Very interesting characteristics of US civilization

[darwinsturtle]

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[Master]

You just came to post this?

[ladislav]

I can see some points here but it comes from Israel Shamir, a Jew who converted to Christianity and is now working for a Ukrainian ultra-right organization. I am all for a more impartial view of the US.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Clearly a man who is unaware of the diversity of thought in the US. Some of this has kernels of truth, but most is collectivist drivel borne of unrestrained nationalism.

[Nate]

Clearly a man who is unaware of the diversity of thought in the US. Some of this has kernels of truth, but most is collectivist drivel borne of unrestrained nationalism.

You are so polite...I would say a few bits of truth wrapped in a blanket of bullshit spewed by a sniveling mental degenerate. Such individuals
are simply looking to stir conflict and will inevitably prove themselves incapable of conversation. Sounds like Russian nationalist masturbation. Just have to ignore...

[momopi]

2. Its main occupation is usury. They provide loans to states, ensnare them with impossible conditions and ruin them.

Actually, America borrows from others, then de-value our dollar so we won't have to pay back as much.

[globetrotter]

2. Its main occupation is usury. They provide loans to states, ensnare them with impossible conditions and ruin them.

Actually, America borrows from others, then de-value our dollar so we won't have to pay back as much.

It is the IMF and WB that call the shots. If the USA goes belly up and cannot pay its debt the IMF will be dictating our fiscal policy.

[ladislav]

1. It is exterritorial, knows no borders and able to attack and devour from Iraq to China, from Russia to Nicaragua. It has no natural habitat and able of endless expansion. Wherever there is a man to enslave, a house to bomb, a tree to fell, it is ready to come.

Only if its interests are threatened and only if it is a weak country. Also, US companies pay pretty good salaries compared to local slavers. Attack China, Russia? Yeah right!

2. Its main occupation is usury. They provide loans to states, ensnare them with impossible conditions and ruin them.

Utter BS. Its main occupation is movies, food and software. As far as usury, it is the Saudis and Japanese that loan out.

3. It considers human solidarity and brotherhood – ‘totalitarianism’.

No it considers it sort of annoying as it values people taking care of themselves rather than joining brotherhoods.

It rejects Spirit and considers it ‘fanaticism and fundamentalism’.

The man has never been to the Southern Bible Belt

5. It equally abhors Apostolic Christianity and Islam; but it loves to set the Christians upon the Muslims, and vice versa.

I do not think it is a religious problem, but rather whoever opposed the US interests and is weak gets pounded. The US government allows Muslims and Chrsitians worship freely. Try being a Christian in Saudi Arabia, though.

6. Its devotion is given to the Jewish State. Not only the JINSA Cabal is ethnically faithful to Israel; the US National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice said that the security of Israel is the key to security of the world. Rice added that she feels a deep affinity with Israel.

Israel is the closest US ally in the ME. So? It will protect it. It will also protect Kuwait.

It is heavily engaged in drugs. Wherever they win, heroin has its field day. London's The Independent newspaper, reported from Baghdad: The city, which had never seen heroin, is now flooded with narcotics. It is not unusual that where the Americans go, the narcotics flourish. The Taliban had successfully eliminated the drugs from Afghanistan but since the US forces took over control, Afghanistan has become the largest producer of heroin. Some reports suggest that the drug and arms trafficking is patronized by the CIA to finance its covert operations worldwide.

In the meantime it is spending billions in the War on Drugs.

8. It exalts vengeance. The war against Afghanistan was promoted as ‘vengeance for 9/11’.

Yeah, I guess. And how about your country Shamir? If it were attacked by a terrorist organization, it would not fight back?

It has a soul of a dastardly knave, in its narrow meaning of ‘opposite of noble’. They did not dare to attack Iraq until it was fully disarmed by the UN. (Also, after twelve years of the most comprehensive sanctions in probably all of history.)

Well, I must agree that the US prefers to attack weaker guys and cowtows to bigger and stronger ones.

It produces no art. In vain archaeologists of Fourth Millennium will search for their Venus. The rusty American Venus a.k.a opus 5327 exhibited in the Guggenheim is identical to any heap of scrap metal. There are no glorious temples, no exciting architecture, absolutely nothing to miss if the gods would pour sulfur and brimstone on its cities.

Really? What about Normal Rockwell and the whole art districts in so many cities. I have exhibited in art galleries. My parents did a living off of art in the US.

It is obsessed with paranoid fear. It is not enough that America spends on weapons ten times more money than the rest of the world. They want to disarm everybody. The war in Iraq was caused by the desire to remove its weapons. Now they want to disarm Iran, Syria, Korea, and Ukraine and Russia just wait for its turn.

It is scared of Muslim countries having WMD. I am too.

Fear of weapons is not aimed exclusively outside: the proponents of US civilization try their best to disarm the American people as well. For this reason they committed the mass murder at Waco and implicated militias in the Oklahoma bombing.

Some 39% of Americans own guns. It is the most weapon friendly country in the world.

It despises labor and laborers. American cinema, the only existing quasi-art output of US civilization, depicts millionaires and whores, gamblers and brokers, bums and gangsters, but its last worker was depicted in the pre-war Grapes of Wrath.

Mostly cop movies really. Action and horror.

14. It loves the rich. They believe the rich are virtuous, for they are blessed with wealth, while the poor are evil and damned just because they are poor.

Well, yeah, like most countries. Not much more than many countries I have been to. Now, which country likes the poor? At least the US allows millions of people who are poor to come and settle and start a new life. How about your country, Shamor?

One nation that manages to lower intelligence, morality, human quality (originally: manhood) on nearly all the surface of the earth, such a thing has never been seen before in the existence of the planet. I accuse the United States of being in a permanent state of crime against humankind. [/quote]


Russia did that. The countries they invaded usually became poor. Same with Portugal. America does improve economic quality of life quite often

[globetrotter]

"I think you guys don't like him because he's a Jew telling the truth about the Zionist Jews in the USA. "

Total and utter bullshit.

I have spent the last 12 years online and I have posted tens of thousands of posts and hosted several forums.

Every.single.point. Every.single.point. Anti-zionists make is hampered by the precise logical handicap that Feminists have; namely you repeatedly, in nearly every single sentence, invoke the Fallacy of Composition.

i.e. Because many people in power are men, therefore men rule the world.
i.e. Because many people in power are Joooos, therefore Joooos rule the world.

All that proof you will post after this one? I have read it. All of it. The Anti-Jooo websites and forums? Read 'em. Mistake after error. It's tragic. You are paranoid and suspicious enough to question but not educated nor smart enough to realize your fatal flaw. Just like Feminists. I react to it precisely as I do to Feminist Tracts - every other word trips my intellectual bullshit meter as I find mistake after flaw after logical fallacy, over and over and over.

I no longer debate or argue with Feminists or Anti-Zionists. So I will not waste another yocto-second of my life discussing this drivel with you.

You are both wrong and share this: you are both educated and suspicious enough to make a bad argument but you are both too uneducated in the last detail and too stupid to realise that you are simply put:


Wrong.

[Winston]

2. Its main occupation is usury. They provide loans to states, ensnare them with impossible conditions and ruin them.

Utter BS. Its main occupation is movies, food and software. As far as usury, it is the Saudis and Japanese that loan out.

Ladislav, if you checked those sources I told you about, you'd know that the US does loan out money to poor countries, then creates conditions to screw them over preventing them from paying back, so as collateral they take all the country's resources. They've been doing this for decades. You just don't hear about it on CNN of course. You hear about it from Noam Chomsky or John Perkins, who is an insider and was an economic hit man for the US government.

When will you wake up and learn something besides listening only to what the sheeple hear on CNN, which only tells you what the elite want you to know?

I gave you many links and sources to follow up on before, but you never did cause you're not interested. When will you choose to stop living in ignorance and making excuses like "I don't have time or interest" yet you still have a propagandist view of the world? And you're parroting propaganda from CNN.

It rejects Spirit and considers it ‘fanaticism and fundamentalism’.

The man has never been to the Southern Bible Belt

Those Bible Belt people are not spiritual. They may have spiritual components, but they are fanatics.

It is heavily engaged in drugs. Wherever they win, heroin has its field day. London's The Independent newspaper, reported from Baghdad: The city, which had never seen heroin, is now flooded with narcotics. It is not unusual that where the Americans go, the narcotics flourish. The Taliban had successfully eliminated the drugs from Afghanistan but since the US forces took over control, Afghanistan has become the largest producer of heroin. Some reports suggest that the drug and arms trafficking is patronized by the CIA to finance its covert operations worldwide.

In the meantime it is spending billions in the War on Drugs.

Again if you did any research you'd find out that the CIA has been involved in drug trafficking for years. The British have too. Remember the Opium Wars of the 19th Century? The Anglo powers make a lot of money from drugs. The war on drugs is just a phoney show. Even Senator John Kerrey admitted it and said it was a certainty.

You don't know how the elite work and don't care do you? You just continue to parrot propaganda that you hear. Why do you have no critical thinking skills in these matters? Get educated please. I've given you links before. First, look up "Problem, Reaction, Solution", that will teach you the basic strategy of the elite.

Why is it that you and Momopi are smart in many areas and insightful, but when it comes to examining evidence, you close up and cannot do so objectively?

The US has the power to end the war on drugs right now if it wanted to. Believe me. It doesn't cause it has a vested interest in keeping it going. This has been known for decades now. Even Momopi knows it and admitted it.

Don't you want to shed off all the lies that you believe in?

8. It exalts vengeance. The war against Afghanistan was promoted as ‘vengeance for 9/11’.

Yeah, I guess. And how about your country Shamir? If it were attacked by a terrorist organization, it would not fight back?

Afghanistan is not about fighting terror. It was about controlling the opium fields there and letting Unocal build a pipeline through it. Neither is Iraq. Again, if you studied the videos I gave you, you'd already know this, instead of parroting what the American hicks and propagandists on CNN tell you.

Al Qaeda was created and funded by the CIA. Anyone in intelligence knows this. The whole war on terror is manufactured, the same group funded both sides. They did that in the Vietnam War too, which was proven long ago. Why don't you ever learn from history?

Ladislav, please look up "False Flag Operation" on YouTube to get a brief rundown.

Even Momopi knows that the sinking of the Maine before the Spanish American War was staged.

t produces no art. In vain archaeologists of Fourth Millennium will search for their Venus. The rusty American Venus a.k.a opus 5327 exhibited in the Guggenheim is identical to any heap of scrap metal. There are no glorious temples, no exciting architecture, absolutely nothing to miss if the gods would pour sulfur and brimstone on its cities.

Really? What about Normal Rockwell and the whole art districts in so many cities. I have exhibited in art galleries. My parents did a living off of art in the US.

A few museums in a few big cities doesn't cut it and doesn't represent the mainstream. Can you find glorious art museums like the kind in Italy in the US suburbs? Hell no.

It is obsessed with paranoid fear. It is not enough that America spends on weapons ten times more money than the rest of the world. They want to disarm everybody. The war in Iraq was caused by the desire to remove its weapons. Now they want to disarm Iran, Syria, Korea, and Ukraine and Russia just wait for its turn.

It is scared of Muslim countries having WMD. I am too.

Then you are gullible and believe every lying shit that you hear and live in fear, exactly what the elite want. You have fallen into the same trap as the sheeple. If you did a little research, you'd get out of that and stop living in fear. But something in you continues to want to live in fear and ignorance. How can you call yourself a freethinker or intellectual when you remain in ignorance with the masses and REFUSE to do ANY research at all?!?!?!?!?

Start with Zeitgeist the Movie, Parts 2 and 3.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7743189197

WATCH IT FOR CHRIST SAKE! GIVE TRUTH A CHANCE FOR GOD'S SAKE!

If you don't have time, just make a little time, 15 minutes a day! Can you put a price on truth?!

You didn't even know the Federal Reserve was private and above the law, did you?

[momopi]

In the post WW2 era, US and Russia was engaged in a competition over global influence. To secure American influence over Western Europe, the US government sent $25 billion in economic aid. The Marshall plan was also offered to the Russians, and they declined for obvious reasons. The Russians instead formed their own Comecon economic bloc in Eastern Europe and forced its members to decline US aid.

To put things in context, the American mainland was never invaded in WW2 and its post-war economy was valued at $258 billion USD. Europe, including Russia, was bombed to kingdom come. Obviously America was in the superior position to dictate terms of the foreign aid, which was non-negotiable. The Russians was fighting the Americans for influence and thought if they had accepted US aid, they'd lose Eastern Europe. Institutions like the World Bank and IMF are Cold War babies, created in the last stages of WW2 to assist allied nations with economic recovery, and hopefully keeping them within Western sphere of influence.

Those of us old enough to remember the Cold War, should understand the mentality of the times. NATO and Warsaw Pact had 60,000-70,000 nuclear warheads pointed at each other, and where economic policy couldn't guarentee influence, the military was sent in -- see: Hungary in 1956, Vietnam in 1959-1975, Czechoslovakia in 1968, Afghanistan in 1979-1989, etc.

American foreign aid policy from the Cold War era was not intended to impoversih countries. The main goal is to simply prevent them from "turning red". If this means propping up petty dictators like Ferdinand Marcos, Batista, Somoza, Alfredo Stroessner Matiauda, Pinochet, Franco, etc., so be it. This of course caused a lot of problems later, but it's the product of survival mode thinking. You can still observe this today with the foreign policy struggle between Taiwan and China, where both sides bribe shrimp countries with foreign aid for diplomatic recognition. Then there's all the youtube kiddies screaming "OMG OMG can you believe the US did this" 20 years later. The ignorance of youth can be excused, but the older participants are just idiots.

So why are some countries impoverished and others prospered? The US had great success with Western Europe, Japan, and the Four Asian Tigers (Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, HK), but failed with countries like Indonesia and Philippines. At the end of WW2, the Philippines had better economy than Japan. Today that's unthinkable and the US is STILL sending foreign aid to the Philippines -- Obama is sending over $600 million dollars. WTF?

The short and simple answer is, the same shoe does't fit everyone.

The terms of the economic aid from US and Western countries is no different from what made them economically successful. Deregulation, trade liberialization, privatization, and so on. China has been adopting the same policies with success. Opponents claim tha these policies are designed to turn recipient countries into a source of cheap labor, but they don't look at it as a step (developing low-cost manufacturing export industry) that countries like Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, and HK all took before reaching their current status.

The problem, is that not everyone can fit the same shoe and walk the same path. Some countries, people, culture, race, however you want to define it, is simply incapable of taking the same economic developmental path. We tried it in Paraguay and Jamica and FAILED. It simply DOES NOT WORK. IMF policies that are intended to help them might work elsewhere but will not achieve the same level of success in those countries. The Russians discovered the same problem with Comecon subsidies to Cuba.

Gullible sheeples who think there's some elaborate government plot need to have their heads examined. A failed attempt at imposing western economic policy is not a conspiracy, it's bad policy. They'd have been better off importing a few million ethnic Chinese immigrants & use them as economic boot-straps like the Malaysians did.

[momopi]

It rejects Spirit and considers it ‘fanaticism and fundamentalism’.

The man has never been to the Southern Bible Belt

Those Bible Belt people are not spiritual. They may have spiritual components, but they are fanatics.

What is your defination of "spiritual", and does it differ from the dictionary? I'm referring specifically to Webster's Collegiate (US standard) and Oxford's (UK stanadard):

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spiritual
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/spiritual?view=uk

[

It is scared of Muslim countries having WMD. I am too.

Then you are gullible and believe every lying shit that you hear and live in fear, exactly what the elite want. You have fallen into the same trap as the sheeple. If you did a little research, you'd get out of that and stop living in fear. But something in you continues to want to live in fear and ignorance. How can you call yourself a freethinker or intellectual when you remain in ignorance with the masses and REFUSE to do ANY research at all?!?!?!?!?

Muslim-majority countries already own WMD's, including Nuclear Weapons (Pakistan). However, terriorist (or revoluationary, depending on your point of view) groups do not have access to them unless if they're sponsered by a state and is given such weapons. That's not in the best interest of the sponsoring state because, unlike underground groups, governments are fixed targets, and if found responsible, we might go into "America f*ck yeah" mode and pull one of these in retaliation:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1224337/posts

For those interested in reading the whole book, you can download it for free here:
http://www.dragonsfuryseries.com/


But WMD's are not the main problem in dealing with the Arab/Muslim world. The US has more WMD's than anyone and can pretty much flatten any opponent. The problem is in our own inferiority complex from the OPEC embargo incident and how we choose to look the other way at whatever the Saudis are doing. The Saudis was able to shift (at least in words) Japanese and many Western country's foreign policy in the Arab-Israeli dispute, by simply threatening to classify them as a nonfriendly state and cut off the flow of oil. After showing the world "who's your daddy", the Saudis proceeded to spend some $75-$100 billion dollars in spreading wahabbism throughout the world.

These guys funded thousands of madrasas and built over 1,500 mosques, sending Wahabbi preachers around the globe to spread their sect. We funded them from our gas pumps, and the US government looked the other way for almost 3 decades. Nobody bothered to look at exactly what they were putting into children's textbooks and Islamic learning centers abroad. It wasn't until very recently that we started scrutinizing school textbooks that advocates killing and enslaving nonbelievers.

Ultimately, the solution is moving away from oil-luberciated economy and stop funding people who thinks we're infidels. It's going to be difficult and expensive, but it has to be done.

[Winston]

Gullible sheeples who think there's some elaborate government plot need to have their heads examined. A failed attempt at imposing western economic policy is not a conspiracy, it's bad policy. They'd have been better off importing a few million ethnic Chinese immigrants & use them as economic boot-straps like the Malaysians did.

How can people who think for themselves and do the research be the sheeples, while those who blindly get all their info from CNN are not sheeples? Can you explain that logic?

You are only told what you are meant to hear, and if that's all you know, then you are technically a sheeple.

Google up "The committee of 300".

Question for you: If there is no elaborate plot, then why does the Bilderberg Group meet every year in total secrecy? And why does the mainstream media not say a word about it, when 125 of the world's powerful elite are there, including US Presidents? Logically that means that those behind Bilderberg have control over the media and can order them not to cover it.

What do you think goes on there? Nothing?

Do you still think that the media is independent and not controlled?

Why doesn't the mainstream media mention all the documented close business ties between the Bush family an the Bin Laden family? You'd think an independent media like CNN, ABC, NBC or CBS would cover that right? Or what about the fact that Al Qaeda was funded and created by the CIA, which is known in intelligence circles? How come the media doesn't cover that?

You do know about the PNAC document by Bush and his think tank right, where it said that in order for America to take over the world, they needed a New Pearl Harbor?

So why do you call people who do the homework the sheeple and the nuts, and not the people who only know the propaganda from the mainstream media? Isn't that a copout defense mechanism where one denies the obvious by calling the other what they themselves should rightfully be called?

[Winston]

Momopi, does this explain what motivates your views?

Most people are conformists and followers, not independent free thinkers. They were conditioned to believe that "authority = truth" and is therefore never to be questioned. In school, they were raised in a behavioral conditioning environment where following and doing what one was told led to reward and merit, while defiance and non-compliance led to punishment and ridicule. (Such a system's purpose is to condition the population to become efficient slaves and producers) In this system, they found purpose and meaning in aligning their interests with that of established interests. Hence anything that challenges orthodoxy makes them uncomfortable. They've developed a psychological block against it. That's what makes them tick.

In school, you are taught that "critical thinking" means to refute and ridicule anything that opposes the establishment or status quo, but never the status quo itself. A true skeptic can rise above that and apply skepticism and critical thought toward established orthodoxy, but a pseudo-skeptic cannot. Instead, the pseudo-skeptic follows the school system's form of "critical thinking", applying it only to those who oppose orthodoxy in defense of the status quo.

In that sense, they are in reality "establishment defenders" rather than true skeptics. That is why they NEVER challenge, criticize or scrutinize their government or any part of the establishment, including the pharmaceutical companies, CIA or FBI, even if logic, facts, evidence or moral cause dictates that they should.

To these establishment defenders, authority = truth, and as such is always blameless in their eyes. That is their religion, so hence, all their skills, talents and knowledge is used to serve their true God - orthodoxy establishment. In their view, establishment authority can do no wrong, even if they murder, traffick drugs, steal, lie, stage terrorist attacks, start wars by funding both sides, etc.

What this means is that these pseudo-skeptics or establishment defenders, which are commonly featured in the mainstream media, do not serve truth as their master. As such, they cannot see the truth or do what's right, but in fact, are even willing to lie and deceive to serve their establishment masters (there are so many documented cases of this). Thus they are not "free" in any sense of the word, nor honest, which is sad.

This is why not only are they closed minded against anything to do with paranormal phenomena, but are vehemently opposed to all claims of government conspiracies as well, no matter how well supported, for it offends their "true master" (which is not truth).

[momopi]

Question for you: If there is no elaborate plot, then why does the Bilderberg Group meet every year in total secrecy? And why does the mainstream media not say a word about it, when 125 of the world's powerful elite are there, including US Presidents? Logically that means that those behind Bilderberg have control over the media and can order them not to cover it.
<snip>
Why doesn't the mainstream media mention all the documented close business ties between the Bush family an the Bin Laden family? You'd think an independent media like CNN, ABC, NBC or CBS would cover that right? Or what about the fact that Al Qaeda was funded and created by the CIA, which is known in intelligence circles? How come the media doesn't cover that?

1. The Bilderberg group is an old boys club that's under no legal obligation to make its closed-door meetings public. By closed door, I mean its location and attendees are released in press announcements, but the public is not invited to attend. That does not qualify as a meeting held in "total secrecy". See copy of press release here:

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/b ... lease.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16217674/Bild ... ss-Release

Does Yahoo News qualify as mainstream media?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200903 ... tico/20010

2. The Bush-Bin Laden family business connection was a hot topic in his home State of Texas, long before Johnny come lately's like Michael Moore and all the other pretenders tried to make it sound as if they're releasing "news". See this article from the Texas Observer magazine in 2001:
http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=480

NBC's "Dateline" also interviewed Osama bin Laden's half brother Yeslam, discussing the family's business ties. It was aired on TV during prime time. But this is pointless today (a dead cat) after Bush had already invaded 2 countries and left office.

3. When you drop a dead cat, it will bounce only once, and that's it. To give an example, after Rumsfeld resigned in 2006, the PNAC was dropped as a dead cat. All the stupid anti-government critics who are still chasing after PNAC's shadow are trying to resuscitate a dead cat, while the political leadership have already moved on.

No matter how hard you try, a dead cat is not coming back to life. The best you can do is a postmoretem. If you choose to continue performing mouth to mouth on a dead feline, feel free to do so while the rest of us wander off. Don't be a tool for those who are trying to convince you that the cat is still alive.