Taiwan is Boring, Repressed, Loveless, etc.

[Rock]

I don't doubt your experience in the least. I totally believe you.

Truth is, people act very different towards different people. The attention and reactions I got out of other kids and adults when I was growing-up was radically different than what my sister received.

For whatever reason, most Chinese you encounter in America and perhaps Taiwan probably don't like you. They may think you're weird or creepy and for no fault of your own. And the fact that you crave their attention so much only makes it worse. You're just on a very different wavelength than they are. Some others including westerners have similar experiences and perceptions as you. But then there are others, both western and Asian, who don't. Some may even have experiences which are opposite to yours. It depends on the person and a lot of other things too.

Don't feel bad about your cousins. I sure don't have as many as you. But they ignore me all the same. When I moved to my second high school during my junior year, I thought I had it made. One of my cousins, a girl, went to that school, was in my same class, and was very popular. Guess what? She didn't even acknowledge me as a relative. In the whole two years, we probably exchanged no more than a few polite sentences and only when situations forced it. That's when I learned, popular sisters and cousins will not help you. You're on your own in the tough American social environment. If you're not popular, if you're a loner type, you gotta be independent and carve out your own life whatever it may be.

I'm glad that I at least came from a country and background which provided the resources to explore the whole world and find my own niches.

Well at least you're one step ahead of Momopi, and you understand the role of "vibes" and energy, whereas he doesn't believe in that stuff and doesn't factor it into his equation. But Momopi is very smart and knowledgeable no doubt. It's just that his view of reality is not as open and metaphysical based.

A lot of Chinese girls when they look at me, automatically decide that they don't like me. Something about the way I carry myself turns them off. Or maybe they sense that I don't have a "Chinese soul".

It's not all about looks.

Did you tell your classmates that she was your cousin? Did they know? Wouldn't your cousin's enemies use it against her that she was stuck up to you?

A psychic in Berkeley said I was American in my past life. That might be why I've never really felt Chinese. I don't know.

On the other hand, in the PH everyone gives me a look of respect and admiration, more so than they usually give white foreigners. I never get nasty stares from the guys there, even when I'm rude to them or tell them off.

Winston

Some people do get lots of attention, dates, and sex in Taiwan. That's a fact. I know of many personally. And a lot of these get nothing back in their home countries. So Taiwan is a great social boost for some guys.

Its true that for whatever reason, some guys turn girls off in Taiwan. When I used to have lots of gal pals, I would sometimes ask them what they thought of certain guys, sometimes just strangers we observed when people watching. There responses would sometimes surprise me. They might say he looks like a bad person or make some comment about his eyebrows being too close together or some other bizarre thing. With others, they would say he looks, so cute, approachable, innocent, friendly, etc. They would not comment specifically on whether the guy was handsome, average, or ugly unless I phrased my question very specifically - Do you think he is handsome / ugly / ordinary? They tended to observe lots of details instead of focusing on how good looking the guy was.

I used to have a friend, virtual ABC just like you. He was a nice enough guy and treated his mates well. He probably met at least 10 of my female Taiwanese friends at different stages. They all did not like him. Some of them thought he stared at their tits. Others thought he was a spaced-out pervert. A few were polite to his face but kept a distance. Others were cold and sometimes even rude when he tried to talk to them. They all seemed to think he was a loser. When I asked them why, they could never give me a logical answer. It was just the feeling they got from him. I reckon this is what you mean by vibes.

It sounds like, from all you've said, that you young Taiwanese girls can't stand you but the Filipinas love you. Why try to swim upstream. Focus you attention where its wanted.

[momopi]

Stereotype (East) Asian Princess

Her alphabet is:
A is for Armani
B is for Burberry
C is for Channel
D is for Dior
E is for Elliott Lucca
F is for Ferragamo
G is for Gucci...

(She can be flexible depending on the guy's current income level.)




Her ideal boyfriend is "3H":
1. Height: you can groom a tall guy, but cannot turn a short guy into tall guy.
2. Handsome: you can motivate a good looking guy to make more money, but an ugly guy is, ugly.
3. High income: guys who flaunt their money suck, but I will never marry poor!




She will:
* Always have at least 1 or more boyfriend(s), plus additional "backup".
* Happily give you her # for texting, if she likes you, even if she has a BF. See: "backup".
* Cling to your arm and make you carry her purse.
* Never degrade herself to date some dude with yellow fever on dating sites looking for an "Asian princess", at least not until she is past her expiry date.
* Get together with her girlfriends and discuss her man's size in "hands", i.e. "he's 3 and half hands long!" "wooo!"
* Spend her parent's money until she gets married, then she spends her husband's money. Me? Work? I have an appointment for my hair extension!





After marriage, she will:
* Transition toward a stereotype ajuma and start nit-picking everything
* Act frugal in front of husband and family. When nobody is looking, she shops at South Coast Plaza and hides her purchases in obvious-looking brown bags.
* Drive with a full-facial sun shield over her head, until the cops pull her over (standard of beauty shifts from tanned to pale)
* Stop using the dish washer for its intended purpose, and insists that you do the dishes by hand
* Send her kids to cram school so she can brag about their grades (or musical ability) to friends and family. "Aiya! My son went to Prague to attend music camp!"
* Demand to purchase appliances like this, even if you're a family of 3:

[Winston]

Then WTF are you still doing in Taiwan?

You don't seem to be the adventurous, bold guy you make yourself out to be. Far from it.

On the contrary, you actually come off as complacent and sluggish, choosing to passively accept a dissatisfying situation rather than show any willingness to take steps to remedy it.

We have seen this pussified attitude from you all too often before.

And since you refuse to get off your ass to find solutions to problems, you deserve the misery you get.

I'm working on stuff. I am adventurous. I was adventurous in Utah and Arizona, even though I was alone. See here:

http://www.happierabroad.com/Southwest_Photos.htm

Taiwan is boring and not that pretty. The girls are all look and don't touch. No one makes eye contact with me.

What solution is there?

If the expert expat Ladislav tells me there is no solution, then what solution do you have?

Give me one that works, that gets me attention in Taiwan, and fun and gets girls to open up to me, and I'll pay you for it.

Otherwise, you are all BS and only here to bring others down. See my warning to you in the announcements board.

I already gave you a solution just a short while back.

As a matter of fact, I am one of the few people on your board who ever gave you practical, no-nonsense solutions whenever you got yourself in a jam.

The problem is that any time solutions are offered, you either find flimsy excuses not to take them up, or you hurl childish, angry responses like, "don't tell me what to do!" or "you have no right telling me what to do!"

It is quite clear that you don't have a hope in hell of scoring with the ladies of Taiwan. There really is only one thing to do. Yet you refuse to acknowledge this simple reality.

And once again, as always, you bitterly wail and complain for all to hear. But then if you actually took action, it would go against your lazy nature. Like I said, you are not adventurous, or bold, or decisive, and the facts bear that out here. When your back is against the wall, you choose passive inaction.

Just listen to yourself here:

Taiwan is boring and not that pretty. The girls are all look and don't touch. No one makes eye contact with me.

What solution is there? ...


Give me one that works, that gets me attention in Taiwan, and fun and gets girls to open up to me, and I'll pay you for it.

And you call yourself an "outside the box" thinker? Hell, I can't think of anyone more IN the box than you!

F you swincor! I asked for a solution so that I can see or experience this "dating paradise" that SOME foreigners talk about in Taiwan. Not just to leave it.

What does "in the box" vs. "out of the box" have to do with this? It has no relevance and you are taking a cheap shot at me by tying something totally unrelated just to insult me. That is low, illogical and unintelligent.

How can I be the most in the box person you've ever met? LOL That's such an asinine statement. Go talk to all 53 of my cousins. NOT ONE of them can hold an intelligent conversation. NOT ONE of them has a blog or written any articles. Even my MD cousin who makes a lot of money, can provide any intelligent conversation. All he can do is recite stuff to you that he learned in medical school. He has zero independent thought.

How am I more "in the box" than such drones with zero independent thought, despite all the out of the box articles I've written?!

What an asinine statement.

You're outta here swincor. I'm banning you since you don't even have basic intelligence and your posts are nonsense and trash with no insight.

Audios for the second time. This time I'm banning your email too, so that eventually you will run out of emails to create accounts with.

[Winston]

Stereotype (East) Asian Princess

Her alphabet is:
A is for Armani
B is for Burberry
C is for Channel
D is for Dior
E is for Elliott Lucca
F is for Ferragamo
G is for Gucci...

(She can be flexible depending on the guy's current income level.)


Her ideal boyfriend is "3H":
1. Height: you can groom a tall guy, but cannot turn a short guy into tall guy.
2. Handsome: you can motivate a good looking guy to make more money, but an ugly guy is, ugly.
3. High income: guys who flaunt their money suck, but I will never marry poor!


She will:
* Always have at least 1 or more boyfriend(s), plus additional "backup".
* Happily give you her # for texting, if she likes you, even if she has a BF. See: "backup".
* Cling to your arm and make you carry her purse.
* Never degrade herself to date some dude with yellow fever on dating sites looking for an "Asian princess", at least not until she is past her expiry date.
* Get together with her girlfriends and discuss her man's size in "hands", i.e. "he's 3 and half hands long!" "wooo!"
* Spend her parent's money until she gets married, then she spends her husband's money. Me? Work? I have an appointment for my hair extension!


After marriage, she will:
* Transition toward a stereotype ajuma and start nit-picking everything
* Act frugal in front of husband and family. When nobody is looking, she shops at South Coast Plaza and hides her purchases in obvious-looking brown bags.
* Drive with a full-facial sun shield over her head, until the cops pull her over (standard of beauty shifts from tanned to pale)
* Stop using the dish washer for its intended purpose, and insists that you do the dishes by hand
* Send her kids to cram school so she can brag about their grades (or musical ability) to friends and family. "Aiya! My son went to Prague to attend music camp!"
* Demand to purchase appliances like this, even if you're a family of 3:

So true. That's exactly how spoiled stuck up east asian princesses are like.

So you do know what these girls are like then! Then why do you give the impression that you think that every guy who doesn't meet their standards is a loser and that the problem is them? The average guy isn't going to meet all those standards above.

Such women are catty, petty, overly materialistic, and not intellectual or spiritual at all. Very unevolved. No inner life or inner riches. No love of knowledge or wisdom. No appreciation of Plato, Socrates or Shakespeare. No deep rich culture or soul.

So the problem is them then, not the average guys that they reject for petty reasons.

[Winston]

Winston

Some people do get lots of attention, dates, and sex in Taiwan. That's a fact. I know of many personally. And a lot of these get nothing back in their home countries. So Taiwan is a great social boost for some guys.

Its true that for whatever reason, some guys turn girls off in Taiwan. When I used to have lots of gal pals, I would sometimes ask them what they thought of certain guys, sometimes just strangers we observed when people watching. There responses would sometimes surprise me. They might say he looks like a bad person or make some comment about his eyebrows being too close together or some other bizarre thing. With others, they would say he looks, so cute, approachable, innocent, friendly, etc. They would not comment specifically on whether the guy was handsome, average, or ugly unless I phrased my question very specifically - Do you think he is handsome / ugly / ordinary? They tended to observe lots of details instead of focusing on how good looking the guy was.

I used to have a friend, virtual ABC just like you. He was a nice enough guy and treated his mates well. He probably met at least 10 of my female Taiwanese friends at different stages. They all did not like him. Some of them thought he stared at their tits. Others thought he was a spaced-out pervert. A few were polite to his face but kept a distance. Others were cold and sometimes even rude when he tried to talk to them. They all seemed to think he was a loser. When I asked them why, they could never give me a logical answer. It was just the feeling they got from him. I reckon this is what you mean by vibes.

It sounds like, from all you've said, that you young Taiwanese girls can't stand you but the Filipinas love you. Why try to swim upstream. Focus you attention where its wanted.

That makes a lot of sense Rock. I've seen a lot of girls dislike guys for no logical reason too, just because. Even many American girls do that too.

Maybe they can sense an alpha male vs. a beta male from his vibes? Or maybe they are picky about little things.

Did this ABC guy you know act western or asian? Did he have an "asian soul" and manner about him?

Maybe you can ask your Taiwanese girlfriend about this. Ask her why some TW girls dislike guys and are repelled by them, for no logical reason.


Anyhow, why then did you make it out to be the case that any average Joe can go to Taiwan and pick up girls easily and that it is a dating paradise for them? Was that your position?

When you say some, do you mean a majority, minority, or 50/50?

How do these "some guys" get TW girls? By chatting them up in public places? In clubs? Or through work and friends?

Also, you don't deny the fact that in basic Taiwanese culture, strangers do NOT generally talk to each other in public (except for bored elderly people who have nothing better to do), which is another factor against, right? Any Taiwanese person can tell you that that's true, albeit reluctantly. Girls are especially closed off with strangers. Taiwanese men do not usually meet their women in public by casual chat ups. People usually meet in Taiwan through organized activities like work, school, and extracurricular stuff. That's part of the normal culture. Surely you don't deny that do you?

Furthermore, if Taiwan was "easy" then so many TW guys wouldn't be going to Vietnam or China to find brides right?

Finally, do most foreigners in TW get young hot girls, or the women over 30 whom TW guys don't want?

Thanks for your sensible input.

Winston

[Repatriate]

That makes a lot of sense Rock. I've seen a lot of girls dislike guys for no logical reason too, just because. Even many American girls do that too.

Maybe they can sense an alpha male vs. a beta male from his vibes? Or maybe they are picky about little things.

Did this ABC guy you know act western or asian? Did he have an "asian soul" and manner about him?

Winston it's already been kind of established that TW girls tend to like guys that fit into a certain mold. Think Jay Chou. That's the kind of guy they like..not too short, lanky skinny, dresses well, and has a soft spoken "cool" personality. The guys I know who do rather well with these types of asian women are usually hipster types who are trendy because Taiwanese women are very trend orientated. If you don't look the part you will probably get shut out.

I do think it's easier for western foreign men to pick up on the 30 something women who are past the competitive relationship stage though. It's the same in Japan..there are a lot of 30 something spinsters and very few men who are interested. This means some will go foreign when it's available.

Maybe you can ask your Taiwanese girlfriend about this. Ask her why some TW girls dislike guys and are repelled by them, for no logical reason.


Anyhow, why then did you make it out to be the case that any average Joe can go to Taiwan and pick up girls easily and that it is a dating paradise for them? Was that your position?

There is a logical reason. Honestly Winston, you look like one of those Chinese uncle types. You don't look young and are not hip (in the ways that matters to TW) plus you are interested in certain parts of American culture that's completely alien to the TW and you act in a manner that probably turns them off completely.

Filipinos are just way more westernized as well so their perspective is completely different.

Finally, do most foreigners in TW get young hot girls, or the women over 30 whom TW guys don't want?

I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of times it's the mid to late 30 something women. It's the same way in Japan and Korea. There's a lot of spinsters to go around that are easy pickings because the local men don't want any of that.

[Rock]

That makes a lot of sense Rock. I've seen a lot of girls dislike guys for no logical reason too, just because. Even many American girls do that too.

Maybe they can sense an alpha male vs. a beta male from his vibes? Or maybe they are picky about little things.

Did this ABC guy you know act western or asian? Did he have an "asian soul" and manner about him?

Maybe you can ask your Taiwanese girlfriend about this. Ask her why some TW girls dislike guys and are repelled by them, for no logical reason.


Anyhow, why then did you make it out to be the case that any average Joe can go to Taiwan and pick up girls easily and that it is a dating paradise for them? Was that your position?

When you say some, do you mean a majority, minority, or 50/50?

How do these "some guys" get TW girls? By chatting them up in public places? In clubs? Or through work and friends?

Also, you don't deny the fact that in basic Taiwanese culture, strangers do NOT generally talk to each other in public (except for bored elderly people who have nothing better to do), which is another factor against, right? Any Taiwanese person can tell you that that's true, albeit reluctantly. Girls are especially closed off with strangers. Taiwanese men do not usually meet their women in public by casual chat ups. People usually meet in Taiwan through organized activities like work, school, and extracurricular stuff. That's part of the normal culture. Surely you don't deny that do you?

Furthermore, if Taiwan was "easy" then so many TW guys wouldn't be going to Vietnam or China to find brides right?

Finally, do most foreigners in TW get young hot girls, or the women over 30 whom TW guys don't want?

Thanks for your sensible input.

Winston

Winston


1. I’m in Thailand now. I really think you would like it for a short term visit at least. I’m pretty sure there’s a lot more variety than Phils.

2. I don’t think the princesses Momopi refers to are usually good for long term quality relationships. I mean, who wants to put up with that crap all the time. Better for shorter term (a few days, weeks, or months) and you have be able to out-game them.

3. I believe Taiwan still has a lot of attractive to hot girls who are down to earth, not princesses. These types can make great long term girlfriends. In my experience, I have found a much higher percentage of sharks and spoiled girls in the top tier Chinese cities than Taiwan.

4. Most of the westerners I know who do well with Taiwan women date younger ones. The guys in their 20s pull anything from 18-27. The guys in their 30s often do the same believe it or not. By late 30s, its prolly time to move on to a new country if you haven’t settled w/a long term girlfriend or wife.

5. Almost all the girls I’ve dated in Taiwan fell in the 18-28 range when I knew them with the bulk falling in the 22-24 range, fresh out of college. None had children nor had been married before. None of the longer term ones were princesses but they tended to be tall and shapely.

6. The western guys I know who don’t do well with Taiwan girls or lack the confidence to approach them tend to pursue Filipina and Indonesian contract workers, not older Taiwanese women. Howver, many of these contract workers they date are also older, have children back at home, and are very unattractive physically. These types of guys get no social benefit from being in Taiwan, would be better off in Phils, etc. Carnegies is the only pick-up place I know for older Taiwan ladies but I think it is more geared to short term foreign visitors, middle aged expats, and extremely horny guys who strike-out for the night out at the regular clubs.

7. When I consider westerners I know, which ones are most popular with Taiwan girls, and which are not, there’s not a lot rhyme and reason, at least at first glance. I used to know a hostel character and would visit him sometimes. Of his 6 hostel mates I got to know, 1 was tied down, 1 did not go out much, another 2 focused on SE Asian contract workers, and the last 2 pulled a lot of Taiwanese women. One the successful ones was a very young Canadian ex-con who would just bring back random sluts he met out and about. The other was a late 30s quiet German guy who amazingly pulled several very attractive early 20s student types in just 3 months. I honestly don’t know how he did it. He didn’t even speak Chinese. There was just something about him I guess. I’m sure he would get nothing in the States or Germany. My point is, the westerners who do well in Taiwan are often average Joes or worse back home.

8. You asked how westerners meet TW girls. For my case, I’ve covered the specifics in depth in previous posts complete with examples. As for other guys, it depends. My former tenant told me he and his buddies (other western students at Chenchi Uni) almost always got approached by girls in clubs when they hung-out as a group. So they didn’t have to do anything but just show-up. That surprised me but I believe him. He left me digital copies of his TW photo collection which I can show you sometime and I also saw many of the girls he brought back to the crib. Others I know are just real bold and hit on multiple girls until they find a friendly one. I will have more to say about this topic when I get back to Taiwan.

9. The TW guys who get wives from Vietnam tend to be less desirable – relatively poor / physically unattractive in some way / older / repulsive personality – who may themselves be very picky about age and looks. So the only way for them to get a young pretty wife is to search a country like Vietnam.

10. I have a good TW female friend who married a Spanish guy. I told her about your site and I think she is open to talking about these types of Qs. I will email her sometime and ask her if she’s willing to answer some of your Qs by email.

[Repatriate]

8. You asked how westerners meet TW girls. For my case, I’ve covered the specifics in depth in previous posts complete with examples. As for other guys, it depends. My former tenant told me he and his buddies (other western students at Chenchi Uni) almost always got approached by girls in clubs when they hung-out as a group. So they didn’t have to do anything but just show-up. That surprised me but I believe him. He left me digital copies of his TW photo collection which I can show you sometime and I also saw many of the girls he brought back to the crib. Others I know are just real bold and hit on multiple girls until they find a friendly one. I will have more to say about this topic when I get back to Taiwan.

Just as a comparison to where i'm living now..

Interesting you mention all this but the white guys who do well in Thailand tend to have a few common traits that i've seen..they are usually very soft spoken, stylish, and smooth. Thai women generally don't like the arrogant, macho, or brash type. Then again amusingly enough I rarely see an attractive Thai girl (tall, shapely, and hot) with a young or old western guy though. I'm not saying this to put down western men but there is something to be said about what people consider attractive traits in women.

What you think is attractive may in fact be not so great to the local guys which is why those women are pretty willing to go outside the Taiwanese circles. From what i've seen western men and expats in general tend to go for the darker skinned asian women. These women would be considered appealing in U.S. where there is a severe shortage of decent attractive women but in Asia it's simply fishing at the shore.

I've heard guys elsewhere talk about how easy it was to meet women but when they show what they are scoring with it's pretty average or below average locally speaking. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Winston]

Swincor,
I see you've re-registered. You a-hole.

I just wanted to make a point to you.

How do you know I don't have a chance in hell with TW women? If I was working here and involved in extracurricular activities, how do you know my results wouldn't be different?

And what makes YOU an expert in Taiwan? What makes you a know it all? From the looks of it, you aren't an expert in anything. You are just a naysayer with no qualifications.

Bottom line is, if drunk average looking loser expats can get laid in TW, then why can't I? I am much higher quality than them.

[Winston]

That makes a lot of sense Rock. I've seen a lot of girls dislike guys for no logical reason too, just because. Even many American girls do that too.

Maybe they can sense an alpha male vs. a beta male from his vibes? Or maybe they are picky about little things.

Did this ABC guy you know act western or asian? Did he have an "asian soul" and manner about him?

Winston it's already been kind of established that TW girls tend to like guys that fit into a certain mold. Think Jay Chou. That's the kind of guy they like..not too short, lanky skinny, dresses well, and has a soft spoken "cool" personality. The guys I know who do rather well with these types of asian women are usually hipster types who are trendy because Taiwanese women are very trend orientated. If you don't look the part you will probably get shut out.

I do think it's easier for western foreign men to pick up on the 30 something women who are past the competitive relationship stage though. It's the same in Japan..there are a lot of 30 something spinsters and very few men who are interested. This means some will go foreign when it's available.

Maybe you can ask your Taiwanese girlfriend about this. Ask her why some TW girls dislike guys and are repelled by them, for no logical reason.


Anyhow, why then did you make it out to be the case that any average Joe can go to Taiwan and pick up girls easily and that it is a dating paradise for them? Was that your position?

There is a logical reason. Honestly Winston, you look like one of those Chinese uncle types. You don't look young and are not hip (in the ways that matters to TW) plus you are interested in certain parts of American culture that's completely alien to the TW and you act in a manner that probably turns them off completely.

Filipinos are just way more westernized as well so their perspective is completely different.

Finally, do most foreigners in TW get young hot girls, or the women over 30 whom TW guys don't want?

I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of times it's the mid to late 30 something women. It's the same way in Japan and Korea. There's a lot of spinsters to go around that are easy pickings because the local men don't want any of that.

That's what I guessed too. But Rock claims that any average Joe can get girls in TW. How can that be? Average Joes aren't better than me and their intelligence is far lower than mine. I am far more interesting than most people obviously and have a lot to share.

Just cause I'm a bit chubby doesn't make me an uncle type. I've always looked naive and innocent and boyish. Not an uncle type at all. Nor do I act like one. I act like a westerner and that is considered unacceptable in TW. I think the only ABC's that do well here are those that act Chinese and have a Chinese soul and mind too. A Chinese who act white is not liked here.

Doesn't that make sense?

Many tell me I look a lot younger than my age though.

And besides, the average Joes that do well here don't look any better than me.

When you say trendy, do you mean just in terms of clothes? Anyone can put on trendy clothes.

But what about the fact that in TW people don't talk to strangers unless they are both involved in organized activities? That IS part of the culture. So why are you all not taking it into consideration?

What did you mean by "you are interested in certain parts of American culture that's completely alien to the TW"? I didn't understand that.

[Winston]

8. You asked how westerners meet TW girls. For my case, I’ve covered the specifics in depth in previous posts complete with examples. As for other guys, it depends. My former tenant told me he and his buddies (other western students at Chenchi Uni) almost always got approached by girls in clubs when they hung-out as a group. So they didn’t have to do anything but just show-up. That surprised me but I believe him. He left me digital copies of his TW photo collection which I can show you sometime and I also saw many of the girls he brought back to the crib. Others I know are just real bold and hit on multiple girls until they find a friendly one. I will have more to say about this topic when I get back to Taiwan.

Just as a comparison to where i'm living now..

Interesting you mention all this but the white guys who do well in Thailand tend to have a few common traits that i've seen..they are usually very soft spoken, stylish, and smooth. Thai women generally don't like the arrogant, macho, or brash type. Then again amusingly enough I rarely see an attractive Thai girl (tall, shapely, and hot) with a young or old western guy though. I'm not saying this to put down western men but there is something to be said about what people consider attractive traits in women.

What you think is attractive may in fact be not so great to the local guys which is why those women are pretty willing to go outside the Taiwanese circles. From what i've seen western men and expats in general tend to go for the darker skinned asian women. These women would be considered appealing in U.S. where there is a severe shortage of decent attractive women but in Asia it's simply fishing at the shore.

I've heard guys elsewhere talk about how easy it was to meet women but when they show what they are scoring with it's pretty average or below average locally speaking. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

True, but "soft spoken" is relative.

For example, in Taiwan I am not considered soft spoken. I am considered rude, overly direct, and abrasive. In the Philippines I am considered right in the middle, not soft or hard (personality-wise I mean). In California I am considered timid, too nice, and not aggressive enough (at least back in the 90's I was).

So it's all relative, like Ladislav says.

Repatriate, how do you think I'd do in Thailand? Do Thais act like the East Asian Orientals?

Btw, my friend in Korea teaching English said that hardly any of the expats there are dating any local women, and that it's a total freeze for him too.

Where are you living now Repatriate?

To Rock:

Rock, why don't you ask your girlfriend these questions and also ask her "How would an ABC who acts and behaves like a white person be looked at in Taiwan?" It's a good bet she will tell you that an ABC acting white and not Chinese will not be liked and will be a turn off. Ask her, for your learning experience, so you will see that it's more complicated than you think.

[Repatriate]

That's what I guessed too. But Rock claims that any average Joe can get girls in TW. How can that be? Average Joes aren't better than me and their intelligence is far lower than mine. I am far more interesting than most people obviously and have a lot to share.

Some guys just have that charm that a particular set of women in a nationality like. Just like how American women have their own distinct prejudices and affinities for certain types of men..ie. preference for the macho bad boys, etc..

There is also a particular set of women that go hunting for foreign men as well so guys like you may just fall under the radar. From my own experiences (and the ABCs I know in Taiwan) they have no issues dating there. Like I said though..you just have to look and act the part. The reason I mention "Jay Chou" as a model so often is because the ABC friends I have dress well and speak softly like that even if their personality may not be that way in the U.S. They are also swimming in dates and even marriage proposals from TW girsl.


The fact is Winston I believe Rock when he said these are average Joes but attraction is hardly ever logical.

Just cause I'm a bit chubby doesn't make me an uncle type. I've always looked naive and innocent and boyish. Not an uncle type at all. Nor do I act like one. I act like a westerner and that is considered unacceptable in TW. I think the only ABC's that do well here are those that act Chinese and have a Chinese soul and mind too. A Chinese who act white is not liked here.

Your actual personality may not be congruent with your looks but they don't know that and as often is the case with women first impressions make or break things. The ABC friends I have in Taiwan (Japan, Korea, and elsewhere) have personalities that are not "asian" in the least but they are very socially plugged when it comes to etiquette. I think native asian women love ABCs who have that foreign vibe (and personality in private) but still know how to be hip with the locals. That's how it is Winston..

When you say trendy, do you mean just in terms of clothes? Anyone can put on trendy clothes.

I mean the whole package..they know the social etiquette, cool places to hang out, and know the right people. It's not hard to plug into this. I did it without even trying in Thailand and met a lot of Thai Americans. Unfortunately they all hooked up (with hotties) and got married so i'm kind of left on my own these days although I am in a long term relationship as well.

But what about the fact that in TW people don't talk to strangers unless they are both involved in organized activities? That IS part of the culture. So why are you all not taking it into consideration?

Then it's up to you to meet these people in cafes, etc.. and work your way in to a social circle. Like I said once you are "plugged in" it's effortless.

What did you mean by "you are interested in certain parts of American culture that's completely alien to the TW"? I didn't understand that.

Conspiracies, aliens, psychics, argumentative debating, etc..

Can you carry on a conversation about music, clothes, films, etc.. they are interested in?

Here's another personality model you should look at if you want to know what Asian women think is the height of sexy in men... Tony Leung Chiu Wai. Go watch In the Mood for Love and 2046 and come back and tell me what you see there that is different from how you act

[Repatriate]

True, but "soft spoken" is relative.

For example, in Taiwan I am not considered soft spoken. I am considered rude, overly direct, and abrasive. In the Philippines I am considered right in the middle, not soft or hard (personality-wise I mean). In California I am considered timid, too nice, and not aggressive enough (at least back in the 90's I was).

This is true, it is relative. It's also up to you to adjust to the social situation presented to you. If your personality simply clashes with what's considered cool and attractive then you will end up on the outside very quickly.

Repatriate, how do you think I'd do in Thailand? Do Thais act like the East Asian Orientals?

Very much so but it also depends on what crowd you hang out with. A lot of expats settle in with anything ranging from party girls to prostitutes with very few "normal" women thrown in the mix. The party girls and more "casual" women are very chatty and open to meeting people. The expats i've seen who exclusively date the non-party/prostitute types have been here awhile, speak thai, and know their way around socially. It's just like what I said before..they are plugged in and know how to handle things.

Btw, my friend in Korea teaching English said that hardly any of the expats there are dating any local women, and that it's a total freeze for him too.

Is he a white guy, an ABC or what? If he's an ABC i'd say that is pretty unusual and he isn't hanging out with the right people. I will say that Koreans can be very uptight about foreigners dating "their" women...much more so than Chinese and Japanese people even but that all depends on the situation at hand too.

[Winston]

Repatriate,
The friend in Korea is a white guy. He is very outgoing like me, and smart, but very real and there is no fakeness about him at all. He is from NY and is no nonsense.

You say that once you're "plugged in" it's effortless.

How do you plug in? Do you have to get invited?

If so, and Taiwan is a dating/social paradise, then how come no one will show me this paradise that they talk about? I've offered Taiwan bloggers money to show me where the open girls are, but they make excuses.

Also, I don't get how in a land with ZERO eye contact with strangers (esp women) no one has a problem socially except me? I find that hard to believe. I am far more outgoing and communicative than most people. But no one has a problem except me?

That doesn't add up.

If you were in Taiwan right now, would you also make excuses about why you can't show me where these "open people and women" are?

You say that your Asian friends in TW have no dating issues. But they all meet girls through their friends right? None of them can chat them up or approach them in public cold, right? If so, then that is the conservative way to meet people, just like in America, through friends. So how is that any different from America?

Would you say that Taiwan is easier to plug in and break into cliques than America? If so, in what way? Both countries are cliquish. And cliquish countries are HARD to break in. It's not natural or easy, and doesn't flow naturally. So how can it be easy for everyone you know in Taiwan to meet people, yet f***ing impossible for me?

I am far more outgoing and communicative than the average person.

Finally, how can Thais be like Orientals? Thailand is in SE Asia and everyone says SE Asia is more open and relaxed. Right? Plus darker skinned Asians tend to be more open and less snotty, for some reason.


Rock: What are you doing in Thailand? I thought you couldn't leave here? Will you give us any trip reports? Or is it all classified?

[Winston]

Repatriate,
Btw, when you say "conform to social etiquette", don't you mean that you have to learn to act "fake" to fit into a rhythm of the group? I mean the type of fakeness that the group embodies?

If so, almost everyone here is opposed to acting fake to fit into a clique. That's why we are nonconformists here and do not play a role well. We transcend roles and prefer honesty and genuineness.

So how come you are good at acting fake? Didn't you fail to conform to American culture too?

Suppose you were new in Taiwan and didn't know anyone and no one approached you. What would you do about it exactly?