video: Pattaya: Paradise for White Fat Old & Bald

[MatureDJ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPxu4lBLr9E

[gsjackson]

I truly hated it from day one. Horrendous heat and humidity, filthy and smelly, super congested. You couldn't sit down somewhere to have a beer without being harassed by some bar girl, and the little brown women did nothing for me. Couldn't walk down the street without being conspicuously leered at by fags or what I suppose were lady boys. Just an absolute freak show, a 450,000-person low-rent brothel. And American dollars made it that way. It was a little fishing town prior to the Vietnam War.

A few beers and the ... let's say.... catholicity of Rock's perspective on the last night I was there helped me to see it through a slightly different lens, but I wouldn't want to go back.

[Yohan]

It depends what you expect from Pattaya. Everything is available for everybody.

I bought already more than 20 years ago our 2 condo units (one in Central Pattaya, the other one near Jomtien Beach and use them frequently with all my family members) - if you are looking for cheap sex, it is available - and if you are looking for family holidays with a huge swimming pool, best food, comfortable housing and want to escape the cold winter in Europe for a while it is available ...

Pattaya is simply said a holiday city. It has nice shopping malls, excellent hospitals, large supermarkets, exclusive golf clubs, interesting temples and other sightseeing spots and of course there is very comfortable accommodation of all size for rent and sale available. Iit depends on your budget how much you want to spend, it depends what you want to do in Pattaya.

In Pattaya you have a choice, up to you.

Only a city of low-rent brothel? Are you kidding me? You will be surprised how much you will have to pay if you check out various places, which are truly 5-star and anything else but low-rent - and there are many of them, plenty of de-luxe hotels, top-class serviced apartments...





If you walk down some certain streets in Pattaya, yes, of course women will show up, but if you don't want that, don't go to these places. Go to somewhere else in Pattaya, where no girls will show up.

What means to 'walk down the street' anyway - Pattaya is a wide area, you cannot walk down all Pattaya easily, you will need a motorcycle at least to look around.

[chanta76]

How does foreigner own real estate in Thailand? I always thought you have to be a Thai resident only

[publicduende]

How does foreigner own real estate in Thailand? I always thought you have to be a Thai resident only

It's probably like here in the Philippines. Foreign ownership of a company is limited to 40% of the shares. A developer builds a condo and it assigns it to a "condominium corporation" which can be 40% owned by foreigners. This translates into a certain number of sqm, or units, available for foreigners to purchase.

[Yohan]

How does foreigner own real estate in Thailand? I always thought you have to be a Thai resident only

In Thailand everybody, even a foreign tourist with a visa exemption stamp for 30 days, can buy condominum units in his own name 100 %, up to 49 percent of the building is available to foreigners. The building has to fulfill certain requirements, regarding land size, number of rooms etc.
It must be paid in foreign currency (Thai banks will issue the requested forms)

You cannot buy LAND in Thailand as a foreigner and register it in the land title - only condominium.

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However there are various workarounds about such restrictions, they are legally rather complicated and you need a Thai lawyer for setting up such contracts.

IMPORTANT - It's all in Thai language. Never sign such contracts you cannot read and what a Thai girlfriend or even your Thai wife and her relatives are telling you - consult a law office alone - without anybody coming with you - and make sure the law office is acting in your name and your interests only.

For example you cannot own land but you can lease it for many years. However as a foreigner you can own an entire large building in your own name.

The land title is one legal matter, the building construction permit is another matter.
The land belongs to the person whose name is in the land title, however the building on it belongs to the person whose name is in the construction permit.

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I prefer to stay in my condominium units in Thailand, I know many foreigners lik to have their own house - but you have to consider that you are maybe out of the country for a while and Thai houses are prone to burglary - there are horror stories about foreigner with Thai wife, away for a few weeks on holidays in his country and coming back everything was gone - not only what was inside the house and the car and motorcycle, but the house itself - doors, windows, roof and even the fence and nobody living next to them noticed anything.

Condominium units with a good house administration are much safer, even during my covid-19 absence of more than two years, I found this year coming back to Thailand my both condo units in Pattaya in best condition. Also my motorcycle was still there, no damage, no parts removed....
Condominium units are also stronger against wind, rain, flood etc. - Such rather large buildings are able to offer a regular clean water supply in your rooms and clean swimming pool because of large water tanks, filters and pumps.

I recommend foreigners - if you consider to use them frequently over at least 10 years - to buy in Thailand condominium units only - there is no shortage of them in the larger cities, plenty of offers, immediately available.

[Yohan]

How does foreigner own real estate in Thailand? I always thought you have to be a Thai resident only

It's probably like here in the Philippines. Foreign ownership of a company is limited to 40% of the shares. A developer builds a condo and it assigns it to a "condominium corporation" which can be 40% owned by foreigners. This translates into a certain number of sqm, or units, available for foreigners to purchase.

It is similar in Thailand, but not exactly the same. Ratio is 49:51,foreign individual vs. Thai individual OR company. 49 % might be based on 100 % ownership by the foreigner for a certain unit, but beach condo units are often controlled by developers, so-called company ownership in shares -
it must be freehold land in percentage in any case for the land-title.

The problem in Thailand is that Thai people always want their own house and reject condo units. If a developer is now selling a ready project to move in with for example 1000 rooms, 490 rooms in the higher floors will sell easily to foreign 100 % ownership, about 110 rooms in the 1st and 2nd floor will sell to Thai personal ownership easily too, as these Thai will run it as a business floor like offices, beauty salon, small shops, restaurants etc.
but what are you doing with the remaining 400 units in the lower floors? - the Thai do not want them and the foreigner is not allowed to buy them - they are ending up as Thai condominium ltd. - Developers and construction companies offer them to discount prices for foreigners as Ltd, paper ownership of 51 % for the Thai, and 49 % for the foreigner.... if unsold the building cannot start to operate, no opening permit, not enough money for maintenance... which means, empty over many years with some foreign/Thai developer companies ending in bankruptcy.
Many Chinese-Thai developers have this problem now with many condo towers half finished....

There are no problems with my condo units, which I bought about 20 years ago, all sold, and a law-office/accounting office nearby takes care of all required paperwork regarding ownership. Almost all foreigners are from Europe, some from USA.

Same as I do, it's a second home for holidays and retirement for many of them. Almost nobody stays there permanently, it's a coming and going.

I am very satisfied with that solution, I prefer my own rooms to hotel accommodation. It is nice to travel only with a small bag (passport, keys and creditcard/airticket) and on arrival just open my door and all is available to me similar as it is in my home in Japan.

[publicduende]

It is similar in Thailand, but not exactly the same. Ratio is 49:51,foreign individual vs. Thai individual OR company. 49 % might be based on 100 % ownership by the foreigner for a certain unit, but beach condo units are often controlled by developers, so-called company ownership in shares -
it must be freehold land in percentage in any case for the land-title.

The problem in Thailand is that Thai people always want their own house and reject condo units. If a developer is now selling a ready project to move in with for example 1000 rooms, 490 rooms in the higher floors will sell easily to foreign 100 % ownership, about 110 rooms in the 1st and 2nd floor will sell to Thai personal ownership easily too, as these Thai will run it as a business floor like offices, beauty salon, small shops, restaurants etc.
but what are you doing with the remaining 400 units in the lower floors? - the Thai do not want them and the foreigner is not allowed to buy them - they are ending up as Thai condominium ltd. - Developers and construction companies offer them to discount prices for foreigners as Ltd, paper ownership of 51 % for the Thai, and 49 % for the foreigner.... if unsold the building cannot start to operate, no opening permit, not enough money for maintenance... which means, empty over many years with some foreign/Thai developer companies ending in bankruptcy.
Many Chinese-Thai developers have this problem now with many condo towers half finished....

There are no problems with my condo units, which I bought about 20 years ago, all sold, and a law-office/accounting office nearby takes care of all required paperwork regarding ownership. Almost all foreigners are from Europe, some from USA.

Same as I do, it's a second home for holidays and retirement for many of them. Almost nobody stays there permanently, it's a coming and going.

I am very satisfied with that solution, I prefer my own rooms to hotel accommodation. It is nice to travel only with a small bag (passport, keys and creditcard/airticket) and on arrival just open my door and all is available to me similar as it is in my home in Japan.

I see. Every now and then there are changes to foreign ownership limits for specific assets and industries. The latest one was this year, one of the last acts approved by former President Duterte. They now allow 100% ownership of telecommunications service, perhaps in an attempt to create real competition and real improvements in a sector that is, by all intents and purposes, still a duopoly of 2 very large conglomerates (PLDT/Smart and Globe).

Still, real estate corporations remain at 40/60.

From what you're telling me, though, many more Filipinos are interested in buying condos than Thai. This is probably because, for the past 2 decades at least, they have been brainwashed that condos (especially small ones, like studios and 1-bedroom) can be easily rented to the burgeoning army of urban dwellers with BPO (call centre) jobs, or to foreigners. Among Filipinos working abroad, they have become almost a status symbol. You may work as a maid in Dubai, but if you can generate enough cash to buy a condo back home, you feel you achieved something substantial. No matter whether said condo takes 2 or 3 extra years to complete, or whether the building has 450+ units and there are only so many kids and foreigners in town who can paying P20K a month to rent a 25 sqm shoebox.

I have personally joined the happy-sad bandwagon of condo investors here in the Philippines. At this point, I own 3 condos, one in Davao, 2 in Metro Manila, in a business district called Ortigas Center. One of the Ortigas units is our home, the other is rented. The Davao one is also rented. I can't say they have been the best way to use my cash (I paid all 3 condos cash) but, you know, with real estate you have the yield and an appreciating underlying. Since all condos are new and newly decorated, maintenance costs amount to little or nothing.

For now, I am cautiously glad about my purchases. Things might change depending on the markets and the world not being such a stable, predictable place right now.

[Shemp]

if unsold the building cannot start to operate, no opening permit, not enough money for maintenance... which means, empty over many years with some foreign/Thai developer companies ending in bankruptcy.
Many Chinese-Thai developers have this problem now with many condo towers half finished....

Why do developers have to sell all 100% of units to get opening permit? Why not sell 49% to foreigners, 10% to Thais and keep 41% owned by the developer and rented to foreigners/Thais?

[Yohan]

Why do developers have to sell all 100% of units to get opening permit? Why not sell 49% to foreigners, 10% to Thais and keep 41% owned by the developer and rented to foreigners/Thais?

In Thailand, in Pattaya in case of large buildings with 20 floors and 1000 rooms, you need about 800 rooms to be sold, otherwise the money of the maintenance fee is not enough to operate such a huge building.

Such a building requires staff and contractors to run water supply with tanks and pumps, electricity with backup generator, internet, swimming pool, gardening, cleaning all floors, garbage collection, elevators, and there are insurances and taxes to pay, frequent paintings of the building and repairings because of heavy rain and flood, etc. etc.

With 41 % unsold you cannot open and operate such a property, as income from tenants is not enough.

Developers cannot rent out rooms which do not legally belong to them, there is no land title yet.

Anyway, with such an oversupply of condominium units in Pattaya, you will hardly find a person who considers to rent an empty shell with nothing inside, even no tiles on the floor, no water connected and no electric meter installed.

Developers/law offices will help a foreign buyer, who cannot register such a property, because it does not fit into this 49 % limit to create a Thai company Ltd. 51-49% to a very reduced price to create a land title if he is willing to accept an unsold empty shell in the lower floors.
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If you stay only a few months, there are plenty of serviced apartments for rent available, with all inside, just move in the same day.

[Shemp]

If you stay only a few months, there are plenty of serviced apartments for rent available, with all inside, just move in the same day.

In other words, the market is glutted with existing apartments, so developers can't finish new apartments and rent them out profitably, nor can Thai locals buy, finish, rent them profitably. Rather, they have to find a foreign sucker to buy them. Thanks, but I'd rather rent.

Same story all over. Underlying problem is bad rental market because bad unprofessional landlords cheated tenants so now no one trusts rental properties. If you want to know what a healthy rental market looks like, consider self storage units. No one buys these. Developer owns 100% and rents them out. If not enough tenants, developers stop building new units until more tenants arrive. Developer landlord has powerful rights with self-storage, but because they are professionals, they have common sense not to ruin the market by abusing their rights.

[publicduende]

Why do developers have to sell all 100% of units to get opening permit? Why not sell 49% to foreigners, 10% to Thais and keep 41% owned by the developer and rented to foreigners/Thais?

In Thailand, in Pattaya in case of large buildings with 20 floors and 1000 rooms, you need about 800 rooms to be sold, otherwise the money of the maintenance fee is not enough to operate such a huge building.

Such a building requires staff and contractors to run water supply with tanks and pumps, electricity with backup generator, internet, swimming pool, gardening, cleaning all floors, garbage collection, elevators, and there are insurances and taxes to pay, frequent paintings of the building and repairings because of heavy rain and flood, etc. etc.

With 41 % unsold you cannot open and operate such a property, as income from tenants is not enough.

Developers cannot rent out rooms which do not legally belong to them, there is no land title yet.

Anyway, with such an oversupply of condominium units in Pattaya, you will hardly find a person who considers to rent an empty shell with nothing inside, even no tiles on the floor, no water connected and no electric meter installed.

Developers/law offices will help a foreign buyer, who cannot register such a property, because it does not fit into this 49 % limit to create a Thai company Ltd. 51-49% to a very reduced price to create a land title if he is willing to accept an unsold empty shell in the lower floors.
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If you stay only a few months, there are plenty of serviced apartments for rent available, with all inside, just move in the same day.

That is fast becoming a problem here in the Philippines, too. All the Filipinos working abroad who were lured into buying a condo as a sign that "they had it made in [insert foreign country]" are starting to realise that their 30 sqm shoebox, next to another 449 identical shoeboxes, has nothing special to offer to an ever-shrinking population of potential tenants. There is, and there will always be, an oversupply of these types of real estate, no matter how many kids want to feel the urban vibe by living solo in a condo with a swimming pool and a 7-11 just downstairs, with their $1,000-a-month BPO wages.

I don't know about Thailand, but service apartments are usually 50-100% more expensive than the same flat, unmanaged.

[Yohan]

In other words, the market is glutted with existing apartments, so developers can't finish new apartments and rent them out profitably, nor can Thai locals buy, finish, rent them profitably. Rather, they have to find a foreign sucker to buy them. Thanks, but I'd rather rent.

Yes, true, now especially because of covid-19 and travel restrictions there are so many unfinished projects in Pattaya that I ask myself who will ever buy that. Not enough foreign tourists are arriving.

About rent, many foreign tourists do not have so long vacation that they consider rent of a room (which requires a deposit, rent in advance, and a contract over a few months) - Thailand law about renting out rooms is quite regulated and strict and it is illegal to rent out rooms for shorter than one month as this is disturbing and interfering the hotel related businesses.

To buy a condo for yourself is OK, if you come frequently and use them, I use my ones since about 20 years - but I see no profitable business in buying condo units with the intention to offer them for rent. - Hardly any money left for the owner.

Another issue for many foreigners is the Thai visa - foreigners are welcome for short time, but long stay is not so easy. Especially not if you are old and retired, as the visa requirements about money and health insurance are now rather difficult to fulfill.

[Yohan]

That is fast becoming a problem here in the Philippines, too. All the Filipinos working abroad who were lured into buying a condo as a sign that "they had it made in [insert foreign country]" are starting to realise that their 30 sqm shoebox, next to another 449 identical shoeboxes, has nothing special to offer to an ever-shrinking population of potential tenants. There is, and there will always be, an oversupply of these types of real estate...

In Pattaya it's by far more serious, it's not only about finished unsold condominum units, it is about abandoned huge high-rise condominium projects, unfinished, everywhere.

One of the most infamous projects, abandoned near Bali Hai Pier in Pattaya since several years.



And it is not only about condominium buildings, it is also about underused hotels, which are difficult to run without risk to become bankrupt.

After a failed project often the responsible people are on the run, just left to somewhere.

Not only about huge projects, some foreigners buy a few rooms only, after they fail to find tenants they fail to pay for maintenance often over 5 or more years and disappear and because of those debts they left, the house administration can only ask the court to auction them. - But nobody buys such rooms, as it is easier and much faster to buy rooms which are ready for sale.

Thai banks often have a billboard about such properties, if you are willing to pay the housing loan on it and the legal fees, it's yours. But nobody buys that...