Stop saying African Americans have no culture!

[skateboardstephen]

As an African American i know well the Black community has social issues but that in no way is grounds to say we have no culture.I found this cool rebuttal to this argument(which is the link below).To me it is laughable when people(especially) from Latin America say African Americans have no culture and use the fact that were are descendants of Slaves to support that claim.95% of African-Slaves were shipped to the Caribbean and Latin America making them products of slavery and colonization as well while the descendants of African Americans only made up 5% of all slaves during the Trans-Atlantic slave trade.Common things people from the Caribbean and Latin America say are....."African Americans don't have a nationality"....last i checked we were U.S. citizens."African Americans don't have a language"....last i checked it was English."but they don't speak it correctly"..hugh why are all these creoles that exist among the African diaspora more legitimate forms of communication?Guinea-Bissau speaks a Portuguese based creole,Cape Verde speaks a Portuguese based creole,Haitians speak a French based creole and Jamaicans speak "Patois" which is an English based creole.The word Patois is just French for regional dialect so why is it that African American vernacular Aka Ebonics (which could be considered a creole language as well) subjected to such scrutiny and contempt?Puerto Rican and Dominican Spanish is full of slang and colloquialisms as well but why do they seem to think that their forms of communication are superior.In Bahia Brazil where i live there is a local dialect of Portuguese spoken...primarily by Blacks as well.The piece below makes so many good points and was a well put together argument.What do you guys think about this?I'm starting to get tired of hearing this as well as people saying Americans in general don't have a culture.We do have a culture.A lot of aspects of American culture i don't like but that doesn't mean we don't have one.


http://smokingbluntness.tumblr.com/post ... not-have-a
Here’s a message to Afro-Hispanic, Afro-Caribbean and Native African folk.

Stop telling AFRICAN AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT WE DON’T HAVE CULTURE.
THIS IS ANNOYING AS f**k

You sound like separatist idiots
who are willing to do anything to place yourselves on the top of the hierarchy
delegitimizing our culture does not make you any better than us.

Stop feeding into internalized divide-and-conquer strategies.

By telling us that we have no culture

You are attempting to appropriate our identity
and erase our undoubtedly profound contributions to Black history
and contemporary Black society.

We too were displaced from our birthplaces
transported across unfamiliar waters
stripped of our languages
subjected to food portion control
and were given the scraps of the oppressor’s meals
out of those scraps, we created soul food and camaraderie
Out of those meals we created an entire culinary culture
we created memories and customs through our food
we made the best of what was given to us
People visiting from various parts of the world frequent our soul food restaurants for a taste of Afro-gastronomic history.

SO STOP TELLING US THAT WE ARE NOT UNIQUE.



Ebonics and Black colloquialisms
are forms of communication that have survived centuries
just like your Patois and Haitian Creole
northern slang, Geechi talk
Louisiana Creole
these forms of communication contain remnants of our native tongue
just because we don’t speak Patois, Creole, Spanish or Portuguese
does not mean that our form of communication should be subject to ridicule.
Please remember that you speak French, Portuguese and Spanish as a result of colonization
We have all been disadvantaged, suffered the same hardships
Enough is enough.

We have done so much for this society

We built our own communities across America
we built this country with our chained limbs

We created jazz during times of hardship
during times in which our freedom was falsely granted
We created rock-and-roll, rhythm and blues, hip-hop,
The Harlem Renaissance impacted American society
the unrivaled talent of our singers, songwriters and musicians were highly favoured
We launched a civil-rights movement for the advancement of our peoples
(which YOU benefit from when you emigrate here)
African-Americans have intentionally and brilliantly shaped the music industry
we beat-boxed our way through the crack epidemic and eugenics
and break-danced through poverty


our fashion sense is often duplicated by many
Our benefactions towards scientific advancement are worthy of praise
Europeans mimic our style and pay millions to duplicate out physical attributes

How can you say that we haven’t a culture?

James Baldwin?
Maya Angelou?
Nina Simone?
Toni Morrison?
Mae Jemison?
Mary Eliza Mahoney?
Langston Hughes?
Fats Domino?
Hattie McDaniel?
George Washington Carver?
Fannie Lou Hamer?
Dorothy Height?
Miriam Benjamin?
Benjamin Banneker?
Madame CJ Walker?
Ernest Hogan?
Billie Holiday?
Queen Latifah?
Biggie?
Sam Cooke?
Satchmo?
A Tribe Called Quest?
Angela Davis?
Kool Herc?
Malcolm X?
Sugar Hill Gang?
Whitney Houston?
Assata Shakur?
Jimi Hendrix?
Stevie Wonder?
Black Panthers?
GABBY DOUGLASS??


Need I Say More?




Let’s not appropriate the identity of one another by highlighting each other’s differences.

Your growing up in a warm, Caribbean nation that was previously (and currently, Imight add) owned by the Spanish/Dutch/English/French does NOT grant you the right to ridicule us.


Those of you that were born in Africa/first generation descendants of Africans do NOT have an identity advantage over us. YOU do not get to dictate how much culture we have. We have done ASTOUNDING things despite being displaced. You do not like it when Americans poke fun of your customs…so please refrain from belittling ours. You look like a hypocrite.

Black bodies, both diasporic and native
have been dehumanized, displaced, mocked and brutalized
we were taught to hate one another for various reasons
separating ourselves from one another is doing more harm than good

Africa is in all of us.

We need to learn to embrace our cultural differences WITHOUT minimizing the lives of other Africans.

Let’s not allow ignorance to supersede appreciation

The next time you fix your lips to tell us that we have no culture
think of what we have been endured in the last 500 years
look at our inventions
look at our heroes
our writers
our singers
our dancers
our movements…

and hush yo’ damn mouth.
http://raceanddating.com/forum/viewtopi ... 575229ad81

[nicho12]

As an African American i know well the Black community has social issues but that in no way is grounds to say we have no culture.I found this cool rebuttal to this argument(which is the link below).To me it is laughable when people(especially) from Latin America say African Americans have no culture and use the fact that were are descendants of Slaves to support that claim.95% of African-Slaves were shipped to the Caribbean and Latin America making them products of slavery and colonization as well while the descendants of African Americans only made up 5% of all slaves during the Trans-Atlantic slave trade.Common things people from the Caribbean and Latin America say are....."African Americans don't have a nationality"....last i checked we were U.S. citizens."African Americans don't have a language"....last i checked it was English."but they don't speak it correctly"..hugh why are all these creoles that exist among the African diaspora more legitimate forms of communication?Guinea-Bissau speaks a Portuguese based creole,Cape Verde speaks a Portuguese based creole,Haitians speak a French based creole and Jamaicans speak "Patois" which is an English based creole.The word Patois is just French for regional dialect so why is it that African American vernacular Aka Ebonics (which could be considered a creole language as well) subjected to such scrutiny and contempt?Puerto Rican and Dominican Spanish is full of slang and colloquialisms as well but why do they seem to think that their forms of communication are superior.In Bahia Brazil where i live there is a local dialect of Portuguese spoken...primarily by Blacks as well.The piece below makes so many good points and was a well put together argument.What do you guys think about this?I'm starting to get tired of hearing this as well as people saying Americans in general don't have a culture.We do have a culture.A lot of aspects of American culture i don't like but that doesn't mean we don't have one.


http://smokingbluntness.tumblr.com/post ... not-have-a
Here’s a message to Afro-Hispanic, Afro-Caribbean and Native African folk.

Stop telling AFRICAN American PEOPLE THAT WE DON’T HAVE CULTURE.
THIS IS ANNOYING AS f**k

You sound like separatist idiots
who are willing to do anything to place yourselves on the top of the hierarchy
delegitimizing our culture does not make you any better than us.

Stop feeding into internalized divide-and-conquer strategies.

By telling us that we have no culture

You are attempting to appropriate our identity
and erase our undoubtedly profound contributions to Black history
and contemporary Black society.

We too were displaced from our birthplaces
transported across unfamiliar waters
stripped of our languages
subjected to food portion control
and were given the scraps of the oppressor’s meals
out of those scraps, we created soul food and camaraderie
Out of those meals we created an entire culinary culture
we created memories and customs through our food
we made the best of what was given to us
People visiting from various parts of the world frequent our soul food restaurants for a taste of Afro-gastronomic history.

SO STOP TELLING US THAT WE ARE NOT UNIQUE.



Ebonics and Black colloquialisms
are forms of communication that have survived centuries
just like your Patois and Haitian Creole
northern slang, Geechi talk
Louisiana Creole
these forms of communication contain remnants of our native tongue
just because we don’t speak Patois, Creole, Spanish or Portuguese
does not mean that our form of communication should be subject to ridicule.
Please remember that you speak French, Portuguese and Spanish as a result of colonization
We have all been disadvantaged, suffered the same hardships
Enough is enough.

We have done so much for this society

We built our own communities across America
we built this country with our chained limbs

We created jazz during times of hardship
during times in which our freedom was falsely granted
We created rock-and-roll, rhythm and blues, hip-hop,
The Harlem Renaissance impacted American society
the unrivaled talent of our singers, songwriters and musicians were highly favoured
We launched a civil-rights movement for the advancement of our peoples
(which YOU benefit from when you emigrate here)
African-Americans have intentionally and brilliantly shaped the music industry
we beat-boxed our way through the crack epidemic and eugenics
and break-danced through poverty


our fashion sense is often duplicated by many
Our benefactions towards scientific advancement are worthy of praise
Europeans mimic our style and pay millions to duplicate out physical attributes

How can you say that we haven’t a culture?

James Baldwin?
Maya Angelou?
Nina Simone?
Toni Morrison?
Mae Jemison?
Mary Eliza Mahoney?
Langston Hughes?
Fats Domino?
Hattie McDaniel?
George Washington Carver?
Fannie Lou Hamer?
Dorothy Height?
Miriam Benjamin?
Benjamin Banneker?
Madame CJ Walker?
Ernest Hogan?
Billie Holiday?
Queen Latifah?
Biggie?
Sam Cooke?
Satchmo?
A Tribe Called Quest?
Angela Davis?
Kool Herc?
Malcolm X?
Sugar Hill Gang?
Whitney Houston?
Assata Shakur?
Jimi Hendrix?
Stevie Wonder?
Black Panthers?
GABBY DOUGLASS??


Need I Say More?




Let’s not appropriate the identity of one another by highlighting each other’s differences.

Your growing up in a warm, Caribbean nation that was previously (and currently, Imight add) owned by the Spanish/Dutch/English/French does NOT grant you the right to ridicule us.


Those of you that were born in Africa/first generation descendants of Africans do NOT have an identity advantage over us. YOU do not get to dictate how much culture we have. We have done ASTOUNDING things despite being displaced. You do not like it when Americans poke fun of your customs…so please refrain from belittling ours. You look like a hypocrite.

Black bodies, both diasporic and native
have been dehumanized, displaced, mocked and brutalized
we were taught to hate one another for various reasons
separating ourselves from one another is doing more harm than good

Africa is in all of us.

We need to learn to embrace our cultural differences WITHOUT minimizing the lives of other Africans.

Let’s not allow ignorance to supersede appreciation

The next time you fix your lips to tell us that we have no culture
think of what we have been endured in the last 500 years
look at our inventions
look at our heroes
our writers
our singers
our dancers
our movements…

and hush yo’ damn mouth.
http://raceanddating.com/forum/viewtopi ... 575229ad81

Is this what you call a culture

[skateboardstephen]

How about a more substantial response proving that it's not.Every ethic group,race or nationality has a culture..if not then prove me wrong.Stop trying to be a wise guy.

[ChampionKaji]

It is a culture, Maybe not a respected or productive one, but a culture nonetheless.

[skateboardstephen]

It is a culture, Maybe not a respected or productive one, but a culture nonetheless.

I'm in Brazil...What makes Afro-Brazilians more productive???Haiti..How is that country more productive???I'm not saying African Americans don't have issues..everyone of the African diaspora especially in the Americas have issues...so what makes Jamaicans more productive than African Americans when African Americans as a whole have a buying power much larger than a lot of these poor Caribbean islands.There are Black middle class people in the U.S. most of my family are middle class and quite productive..most of them are college educated yet in Brazil a visible Black middle class neighborhood is unheard of yet in the U.S. places like Baldwin Hills in Los Angeles exist.Black Brazilians(Brazilians of color in general) struggle with drugs,crime,murder,out of wedlock births etc...all the things people criticize African Americans for so why is that i hear no one trying to delegitimize Black Brazilians or Haitians as a culture???Why are African Americans the only ones told they don't have a culture???

[Cornfed]

African Americans as a whole have a buying power much larger than a lot of these poor Caribbean islands.There are Black middle class people in the U.S.

Aren't they mainly affirmative action welfare queens though?

[skateboardstephen]

African Americans as a whole have a buying power much larger than a lot of these poor Caribbean islands.There are Black middle class people in the U.S.

Aren't they mainly affirmative action welfare queens though?

There are welfare type programs in Brazil there are other similar programs in Europe.White Americans out number Black Americans as far as people on welfare and that's a fact.African Americans however are probably the demographic most dis-proportionality on it.I don't even know anyone in my family who is on it nor i have ever in my life received welfare,I've worked ever since i legally could.I'm not even in the U.S..but this is not what the thread was about nor i'm a going to go back and forth with you Cornfed. You are entitled to what ever opinions you may have but i asked a question and it wasn't about welfare or affirmative action.The question is... Why is it that African Americans(or Americans in general) are told they have no culture yet other African descendants and every one else on the American continent does??The same is not said about people in Haiti,Dominican Republic,Columbia,Peru,Brazil etc. when they were also products of slavery and colonization and have adopted Europeans languages,religions and customs just like African Americans.Why are Americans in general told they don't have a culture?

[skateboardstephen]

Everyone else.Could you please stay on the topic.I was looking for comments of substance...like maybe defining what culture is,or maybe to maybe discus history.Don't hijack my thread and turn it into some flame war.Please.

[ladislav]

I don't know who is saying that African Americans have no culture. This is total news to me. They have a very powerful culture with a great impact on the world. Who said that to you and where did you hear that?

This statement is something that Brits like to say about all Americans- Americans have no culture, bla bla blah. But it's an opinion and it's wrong.

I will give you my opinion, though. There's is culture but unlike with US Jews who send their kids to Israel or US Greeks who send their kids to Greece to visit, there's definitely not enough effort to re-connect with Africa even though all means are available-- for example most student exchanges, internships, etc in Africa are mostly done by white Americans not black ones.

There are many black studies at colleges but not enough African studies for people to relearn the lost heritage plus most do not seem to be interested. An average black person in the US is not that keen on Africa in terms of language study, music, literature, etc.

Yes, agreed, robbed if their heritage, so much is trule but now all systems are go, people can go and live in Ghana, Nigeria, etc and absorb the life there and rediscover themselves. But this almost never happens. What's worse, many Black Americans look down on Africans and snub them, and African students in the US end up making friends with white people mostly. Seen it so many times.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Yes, agreed, robbed if their heritage, so much is trule but now all systems are go, people can go and live in Ghana, Nigeria, etc and absorb the life there and rediscover themselves. But this almost never happens. What's worse, many Black Americans look down on Africans and snub them, and African students in the US end up making friends with white people mostly. Seen it so many times.

Couple of things. First, most African Americans are an amalgamation of what are now different African ethnicities and nationalities so visiting "Ghana, Nigeria, etc" would be futile to discover the lost cultural legacies. Which tribe in Ghana would be visited since there are scores of them? It would be like you going to Moldova or Armenia to rediscover your lost past. Just because you know the general region of your ancestors does not mean you have roots in all of the region's peoples.

Also, I work in West Africa. There are many reasons to look down on locals apart from those schooled in western ways. I do not respect genital mutilation, stewing albinos in curative potions, and leaving newborn twins to die in the forest since it is believed to be a curse. These are common, everyday practices in Africa and I am only touching on a few. Finally, not all whites take to Africans in America as you suggest. Many find them clannish, overly religious, and culturally obtuse. I don't see legions of Africans (who can be quite educated and skilled in the US) in corporate America nor in other important institutions.

[ChampionKaji]

NLN = Nobody Likes Negroes. It's like this worldwide, whether you're from Ghana, Nigeria, Jamaica, or the USA. That's how it is, that's how it's been, and that's the way it always will be. Until we openly acknowledge this, it'll never change.

[Cornfed]

I'm not even in the U.S..but this is not what the thread was about nor i'm a going to go back and forth with you Cornfed. You are entitled to what ever opinions you may have but i asked a question and it wasn't about welfare or affirmative action.The question is... Why is it that African Americans(or Americans in general) are told they have no culture yet other African descendants and every one else on the American continent does??

You made the point that there is a black American middle class and implied that this reflects positively on black Americans. My point is that if they are in fact doing unnecessary pretend jobs that are really a disguised form of welfare or doing necessary jobs they are not qualified for poorly while depriving talented white men of those jobs, then this in fact reflects negatively on black Americans.

It may be that black Americans are not seen as having an authentic culture because they are seen as an appendage to white American society living in the situation that whitey has put them in, getting by largely on whitey's handouts and whose main allegedly positive contribution to the world has been finding new ways to make a spectacle of themselves for whitey's amusement. Other black Western Hemisphere cultures might be seen as more independent.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

One thing that I have noticed over the years is that underachieving whites deny or play down the success of black Americans since it destroys their egos to see blacks doing better, being better, and having better than themselves.

For example, if a black person is more learned or wealthy than they are, these underachieving whites will claim that their success is due to cheating or illegality or some other unfair factor. It is too painful for them to acknowledge that some blacks are simple better off or simply "better" than they are. Their ego cannot bear this fact.

They ignore the fact that there are far more whites on welfare than blacks. They ignore the fact that these successful blacks have worked, studied and prepared themselves harder and better than they have. Their egos cannot bear this fact.

There are some blacks who are below you. There are some on your level. And there are some so far beyond where you could ever dream of being. Just get over it.

I love threads like this so I can remind underachieving, low-class whites such as Cornfed and the other race trolls of this fact

[zboy1]

Of course African Americans have a culture: a rich history in-fact; from Hip-hop to Jazz music, Black literature from notables such as James Baldwin and Maya Angelou, to Mowtown, to Duke Ellington, to Sammy Davis Jr. African Americans have contributed a lot to American society...

Now, if you're talking about how African Americans have been robbed of their cultural identity--unlike, say, Asian Americans--who still cling strongly to their roots in Asia--than I would agree; many African Americans would have great difficulty identifying with their kin in Africa, for example.

That's not to say Asian Americans don't have cultural issues to deal with: they do! In fact, many Asian Americans have many self-identity issues to deal with--especially with so many not being able to speak their parent's tongue, or not knowing anything about their culture back home. Too many Asians are 'White-washed' and unable to perceive themselves as an 'Asian' person in a White-dominated society like the United States.

[Rock]

They ignore the fact that there are far more whites on welfare than blacks. They ignore the fact that these successful blacks have worked, studied and prepared themselves harder and better than they have. Their egos cannot bear this fact.

There are some blacks who are below you. There are some on your level. And there are some so far beyond where you could ever dream of being. Just get over it.

When you talk about these things, absolute numbers are meaningless unless each group happens to be equal in number. Stick to percentages to avoid it being apples vs. oranges. What percent of African American's receive some sort of welfare, what percentage of Asian Asian Americans, what percent of Jewish Americans, what percent of white Americans, and what percent of Hispanic Americans?

Of course some blacks will be above most whites. I doubt many here will make it to office of President of United States. But then again, isn't Obama also half white lol?

Anyway, for generalizations and group to group comparisons, why not stick with stats (means, bell curves, and standard deviations)? Even though most Filipinos are pretty short, there are some who are taller than me too, the ones which are like 3 or 4 SD above the mean male height here which means they make up a very small percentage of the total population in Phils. An average guy can whip and average girls ass in a fight. But I can find a few girls who can probably beat-up majority of guys too.

Why is it so taboo to have these discussions? I mean, it is possible to base them just on facts and avoid extending into the subjective realm. At least in medicine it's acceptable to discuss differences between broad race and ethnic categories for the sake of disease prevention.