Pros and Cons of Living and Dating in the Philippines

[Winston]

Hi Winston,

What is the peso $ exchange rate?

Your comments about middle class women lack PUA language but are easily explained by them. No foreign woman is likely to date an American making less income than many of the local men she has access to. Whether or not an American can "get by" on $500 per month is less relevant to how much per month do upper middle class men make on average within 100 miles. If I made less than $1000 per month in Eastern Europe, I could survive OK but I wouldn't get very far with most of the best looking women.

Luckily, American companies are outsourcing functions like crazy. Here are some ideas:

1) Sales - You can ask a company if you can take over sales for the Pacific Rim, claiming you are in the right time zone and their salespeople would have to work in the evening to properly make calls and handle customer support. Demand $2000 per month and commission and they have to pay when you fly to Tokyo or Singapore to meet a distributor or take the bus to Manila to meet a distributor.

2) Marketing - You take over the website and Twitter and Facebook account of an American company. Nobody does physical mailings anymore so it no longer matters if a marketing person is at the home office in Detroit or not.

3) Customer Support - This is great not only for dealing with a company's Asian customers, but, during your day hours, you can easily work the "evening shift" of American companies answering calls from American customers currently in the USA during evening hours their time.

What time is it in the USA when it is 8AM to 6PM your time?

These are just a few ideas. Many PH companies, especially in Manila, would want someone who speaks fluent English to help them market their products back to Americans.

Forget the foreign bride business or teaching English because it is too easy, like driving a taxi, and that always leads to the lowest possible income because of the housewives who are willing and able to compete with you for peanuts.

If this helps you triple your income, you owe me a free night's stay in your new apartment by the beach.

The peso exchange rate is now 44.60 pesos per dollar.

Well the average Filipino makes between 100 to 300 dollars per month, half of which goes to transporation costs and food while on the job. So their take hom pay is almost nil. I still have no idea how anyone survives here or is able to pay for anything, or how the malls and restaurants stay in business here. It does not mathematically add up.

But the thing is, even if I were broke, I could still get dates here in the PH. There is such a huge surplus of single girls. Telling them that I am poor does not turn most of them off, not if they like you. It only deters those with bad intentions who don't like you that much.

Conversely, having a lot of money doesn't create attraction. If a girl doesn't enjoy being around you and doesn't like your personality, she'll dump you, even for a les richer guy.

A lot of guys think that only power and money matter. But these types do not do well with women unless they are gold diggers and materialistic shallow types. These type of guys lack the ability to connect with women on an emotional level or inner level. They only see power and money themselves, so they assume everyone else does too. It's a fallacy.

Some guys also inflate every single number about cost and income. I don't know why. But guys do this. They add two or three zeros to every price and cost in their life to exaggerate everything. I don't know why. But a lot of guys do that for some odd reason. That's what I've noticed.

You forget that most of us are not looking for the best looking women. We just want a decent woman with a decent personality, like a 7 or so.

I've had bad girls reject me for being poor, but never a good one or nice one.

Your suggestions are good ones, but too broad. There are millions of companies. I can't just call all of them up and offer services. If they needed expats here to work for them, they would have advertised in the expat papers here long ago. I need more specific info such as the names of companies and their websites that are hiring here.

Most jobs aren't advertised anyway. They are recruited from within or offered through networking with contacts. You simply have to network and ask for opportunities until one comes up.

[Nate]

Hi Winston,

What is the peso $ exchange rate?

Your comments about middle class women lack PUA language but are easily explained by them. No foreign woman is likely to date an American making less income than many of the local men she has access to. Whether or not an American can "get by" on $500 per month is less relevant to how much per month do upper middle class men make on average within 100 miles. If I made less than $1000 per month in Eastern Europe, I could survive OK but I wouldn't get very far with most of the best looking women.

Luckily, American companies are outsourcing functions like crazy. Here are some ideas:

1) Sales - You can ask a company if you can take over sales for the Pacific Rim, claiming you are in the right time zone and their salespeople would have to work in the evening to properly make calls and handle customer support. Demand $2000 per month and commission and they have to pay when you fly to Tokyo or Singapore to meet a distributor or take the bus to Manila to meet a distributor.

2) Marketing - You take over the website and Twitter and Facebook account of an American company. Nobody does physical mailings anymore so it no longer matters if a marketing person is at the home office in Detroit or not.

3) Customer Support - This is great not only for dealing with a company's Asian customers, but, during your day hours, you can easily work the "evening shift" of American companies answering calls from American customers currently in the USA during evening hours their time.

What time is it in the USA when it is 8AM to 6PM your time?

These are just a few ideas. Many PH companies, especially in Manila, would want someone who speaks fluent English to help them market their products back to Americans.

Forget the foreign bride business or teaching English because it is too easy, like driving a taxi, and that always leads to the lowest possible income because of the housewives who are willing and able to compete with you for peanuts.

If this helps you triple your income, you owe me a free night's stay in your new apartment by the beach.

The peso exchange rate is now 44.60 pesos per dollar.

Well the average Filipino makes between 100 to 300 dollars per month, half of which goes to transporation costs and food while on the job. So their take hom pay is almost nil. I still have no idea how anyone survives here or is able to pay for anything, or how the malls and restaurants stay in business here. It does not mathematically add up.

But the thing is, even if I were broke, I could still get dates here in the PH. There is such a huge surplus of single girls. Telling them that I am poor does not turn most of them off, not if they like you. It only deters those with bad intentions who don't like you that much.

Conversely, having a lot of money doesn't create attraction. If a girl doesn't enjoy being around you and doesn't like your personality, she'll dump you, even for a les richer guy.

A lot of guys think that only power and money matter. But these types do not do well with women unless they are gold diggers and materialistic shallow types. These type of guys lack the ability to connect with women on an emotional level or inner level. They only see power and money themselves, so they assume everyone else does too. It's a fallacy.

Some guys also inflate every single number about cost and income. I don't know why. But guys do this. They add two or three zeros to every price and cost in their life to exaggerate everything. I don't know why. But a lot of guys do that for some odd reason. That's what I've noticed.

You forget that most of us are not looking for the best looking women. We just want a decent woman with a decent personality, like a 7 or so.

I've had bad girls reject me for being poor, but never a good one or nice one.

Your suggestions are good ones, but too broad. There are millions of companies. I can't just call all of them up and offer services. If they needed expats here to work for them, they would have advertised in the expat papers here long ago. I need more specific info such as the names of companies and their websites that are hiring here.

Most jobs aren't advertised anyway. They are recruited from within or offered through networking with contacts. You simply have to network and ask for opportunities until one comes up.

You have some points Winston, but some of them are a stretch. To say that having money does not create attraction is not quite so. It may not create attraction in some real direct ways, but it certainly creates assumptions upon which many of us operate- not just filipinas. You also seem to imply that a filipina caring about a mans income and status is automatically a bad thing.

I have one filipina right near me on Bohol who is well educated, pretty, good personallity, and focused in life. She wants to be a wife and mother. And yes, she is hoping for a good life...not one of constant struggle. Something starting around the modest end of middle class in the USA would be really fine with her. That of course is pretty rich by Filipino standards. Is she shallow and materialistic? I don't think so. She is thoughtful and realistic. She is willing to give all to a good man whose primary focus is to have and take care of his family. Her father always worked hard and by Filipino standards, did well. She wants a man who is willing to measure up to that standard, rather than spends his time goofing off, drinking, gambling, womanizing, or spending his time contemplating the meaning of life while his family does without. I am somewhat of an uncle to her, and I do not encourage her to lower her standards. There were a couple of expats that showed interest in her, but I warned her off from them. They were nothing but players, Philippines expat style.

She is now chatting with a man from Seattle who says he is a financial planner. She has not idea what his income might be and has not asked. She does note that he dresses well and seems very well mannered. From what she has told me, he seems like a good guy. If they become more serious, I will check him out. Not to see what his income is, but to see if he is who and what he says he is, however modest that might be. It is about accountability. This does not make her a gold digger. I am straying off topic here, but a man will have to court her, not "date her" and if he thinks he can have her without financial responsibility, he will be mistaken. A man who would marry her and keep his status as a player, like a lot of expats do here, will be in for a rude awakening. He may get one warning to clean up his act, and beyond that, it would not end well for him. Most expats and visitors will not court a girl like her, as they are not willing to look at the big picture and they will not get her- and she is a catch. Frankly, most expats are assholes, and would rather have a floozy bar girl than a girl like this(UMC), no matter how much of a catch she is...they want to be able to bail out if they want, and the thought of being held accountable by men with hard cold steel makes the little he-bitches piddle their pants.


Moscow Summer Nights has some points with his outsourcing pointers. Small scale outsourcing is now technically possible in ways that were not practical even a few years ago. You have to go looking for customers- they will not come to you, but it is possible. These prospects will not be advertising in expat forums or publications, and in fact, they average expat in the Philippines would not be able to do what they need. I know of an American in Mindanao editing a publication based in Florida. He had to go looking, they did not come to him. They were skeptical at first, but now they are quite happy with the results.
Many programmers and consultants can work anywhere in the world where decent computer connections are possible.

I have a fil-am daughter with my ex. I have taught her a lot about what is important, and she is not at all spoiled, but as she becomes a teen, she will learn that there are standards as to who is welcome to court her Being rich is not a prerequisite, but being honest and dedicated certainly is...a man who would be dedicated to prospering his own family, no matter how modest his beginnings.

There are no mathematical solutions to all of this. It's like the act of creation...the process can be messy. For the right man at the right time, almost anything is possible. As Ladislav says, every dog has his country...


Nate

[globetrotter]

Nate,

I have f***ed solid 3 figures, had over 6 girlfriends. After a while the pointless pursuit of another 10 just gets to be a boring chore.

[Nate]

Nate,

I have f***ed solid 3 figures, had over 6 girlfriends. After a while the pointless pursuit of another 10 just gets to be a boring chore.

Well put. Another notch in the bedpost for what? As you well know, the bigger picture becomes more important, especially for those of us who are overseas, and know full well that we can likely have what we want with women with a bit of effort, so we have learned to be be careful what we wish for.

A reasonably attractive girl with a heart of gold, one who understands the meaning and costs of devotion, is worth a bus-load of "10"s. A "praise the Lord and pass the ammunition" girl who is always there for you, who would fight to the death at your side...is rare anywhere, and a "keeper" as they call it. When it has been tested, and you know that "With her last breath she would whisper my name.", the interesting theories and conjectures stop and reality begins.So far my current GF has not let me down, and really seems headed in the right direction. Her mother told me that initially she did not favor our relationship and freely expressed that to her daughter, but after a while she saw such constancy in her daughter, and some positive changes as well, that she gave her daughter her blessing. From the time I visited her parents in a quite unsafe location actually (Read Islamic Jihad area) her father became an ally as well. He is a very hard working farmer and a good one, but the area is suffering with drought at this time. He has never asked me for anything, but after talking about their farming situation with my GF I did buy them fertilizer they needed, as they are facing their second short harvest in a row. Now this year, having a lot of farmer in my own blood, I am looking to get a few more things for them such as pumping equipment to handle drought periods.

My GF is quite lovely in fact, at least towards the upper end of that "number scale", but so what? She is also part of a real family that loves her, and I can never separate her from that fact, and I do not regret showing some respect for that. I do not look to take extended contemporary American psychobabble and impose it on another part of the world. I would rather stick with my third world realities and my farmer's daughter who would rather work on flowers around the yard in an old t-shirt than go to the mall. I live with it and it works for me...your mileage may vary...


Nate

[Adama]

Hey guys, things get hard to read when you dont separate them into paragraphs.

[The_Adventurer]

But the thing is, even if I were broke, I could still get dates here in the PH. There is such a huge surplus of single girls. Telling them that I am poor does not turn most of them off, not if they like you. It only deters those with bad intentions who don't like you that much.

Conversely, having a lot of money doesn't create attraction. If a girl doesn't enjoy being around you and doesn't like your personality, she'll dump you, even for a les richer guy.

You have some points Winston, but some of them are a stretch. To say that having money does not create attraction is not quite so. It may not create attraction in some real direct ways, but it certainly creates assumptions upon which many of us operate- not just filipinas. You also seem to imply that a filipina caring about a mans income and status is automatically a bad thing.
Nate

I think you and Winston are both right, but you're looking at things from a different angle. Winston thinks it is difficult or impossible for a foreigner to date middle class or rich girls, but I've done it. But, as Winston says, my girlfriend had suitors much much richer than me. Millionaires from Japan and Korea, but I am always all smiles, joking and fun to be around. She chose me. I'm not exactly broke either. I could take care of her and if I was broke, never worked or never tried to advance in life, I don't think she would have chosen me.

I've also had very educated girls with cars, (I don't have a car) who were into me. Winston is right that personality will win first, but Nate is correct that no amount of personality is going to be enough for a girl who at least expects the same quality of life her parents could give her.

Then again, you do have a lot of girls here who work hard all day, make great money and their husbands sit at home drinking and rubbing their big belly.

[The_Adventurer]

Filipinos act like money grows on trees because it does.

To them.

They are from a tropical island culture near the equator with 2 or 3 growing seasons.

This means that food is never a problem and their values were like what Cook found in Tahiti in the 1700's.

So they don't care about wasting food because food is plentiful and grows copiously in the RP.

Just replace 'food' with 'money'.

I heard the Cook Islands is much much worse. I heard the westerners can't even staff the hotels there because the people lack for nothing. Food grows everywhere and any kid can walk to a water hole and have all the fish and crab they can eat. The turnover rate is astounding because the people will work for a couple of weeks, save up enough to get a TV or DVD player and then bail on the hotel.

My friend said he and a local were standing on a hill overlooking a rich resort and the local said, "This is what makes you guys happy? I don't get it."

$2,000 USD per month is not that much money here in China. I know people making that much teaching English. More, even. Some make $3,000 per month. Sure, executive placements to China from USA firms make $10k per month, but who wants to work load and stress?

When it is 8 am to 6 pm in the USA it is 8 pm to 9 am in Manila and China. This means a night schedule, disrupted sleep patterns, and low quality of life.

Most of us who moved away from the USA are tired of the success obsessed culture of America and the work yourself to death attitude. Working the nightshift in Asia via telecommunting sounds like more of the same USA hamster wheel of death grind.

My god. Has China changed that much since I was there? When I was there I stayed in a 5 star hotel, cleaned out the bar every other night, smoked the cigarettes they stocked my room with, ate in the restaurants and charged it to my room, ordered room service often, and after two weeks, my bill was $600 USD or so. I could have lived like king there for $1500. I looked at high rise apartments that were $200 a month and they were awesome. A skilled animator made $400 a month. What happened?

[globetrotter]

$2,000 USD per month is not that much money here in China. I know people making that much teaching English. More, even. Some make $3,000 per month. Sure, executive placements to China from USA firms make $10k per month, but who wants to work load and stress?

When it is 8 am to 6 pm in the USA it is 8 pm to 9 am in Manila and China. This means a night schedule, disrupted sleep patterns, and low quality of life.

Most of us who moved away from the USA are tired of the success obsessed culture of America and the work yourself to death attitude. Working the nightshift in Asia via telecommunting sounds like more of the same USA hamster wheel of death grind.

My god. Has China changed that much since I was there? When I was there I stayed in a 5 star hotel, cleaned out the bar every other night, smoked the cigarettes they stocked my room with, ate in the restaurants and charged it to my room, ordered room service often, and after two weeks, my bill was $600 USD or so. I could have lived like king there for $1500. I looked at high rise apartments that were $200 a month and they were awesome. A skilled animator made $400 a month. What happened?

Huh?

I quoted salaries.
You quoted costs.

They are, uh - different.

$45 a day will get you the same experience now in smaller cities. It is impossible to spend that much money on food, cigs and booze unless you go to a large provincial capital or Shanghai, Beijing, etc. Shanghai is now like NYC. $1500 a month still gets you to live like a king.

What happened? Success. Saving money and being the world's banker of last resort. Building everything you own.

[Winston]

I think you and Winston are both right, but you're looking at things from a different angle. Winston thinks it is difficult or impossible for a foreigner to date middle class or rich girls, but I've done it. But, as Winston says, my girlfriend had suitors much much richer than me. Millionaires from Japan and Korea, but I am always all smiles, joking and fun to be around. She chose me. I'm not exactly broke either. I could take care of her and if I was broke, never worked or never tried to advance in life, I don't think she would have chosen me.

I've also had very educated girls with cars, (I don't have a car) who were into me. Winston is right that personality will win first, but Nate is correct that no amount of personality is going to be enough for a girl who at least expects the same quality of life her parents could give her.

Then again, you do have a lot of girls here who work hard all day, make great money and their husbands sit at home drinking and rubbing their big belly.

You are correct Terrence. Money matters, but it isn't everything. It is like a prerequisite. What I am arguing against is that some guys out there claim that women are ALL about money or place it as the highest value. If that were so, rich guys would never get rejected and would be chosen over everyone else. That isn't so. Women commonly reject rich guys if they do not like his personality, do not feel happy around him, or do not feel good around him.

But here in the Philippines, even poor and broke guys get girlfriends. Some say that most of the bar girls in the Philippines have Filipino boyfriends back home that they support even. Imagine that. That's the beauty of the Philippines, in that anyone can get a girlfriend, even if they are broke.

Terrence, you may have dated middle class girls in the PH or Korea, but you are one person and not the majority experience. Dating middle class girls is not something that happens everyday easily. It's possible of course. But I'm saying that it's not something you can just get anytime you want. It takes connections and other things.

[momopi]

Hint: many women don't like men who brags about their wealth and status. You can use this "turn off" tactic to get rid of girls that you're not interested in, without saying it directly. Sometimes it's better to have the other party think that they made the choice and not you. For use in delicate situations where offending someone's daughter may be harmful to your health.

For those seeking oversea assignments, you should expect your employer to pay for expenses and not worry about the cost of hotel, transportation, food, etc. Sometimes the employer won't offer it and you have to ask/negotiate for it. Be warned that if your boss is paying for your home internet bill and your cel phone bill, they'd expect you to check work e-mail from home. I get work e-mail on my iphone 24/7.

If you don't like your job, quit and find something else to do. Every company has 2 columns, the "assets' and the "expenses". As an employee, you're most likely in the expense column.

Filipinos live with their large families to save money. From my observation of the ones that live here in Southern CA, the ones who have money won't say it. You have to observe the Mercedez in their driveway and phone conversations with their property manager.

[FuzzX]

Having dated a girl from a well to do family for 2 years I can attest to what you all are saying. Unfortunately when you want to get married or suggest it, a whole new set of rules goes into play. She expects to be treated like her mom and thus you take on the roll of workhorse.

My fiance dumped me because I wasn't successful enough however if I had never suggested marriage, I bet, we would still be together today. Marriage is a working man's game. I literally did nothing in Mexico except teach a few classes here and there. My girlfriend's father ran a 5 star resort and was fairly wealthy... he did not like me
She had plenty of rich men pursuing her but chose to come and slum it in the 'ghetto' with me.

Never suggest marriage... marriage for women is a business deal and if you aren't in a position to make that deal then expect to be out of work soon after.

It's better to just remain gf and bf... nothing changes when she gets a ring except her power over you. Well... thats for well to do women... I have learned from this... poor women are the way to go, they have nicer families and place more importance on keeping the family happy than the useless accumulation of expensive stuff.

[Montanaland]

I couldn't agree with you more fuzzx on instantly becoming the workhorse after marriage. I can remember one of my ex's crying one night about how I can't even support her during my last and slowest year as a realtor.Her father literally had back surgery 4 times because he worked as a dog around their 4k sq ft house..while the mom does nothing but sits on laptop for 20+yrs. Another example of this also just popped up on the tv the other day while I was watching a pbs documentary about "no mans land" -the rural area in Irag next to the Iran border. Anyhow this young man had (It's tradition) his grandfather ask the girls dad if he could marry her and on the truck ride over to the meeting the young man was getting lectured about how marriage specifically means being able to support the wife. Again the majority of marriage is us supporting the wife even if she decides to say the hell with work and take up couch surfing on you while that 50-100K or more in your bank account you busted your ass to save will never be your money!

[Winston]

Having dated a girl from a well to do family for 2 years I can attest to what you all are saying. Unfortunately when you want to get married or suggest it, a whole new set of rules goes into play. She expects to be treated like her mom and thus you take on the roll of workhorse.

My fiance dumped me because I wasn't successful enough however if I had never suggested marriage, I bet, we would still be together today. Marriage is a working man's game. I literally did nothing in Mexico except teach a few classes here and there. My girlfriend's father ran a 5 star resort and was fairly wealthy... he did not like me
She had plenty of rich men pursuing her but chose to come and slum it in the 'ghetto' with me.

Never suggest marriage... marriage for women is a business deal and if you aren't in a position to make that deal then expect to be out of work soon after.

It's better to just remain gf and bf... nothing changes when she gets a ring except her power over you. Well... thats for well to do women... I have learned from this... poor women are the way to go, they have nicer families and place more importance on keeping the family happy than the useless accumulation of expensive stuff.

Are you sure it's better to marry into a poor family? I thought it was the opposite? A rich or middle class family can help you and drive you around and do favors for you. But a poor family is only going to try to leech off you and drain your resources. Right? So how can a poor family be better?

FuzzX, where did your fiance come from? What country were you in?

[FuzzX]

Are you sure it's better to marry into a poor family? I thought it was the opposite? A rich or middle class family can help you and drive you around and do favors for you. But a poor family is only going to try to leech off you and drain your resources. Right? So how can a poor family be better?

FuzzX, where did your fiance come from? What country were you in?

Mexico, Puerto Vallarta

And yes ABSOLUTELY. A lower middle class family may help you, a rich one WONT. I dated a lower middle class girl in Toluca, Mexico... I am still friends with her family to this day. They treated me so well... like I was part of the family. Initially they rented me an apartment to stay in with their daughter, gave me groceries, cooked for me and taught me all about clowning (the father and daughter were a clown duo). The cousins took english classes from me at around 100 pesos an hour (thats pretty good there) and I was invited to all the family outtings and two weddings. We got drunk together and I had a blast with them.

Then I dated a rich girl. Now, I'm not sure how rich you are Winston but unless you own a multi-national corporation or at least a yacht, my ex-father in law won't even look at you. There family was talking one day about how a girl that my ex went to school with was marrying a pilot.

They were so ashamed.... YES A PILOT... The family was upset their daughter was dating a pilot!!!! WTF... anyway the guy my ex's sister married came from a rich family and he was General Manager of some largish department store in Mexico... the father and mother were so ashamed of her for doing that as the sister spent at least 2500 US dollars per month and was always broke and complaining her husband didn't make enough. That is like spending $15,000 US dollars a month in the USA. The father believed only expensive things including food, restaurants, clothing, cars were things of QUALITY. Instead of buying a movie on the street for a dollar they would make a B-Line for Walmart and pay $60 for the same thing but told me that the quality was 100x better. They always thought I was inferior and an imposter in their family. None of them got along with each other and the mother and father were constantly fighting and cheating on each other. They never spoke to their daughter at any length until I arrived on the scene and they found they were losing control. When I met my ex she was 20 and stayed with me in the ghetto for 3 days at a stretch. Her home life must have been pretty f***ing bad because I was scammed into renting a piece of shit apartment in the PV ghetto complete with Tarantulas, Geckos and milipedes.

Rich people are very concerned what other people think about them and how their 'friends' look at their family.
Anyway if you ain't got the $$$, rich people (parents) will hate you. You are an embarrassment if you make under $500,000/year. Her father owns 2 houses in Mexico, 2 houses in Peru + 1 apartment building, they have expensive clothes and cars and he runs a 5 star hotel in Puerto Vallarta... he makes around 2 or 300,000 dollars US per year... in Mexico he is a multi multi multi peso-aire...and an arrogant f**k!

The dude REFUSED to meet my parents at any time, REFUSED to accept gifts from us, REFUSED to speak to me and wouldn't even look at me during meals. I was never allowed to stay in the house (I had to rent my own hotel room, even though they had 2 guest bedrooms). The mother rejected FREE english classes from me.. My family kept her here rent free no questions asked for a whole year. (Here in Canada). Her family REFUSED to speak to my parents.

I was the best thing that ever happened to that girl and now she regrets dumping me... 6 months later she is still trying to get me back.

Trust me... nothing good comes from dating rich women. Even if you think you can change her.. as soon as she's back around her parents and friends, you become the enemy. I was with this girl 2.5 YEARS.


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My dear john letter went something like this:

Dear FuzzX

I don't like looking at ugly houses for you to rent. I will not do this anymore. I think we need to go our own ways. You are 30, live in your parent's basement, don't have a degree and are a loser.
If you want to be with me you will make yourself more successful and then come look for me.

until then goodbye.

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We were to be married in 3 months when she finished her degree. Then I got this 2 months after she returned to Mexico to stay with her parents and finish her degree ... my parents renovated the basement and made it into a separate apartment for the both of us to live in as a wedding gift.

Remember this about rich families:

If you need help of any kind, you are an embarrassment and a burden to their 'image'.

I'm going back to dating lower class girls thanks.

[globetrotter]

In many developing countries Expensive==Better Quality.

I saw this in L.A. amongst the upper middle class and up, too. Put a higher price tag on something that looks nice and the rich eat it up.
This just increases your profit. There is nothing extra there, just more money spent and wasted.

If you are like most guys here you think for yourself and create your own internally validating value system. So you don't care to meet someone else's notion of success - get a degree, not live with parents, don't be a loser, all that shit.

I am 50 and I don't care what anyone thinks about me anymore. I also know that marriage equals me being a specialised debt slave and beast of burden to a financially, emotionally and socially dependent wife and children and I don't want that. Maybe a lower middle class girl, but no one who wants stuff stuff stuff, because I won't be happy living a life of getting stuff. A poor girls whose family appreciates what I have to offer.

You know, US citizenship, my Social Security benefits (if any of us get them), and all that.