.

[abcdavid01]

Perhaps try Poland. I have read that Poland is one of the most devoutly Christian countries in the world (although I'm sure that there are all kinds of people in their big cities). Perhaps life might be very traditional in the Polish countryside? It wouldn't surprise me...
However, keep in mind that simple country folk are also generally the least likely to speak English (or any foreign languages).
But I have never been to Poland, so I can't say. I am much more liberal than most of you, so I prefer Hungary for myself. I don't yearn for any "Little House on the Prairie"-type stuff.

I can believe this. The best woman I've ever known was a High School classmate of mine, a Polish immigrant, accent and all. She was pretty devout, but also very intelligent. Knowing her is what made me think this "Happier Abroad" stuff might have some truth to it.

[djfourmoney]

The powers that be are very intelligent, but in a way, they are the most enslaved. They are the most hopeless in that they cannot ever let go of their delusions.

People like us? Any of us could drop out of the system entirely? Some of us will escape to freer parts of the world. Most of us will go our own way and practice minimalism or non-participation.

The so-called elites never will. They'll fully accomplishing the destruction of the world, I'm sure. We nor anyone can stop them, but ironically, they will stop themselves by causing the world (they need a world to live in too after all) to destruct.

Perhaps at one time, much earlier in this process of global degradation, it was possible to stop it or change its direction. Now, though, I am certain things are past the point of no return.

So any of us can do things to keep ourselves a little freer, or live a better life in the meantime, but in the end, all we'll do is inherit the ashes of the world. There's no safe place. No place to run.

That is the doom I speak of often, and the doom I see in many posts here and elsewhere. We all have a feeling or outright know that it is too late. There will be no happy ending. It is merely a question of what to do while waiting for the end.

+1 I think it is too late for guys to do much! Because now there's so many divorced guys & they haven't formed any large group to stand up to feminism. Now it really is too late because if guys did stand up they'll be sent to prison for "stalking" or "terrorism" and no-one will care. Bring on the endgame and give me popcorn as I've tried to help guys, but I've found they don't want it.

That's not true... The reason why MGOTW will never work is because its made of of men only and mostly White men.

There reasons your two biggest pool of support (Women and Minorities) is skeptical. Any movement that's largely male and largely White is doom to failure, see 2012 election results.

White males may be seen as the most economically viable but as a collective you are responsible for some of the worst tragedies in human history and won't completely walk away from it.

Men's Rights Advocates should almost immediately distance itself from its misogyny and racial bigotry. They aren't so until that happens, no movement, no change. (it would make their movement smaller, the same applies to the Tea Party)

They are also attacking marriage and making the extreme Liberal argument for them which is actually agreeing to your own demise. It might take a few more decades but we might soon understand what really happen to the Mayans by experiencing it ourselves (Climate Change + Low Birth Rates in Western and Asian Countries).

For MRA to work you need Women such as Mommies Rising on your side (http://www.momsrising.org/) who want marriage, children and a society that supports men and women. Some recently called America's attitude towards traditional families as savage (no paid maternity leave for either father or mother) and no comprehensive child care system (free daycare and education including college).

For MRA to draw support from African-American men and other minorities you're going to have to support issues that will truly level the playing field. When a White Male with a Felony on his record is still more likely to be employed than a Man of Color without any criminal history, you know the system is broken. Even if you wanna personalize what I just said, if you can't find a job, just consider (a) the low wage job a immigrant is doing that neither White or Black men want to do (because it ruins their chances at getting laid...) or the Man of Color who's employment just ran out. Like I said before, a White turned to me and said he was the wrong color to get help from EDD. Its this type of BS that needs to stop, if we're all in this together then recognize the system is willing to throw YOU and ME under the same bus. I will also say the color barrier in hiring is IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR not in the PUBLIC SECTOR.

Finally White men need to stop painting themselves as victims. Some want to claim reverse racism in the job market/education system, others want to say Feminism is the reason he can't find a date, etc, etc. Being a White male and playing the victim card without actually being one given the history of White males in Anglo Saxon countries; As I keep saying people will be largely skeptical or just flat out call you a liar...

Why? Wade Micheal Page was enticed by racist members of the US Army that Blacks got all the advantages in the military (when often times its the only job available to many Black men) and used this to join Skinhead groups outside of the military, where he eventually shot up a temple.

As I said and I am talking to you Leaving USA (and others who claim reserve racism), you can talk all you want about dozens of Blacks attacking a White person but in a country with a savage history of racism and slavery, not to mention oppressing women for a good chunk of the 19th and 20th Century you're not going to gain much sympathy from these groups, so it would do you some good to put down the racism card or you would be better off posting on Storm front.

[djfourmoney]

Perhaps try Poland. I have read that Poland is one of the most devoutly Christian countries in the world (although I'm sure that there are all kinds of people in their big cities). Perhaps life might be very traditional in the Polish countryside? It wouldn't surprise me...
However, keep in mind that simple country folk are also generally the least likely to speak English (or any foreign languages).
But I have never been to Poland, so I can't say. I am much more liberal than most of you, so I prefer Hungary for myself. I don't yearn for any "Little House on the Prairie"-type stuff.

I can believe this. The best woman I've ever known was a High School classmate of mine, a Polish immigrant, accent and all. She was pretty devout, but also very intelligent. Knowing her is what made me think this "Happier Abroad" stuff might have some truth to it.

I know a girl who came from a rural background in Poland and is not religious. Nice try and religion has its place but in my estimation given a world full of conflicts and sexual scandals with religion as a component; I haven't even gotten too the church's liberal values being replaced with those friendly to Capitalism and Conservatism in general.

I'd wouldn't be so hard on it but the loudest voices are of this ilk, the more moderate or liberal voices of the church are being drowned out.

[leavingusa]

The powers that be are very intelligent, but in a way, they are the most enslaved. They are the most hopeless in that they cannot ever let go of their delusions.

People like us? Any of us could drop out of the system entirely? Some of us will escape to freer parts of the world. Most of us will go our own way and practice minimalism or non-participation.

The so-called elites never will. They'll fully accomplishing the destruction of the world, I'm sure. We nor anyone can stop them, but ironically, they will stop themselves by causing the world (they need a world to live in too after all) to destruct.

Perhaps at one time, much earlier in this process of global degradation, it was possible to stop it or change its direction. Now, though, I am certain things are past the point of no return.

So any of us can do things to keep ourselves a little freer, or live a better life in the meantime, but in the end, all we'll do is inherit the ashes of the world. There's no safe place. No place to run.

That is the doom I speak of often, and the doom I see in many posts here and elsewhere. We all have a feeling or outright know that it is too late. There will be no happy ending. It is merely a question of what to do while waiting for the end.

+1 I think it is too late for guys to do much! Because now there's so many divorced guys & they haven't formed any large group to stand up to feminism. Now it really is too late because if guys did stand up they'll be sent to prison for "stalking" or "terrorism" and no-one will care. Bring on the endgame and give me popcorn as I've tried to help guys, but I've found they don't want it.

That's not true... The reason why MGOTW will never work is because its made of of men only and mostly White men.

There reasons your two biggest pool of support (Women and Minorities) is skeptical. Any movement that's largely male and largely White is doom to failure, see 2012 election results.

White males may be seen as the most economically viable but as a collective you are responsible for some of the worst tragedies in human history and won't completely walk away from it.

Men's Rights Advocates should almost immediately distance itself from its misogyny and racial bigotry. They aren't so until that happens, no movement, no change. (it would make their movement smaller, the same applies to the Tea Party)

They are also attacking marriage and making the extreme Liberal argument for them which is actually agreeing to your own demise. It might take a few more decades but we might soon understand what really happen to the Mayans by experiencing it ourselves (Climate Change + Low Birth Rates in Western and Asian Countries).

For MRA to work you need Women such as Mommies Rising on your side (http://www.momsrising.org/) who want marriage, children and a society that supports men and women. Some recently called America's attitude towards traditional families as savage (no paid maternity leave for either father or mother) and no comprehensive child care system (free daycare and education including college).

For MRA to draw support from African-American men and other minorities you're going to have to support issues that will truly level the playing field. When a White Male with a Felony on his record is still more likely to be employed than a Man of Color without any criminal history, you know the system is broken. Even if you wanna personalize what I just said, if you can't find a job, just consider (a) the low wage job a immigrant is doing that neither White or Black men want to do (because it ruins their chances at getting laid...) or the Man of Color who's employment just ran out. Like I said before, a White turned to me and said he was the wrong color to get help from EDD. Its this type of BS that needs to stop, if we're all in this together then recognize the system is willing to throw YOU and ME under the same bus. I will also say the color barrier in hiring is IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR not in the PUBLIC SECTOR.

Finally White men need to stop painting themselves as victims. Some want to claim reverse racism in the job market/education system, others want to say Feminism is the reason he can't find a date, etc, etc. Being a White male and playing the victim card without actually being one given the history of White males in Anglo Saxon countries; As I keep saying people will be largely skeptical or just flat out call you a liar...

Why? Wade Micheal Page was enticed by racist members of the US Army that Blacks got all the advantages in the military (when often times its the only job available to many Black men) and used this to join Skinhead groups outside of the military, where he eventually shot up a temple.

As I said and I am talking to you Leaving USA (and others who claim reserve racism), you can talk all you want about dozens of Blacks attacking a White person but in a country with a savage history of racism and slavery, not to mention oppressing women for a good chunk of the 19th and 20th Century you're not going to gain much sympathy from these groups, so it would do you some good to put down the racism card or you would be better off posting on Storm front.

Haha I love how you have to get all historical to justify the vile shit you bums do.

Let's talk about your black muslim ancestors keeping my ancestors (the Irish) as slaves, castrating the men and keeping the women as sex slaves. Now all of a sudden it ain't so cool to be all historical and shit. You only want to hear the history that serves you.

Funny how I caught all kinds of flack from blacks in that other thread for moving away from them.

First they say there's no reason move away because they don't do anything to hurt us. Busted on that they say I deserve it because a small number of people unrelated to me owned slaves in the south. Even if they were, there's nothing I can do about that. You can't justify punishing me for what someone else did.

You're a racist little pig if there ever was one.

[fschmidt]

There are 2 clearly irreconcilable disagreements, traditionalists versus libertines, and racists versus anti-racists. There is no point trying to form any group across these lines. I am traditionalist and anti-racist.

[Jackal]

And it's not necessary for us to agree on everything either. We don't need to be like some annoying political activist group and state, "This is Happier Abroad's position on these social issues and economic policies", only allowing one view on each issue to be expressed. That would be too limiting and annoying.

I think that here we are more like fans at a sports game who cheer for the same team despite the fact that they have lots of other differences.

[Ghost]

-----

[Jackal]

Feminism will self-destruct but I have no confidence that Mens' Rights, Masculism, Traditionalism, or any other pro-men, anti-feminist movement will move in the absence of feminism.

I agree with that. It doesn't seem like any male leader will arise who can appeal to all factions of the men's rights movement. A few groups will always find something about a person to complain about.

And then there are the racial issues. The man-sphere sometimes attracts small numbers of white nationalists or black power types and other racial dividers. It is hilarious a lot of times when it happens here on HA, or at least it would be if the implications were not so tragic for Men.

Yes, and what is most silly is when people try to blame individuals for the actions of other people of their race or blame them for the actions of their ancestors.

So for these matters I have given up on the man-o-sphere as a way to solve our problems as well. We lost and will continue to lose by our worst examples, not by our best.

For any movement to gain traction, it must be taken up by the elites, and right now, anything to do with men's rights is extremely unfashionable among the elites in the west. For example, I doubt that any good university would have a men's rights conference unless they basically turned it into a gay men's conference. Straight men don't win in the media in most anglo countries these days.

[Teal Lantern]

Why can't men band together and stand up to feminism? Well, here's the simple version: we don't really agree on very much.
It may seem that way at first because we DO have a common foe: feminism.

Which some of us see as just female nature, unrestrained.

So we agree that we shouldn't date, f**k, or marry Western females. We see the evils of feminism and the suffering it brings to men: Child support, divorce, family breakdown, alimony, misandry, etc.

I think there are some guys, here, still willing to dip their wicks if the chance presents.

And then we get into a world of other options and ideas.

Is it best to marry and start a family with a foreign woman, or just bask in sexual freedom?

And that covers so much in just a single question.

Because that is where differences come out roaring and where destiny lies, in either choice.

We have traditionalists: those who want to (or have already) found a good foreign woman to marry and have a family with.

Then we have the libertines: those who want sexual and dating freedom, and don't care for (or explicitly do not want) a family of their own.

So therein lies the difficulty, and I don't see any meaningful bridges between the two.

What seems to pervade even more lately, in the "manosphere" and elsewhere, is a sense of doom. That failure is the only option, both in the scheme of the world and in individual lives.

Feminism will certainly collapse (*sigh* eventually) but men aren't going to be there to fix things. I don't see much to inherit but a pile of ashes.

We didn't hang together as brothers, so now we'll hang apart as fools.

One size does not fit all and SHOULD not. We are not herd animals.
Responding differently keeps us from ALL being manipulated by the same fake peace offering.
The smart ones can see what's coming, now they want to call a truce.
Hint: Who calls for a truce while they're winning?
The Trad-Cons will fall for that -- Just like they allowed themselves to be shamed into going off to die in WWI.

MGTOWs won't fall for it. Past victims of frivorce wont fall for it. PUAs are still having too much fun to go for it.
Expats with their foreign wives are out of the market, too.

Let each man with a plan use his age, experience, temperament, talent, finance, interests, and options to maximize his OWN quality of life.

Let each feminist and white-knight sympathizer get all of the "equality" they can stand and pay for it out of their OWN f'ing pockets.
Give it a bit more time and you're going to see former loudmouth fems pen articles titled "Why I'm No Longer a Feminist".

[Ghost]

-----

[fschmidt]

For any movement to gain traction, it must be taken up by the elites,

False. Traditional religions have traction with no support from the elite. See:

Winning the Demographic War and the Culture War

[abcdavid01]

American politics: The Tea Party

Very anti-elitist. Got a ton of politicians elected.

[Teal Lantern]

Agreed that when feminists en masse call for a truce, it will be because men are winning and that is the last time to agree to a truce.

But overall this brings us back to where we started: the most rational option is to give up on the West, depart, and live a better life abroad.

It is a sorry state, but giving up is the most rational thing. That freedom can then allow a salvaging of one's life elsewhere.

The West worked its way into a shithole, and now it is far too late to change the system or salvage anything from it.

Keep in mind the behavior that you call "feminism" is taking place globally wherever the standard of living is rising. Where women can keep the man's resources without keeping the man, they try to. Where divorce is easy and they can earn enough (or be awarded enough) to support themselves, they are jettisoning their husbands.

[Ghost]

-----

[lavezzi]

women are going to continue to worship the system and become more and more detatched from reality, rendering them into the furthest things possible from actual females or in fact humans. however feminism in any form simply cannot last longer than this decade. the time in which it was conceivable to mistake women as having ever been deliberate victims of a patriarchy beyond their consent is fading into the distant past. their delusion is becoming too transparent to be taken in any way seriously and they only have themselves to blaim for spouting such nonsense as how rape is actually a form of sexism.