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What Russian/Ukrainian Women Looked Like In the Soviet Era

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to Russia, Ukraine, or the former Soviet Republics.

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Adama
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Re: What Russian/Ukrainian Women Looked Like In the Soviet E

Post by Adama » August 14th, 2017, 6:16 pm

Winston wrote:
Adama wrote:Also, while NewBGold is talking about the photos posted by Voyager as being of models and thereby dismissing them, he fails to realize that much of what he is posting is simply Soviet propaganda. It's what the Soviets wanted Russian women to be. You can even see that by the nature of the photos. It's propaganda from the government. That stuff is the direction they wanted to lead women towards. Normal women are not like that, at all. That's like saying that GI Jane is the average American woman, which is not true. It's fiction.

Women in uniform? A woman working in a bakery is overweight? A woman literally driving some heavy machinery is the average Russian woman? No, that is focusing on a very narrow and abnormal subsection of society and then claiming the rest of the Russian women therefore are just like them. Can you post a bunch of pictures of older women to say the younger women of the whole country are just like them? A bunch of women selling cookies and working in bakeries?
Dude, Mr. Fundie, your reading comprehension is off. NewBGold said already that his observations and comparisons are based on first hand experiences of his friends and relatives from the FSU who grew up during the Soviet Era. Not from photos alone. The photos he posted are just examples to illustrate the first hand experiences of those he knew who were there during the Soviet Era. That was obvious from his OP. Man your reading comprehension sucks. :P
I hope you derived a sufficient amount of pleasure out of writing all that. It's not a matter of reading comprehension. Unlike some, I don't believe every word I read. It's quite obvious that the OP has set his focus in the wrong place and has found photos which are irrelevant to back up his assertions. All the Russian women were like the manly bulldozer driver women, the female soldiers and as obese as the women working bakeries? And pictures of old women are used to declare women as unattractive? This is faulty logic, and I don't believe his interpretation of reality. But thanks, Winston, for implying I'm retarded because I disagree with him.

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Re: What Russian/Ukrainian Women Looked Like In the Soviet E

Post by tradcom » August 16th, 2017, 12:00 am

newbgold, I'm very glad you've decided to continue with your incredibly detailed posts. No matter what my opinion of the specific content is, very few if any of the forum members here, let alone elsewhere on the web, make posts about this stuff like you do. Please continue in this regard!

That was the good part. You may have noticed that I myself have not posted in many years... so if I came back to post now, there is probably a strong reason for it. In fact the reason is that I disagree with almost everything you have said in this topic so vehemently that I simply could not avoid writing about it.

Soviet women were not ugly or fat in the 60s-80s. For that matter, American women - despite obviously being better-looking back then, as you have pointed out - were not more attractive! (In fact, looking at old US photos I can barely understand how the men back then found women of the 70s attractive, let alone 80s... but I suppose I digress.)

As several other posters already mentioned to you, genetics simply cannot change so quickly. Just speaking in terms of facial attractiveness, which is the most obvious genetic marker in this sense: if you look at Russian versus American women (even just white women) in their 20s right now, there is simply no comparison. American women have all the beauty products business can think to market at them, yet because their facial structure tends to be almost unnatural-looking - you know, that typical "valley girl" face - all the makeup in the world cannot help enough. So it is clear from that alone that American women of, say, two generations ago must have been significantly less attractive than their Soviet counterparts.

More anecdotally, just about my entire extended family is spread throughout the former Soviet Union so I have been told a vast amount about that era. So let me tell you, this concept of average young USSR women being overweight, let alone obese, is absolute nonsense. The ideal of finding a slim girl at university (and taking her on a romantic walk in the park...) was far more Soviet than American in the 1970s, when the latter were more concerned with hippie freedom. (Now if we were talking about women in their 40s and older, that would be a whole 'nother story - but we're not talking about that age group, are we?)

You mentioned to another poster that they were cherry-picking examples of Soviet models, yet if anything your understanding of US women back in the day seems much closer to that. This is relevant here because the only way you could reasonably say USSR women were heavier is if you compared them to the American models of the day. Now I will freely admit that US women were much more likely to be model-looking back then, of course, so it's much less of an extreme... but the actual problem with this comparison is that the ideal look back then was too slim, if anything. Soviet women did indeed tend to work physically significantly more on average, so they could not follow such an ideal even if there was one like it there - but you know what's much worse than having a few extra pounds for good reason? Starting a literal trend toward anorexia, which eventually reached a peak in the 2000s when there was mass hysteria about it. (But now of course we have very much the opposite problem...)

I also have to disagree with you in terms of favourable time periods for men. I've already stated some of my opinions regarding earlier decades above, particularly about American women back then. But I want to say that the mid-90s to mid-2000s were generally an amazing time worldwide (in so many ways, not just related to this topic!), especially for men because there seemed to be a confluence of positive trends influencing female appearance and behaviour during that period.

You know me well enough, newbgold, to know that I am obviously not a troll. These are my genuine opinions on these topics. Again, though, I greatly appreciate your taking the time to write out your analytical posts about this.

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Re: What Russian/Ukrainian Women Looked Like In the Soviet E

Post by newbgold » August 17th, 2017, 6:13 am

I wrote a thread in Questions and Advice section on the p***y Paradise Factor (PPF).
I define PPF as the chances that a completely average man has in sleeping with a 6.5 looks woman.
And I write that PPF depends on conditions in society.
This is why we are a happier abroad forum in the first place - we are in a constant search for countries with the high value of the p***y Paradise Factor.

I compared p***y Paradise conditions in USA in 1974-80 and in USA of 2016-17 in Questions and Advice thread.

In this thread, I described p***y Paradise conditions in USSR of circa 1976-77, i.e. about 40 years ago.
tradcom disagrees with me on the Main Condition, i.e. on the beauty level of an average girl in 1970s USSR. I will write a separate response to his post.

But now, I will describe p***y Paradise conditions in today's Russia/Ukraine/Belarus:

0. Main Condition: Beauty level of an average woman
Above Average
- Russian/Ukrainian/Belorussian women can look quite decent, because they now take utmost care of their looks. They try to slim down and watch their weight. They apply makeup and lipstick. They are really compensating for all that was missing in the Soviet era or in the Yeltsin era. But I notice that Russian/Ukrainian women born after about 1993 look and dress no different than American women of the same age.
So, Russian/Ukrainian women older than about 46 (born before 1970) look terrible. Majority are landwhales. These are the women who came of age under communism. They look far worse than American women born before 1970.
Then, Russian/Ukrainian women of 35-45 (born in 1971-1981) are much better, but still not as many MILFs as among American women of the same age. Their coming of age took place under Yeltsin, during the transition from the Soviet way of thinking to the new Western way of thinking. This batch of women absorbed some Western sexy fashions and were first to learn how to properly take care of their weight and their clothing style.
And then, the absolutely best looking group are the women of about 24-34 (born in 1982-1992)! These are women who take obsessive care of their beauty. Their coming of age took place under Putin's first term, and that was the appearance of "glamour" culture. These women learned that they can "sell" their looks and get a mafia oligarch in exchange for their beauty. For this age group, watching their weight and growing their hair long and wearing sexy skirts is a barter that may get them the best food and best lifestyle. And Russian/Ukrainian women from this cohort generally look better than their American female peers.
And finally, Russian/Ukrainian women 18-23 (born after 1993) look absolutely the same as American women of the same age. The same percentage of fatties, the same percentage of uglies, the same percentage of hotties, the same percentage of beauties, no difference at all. They don't look quite as good as the Russian/Ukrainian women who are slightly older. But they still take some care of themselves.

1a. Real Ratio:
Bad
- For some reason, a lot of boys were born in 1990s. But this is now true everywhere world wide. There is an excess of young men in all countries, Russia/Ukraine/Belarus included. I don't know why that is. The whole world is sausagefest with too many boys and too many young men.

1b. Perceived Ratio:
Historically Horrible!
- This is the main reason why dating has become hell for men today!
And this is the problem everywhere worldwide!
I think that online dating, social media, and especially tinder are responsible for this!
When tinder arose, women began to perceive that there are many more men than in reality. They now have a distorted sense of the gender ratio. They now think that it's raining men everywhere. I think that those people who developed tinder killed it for almost all men, because women's perception of the number of men is skewed. As a result, they have a huge abundance mentality. I don't think that ever in history of humankind did they women ever have such a skewed sense of the true number of males.
I will also add another reason. The overwhelming majority of Russian women from WWII generation have mostly died. There is no more reminder for younger women what it would feel like to be lonely and involuntarily celibate. When Russian women from the war generation were still alive, they served as a living reminder that a woman must get a man fast or she will grow old alone. Today, most Russian women under about 27 never met a single woman from the war generation. So, they don't have the same scarcity mentality as just slightly older women. Thus, what was once a country with a historically high perceived gender ratio turned into a country with a historically low perceived gender ratio due to the dying off of the war generation and due to tinder.

2a. Warmth and Gentleness of an Average young woman:
Historically Horrible!
- This condition is unprecedentedly bad in Russia and Ukraine.
I will give the exact diagnosis to the majority of modern Russian and Ukrainian young women: atrophy of the soul.They seem to have none.
They are the coldest and harshest creatures that inhabit this earth. I am sometimes surprised that people, let alone women, are capable of such lack of any warmth, gentleness, tenderness, empathy, or compassion. I didn't know this was possible.
They will not throw you a life jacket if you are drowning, screaming, and begging. They will walk by with a cold and harsh air about them.
And because they completely lack warmth and gentleness, they expect their man to not have any warmth and gentleness too. they see any show of warmth and gentleness as weakness.
If a man doesn't have tattoos, Russian/Ukrainian women criticize him: "you are not a real man, a real man must have tribal tattoos on the arm, neck, and chest!"
If a man likes to listen to romantic oldies ballads, Russian/Ukrainian women perceive that as weakness: "only losers and creeps listen to Vysotsky, a real man must listen to gangsta rap music!"
Yes, they are that narrow-minded! Far less forgiving than American women if you are not a thug or not a bad boy.
What could be the reasons for this?
Russia already has its own very angry and vapid popular culture. Russian TV constantly shows soap operas and TV serials where women scream at each other, gossip, envy one another, spread lies and rumors. Russian TV soaps are the most vomit inducing things to watch. So much female anger and melodrama on TV. And there is also a lot of anger over the state of their economy and the state of their society in general.
Russia has its own homegrown reality shows, and they have their own social media networks. This forms the first layer that destroys female warmth and gentleness.
In addition to this, Russians are getting all the same reality shows and social media from USA. And this forms the second layer of spite and vapidity on top of the first homegrown one.
American women only have Facebook that reduces their warmth and gentleness, but Russian/Ukrainian women also have VKontakte and they still have Facebook on top of that too! So, female warmth and gentleness gets a double strike.

2b. Societal Preselection of Male Properties as Attractive
Historically Horrible!
- This is another problem that causes dating for men to turn into hell!
The modern media is infecting young women with lookism against men.
Russian society preselects completely unattainable traits as attractive. Russian media portrays either tall domineering tattooed hunks or extremely wealthy oligarchs or mafia thugs as the only attractive types of men. A regular man is always portrayed as a wimp and a "subhuman" in a way, as someone who is by definition not worthy.
Thus, the society is preselecting either extremely unattainable male looks, i.e. chiseled jaws, chiseled abs, huge muscles as the only attractive type of looks (and so does American media too). But Russian women get exposed to their own homegrown hunks and to hunks from American media too. So, double strike!
And society is preselecting enormous amount of money and oligarch status as attractive. He must have a Mercedes! He must have a condo in Dubai! An engineer with stable salary is always portrayed as a wimp and a loser, as unattractive by definition. But this oligarch wealth level is unattainable to a regular man. You must either be born into it or maybe get there through crime. American media also sometimes likes to portray very large money as attractive, but not nearly to the same extent as Russian media. Russia is doing it much, much more!
And society is preselecting thugs and mafia, which doesn't happen in USA that much. Russian/Ukrainian women are obsessed with men who look and act like thugs.
And all these preselected traits are generally unattainable by a regular man.

3a. Economic Mobility:
Very Bad
- After the collapse of USSR in 1991-92, it had gotten much harder for a young man to build a nice career. Conversely, most men became poorer. It became much harder to establish yourself and attain stable salary as a man. After the stock crashes of 2008 and the Great Recession hitting former USSR, it got even harder for a young man to get any decent profession.

3b. Economic Equality:
Terrible
- In Russia, you have Putin and his clique of few oligarch owning majority of the wealth. On the other hand, majority of the population is barely getting by. Gone are Soviet times when everyone was poor, but equal. Today, Russia, Ukraine, most other former republics are some of the most stratified countries in the world. Much more so than USA. If it weren't so, then there would not have been such a high concentration of female gold diggers in FSU. Gold digging behavior is a direct result of a society where there is a great discrepancy between the rich and the poor. Obsessing with oligarchs and trips to Dubai is the direct product of the society being stratified. And this is bad for a regular man, as he is automatically excluded from the dating pool just virtue of not being an oligarch. Gold digging doesn't happen in true p***y paradises.

4a. Percentage of Dominant and Aggressive Men
Very High, so Very Bad
- There are too many men with tattoos, large muscles, on steroids, behaving like mafia thugs, full of steroid rage. While America has the "Chad Thundercock", Russia has the "ultra". The Russian douchebag is far too dangerous than an American douchebag.

4b. Public Concentration of Females
Average
- This is the only condition that's significantly better than in America. Russian women rely on cars less, so many of them can be seen and approached on the street.

4c. Societal Treatment of Average men:
Bad
- Russian/Ukrainian men live to be only 64-65! This is a third world life span. While women live to be 75-76. There is mass incarceration of men, very large numbers of male suicides, many workplace accidents, which take too many male lives. There is the army, which almost all men have to go through. Yikes,I would not want to be a regular man in today's FSU!


Verdit: Russia and Ukraine and other former Soviet republics are greater p***y hells than USA for a regular LOCAL man. But they used to be near paradises for American men in 2002-2007 due to USA still having prestige as the winner with Cold War at that time. But now,this is not the case anymore even for American men.

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Re: What Russian/Ukrainian Women Looked Like In the Soviet E

Post by Winston » August 18th, 2017, 9:41 am

Voyager1 wrote:One of the things I noticed in Russia and Ukraine is that people eat mostly the whole animal and throw no part of it away. They often eat pork fat (in Ukraine it's Salo) whereas we would cut that part off and throw it away. I wonder if this at all contributes to obesity in both men and women as they get older.

Image
Don't you know anything about nutrition? Fat from meat doesn't make you fat. The carbs in breads, pastas and sugars do. This is easily proven and testable. Thats why the atkins diet works so well.

Russians do eat a lot of bread but their bread is healthier and more natural.
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Re: What Russian/Ukrainian Women Looked Like In the Soviet E

Post by Winston » August 18th, 2017, 9:45 am

Newbgold,
Where did hollywood get all those gorgeous thin russian girls during the 70s to make james bond films? Were they really russian?

Have you seen lee harvey oswalds russian wife marina? She looks ok and was thin too. Was she average or above or below by russian standards during the 60s?

Do people in russia discuss this difference in how the women have changed? If so how do russian scientists explain the big changes?
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Re: What Russian/Ukrainian Women Looked Like In the Soviet E

Post by Voyager1 » August 18th, 2017, 2:28 pm

Winston wrote:Don't you know anything about nutrition? Fat from meat doesn't make you fat. The carbs in breads, pastas and sugars do. This is easily proven and testable. Thats why the atkins diet works so well.

Russians do eat a lot of bread but their bread is healthier and more natural.
I am not sure that you can just eat mounds and mounds of fat and not get fat. I am sure it contributes to overall weight gain. Why don't we ask the HouseMD?

Also, people who are eating animal fat usually are mixing it with other carbs such as bread and rice.

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Re: What Russian/Ukrainian Women Looked Like In the Soviet E

Post by newbgold » August 18th, 2017, 4:38 pm

Where did hollywood get all those gorgeous thin russian girls during the 70s to make james bond films? Were they really russian?
They were probably not Russian. They were American actresses playing Russian characters.
Have you seen lee harvey oswalds russian wife marina? She looks ok and was thin too. Was she average or above or below by russian standards during the 60s?
I just looked her up using the google image seaarch. She is not overweight, but she does have quite a large man-jaw!
But by beauty, such a woman was probably in the 90-th percentile compared to her Russian female peers in that generation, i.e. better looking than 90% of women that age.
Do people in russia discuss this difference in how the women have changed? If so how do russian scientists explain the big changes?
There was a lot of discussion of this in 2000's.
This was when the new generation of Millennials started coming of age.
The most common explanation was that this new generation grew up after the breakup of USSR in 1991-92, and thus grew up eating a Western diet.
And the explanation was the the new batch of women now had Western values and learned how take care of their weight and their looks in a Western way.
But by now, everyone is used to these changes, and nobody discusses this anymore.

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