks which will hurt them. Believe me or not.

4. If Filipinas have enough money, do you think they would date old expats? Hell no... Even myself, I am at late 30's now living in Manila,
I feel shy to go out and drink with young girls like 18-22 years...


Hey Winston......... You mentioned about Date In Asia.. You know what?

About more than 80% of those girls there are all snobs with Cinderella syndrome ok? Also a lot of them are Freelance hookers to hook you and squeeze coins off your ass.

Have fun.

Filipinas who are Cinderella snobs on dating sites?
I am sure there are plenty of those. For a variety of reasons, a great many Filipinas want to mate up with white guys..it is an ongoing compulsion for
a lot of them. This of course dates back to colonial times, and is deeply ingrained. Of course, some do not.My own family history in the Philippines
goes back to 1945, and this element has not changed much since then. My grandfather even spoke of it.
Beyond that, if you are in the Philippines, do what works for you...and forget the rest.
Metro Manila? Hmmm...I would consider that a tough location.
One thing for sure, if men are like most who will never get off their rears and go, to the Philippines or elsewhere, they will be absolutely certain not to get a date or mate here.

Outwest
Misamis Oriental, Mindanao

[Winston]

Ladislav,
I've heard the same thing from Filipinas that Baron did:

3. For foreigners, Filipinas have tendency of liking Asian guys more than Western guys.. I asked some girls and they said, western guys dont look asian
plus girls think they have big cocks which will hurt them. Believe me or not.

I guess maybe it's a case where they tell asian guys what they want to hear, white guys what they want to hear, and black guys what they want to hear - that they prefer them over other races? lol

Heck the first girl I dated in the Philippines told me that my cock was pretty big and much bigger than her ex's, which was total poppycock. But she was also hustling me to pay all her bills and expenses at the same time, so I guess that was part or her flattery talk strategy. lol

I agree with Ladislav though, that NE Asian girls tend to be cold and unapproachable. Whenever I try to stop a Korean, Japanese or Taiwanese girl in public, they ignore me. No matter how many times I say "Excuse me?" or "Miss?" or "Hi, excuse me" or "Uh, hi?", it just goes unheard.

I don't see how that makes them "approachable". lol. I never figured that one out.

I also don't see evidence that there are more "casual sex non-P4P girls" in NE Asia than in the Philippines. I mean, if a girl was having casual sex, she surely would not admit it openly out of shame. So how would you know? You'd have to be one of the guys she's having casual sex with to know. But if you're not, then it's just a rumor to you, cause you ain't getting any. But anyone can start a rumor, and like I said, guys ALWAYS like to claim that girls are easy, but if you hear what the girl has to say, she will tell you the opposite - that guys try to get her to be easy, but she's not easy so she has to fend them off a lot.

What you hear from men and women tend to be polar opposites.

[Rock]

No I totally disagree. It has nothing to do with being rich. Even if I had to give every girl only 10p, it still makes me feel crummy. I simply don't like feeling used. I am not a Santa Claus, so why would I want to be treated like it? It's not right either. Why would you enjoy feeling used and abused? It's NOT love. There's no respect in it either. Women who respect you will never treat you like an ATM machine.

Bottom line: Sugar daddying DOES NOT FEEL GOOD. Being richer doesn't change that. Come on now. What kind of logic is that? Just cause I have more money, doesn't mean I will enjoy giving it away and being used and leeched from. That makes no sense and is not logical.

Ask yourself this: What happened to your girls when you stopped giving them a huge allowance? How did they react? Was that a sign of love? Did it make you feel good when they dropped you like trash as soon as the money stopped?

I don't mind giving a girl money for sleeping with me. But giving an allowance? Nah.

Actually, Dianne is the only Filipina whom I really feel good when I see her happy and get what she wants. She is the only exception to that.

I agree. The only woman who I would give an allowance to is my MOM. That's it. Young pretty girls who have sugar daddies often have multiple sugar daddies no.1, and no.2, many of these women give up free P***Y on the side to other guys who are not paying like, X BF, BF, fun bad boys, or average guys they REALLY like; say like a guy she met at school. Some of these women will also use the sugar daddy money (after a sob story) and spend it on the guy they like. IMO, the best deal is to be the guy the woman REALLY likes, you will know because she will chase after you and you will be able to easily control her down to getting sex, money FROM HER, or whatever. You just got to bail when she gets too serious, wants kids, or marriage.



Remember guys, women have no loyalty, and no amount of money will guarantee that a woman you're paying will be loyal to you especially if you're giving her all this money that she will then use to make herself look pretty, attract attention and be more mobile.

I'm completely convinced that as soon as you shower a girl with money and gifts, you automatically get relegated to the 'sugar daddy' role in her mind, oftentimes, even if you are young and attractive. That means she's going to look elsewhere when she needs her own sexual excitement or romantic connection. It seems to be human (woman's) nature. If you act like that, she loses all respect and sees you as a jackass to be exploited. Even nice girls can fall into this behavior. I've seen the dynamic play-out repeatedly all over the world. Too many guys believe they can buy a woman's love and respect. It actually works out the other way around in many if not most cases. The harder you try and the more you spend, the less she appreciates you.

Now having said that, we need stay real. If you are upper middle aged and want to date early 20s girls, you are usually going to need a monetary handicap. But smart older guys find girls who are not greedy (yet anyway, lol) and pay them very modestly according to the amount of time and pleasure they deliver. If you make them work for the money and don't tolerate BS, you are much more likely to be respected by them, even if they whine and complain about it sometimes. Call her on her BS or distance yourself whenever she plays those games or tests you. Be tough but fair and put your own needs as high or higher than hers. If you do all this, there is still no guarantee that she won't sleep with others (though the chance is better). But at least she will respect (perhaps even fear) you to a degree and won't take you for a chump.

Also, don't forget the asset-income rule. As long as pay them with income, you retain some control. But anytime you hand over any kind of asset (land, car, condo, diamond, lump cash sum, etc), you cede power. Rent cus you can never really buy. Girls don't come with a title deed. And the marriage certificate is the ultimate asset handover.

One thing Winston does which I think is wise is that he doesn't overpay girls or girlfriends like many of the other expats in PI. People say Diane has him p***y-whipped. But actually, he does have some power in that relationship. She's had his baby (ceded some of her value as a women to him), lets him travel for months at a time, go out with his friends in town whenever he wants, etc. And even though she disappears sometimes, she always comes back even though he gives her just a very modest allowance.

[Rock]

Ladislav,
I've heard the same thing from Filipinas that Baron did:

3. For foreigners, Filipinas have tendency of liking Asian guys more than Western guys.. I asked some girls and they said, western guys dont look asian
plus girls think they have big cocks which will hurt them. Believe me or not.

I guess maybe it's a case where they tell asian guys what they want to hear, white guys what they want to hear, and black guys what they want to hear - that they prefer them over other races? lol

Heck the first girl I dated in the Philippines told me that my cock was pretty big and much bigger than her ex's, which was total poppycock. But she was also hustling me to pay all her bills and expenses at the same time, so I guess that was part or her flattery talk strategy. lol

I agree with Ladislav though, that NE Asian girls tend to be cold and unapproachable. Whenever I try to stop a Korean, Japanese or Taiwanese girl in public, they ignore me. No matter how many times I say "Excuse me?" or "Miss?" or "Hi, excuse me" or "Uh, hi?", it just goes unheard.

I don't see how that makes them "approachable". lol. I never figured that one out.

I also don't see evidence that there are more "casual sex non-P4P girls" in NE Asia than in the Philippines. I mean, if a girl was having casual sex, she surely would not admit it openly out of shame. So how would you know? You'd have to be one of the guys she's having casual sex with to know. But if you're not, then it's just a rumor to you, cause you ain't getting any. But anyone can start a rumor, and like I said, guys ALWAYS like to claim that girls are easy, but if you hear what the girl has to say, she will tell you the opposite - that guys try to get her to be easy, but she's not easy so she has to fend them off a lot.

What you hear from men and women tend to be polar opposites.

1. Perhaps Korea and Japan are that way or have become that way. But even during my last visit to Seoul, the one day I was unaccompanied (not with my gf) a lone 20 year-old decent looking girl approached me while waiting for subway car to arrive, and asked me if I was lost (I had a confused look on my face and was looking around, he he). We ended up talking on the train for the whole ride and exchanged numbers and emails though nothing came of it of course.

2. In Taipei, female strangers may look difficult to approach. But if you have the balls to do it and don't act weird or creepy, some of them will exchange numbers and emails with you, at least with foreigners. And some of those can be successfully worked (unlike the crap numbers you get in US or UK). I met with Git the other day and he claims his experiences and those of his closer friends are in line with mine in that regard. I may write more about that meeting later in another thread.

3. For Philippines, I honestly don't know how easy or difficult it is to sleep with non-P4P young and childless girls you manage to date. I don't recall anyone ever addressing this directly. But a lot has been said about the large number of Filipina women who are traditional, very religious, and virgins. So connecting the dots, I'm assuming that in a lot of cases, you won't get sex from your non-P4P dates. If anyone is in the know here, please confirm or correct me.

4. As for premarital sex in Taipei, I can confirm its the norm. Girls will openly admit to having sex with their boyfriends and have done so for a long time. Some of them even talk about their sex lives on Facebook or blogs. Most of the girls I've dated were completely open to it once we got somewhat serious. Many others were open to casual non-monogamous relationships. Even some of girls who rejected me admit to having sex with others saying I was just not their type but was good friend material (ughh). My single female colleagues at work who became part of my social group, my current gf's sister, her friends, friends of friends, etc. all admit to having sex with their current or ex-boyfriends. The only exceptions I run-into here are Christian or Mormon girls, a very small percentage of the general population.

5. S. Korea actually has a lot of Christians so it may have a much higher percentage of virgins. I don't know though. As for Japan, I doubt girls are very prudish about sex. In mainland China, I found some of both, girls who were too conservative for intimacy and girls who were open to it. Overall, I found it to be more conservative than Taiwan.

[Taco]

3. For foreigners, Filipinas have tendency of liking Asian guys more than Western guys.. I asked some girls and they said, western guys dont look asian
plus girls think they have big cocks which will hurt them. Believe me or not.

I have heard this true with filipinas that have not had children. However, single filipina moms will actively seek out foreigners for this reason.

[Raja]

3. For Philippines, I honestly don't know how easy or difficult it is to sleep with non-P4P young and childless girls you manage to date. I don't recall anyone ever addressing this directly. But a lot has been said about the large number of Filipina women who are traditional, very religious, and virgins. So connecting the dots, I'm assuming that in a lot of cases, you won't get sex from your non-P4P dates. If anyone is in the know here, please confirm or correct me.

.

37% of the babies born in 2008 were born to single mothers. The times, they have done changed, to paraphrase Dylan. Very religious is a myth, they are just not very anti-religious in a Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens way. And while they may take part in Catholic rituals, maybe even on all the days of obligation few know the Catholic rule book very well.

[steve55]

Winston Wu,

Wow...So Philippines didn't measure up to what your looking for. I remember reading some of your exploits in Russia and how it didn't work for you.
Where do you go from here? If not RUssia , and soon the Philippines are no good. Where to? You don't like CHina , or even Taiwan. South America?

I imagine Philippines has all the problems you mention. I guess I hear stories of some western guys marrying filipina and being happy. I don't know...I mean maybe it work for them. I don't know.

Yes, you have just hit on the real irony of Winston's website and the movement it supports.

Happier Abroad? Where abroad has the founder found total happiness? Russia/CIS? not really. Girls aren't physically attracted to him and P4P is expensive so not much sex or romance for him there, a sure deal breaker.

So how about one of the easiest places in the world - the PI? Well, it turns out the place is full of conservative (often prudish) class conscious girls who prefer their own kind. But, its so poor, you can still get plenty of 'dates' and 'romance' as long as you don't mind playing Santa Claus. But wait, the founder does not like playing the sugar daddy role. Moreover, he's an intellectual who thrives in a cool damp climates with clean air. In contrast, PI is a hot, humid and very dirty environment full of peasant like people who have no capacity or interest in deep thinking or discussions. So if abroad = PI and the founder is our case study, than perhaps "Miserable Abroad" would be a much more fitting title for the website.

This is why I sometimes play devil's advocate and poor cold water on over-enthusiasm. The bullet point comparisons you make between America and 'abroad' listed on the Home Page are extreme and idealistic over-generalizations which wrongly lump 'abroad' as one country. The reality is, all countries and cities have good and bad points which influence our overall mental state (happiness, misery, etc.) at a given point in time. Winston, I don't see how you can deny that currently, you are 'very miserable abroad'. Ironically, your solution is to go to the very country which has been so vilified on this site.

As the creator of the "Happier Abroad", ask yourself, what part of Abroad can I, Winston Wu, find long term happiness. Which country in the world would satisfy all my needs while being accessible and affordable to me? Is "Happier Abroad" just a fantasy which exits solely in my head?

Ok, I'll agree with Rock's general sentiment on this. But we have to differentiate something here. The key word is CURRENTLY. Its easy to complain from where one is because the grass always seems greener on the other side at that moment in time . All he has to do is come back to the US for a short spell and he'll soon be dying to return to the Phils, or to escape the US at least for another country.(IMHO)My take is that as a single man, Winston IS and always will be happier abroad, UNLESS he ever settles down. Female companionship seems to be the main driver of his happier abroad theme, though human connection was a part of it too.

And none of this changes the fact that Winston's comparison chart is 100% correct and accurate. Yes, as Rock says, you cant generalize this chart as applying to EVERY country, and Winston did mention this on his chart when he threw in (not all countries). But it does seem to be mostly true with most non western countries. I do know that my limited travel experience supports what his chart says about both US and other countries. His chart is far more accurate than not. At the very least, it is extremely accurate regarding the US. The research section of our site proves that most of Winston's chart about America is very accurate, so much so that I was extremely impressed to find that expert opinions supported almost every line item on his comparison chart. Ive done a work up lilnking almost every line item of WInston's chart with a expert quote supporting the comparison but it is too long to post it here so I wont do so unless people ask me too. Its a bit long.

I think what Rock is alluding to is that the comparison chart doesn't list the DRAWBACKS and negatives of living in certain countries abroad so therefore, not everyone will be happier abroad. I agree with this sentiment. Essentially, living abroad isn't some kind of bliss or paradise. But I don't think Winston's site ever implicated that EVERYONE will be happier abroad. But yes, in Winston's particular specific case, at this moment in time, perhaps the title of his site does appear to be ironic. But as I said, just at this moment in time. Give him a spell in the US (along with the ZERO attention from woman) and lack of connection with others, he will once again be happier abroad. I am certain of that.LOL. He will soon be praising the old dirty dusty roads of the phils and the difficult waitresses once again.

Happier abroad can mean different things to many people, though literally it does insinuate happier LIVING abroad. But to many guys like me, the message and movement of happier abroad was never about LIVING abroad, even if that's what it meant to Winston. To me, its message is all about finding a foreign woman and bringing her back to your country to marry. This is what happier abroad and its message really means to me. Ive always admitted on this site and in my interview with steve hoca that I'm not one who would likely be happier LIVING abroad, especially in 3rd world countries as I don't adapt well to new environments. I prefer sterile clean, modern places and I'm too connected to the life I have grown up in. (I like going to sports games for example...GO MAVS! LOL)

In all, I still think that despite Winston's complaints, he is still happier abroad. Just because he complains about AC doesn't mean he would be happier in the USA. Nope! Any stint in the US wont last long UNLESS he settles down and doesn't need to chase woman anymore, perhaps then he may find the US more pallatable.

[steve55]

I emailed Winston and steve H on this "money" issue. He suggested I come here and post what I wrote in my email on the subject.

Well, Seems rock and larry think its only about money whereas your experiences and mine say differently. Its interesting that Winston lives there as does Larry yet their views don't line up the same. It goes to show that people have different experiences and different interpretations. I would say that for certain % of girls (say 20%?) money has a large influence but to say it is the one and only factor just doesn't ring true based on my experiences and what Ive learned in my 6 trips to the phils, and 7 years of reading forums like these and my own personal conversations with filipina friends who had nothing to gain or lose either way by being forthright with me on this subject of money.

My reasoning is that if it were mostly about money, why don't these girls ever divorce (and take half, alimony too) after they establish residency here . The USCIS report says .....

"It is interesting to note that, based largely on data provided by the agencies themselves (along with the Commission on Filipinos Overseas report cited above), marriages arranged through these services would appear to have a lower divorce rate than the nation as a whole, fully 80 percent of these marriages having lasted over the years for which reports are available."

Ive met nurses here in Texas who married guys 20-30 years older and these filipinas made tons of money as nurses and yet they still stay married. If they didn't really love the guy, they could have easily bolted. When I ask about this to a few filipina nurses Ive met here in the states, (1 girls I met married a guy 30 years older!) the girl says because she loved him and always did. She stayed married to him till his death in old age. SO go figure. If it were only for money, and they really had no real feelings for him, they would have left him for sure for any of the younger guapo american guys in the states. Unless , perhaps the counter arguement is that the money draws them in and they have such good values that they learn to love their husband in time?

Then there is the USCIS report which matches the most with what filipinas themselves have said to me......
"Why do foreign women want American husbands? Many sources suggest that these women are searching for a "better life" in terms of socio-economic factors--they do, for the most part, come from places in which jobs and educational opportunities for women are scarce and wages are low. However, when the women themselves are asked this question, the answer generally indicates an attraction to American men (they look like movie stars) and an aversion to native men. Americans, they say, make good husbands while Filipino (Thai/Indonesian/Russian/etc.) men do not. Americans are thought to be faithful to their wives, while the native men are cruel and run around with other women. True or not, this is the perception."

Note how money or economics isn't even mentioned. Hmmm.

Hell, if it was about money, then why did my first 2 fiances back out on me? And they were DIRT poor!! They lived in thatched huts and dirty shacks with cynder blocks as walls. And I was nice and sweet to them the entire way. If they are that desperate to just marry anyone for money, and its ONLY or mostly about money, then how does one explain these two girls backing out on me? And if two out of 3 backed out, wouldn't the odds indicate that many more would do so also?But wait, I thought they were only after money and who the man is and love dont play much of a role?

And then the age thing, they say , "how can a girl 20-30 years younger really love a man that much older?". It must be about money. Well, again, Ive had conversations with filipinas on this subject too. These conversations were with ladies who had nothing to gain or lose to not be truthful with me about this subject. What I learned is that they actually PREFER older guys due to their maturity and that older men are more apt to being a kinder more gentle family man and not as likely to still be sewing their oates and chasing skirts. I would be interested to know if Winston or anyone else has actually asked filipinas about this age thing and what did filipinas tell you? I also see cherry blossoms dating profiles and I notice that even the 18-24 yr olds who list desired age ranges, they actually list 30-50 years old as what they prefer! If it was only about desperation then wouldnt these girls not list a minimum or max age range? But many actually do and they dont like guys that arent at least 10 years older. Go figure on that one.

I add all these evidences together as a whole, and they reinforce each other. Overall, my net impression is that the money /wealth factor varies between individuals. With some woman perhaps it can be the main reason. But most of them not the overriding reason as some seem to believe. Just my opinion of course. With most I think it has a role, as in a influential factor of course, and Winston admits as much in his writings. But so what? Isn't that the same as here with our own woman in the USA? How would that be any different? Money usually has some role or influence in probably EVERY country in the world, but all Ive ever said is that it does not seem to be the main or overriding reason with most foreign woman including filipinas. The girl has to TRULY like or love you too. Winston talks about how he has seen filipinas turn down guys with money because they thought he was insincere or a jerk. Hell, I got turned down twice and as far as I know, Im not asshole jerk. Apparently these girls aren't so desperate after all. So, lets give these ladies some credit here. They arn't just being bought. If you hold this view, then you guys are agreeing with the feminists who say all men who marry girls from 3rd world countries are purchasing these woman becuase all they want is our money and nothing esle. Is that what you guys who say its all about money are saying then? You align with the feminists views? Not comin down on those who believe this, Just asking is all. I'm open minded to all possibilities if the evidence presents itself. I consider myself a truth seeker same as Winston whether it supports my views or not. But so far the EVIDENCE and PROOF tells me its not at all just a money thing.


Either way, I still say western woman are FAR more about the money than filipinas ever will be. That's a hands down no contest. Even our research section proves that Western woman are materialistic, Dr Twenge says so as do many others expert sources. That much we do know. I'm not so sure if its the same with the filipinas, certainly not to the degree that American woman are materialistic gold diggers.

[Rock]

I emailed Winston and steve H on this "money" issue. He suggested I come here and post what I wrote in my email on the subject.

Well, Seems rock and larry think its only about money whereas your experiences and mine say differently. Its interesting that Winston lives there as does Larry yet their views don't line up the same. It goes to show that people have different experiences and different interpretations. I would say that for certain % of girls (say 20%?) money has a large influence but to say it is the one and only factor just doesn't ring true based on my experiences and what Ive learned in my 6 trips to the phils, and 7 years of reading forums like these and my own personal conversations with filipina friends who had nothing to gain or lose either way by being forthright with me on this subject of money.

My reasoning is that if it were mostly about money, why don't these girls ever divorce (and take half, alimony too) after they establish residency here . The USCIS report says .....

"It is interesting to note that, based largely on data provided by the agencies themselves (along with the Commission on Filipinos Overseas report cited above), marriages arranged through these services would appear to have a lower divorce rate than the nation as a whole, fully 80 percent of these marriages having lasted over the years for which reports are available."

Ive met nurses here in Texas who married guys 20-30 years older and these filipinas made tons of money as nurses and yet they still stay married. If they didn't really love the guy, they could have easily bolted. When I ask about this to a few filipina nurses Ive met here in the states, (1 girls I met married a guy 30 years older!) the girl says because she loved him and always did. She stayed married to him till his death in old age. SO go figure. If it were only for money, and they really had no real feelings for him, they would have left him for sure for any of the younger guapo american guys in the states. Unless , perhaps the counter arguement is that the money draws them in and they have such good values that they learn to love their husband in time?

Then there is the USCIS report which matches the most with what filipinas themselves have said to me......
"Why do foreign women want American husbands? Many sources suggest that these women are searching for a "better life" in terms of socio-economic factors--they do, for the most part, come from places in which jobs and educational opportunities for women are scarce and wages are low. However, when the women themselves are asked this question, the answer generally indicates an attraction to American men (they look like movie stars) and an aversion to native men. Americans, they say, make good husbands while Filipino (Thai/Indonesian/Russian/etc.) men do not. Americans are thought to be faithful to their wives, while the native men are cruel and run around with other women. True or not, this is the perception."

Note how money or economics isn't even mentioned. Hmmm.

Hell, if it was about money, then why did my first 2 fiances back out on me? And they were DIRT poor!! They lived in thatched huts and dirty shacks with cynder blocks as walls. And I was nice and sweet to them the entire way. If they are that desperate to just marry anyone for money, and its ONLY or mostly about money, then how does one explain these two girls backing out on me? And if two out of 3 backed out, wouldn't the odds indicate that many more would do so also?But wait, I thought they were only after money and who the man is and love dont play much of a role?

And then the age thing, they say , "how can a girl 20-30 years younger really love a man that much older?". It must be about money. Well, again, Ive had conversations with filipinas on this subject too. These conversations were with ladies who had nothing to gain or lose to not be truthful with me about this subject. What I learned is that they actually PREFER older guys due to their maturity and that older men are more apt to being a kinder more gentle family man and not as likely to still be sewing their oates and chasing skirts. I would be interested to know if Winston or anyone else has actually asked filipinas about this age thing and what did filipinas tell you? I also see cherry blossoms dating profiles and I notice that even the 18-24 yr olds who list desired age ranges, they actually list 30-50 years old as what they prefer! If it was only about desperation then wouldnt these girls not list a minimum or max age range? But many actually do and they dont like guys that arent at least 10 years older. Go figure on that one.

I add all these evidences together as a whole, and they reinforce each other. Overall, my net impression is that the money /wealth factor varies between individuals. With some woman perhaps it can be the main reason. But most of them not the overriding reason as some seem to believe. Just my opinion of course. With most I think it has a role, as in a influential factor of course, and Winston admits as much in his writings. But so what? Isn't that the same as here with our own woman in the USA? How would that be any different? Money usually has some role or influence in probably EVERY country in the world, but all Ive ever said is that it does not seem to be the main or overriding reason with most foreign woman including filipinas. The girl has to TRULY like or love you too. Winston talks about how he has seen filipinas turn down guys with money because they thought he was insincere or a jerk. Hell, I got turned down twice and as far as I know, Im not asshole jerk. Apparently these girls aren't so desperate after all. So, lets give these ladies some credit here. They arn't just being bought. If you hold this view, then you guys are agreeing with the feminists who say all men who marry girls from 3rd world countries are purchasing these woman becuase all they want is our money and nothing esle. Is that what you guys who say its all about money are saying then? You align with the feminists views? Not comin down on those who believe this, Just asking is all. I'm open minded to all possibilities if the evidence presents itself. I consider myself a truth seeker same as Winston whether it supports my views or not. But so far the EVIDENCE and PROOF tells me its not at all just a money thing.


Either way, I still say western woman are FAR more about the money than filipinas ever will be. That's a hands down no contest. Even our research section proves that Western woman are materialistic, Dr Twenge says so as do many others expert sources. That much we do know. I'm not so sure if its the same with the filipinas, certainly not to the degree that American woman are materialistic gold diggers.

Hey Steve, thanks for putting some deep thought and research into this issue. I really appreciate it and will keep an open mind about the potential of PI, esp. Visayas region. If I get the chance, I will spend time there and see what my reality becomes.

A couple things about places where it fairly common for local women to date richer foreigners for money. I have found that even in these countries, only a certain percentage will stoop to this. In fact, the sugar daddy / sugar baby stigma will cause many others to avoid foreigners entirely. In Taiwan (a rich country), regular girls with white guys don't have to worry about being mistaken for a prostitute or sugar baby they way they would in a country like Kenya, Thailand, or the PI.

BTW, I'm very curious. If you were so nice, sweet, and sincere, and this is what Filipinas look for, why did your first two Filipina fiances break-up with you? Another one of my friends had his heart broken by a Filipina after being led-on by her for 2 years. He ended-up marring a NE Asian. So far, in my limited experience with Filipinas in Hong Kong and Luzon, they just seem difficult compared to a lot of girls I've met in LatAm and other parts of Asia. First of all, its hard to find hot Filipinas at all. Then when you do, they know how much they stand-out and think they're all that. Last time I met Winston in Taiwan, we did OK with the local (Taiwanese) girls. But the one decent looking Filipina (a 165 cm early 30s factory worker) we met here immediately wrote both of us off.

Perhaps its possible that Filipinas who marry westerners for money at first develop feelings for them over time? Or do their strong religious beliefs prevent them from divorcing guys they are not in love with to pursue more attractive prospects? I don't know. Anyway, a lot is said about American and other western women being very materialistic and money oriented. I'm sure many of them are. But they also tend to be very picky. A socially inept, average looking, or older dude in the States with a couple million US$ in the bank is generally going to be passed-over by young women for a poor but attractive bad-boy types.

Let me ask you a question. How easy do you think it would be for a 50 year-old white guy with a comfortable pension (say US$2,000) to attract a tall, classy and very attractive 20-30 yrs. old Makati girl from one of top unis in Manila and a self-supporting middle class family? What if the guy was just 35? What if he had a flash job at an MNC?

[Winston]

That's a great analysis of both sides Steve. You are right that even though not all countries fit my comparison chart, that the portion about the US is still highly accurate.

You said you can't live abroad. Why not? There are many countries with nice clean air, culture and good food, like in Europe for example. Why not be happier abroad there?

There are many far better choices than the US or a third world country. How about China, Japan, Hong Kong, etc.?

Sure I would get lonely in the US. But right now, health is the most important thing. So I've got to take care of that first, and in the US, I'll admit, I've always had the best health.

[Winston]

1. Perhaps Korea and Japan are that way or have become that way. But even during my last visit to Seoul, the one day I was unaccompanied (not with my gf) a lone 20 year-old decent looking girl approached me while waiting for subway car to arrive, and asked me if I was lost (I had a confused look on my face and was looking around, he he). We ended up talking on the train for the whole ride and exchanged numbers and emails though nothing came of it of course.

2. In Taipei, female strangers may look difficult to approach. But if you have the balls to do it and don't act weird or creepy, some of them will exchange numbers and emails with you, at least with foreigners. And some of those can be successfully worked (unlike the crap numbers you get in US or UK). I met with Git the other day and he claims his experiences and those of his closer friends are in line with mine in that regard. I may write more about that meeting later in another thread.

3. For Philippines, I honestly don't know how easy or difficult it is to sleep with non-P4P young and childless girls you manage to date. I don't recall anyone ever addressing this directly. But a lot has been said about the large number of Filipina women who are traditional, very religious, and virgins. So connecting the dots, I'm assuming that in a lot of cases, you won't get sex from your non-P4P dates. If anyone is in the know here, please confirm or correct me.

4. As for premarital sex in Taipei, I can confirm its the norm. Girls will openly admit to having sex with their boyfriends and have done so for a long time. Some of them even talk about their sex lives on Facebook or blogs. Most of the girls I've dated were completely open to it once we got somewhat serious. Many others were open to casual non-monogamous relationships. Even some of girls who rejected me admit to having sex with others saying I was just not their type but was good friend material (ughh). My single female colleagues at work who became part of my social group, my current gf's sister, her friends, friends of friends, etc. all admit to having sex with their current or ex-boyfriends. The only exceptions I run-into here are Christian or Mormon girls, a very small percentage of the general population.

5. S. Korea actually has a lot of Christians so it may have a much higher percentage of virgins. I don't know though. As for Japan, I doubt girls are very prudish about sex. In mainland China, I found some of both, girls who were too conservative for intimacy and girls who were open to it. Overall, I found it to be more conservative than Taiwan.

Rock,
Wait a second. I wasn't talking about premarital sex with boyfriends. Any girl who has a boyfriend can have sex with him. That wasn't the point though. We were talking about casual sex type of girls who would sleep with anyone they found attractive. Remember? You said that in the PI, the girls were either P4P or super conservative and prudish, and that there didn't seem to be any casual sex girls. By that, I thought you were referring to girls who will sleep with any attractive guy they date.

I don't see how Taiwanese girls are better in this area. Are you claiming that the majority of Taiwanese girls will have casual sex with any guy they find attractive? Usually, if you ask them, they will say that they would only sleep with a guy they have known for a while and really liked or loved.

Also, NE Asian cultures are very conservative, so any girl having casual sex will not admit it out in the open, and certainly not in front of a large group of friends. She would only talk about it to her closest friends.

Do you have any stats that talk about how many sex partners an average Taiwanese woman has in her lifetime? I doubt that it's that high. But remember, we are talking about mainstream types, not fringe types.

You gotta date some non-P4P Filipinas and find out for yourself.

Btw, Dianne is not a P4P girl, yet we slept together on our third date. So regular Filipinas do sleep with you within a few days, if they really like you, I think. They aren't that hung up about it. In the province, there are many shy conservative types too, who are shy to talk to strangers. I guess it all depends.

But overall, I don't see any evidence that non-P4P girls in NE Asia are any more into casual sex than in the Philippines.

In general, NE Asian people are MUCH MUCH more hung up than Filipinos are. If Japanese girls, for instance, are much more reserved about talking to strangers, how can they be more open about sex? Remember that black guy we met at Kokomos, who lived in Japan? He said that Tokyo has something for everyone, but he admitted when I prodded him about it, that you CANNOT simply stop girls on the street in Japan and get their number. He admitted that it didn't work that way there, even if you're an exotic black guy like him. So I was not wrong about that. How could I be, for something so obvious?

Here is another case in point. One time, Dianne tried to get her picture taken with a cute Japanese kid, but her mom came and took her away, as if scared of strangers. She was hung up against having her kid get a photo taken with a stranger. However, the thing is, a Filipino mom would NEVER have a problem with you wanting to take a picture with her kid. They simply are not hung up about that kind of thing, whereas Japanese are.

So I have no idea where you and Terrence get this idea that Japanese women are so open, wild, loose, uninhibited, carefree, and not hung up. That seems to be 1000 percent fiction. I swear. Yet you seem to want to believe that NE Asians are wild and carefree, like it's some religion, when it is 1000 percent clear that they are not. Very odd and strange.

The example of the Japanese mom not allowing her kid to take a photo with Dianne is a classic example of how Japanese are to strangers. Ladislav concurred with this. And so did Dianne. A Filipino mom would NEVER have a problem with you wanting to take a photo with her kid.

That says a lot. It speaks volumes.

So I don't get why you religiously believe that NE Asians are more open and uninhibited. That contradicts reality 1000 percent.

::::::: scratching head ::::::::

[davewe]

I have no experience with the PI (though I'd like to in the future) but certainly can comment on the notion of men paying for women or their becoming alleged sugar daddies. Being a bit older and having been married twice I can say with absolute certainty that all women the world over want men to pay. Buying a girl a burger is not being a sugar daddy - lol!

If you are resentful about spending money on a burger or a drink for a girl you are dating or screwing, compare that experience to the Western world, where you are married to a college educated girl with a job and income similar to yours - but she still expects you to pay for everything - and for a lot more than a simple meal. Now that's resentment.

BTW, in my experience with foreign girls (which I will admit is limited) she will be happy that you are paying for anything (like that burger) whereas the American woman has it as an expectation, without even so much as a thank you. Wait until that American woman wants you to pay thousands for whatever her female heart desires, and then you are lucky if you have any sex with her at all.

All human relationships are an exchange, whether it's friendship, business, sex or love. "I agree to X, you agree to Y." It's a universal principal. And when it comes to love, it's no surprise that the more traditional a culture, the more the woman expects a man to take care of her by paying for the basics. Now certainly if you're paying a girl who you are not in a relationship with/not sleeping with for anything more than that burger, then that's something you have to look at. And even if you are in a relationship, you have to consider what costs are reasonable and you are willing to handle.

Often us older guys get painted with a brush of shame, as in "you only can get girls cause you pay." Most young men are delusional, thinking their looks will get them whatever they want forever. No matter your age, no matter how hot you think you are, sooner or later the girl's gonna want you to pay something.

Let me repeat - all women cost $$. It's only a matter of whether you get your money's worth and whether they are appreciative.

[ladislav]

Men had been paying for women for tens of millenia. It should be an honor. At least she will be faithful to you in the 3d world ( in the majority of cases). The equality that they have in the US or Europe or Japan really screwed things up as it only:
1) Benefits younger good looking tall and extremely popular guys that fit the women's capricious fancy for one reason or the other.
2) Leaves 80 percent of men ( if not more) lonely and womanless
Money in the 3d world eliminates age, looks, height and other discrimination against men and puts men in the driver's seat- as they had been for millenia theretofore.

[davewe]

Men had been paying for women for tens of millenia. It should be an honor. At least she will be faithful to you in the 3d world ( in the majority of cases). The equality that they have in the US or Europe or Japan really screwed things up as it only:
1) Benefits younger good looking tall and extremely popular guys that fit the women's capricious fancy for one reason or the other.
2) Leaves 80 percent of men ( if not more) lonely and womanless
Money in the 3d world eliminates age, looks, height and other discrimination against men and puts men in the driver's seat- as they had been for millenia theretofore.

I agree, ladislav. I have a friend who described doing things for women this way:

"Women CRAVE masculine leadership.
They willfully submit to anyone whom they trust is looking to show them a good time.

Women DESPISE a man who'll bend to her trivial whims. You may only compromise AS A FAVOR, but there must be a verbal 'contract of appreciation' - ie, she must ASK for the favour ("Please") and therefore guarantee she will appreciate your doing it."

Most men do not mind doing things for women that they are having a relationship with if the woman sincerely asks and then appreciates the favor - in this discussion money. It's when they expect it and don't appreciate it that there is a problem. If you still give them money in those circumstances, then you're being used.

[well-informed]

Winston idk why in the world you would feel used about buying a burger to a filipina , who will probably appreciate it. You're ROI is much more higher in 3rd world countries than in any part of the western world. Lol no offense but do you look at yourself that physically appealing to the opposite sex.

If Ladislav wants to be a sugar-daddy type then let him be without criticism. It hasn't been the first time done and it won't be the last as well. The negotiation of sex and money has ALWAYS been present with men and women. Besides i didn't know that prostitutes gave you sex for free. you hypocrite

It's in our nature for us men wanting the most p***y at the lowest cost and women wanting to hold out as much as they can at the highest price. For example im sure Dianne at some point gave you a marriage ultimatum and you said no of course. Some form of sugar-daddying will inevitably come into play when you talk about having consistent sex with women.

So don't complain and feel entitled that women should just give you sex at no cost for you. You're lucky that you're in the position that you are today being in the Phillipines.

Do you want to be those american divorced guys that have 1/2th of their paycheck gone because of child support and alimony (which in my mind is the absolute worst thing ever created against men, you pay for p***y you don't play with anymore)