Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Thurs nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts with FREE Prizes!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE Live AFA Seminar! See locations and details.


Scam free! Check out Christian Filipina - Meet Asian women with Christian values! Members screened.
Exclusive book offer! 75% off! How to Meet, Date and Marry Your Filipina Wife



View Active Topics       Latest 100 Topics       View Your Posts       FAQ Topics       Switch to Mobile


Thailand - Retirement Paradise For Western Men

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby ladislav » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:11 am

Rock, we are having an anecdote-based argument. In other words, it is always- I saw this and you saw that and then I have a friend who went there and he had a different experience but I have this friend and then he thinks that this and that. And people will have different experiences, that is just life!

Because statistics or opinion polls and other such evidence need to back up such an argument sooner or later and I do not think you or I have hard data or can/want to obtain it, we will just have to present both viewpoints based on our experiences and let the reader decide. They can then head for Thailand or the Philippines or wherever based on our advice and choose who they want to follow. If they want to follow.

East Asians who speak Thai will, based on my numerous observations, still be better treated and fit in better than white people. The locals will accept them infinitely more. That is historically proven as Thailand absorbed Asian immigrants for centuries but even had laws to keep Westerners out. And no, I am not doing a research on those laws now.

Where I lived in BKK I saw Koreans and Malaysians who stayed in Thailand for a long time and they were treated very well and some even adopted Thai names and they appeared to have great wives and families and all. Granted their women were older. When I saw how they were treated and how I was mocked, it reminded me of America and what AA men experience and how white people in the US assimilate while Asians do not. Kind of a similar mechanism.

Again, this is anecdotal and I think I will just keep it at that. I have better things to do now in Costa Rica than to dig back and collect evidence. So, again, let's agree to disagree and the persons here will make their own conclusions. I say, Thailand is not a retirement paradise for white men but from what I saw, Asian guys have a ball there.

I am sure things have improved since I left in 1996 only I am not sure to what degree. Maybe the 21 year old person who was barking farang farang is now an avid internet user and is 39 and is no longer barking as loud. The kids who were taunting me and who were ten then are now 27, have kids of their own and are admonishing them against the shameful practice on a daily basis. Because of the Internet? Maybe the 40 year old curled up lip rolled up eye hawkers are now 57 and they saw my posts and now regret the 4 century old tradition because of the Internet use and the politically correct campaigns carried out by indignant farangs? A million man march on the Parliament? Don' call me farang! We shall overcome!

Vietnamese brides which you have mentioned are not for Asian retirees in Thailand. These are to invite home to Singapore, Japan, Korea, etc to live there. And they do have a better reputation as potential virgin wives /immigrants who will settle in those countries than Thais do. And Thai women do have a degree of notoriety in N Asian countries because of so many of them working in clubs there. Same with Filipinas. The VNese do not have any such bad name. But we are talking about immigrant brides into N Asia, not wives to retire with in Thailand.

Those Asians, however, who do retire or live long term in Thailand with a view to settle /start business overwhelmingly take Thai wives. It just makes more sense. They do not fly to VN and bring in a girl to BKK as a rule because of visa issues and just the incongruity of it. A two month tourist who does not speak Thai may not do very well, but if they stay there, they do OK. Seen it with my eyes a gazillion times. And the families are spared the taunting. Again, this is anecdotal so let the reader take my advise if they want.

I think that without realizing it, we have been playing the devil's advocate here and challenging each other to provide proof, and it does sharpen our wit, but we should really concentrate on helping our members here to get correct info. My pov is that white guys, particularly young white guys should not get into Thailand too much ( and any other non Oriental looking person should not do it) and just go and have fun and not be taken in by the people because the underlying prejudice against them goes back centuries and you only become aware of it after it is too late. There are better countries. If these are Oriental looking guys, well then, they have got green light and should go by all means. They will go through a culture shock but after some time they will successfully assimilate.

This became my realization and I have hard time believing that the advent of the Internet and the birth of the new generation changed people sufficiently. After all, the Internet arrived in the US as well and there has been a huge number of immigrants and a new generation was born here but it did not rid the US of prejudice did it?

Such is my position and warning to these guys because I do not want them to get hurt. And of course, you are free to contest it and present your own position and let them see what they want to do.

Now, if you excuse me gentlemen, I am going to enjoy a bit of Costa Rican food and fun.

PS. I do have to accede to this point though- if white people settle in Pattaya or Phuket or Ko Samui which are replete with Western tourists, and were created as havens for Western men ala AC in the Philippines, and these Western men have good money coming in, then well, maybe those places can be paradise. And you do not need to speak Thai or know the culture and you will not be offended when someone calls you whatever, because you live like a king on your pension and then you don't speak the language anyway. Just get drunk and screw whores who have seeped down after they had done their full circuit in BKK. The white men will not be working for Thai institutions as I did for 3.5 years and living their lives in the Thai society and language like I did. Do you know the proverb: "A crowded elevator smells different to a midget"?
Last edited by ladislav on Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:05 pm, edited 7 times in total.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm







Postby Disillusioned_American » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:26 am

There is no "paradise" for white men, from what I have experienced, and quite frankly, I am damn tired of hearing it. I am also sick of being told how great I supposedly have it or should have it here in the US, because that has not been the case for me at all.

Honestly, I am surprised that there are as many black men on this forum as there are. It seems to me that the US is a paradise for black men, as long as they are able and willing to fulfill the role that the TV/music industry has laid out for them. I can't for the life of me understand how average or above average black men aren't at least getting laid in the US, since there seems to be such a demand for them from nearly every race of women here. Seems like AA men have an advantage everywhere in the world right now, but I can understand why they desire to go abroad if they're looking to find a wife or have a decent relationship. But if it's just for sex, I am truly perplexed.

Also, I find it very unfortunate that SE Asian countries seem to be the "go to" spot for white men looking to hook up or find a wife, since I am simply not interested in Asian women. I want to live somewhere that I don't have to worry about being constantly reminded of how "privileged" I allegedly am for being white; or in the very least, I would like to experience some of that elusive privilege, because I am obviously missing the f*ck out.
Disillusioned_American
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:49 pm

Postby zboy1 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:46 am

Disillusioned_American wrote:There is no "paradise" for white men, from what I have experienced, and quite frankly, I am damn tired of hearing it. I am also sick of being told how great I supposedly have it or should have it here in the US, because that has not been the case for me at all.

Honestly, I am surprised that there are as many black men on this forum as there are. It seems to me that the US is a paradise for black men, as long as they are able and willing to fulfill the role that the TV/music industry has laid out for them. I can't for the life of me understand how average or above average black men aren't at least getting laid in the US, since there seems to be such a demand for them from nearly every race of women here. Seems like AA men have an advantage everywhere in the world right now, but I can understand why they desire to go abroad if they're looking to find a wife or have a decent relationship. But if it's just for sex, I am truly perplexed.

Also, I find it very unfortunate that SE Asian countries seem to be the "go to" spot for white men looking to hook up or find a wife, since I am simply not interested in Asian women. I want to live somewhere that I don't have to worry about being constantly reminded of how "privileged" I allegedly am for being white; or in the very least, I would like to experience some of that elusive privilege, because I am obviously missing the f*ck out.


Then obviously you should avoid Asia at all costs! I think Russia or Eastern Europe might be a much better fit for you DA.
zboy1
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4441
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:33 am

Postby ladislav » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:00 am

Disillusioned_American wrote:There is no "paradise" for white men, from what I have experienced, and quite frankly, I am damn tired of hearing it. I am also sick of being told how great I supposedly have it or should h. I want to live somewhere that I don't have to worry about being constantly reminded of how "privileged" I allegedly am for being white; or in the very least, I would like to experience some of that elusive privilege, because I am obviously missing the f*ck out.


May I ask you where you have been traveling so far? Because things work out differently for different people. Since you are not into Asian girls, well, Latin America and E. Europe should be your stomping ground.

The white privilege in America consists of one aspect

You will not be shouted at or get dirty looks from white racists when you move into a white neighborhood in deep "provinces". You will not be treated too different. That's about it. And, yes, you will be able to get into high corporate echelons with the right qualifications a bit easier.

Otherwise, you are up the shit creek unless very rich, very handsome and very well connected/qualified. All the privileges are reserved for other groups- the ones that you ( and me) allegedely oppress. This is why you don't see so many white men banging on America's doors and you don't have illegal Brits and Germans hiding out from the immigration.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm

Postby Disillusioned_American » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:59 pm

Yes, I agree about E. Europe, and that's where I want to go (back to) to find a wife, and to live if possible. I have already had success in this region. I am mostly interested in former Yugoslavian countries. In fact, I just talked to some of my friends from Croatia yesterday on Skype.

The problem is that, it is NOT EASY to obtain a residency visa in those countries! I suppose that I could work on getting an english teaching certificate, but from what I can tell, there aren't exactly a plethora of these positions available, especially when compared to say, China, for instance. I truly wish there were another option. Obviously, marrying a woman from one of those countries would help with getting residency, and that option was presented to me by a nice and sincere girl that I meet and liked (she was okay with the fact that I didn't want to live in the US, so she wasn't a gold digger). However, three months is just not long enough to get to know a person, especially when there's a language barrier involved.

Also, going over the border every 89 days and coming back the same or the next day is no longer an option in most of these countries. I fear that if I break this law by overstaying my visa, then I might be barred from reentering the country for five years or some bullish*t. See my dilemma?
Disillusioned_American
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:49 pm

Postby ladislav » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:42 pm

You only need one job and one woman ( hopefully). If the worst comes to worst, you will leave for three months and come back after that while talking to her on Skype and calling her.

Distance makes heart grow fonder.

Nothing is impossible with God so one needs to be resourceful, patient ( but not too much) and think in terms of creative solutions, not obstacles. That is what sets Americans ( supposedly) apart from other people.

Also, you need to network with other expats in the region by googling "expat serbia", "expats croatia", etc. A lot of them are in the same situation; they can refer you to lawyers, or provide those creative solutions. There can always be some obscure visas that they can procure for money. Plus your girl can help you out as well.

My father popped the question to my mom after 3 days and they had a happy marriage for 47 years. Rules are different in those countries.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm

Postby Rock » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:14 pm

ladislav wrote:Rock, we are having an anecdote-based argument. In other words, it is always- I saw this and you saw that and then I have a friend who went there and he had a different experience but I have this friend and then he thinks that this and that. And people will have different experiences, that is just life!

Because statistics or opinion polls and other such evidence need to back up such an argument sooner or later and I do not think you or I have hard data or can/want to obtain it, we will just have to present both viewpoints based on our experiences and let the reader decide. They can then head for Thailand or the Philippines or wherever based on our advice and choose who they want to follow. If they want to follow.

East Asians who speak Thai will, based on my numerous observations, still be better treated and fit in better than white people. The locals will accept them infinitely more. That is historically proven as Thailand absorbed Asian immigrants for centuries but even had laws to keep Westerners out. And no, I am not doing a research on those laws now.

Where I lived in BKK I saw Koreans and Malaysians who stayed in Thailand for a long time and they were treated very well and some even adopted Thai names and they appeared to have great wives and families and all. Granted their women were older. When I saw how they were treated and how I was mocked, it reminded me of America and what AA men experience and how white people in the US assimilate while Asians do not. Kind of a similar mechanism.

Again, this is anecdotal and I think I will just keep it at that. I have better things to do now in Costa Rica than to dig back and collect evidence. So, again, let's agree to disagree and the persons here will make their own conclusions. I say, Thailand is not a retirement paradise for white men but from what I saw, Asian guys have a ball there.

I am sure things have improved since I left in 1996 only I am not sure to what degree. Maybe the 21 year old person who was barking farang farang is now an avid internet user and is 39 and is no longer barking as loud. The kids who were taunting me and who were ten then are now 27, have kids of their own and are admonishing them against the shameful practice on a daily basis. Because of the Internet? Maybe the 40 year old curled up lip rolled up eye hawkers are now 57 and they saw my posts and now regret the 4 century old tradition because of the Internet use and the politically correct campaigns carried out by indignant farangs? A million man march on the Parliament? Don' call me farang! We shall overcome!

Vietnamese brides which you have mentioned are not for Asian retirees in Thailand. These are to invite home to Singapore, Japan, Korea, etc to live there. And they do have a better reputation as potential virgin wives /immigrants who will settle in those countries than Thais do. And Thai women do have a degree of notoriety in N Asian countries because of so many of them working in clubs there. Same with Filipinas. The VNese do not have any such bad name. But we are talking about immigrant brides into N Asia, not wives to retire with in Thailand.

Those Asians, however, who do retire or live long term in Thailand with a view to settle /start business overwhelmingly take Thai wives. It just makes more sense. They do not fly to VN and bring in a girl to BKK as a rule because of visa issues and just the incongruity of it. A two month tourist who does not speak Thai may not do very well, but if they stay there, they do OK. Seen it with my eyes a gazillion times. And the families are spared the taunting. Again, this is anecdotal so let the reader take my advise if they want.

I think that without realizing it, we have been playing the devil's advocate here and challenging each other to provide proof, and it does sharpen our wit, but we should really concentrate on helping our members here to get correct info. My pov is that white guys, particularly young white guys should not get into Thailand too much ( and any other non Oriental looking person should not do it) and just go and have fun and not be taken in by the people because the underlying prejudice against them goes back centuries and you only become aware of it after it is too late. There are better countries. If these are Oriental looking guys, well then, they have got green light and should go by all means. They will go through a culture shock but after some time they will successfully assimilate.

This became my realization and I have hard time believing that the advent of the Internet and the birth of the new generation changed people sufficiently. After all, the Internet arrived in the US as well and there has been a huge number of immigrants and a new generation was born here but it did not rid the US of prejudice did it?

Such is my position and warning to these guys because I do not want them to get hurt. And of course, you are free to contest it and present your own position and let them see what they want to do.

Now, if you excuse me gentlemen, I am going to enjoy a bit of Costa Rican food and fun.

PS. I do have to accede to this point though- if white people settle in Pattaya or Phuket or Ko Samui which are replete with Western tourists, and were created as havens for Western men ala AC in the Philippines, and these Western men have good money coming in, then well, maybe those places can be paradise. And you do not need to speak Thai or know the culture and you will not be offended when someone calls you whatever, because you live like a king on your pension and then you don't speak the language anyway. Just get drunk and screw whores who have seeped down after they had done their full circuit in BKK. The white men will not be working for Thai institutions as I did for 3.5 years and living their lives in the Thai society and language like I did. Do you know the proverb: "A crowded elevator smells different to a midget"?


Maybe differing perspectives on Thailand have to do with what matters most to the individual.

1. If you are hypersensitive to how your race is perceived and you are white, then perhaps you won't like Thailand. But if your focus is on dating hot local and foreign women there who are genuinely interested in you and you happen to be attractive yourself, then it will kick the pants off of most Asian countries including Phils.

Consider an attractive black male in the USA. What were his dating options with white women in 50s, 70s, 90s, and today? They've gone from virtually impossible to highly advantaged in just a few decades. PERIOD IN TIME DOES MATTER!!! Your anecdotes from Thai are 15-20 years old or more, from a different era. Does racism against blacks still exist in USA? Damn straight! But do people call them the N word openly in public like they used to? Much much less. In some cases, they are even given preferential treatment these days. Does racism against whites in Thai still exist? Sure does. But do whites there get constantly harassed on daily basis by kids and others barking "farang, farang, farang'! Very highly unlikely. Do places of business refuse entry to white westerners while allowing only Thais? Very rare to non-existent. I've asked several times on this board for anyone to name me just one or more venues in the Kingdom which practice such discrimination. Never got even one response! Take a poll. AIDS scare is long over and has been pretty much forgotten. Condoms are considered by many there as a secure safeguard.

2. Young attractive western men will love Thailand cus there's a smorgasbord of cute, attractive, and/or hot women available for easy dating, both Thai and foreign. It's arguably the best country in Asia to live the playboy lifestyle if you have discriminating taste in women and prize diversity. You've got all classes of Thais. Read about Stickman's experience last year in a local club. You've got 16 mn visitors a year including a sizable number of young women from various parts of the world who go there to recharge or party on the full moon beach venues. Then you've got the longer term visitors in certain expat ghettos such as the Russians in Jomtien. You could party and shag yourself to death there without having to resort to hos or date fuglies as long as you yourself are qualified.

OTH, Phils is much more an older white man's country. Genuinely sexy and attractive women are very few and far between and often more standoffish then their counterparts in NE Asia cus they think they're the shit; and in their environment they are!. The only sizable non-local group of girls are the S. Korans and they really do stick to themselves there. In Thai, social mixing among various nationalities with Thais mixed in is much more the norm with young people. Not so in Phils. You are basically stuck with Malay looking Pinays - the short, brown, poor, and plainish looking. Great if this is your thing. But a lot of attractive westerners would much prefer the better options they get in places like Thailand. Why settle for poor Pinays before you have to, lol?
Rock
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4115
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:16 pm

Postby ladislav » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:53 am

A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm

Postby xiongmao » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:52 pm

F**k Thailand - Malaysia and the Philippines are making encouraging noises for older men who want to retire there.

If you're a Brit then I think you're better off in these countries as well, you might get a better state pension than in Thailand.

I don't know about Malaysia, but it would be awesome to be an older dude in the Phillies. Good weather, cold beer and more women than you can possibly handle.
In February 2013 I quit my boring job and now I'm Happier Abroad...
Do YOU want to date beautiful foreign women? Find out which country's women are best for you, and which dating site to look for them on!
Plus, if you like Asian girls, then check out my free Asian dating site.
xiongmao
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2536
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:09 pm
Location: London

Postby Rock » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:38 pm

ladislav wrote:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/473594-some-hotelguesthouse-farang-not-allowed/


1. Hmm, that's a interesting one. Do you know that most of the cheap guesthouses of that price range around Banglamphoo don't allow Thai nationals to stay or at least visitors to bring Thais to their rooms. I could bring my Taiwanese or white girlfriend but not Thai. And I've seen Thai men refused entry into certain bars. Dark skinned foreigners too. But not whites. I reckon Thai racist knife cuts a lot more complexly than - if you're asian your in and if yr not yr out. Some excerpts from that thread:

- Even if your a falang, it can come down to the colour of your skin. If you are Black or of Indian decent, lots of options go out the window, including most jobs. I don't agree with this but its just the way it is in Thailand. There will never be any race discrimination laws in Thailand in any of our lifetimes.

My British born friend, but his family originally come from India. He could only get into a couple of Go Go bars at Nana, nearly 90% turned him away even though he had his British passport!

- (side note: some of it has to do with 2 tier pricing, but believe me, they do the same to Koreans and other Asian non-Thais including my ex Taiwan gf when she is not w/me there) - this happened to me when looking for a room for a Thai person:
Advertisement outside rooms for 4500 a month
I go inside to check the room and woman says only for Thai people. I answer no problem the room is for a Thai.
Then the price changed to 10000 because i was paying. I told her to no thanks.

AND

A few years back in Jomtien I stayed in the car while my ex popped into a hotel to check the price. The price was ok so I parked the car, grabbed the bags and entered the lobby to be informed that the price was higher because I was a foreigner. We sharply moved onto another hotel where we received 50% discount with my ex's Thai Airways flight attendant ID.

- The Policy the Op describes too. Perhaps they didn't want mixed couples because of a perceived potential 'short time image' - It would be interesting to know whether or not if the OP was alone or if he was with a western lady the policy of no foreigners remains the same. IF so, then a business may choose to shoot themselves in the foot however they wish.

- it could also be that the hotel management do not want to do the paperwork involved with a farang staying. they have to report it to immigration. to much hassle.

- I have seen GH's and hotels that won't accept some nationalities and/or some races. The only places I have seen that don't accept a farang nationality are a few places that will not accept Israelis.

- There are quite a few hotels and guesthouses around Thailand that will not allow mixed-race couples to stay on what amounts to decorum reasons. Producing marriage documents will usually change their minds BUT not always. My partner and I (gay couple) have never had a problem with this when we both present ID's (DL for me and Thai ID for him) showing the same address for residence.

- i've seen this before....
but it's not that you are falang,it's because your a man,
some guesthouses fo thais do not allow man stay inside.
So falang man or Thai man,you need to wait next to the gate....

2. For Thai people only hotel and room establishments mean just that. They won't allow any foreigners including other Asians entry! If you don't hold Thai ID, you generally won't be accepted.

3. There's a lot more to Thai racism than 'if you're Asian you're in, if you're not you're out'! Thais often discriminate strongly among themselves depending on class, skin color, and background. And darker skinned Asians from Indonesia, Phils, Malaysia, Cambodia, etc. will often be perceived and even treated quite differently than S. Koreans or Japanese who in turn will sometimes be perceived and treated differently from guests from mainland China. Same goes for say Scandinavian whites vs. Middle Easterners or African Americans or Sub Saharan Africans. The way you often describe racism there seems way too simplistic and over generalized.

4. As I've stated in previous postings, Thai is perhaps the best place in Asia for the better looking (by Thai standards) western male to realize the playboy lifestyle. In spite of whatever prejudice may exist there against whatever races, there are plenty of genuinely cute, attractive, sexy, and/or hot women, both local and non-local, who will avail themselves to such males who just push a few of the right buttons. The currency in this world is your own physical appeal, not wallet or race. Heck, there are even hos who wanna go free w/the right type of foreigners and may even spend their own money generously with them.

You really can't find this dynamic in Phils where one must generally settle for poor women who would look very plain and ordinary standing next to many of women they would have access to in Thailand. Physical qualities - facial features, skin quality, height, body shape and tone, and even socioeconomic status - do matter to some western men, especially those who are very attractive themselves.

5. Now how about naming some of the infamous entertainment establishments you sometimes refer to which refuse entry to non-Asians but allow all Thais and other Asians entry.
Rock
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4115
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:16 pm

Postby ladislav » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:10 am

The Thailand that you see Rock, the expat English speaking "Thailand": is a tiny sliver of that society. And yes, there is discrimination inside of that tourist "Thailand" against dark skinned poor Thais. And farang bars ( which are maybe less than one percent of Thailand's bars) do discirminate against Thais with no farang escorts ( poor ones usually) and Indians, blacks, etc. Which again shows that the place is racist to the bone. And as you can see from posts in 2011, it is still on.

There's a lot more to Thai racism than 'if you're Asian you're in, if you're not you're out'! Thais often discriminate strongly among themselves depending on class, skin color, and background. And darker skinned Asians from Indonesia, Phils, Malaysia, Cambodia, etc. will often be perceived and even treated quite differently than S. Koreans or Japanese who in turn will sometimes be perceived and treated differently from guests from mainland China. Same goes for say Scandinavian whites vs. Middle Easterners or African Americans or Sub Saharan Africans. The way you often describe racism there seems way too simplistic and over generalized.


OK, so what of it? It still sucks and is racist. And one should not go there.

Do I remember the exact location of places where discrimination against me happened in 1992? Well, no. I was not there to make a report to the UN. I got the hell out of there. They just told me no farangs allowed and they do not accept farangs. Klong Toey area, Petchbury Road clubs, etc. About 2-3 places. And some clubs in Pattaya have a very strict no farangs policy. Do I remember which ones? No. Again, I was not there to give a report to some EOE commission.I got the hell out.

Not pleasant. Even in Issaan I got bad vibes from hotel owners, frowns, etc.

I am not here to campaign on behalf of Indians, poor dark-skinned Thais etc. Although they too are victims. They should come here and post and tell others what is happening. My point is Thailand is too racist and not a good place to stay long term, fall in love, do business or even retire, unless you are an Oriental person- like Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Singaporean, etcetera.

It is good to hang out in Phuket, Pattaya, etc to get laid in tourist areas, taste some food and get out later on. Visa laws, business laws as well as other laws do not help you stay there long term. Some schools do not want mixed kids. No good for a long stay unless you are very rich working with international companies.

As far as chubby short Malays, in the Philippines you can meet very white skinned, tall girls in various Northern provinces such as Nueva Ecija, Pampanga, etc. But you need to stay and integrate which means learning the language and doing things their way. They do not speak English. Try and do that and then we will talk after a couple of years.

Rock, I speak Thai and Filipino and spent a long time in both countries. Do learn both languages and stay in those two countries long term and tell me which one you like better after that couple of years. Work there and deal with them in Thai and in Filipino languages and hear what they say. Then we will talk. In the meantime, this argument is unequal because you don't know what they say. And you do not have enough experience of living in ( not visiting) both countries. And this comes with time and long hard years of solid living.

Anyway, I no longer want to waste my time here. As I said, I spoke my piece and let the readers decide. My point is- if you are a white guy, don't go to Thailand- come to the Philippines. My sources- I have lived and worked in both countries for years and speak those languages and know what goes on. The Philippines is better.

Rock's point- Thailand is better and racism is insignificant. Rock only visited the countries and does not speak fluent Thai or Filipino. His knowledge is that of a tourist, not a resident. He does not know what really goes on. And you never will unless you understand the language. Can you know what America is all about if you do not speak English and only visit? I say, hell no. Same there. So why even argue here?

You can only speak to the English speakers to get their opinions, so how would you know what is in the minds of the common populace?

Philippines: an average person is taught in school that Americans ( read: white people) are great liberators and defenders of their country. They are taught that we are friends and fellow Christians.

Thailand: an average person is taught that other Asian dark skinned countries are inferior because they had been colonized ( and are still colonies) and that white people are there to colonize Thailand too and therefore are not supposed to be trusted. That white people are "xeno". Listen to the teachings on Ajan Mae on Thai TV. Oh, I forgot, you don't understand Thai.

Heard both versions so many times uttered in Filipino and Thai. Not in English.

Readers should decide who they want to follow based on the above statements.

Image
Last edited by ladislav on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:54 am, edited 5 times in total.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm

Postby ladislav » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:38 am

I am not the only one who thinks that way:

http://www.bestgore.com/murder/australi ... ia-farang/

Cold Blooded, Xenophobic Murder of an Australian Man in Thailand

59 year old Australian man by the name of Ronald Wayne Martin lived in the Central Thailand’s town of Phetchabun with his Thai wife. Keeping it low profile and just living a simple life, Ronald Wayne Martin didn’t bother anyone, didn’t mess with the wrong people – didn’t do anything to warrant any form of hatred against his person, yet this matters not to an average Thai man who above all else, hate foreigners more than anything.

Shit hit the fan on January 6, 2011. Ronald Wayne Martin went to a local market to pick up some groceries and was just on the way back to his home. Driving in his Toyota pickup truck, Ronald Wayne Martin pulled by his house, unsuspecting anything foul he got out of his truck when a local Thai man approached him from behind and without any warning, shot the Australian man in the head with a high calibre handgun (gun experts, fill us in on what kind of gun this is – see photo in the gallery below).

After the murder, the attacker didn’t even try to hide and just went back home to wait for the police whom he told that he killed the Australian man because he was a foreigner and he hated all foreigners. There have been rumors that the murderer suspected his wife of cheating with foreigners so he wanted to vent his frustration by killing one. Since the attacker knew of the Australian living in his town, he just picked up a gun and waited for him by his house.

Whether attacker’s wife cheated on him with a foreigner or not is left for speculation, but what’s certain is that even if it were true, it was not with the victim. Ronald Wayne Martin was an aged man who was happy with his one wife and stayed loyal to her. He was just unlucky to have chosen the most xenophobic country in the world to live in.

Thailand – The Most Xenophobic Country in the World

Thailand was one of the countries I have visited and spent considerable amount of time in during my round the world travels. I made friends with several expats who lived there which allowed me to get a firsthand view of what Thais are really like. By hanging out with people who could speak both English and Thai, I was translated what random Thais talked about when we were in the vicinity and it was always hate speech and mockery.

Thais have a term for foreigners – it is farang. In Thai minds, everything farangs do is evil while they perceive themselves as Earthly equivalents of saints. There is a deep-rooted, inherent hatred towards foreigners. Children are taught to hate foreigners by their parents, students are taught to hate foreigners by teachers and for everyone out of school and away from their families, there is an ongoing brainwash by the media and the rest of the Thai society that strengthens and encourages this open xenophobia.

Thais love it when foreigners bring their billions of dollars in, but they hate everything else about us and hate it to a point that murdering a foreigner is seen as a heroic act. It is a bit of a Catch 22 for them, because if you took away the huge amount of money tourism generates for Thailand, they would return to being those sore, broke losers that sort shit out by killing one another. They like all these huge amounts of cash that keeps pouring in, but they hate absolutely everything else about us.

Real Life Xenophobia in Thailand

By walking around Thailand, you will see foreigners regularly attacked by random groups of Thais and when that happens, all other Thais in the vicinity will come to have themselves a kick as well. They enjoy beating foreigners more than anything else. As a result, if you are unjustly attacked, calling for help will not only bring no help, it will cause more damage as Thais will only help Thais because in their xenophobic eyes, all foreigners are bad people. That by the way also includes Thai police who are as xenophobic as all other Thais and will always and only side with a Thai. If there is a dispute between a foreigner and a Thai, it’s by default always a fault of the foreigner.

Thailand is thoroughly corrupt. From highest government posts, through police, down to the scammers from a fake gem store, corruption rules Thailand. Getting justice in this environment is near impossible which allows for murderers to roam around freely. That’s why hitmen can be hired anywhere in Thailand for very little money. Killing and getting away with it is easy and often, repercussions free in Thailand. You can get away with pretty much anything if you know the policemen or can pay them a little, but if it’s a farang that gets killed, the police will simply say – why worry, it’s just a farang. Thailand is hands down one of the most failed states in the world.

Killings of Farang for Being Foreigners in Thailand

The above mentioned case of murder is not an isolated incident in Thailand. Just before that I’ve heard of another case which happened in popular tourist town of Chiang Mai in Northern Thailand. It went something like this:

A Thai policeman drives up to the airport in Chiang Mai and shots the first foreigner he sees. The foreigner was minding his own business, just standing in line to check in. The policeman admitted this was a random foreigner whom he had never seen before.

The foreigner is seriously wounded, but survives the ordeal and also confirms to have never had previous encounter with the attacker.

No coverage on the incident in western media, but Thai newspaper in Thai had an interview with the policeman in which he was asked why he shot the farang. The policeman answers that he suspected his wife was having an affair with a farang, so he decided to shoot the first farang he saw as his way of personal retribution

When asked whether he thought it was right to shoot a person who had nothing to do with the alleged affair, the policeman responded by stating: “it doesn’t matter, it’s just a farang.â€￾

The newspaper also interviewed the policeman’s superior officer and asked him what he thought of the attacker’s actions. The superior officer stated that: “I agree with what he did. It’s a farang so who cares?â€￾

BTW, as recently as four days ago there was a report from Chiang Mai that 3 foreigners who stayed in the same hotel were poisoned to death. Despite it being very suspicious, the police ruled out any foul play and closed the case without further investigation.

Coverage of Murders of Foreigners in Thailand in Western Media

The most alarming thing about these ongoing murders of foreigners in Thailand is the lack of coverage in Western Media. Not only that, even travel advisories of western countries don’t contain serious warnings for travellers considering a trip to Thailand. Often these warnings contain statements that no citizen of our country was reported killed in Thailand since certain time. You can find the same statement on Australian travel advisory website even though as recently as January 2011 there was an Australian man murdered by a Thai xenophobe. What gives?

The only coverage (by a media, not forums or blogs) that exists on the case in this post is by Thai Chanel 7 that is in Thai language (hence using that Thai script). You can translate it using an online translator but isn’t it alarming that no western media cover murders of foreigners in Thailand as much as they happen?

http://www.ch7.com/news/news_thailand_d ... 5&d=121119

Using an online translator, the story is concluded with the following statement (slightly fixed English):

No further information was provided about the death. But hate towards foreigners was the cause.
.....................................

Would you like for one of our members to end up like this because he is a white guy?

Image

Oh and can you read Thai schoolbooks and understand what the Thai teachers teach their children? Can you understand what they say on TV? Have you lived in Thailand long term to really understand what goes on? I don't think so. Unless you do, this argument is invalid.

I no longer wish to argue on unequal terms and post here. This is just a total waste of time.
Last edited by ladislav on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm

Postby Banano » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:48 am

few months ago in bkk, i was in looking for cheap room in a guesthouse and before agreeing to stay i always negotiate if girl can come in, the owner said strictly no thai women allowed, foreigners are fine..i told him i have thai gf and he still wouldnt let her in.

so what to make of it? are thais racist?if they dont let their own race in but allows other race it means foreigners are not discriminated againist, in fact its the oposite


saigon/vietnam has a bar called apocalipse now, famus bar and from what i heard locals are not allowed in


thais dont hate whites, they wanna be like whites, everyone wants to have white skin and have white nose instead of flat wide


another case, last year i got sick and ended up in phuket town hospital, there were many local people waiting who came in before me, well when i came i didnt wait 5 minutes and i was taken care of,
docs were nice and got blood test, results within 20 min...

where it matters thais treat foreigners better than their own people
Banano
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2013
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:26 am

Postby ladislav » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:58 am

Banano wrote:few months ago in bkk, i was in looking for cheap room in a guesthouse and before agreeing to stay i always negotiate if girl can come in, the owner said strictly no thai women allowed, foreigners are fine..i told him i have thai gf and he still wouldnt let her in.

so what to make of it? are thais racist?if they dont let their own race in but allows other race it means foreigners are not discriminated againist, in fact its the oposite


saigon/vietnam has a bar called apocalipse now, famus bar and from what i heard locals are not allowed in

another case, last year i got sick and ended up in phuket town hospital, there were many local people waiting who came in before me, well when i came i didnt wait 5 minutes and i was taken care of,
docs were nice and got blood test, results within 20 min...

where it matters thais treat foreigners better than their own people


This again happened in the sliver that I was talking about- the tourist "Thailand". Anyway, congrats to you and more power. Kindly keep promoting your impressions. But again, I was a long term resident of Thailand, not a tourist. I spoke Thai and understood what they were saying. Sometimes they did favor me, sometimes they did not. Still a racist place and sucks. My advice not to go there except to visit and get out. Do not stay long term.


thais dont hate whites, they wanna be like whites, everyone wants to have white skin and have white nose instead of flat wide


You don't know what they are saying. You don't speak Thai, do you?

They want to look like their own light skinned high nosed Northern Indian looking aristocracy. Not like Westerners. There are no half kids in the gov't or business. No Westerners running big Thai companies. Only Chinese. You just have no idea.

Anyway, why am I still posting in here? Time to move on.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
ladislav
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:30 pm

Postby Rock » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:52 am

ladislav wrote:
Rock, I speak Thai and Filipino and spent a long time in both countries. Do learn both languages and stay in those two countries long term and tell me which one you like better after that couple of years. Work there and deal with them in Thai and in Filipino languages and hear what they say. Then we will talk. In the meantime, this argument is unequal because you don't know what they say. And you do not have enough experience of living in ( not visiting) both countries. And this comes with time and long hard years of solid living.
[/img]


Congrats that you speak Thai. I suppose you are just as fluent as a native. But what good has it done you? It seems to have damaged you pretty severely. I, on the other hand, know some Thai, but do not speak it fluently. I've already spent at least a couple years on the ground in Thailand and have owned some properties for quite awhile. I have fared much better than you have cus I've had a lot of fun and made good money in country.

OTH, why would I stay in Phils for a couple years when a couple months there is enough to drive me crazy??? Unlike Winston, I vote pretty quickly with my feet. Me becoming fluent in every Filipino language is not going to change the crappy food, the short unattractive girls, the dysfunctional infrastructure, or the horrible pollution.

In Thailand, I can enjoy one of the best entertainment infrastructures in the world, eat quality food, enjoy a variety of cultures from all over the world, and be exposed to hot women both local and foreign, and have 24/7 fun on the cheap. OTH, in Phils, the infrastructure and food suck, prices are significantly higher, girls are much plainer and less diverse (virtually no foreign women available), and entertainment options are terrible (ask Mr. S). Yes, I've been all over Pampanga. Some of the local girls there are taller and better looking but that's on a relative basis. The lookers are still very few and far between. And anyway, they are generally not available to foreigners like you and me. I doubt your native language skills could land you even one of them unless she was in extreme need of a sugar daddy. But those types tend to be a lot more financially independent so that is not likely.

Only a small percentage of foreigners who go Thailand to live the 'fun life' with easy parties and hot women go on to make the mistake you made of trying to go too local. However, many do learn Thai and/or in country dialects if they are curious enough about the culture.

Why would anyone wanna bother settling into so-called real Thailand when they can live the fun life in the tourist areas or even certain areas of Issan? The point is to be happy, not force a square peg into a round hole.

To go or not to go native to be Happiest Abroad? Depends very much on the country. In Thai or Phils., why bother if life is a so much better when you know your place as an expat or foreign resident. OTH, in Latin America, it makes a lot of sense cus people expect it of you. In a country like Taiwan, I would say it can be good either way whereas in China, you should at least get a working knowledge of the national language unless you are only going to stay in Tier 1 cities. In Japan or S. Korea, you need to accept your place as an outsider but learning the language may help you function a lot better.

BTW, I'm pretty fluent in English. So I suppose I'm an expert on the USA, UK, Australia, Ireland, and New Zealand, lol. Actually, I feel like an outsider in all of those places even tho I grew up in States and lived in UK for nearly 3 years.

Anyway, since you've left this discussion, no need to reply anymore.
Rock
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4115
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:16 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Asia, China, Philippines, Thailand

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests