Winston in China! Updates and Photos

[zboy1]

I should know about healthcare costs in the U.S.--I was involved in the healthcare profession before I moved to China, so I'm an expert on the cost of healthcare. It would've cost me hundreds of dollars--even with insurance!--for the treatment of my tonsillitis and antibiotics and drugs, which cost under 100RMB (basically 15-20 dollars) in China. LOL!

But, some hospitals in China look filthy, so I'm glad there's some private hospitals and clinics staffed by foreign doctors in most Chinese cities.

[Yohan]

http://qz.com/524817/chinas-government- ... source=YPL

Full article link above.
Not only in USA, in China too....

Around 220,000 investors in China stand to lose billions of dollars following the mysterious suspension six months ago of all trading at the Fanya Metal Exchange, a trading platform-turned-asset manager.

One of them is Zhou, a 30-year-old urban planner from Hangzhou, in the southeastern Zhejiang province. She and her husband, Chen, invested 90% of her family’s savings, or about 2 million yuan, in Fanya. Their account has been frozen since Fanya said in April it had run into liquidity problems. To add insult to injury, their income, which totaled around 40,000 yuan ($6,327) a month, has halved because China’s property market is cooling. The couple has decided to put their home on the market and move in with her in-laws to make ends meet.

Equally distressing for Zhou and other investors who Quartz interviewed for this story is the near total absence of any official action. The police have not arrested anyone, and the national institutions that are supposed to protect investors have been silent.

In fact, in extensive conversations with eight of these investors among dozens we contacted, a deeply troubling picture emerges of the limits of China’s government’s push to cultivate its emerging middle class. How, as it encourages its citizens to speculate and consume more, will the state ensure they’re fairly treated and fulfill its self-anointed role of protector?

[AsiaHand]

I haven't read through this whole thread, but some people here are in dire need of a few red pills. Maybe a handful. I like China as much as the next guy, and I'll put my knowledge about the country up against anybody. But you guys are in serious delusional states if you can't recognize the serious problems China has. It's an ecological basket case. There are no places in China today that do not have serious pollution, be it air, water or soil. None. China has passed the point of no return; its leaders over the last 25 years really screwed the pooch. Food and product safety are non-existent, as are safe construction standards. Build it cheaper and faster is the MO of Chinese companies. The only consideration is as much profit, quickly as possible.

What I find most incomprehensible are the guys (particularly Asian Americans) on here prattling on about how Chinese should realize how 'great' they have it, and should not think about ever leaving. Spoken like someone with a foreign passport safely in hand, who enjoys a life of privilege abroad, but can leave at anytime when the shit hits the fan. Believe me, the Chinese understand their country WAY better than you guys do-they know all too well the endemic corruption that permeates every level of society, and the environmental problems I pointed out above.

If any of you can read Chinese, I suggest you take a look at Chinese social media sites and other publications. There have been many polls that reveal some very telling facts about Chinese and how they feel about the state of China. Some highlights: 80% of people who consider themselves wealthy or middle class above are seriously considering immigration to the West. Another poll asked Chinese women if they wanted to give birth overseas: 70% said yes. Of course for Chinese, this invariably means the US, because they all know that children born in the US are automatic citizens, and can petition for their family when they reach adulthood.

So while China can be a fascinating, enjoyable place to live, keep it reality-based, folks.

[Rock]

I haven't read through this whole thread, but some people here are in dire need of a few red pills. Maybe a handful. I like China as much as the next guy, and I'll put my knowledge about the country up against anybody. But you guys are in serious delusional states if you can't recognize the serious problems China has. It's an ecological basket case. There are no places in China today that do not have serious pollution, be it air, water or soil. None. China has passed the point of no return; its leaders over the last 25 years really screwed the pooch. Food and product safety are non-existent, as are safe construction standards. Build it cheaper and faster is the MO of Chinese companies. The only consideration is as much profit, quickly as possible.

What I find most incomprehensible are the guys (particularly Asian Americans) on here prattling on about how Chinese should realize how 'great' they have it, and should not think about ever leaving. Spoken like someone with a foreign passport safely in hand, who enjoys a life of privilege abroad, but can leave at anytime when the shit hits the fan. Believe me, the Chinese understand their country WAY better than you guys do-they know all too well the endemic corruption that permeates every level of society, and the environmental problems I pointed out above.

If any of you can read Chinese, I suggest you take a look at Chinese social media sites and other publications. There have been many polls that reveal some very telling facts about Chinese and how they feel about the state of China. Some highlights: 80% of people who consider themselves wealthy or middle class above are seriously considering immigration to the West. Another poll asked Chinese women if they wanted to give birth overseas: 70% said yes. Of course for Chinese, this invariably means the US, because they all know that children born in the US are automatic citizens, and can petition for their family when they reach adulthood.

So while China can be a fascinating, enjoyable place to live, keep it reality-based, folks.

China has a population density of almost 5 times that of USA. Much of the architecture and structures you see are hideous and depressing. It's very telling that many of the rich in China invest huge portions of their assets outside of China and/or emigrate to other countries. And I was very surprised to find that in spite of China's amazing economic development over last 1-2 decades, it seems if anything, a higher percentage of people are keen to move to west than before.

I guess 10 years ago during the super high growth phase, people were seeing nothing but improvement and believed China was going to become a better place than the west. But at this point, they are left with super inflated property prices, a slowing economy, and an increasingly challenging job market.

The real value in China vis-a-vis Anglo countries for guys like zboy and Winston is simply the dating and even marriage opportunities. Girls back in USA including Asian Americans don't even take them seriously. But in China, they can still date attractive young women and even find love. That's a critical life changing difference right there!

Also, people like zboy who probably felt abused by the broader society in USA are much more at home in China. The Chinese will generally welcome them and treat them with respect, especially if they learn good Mandarin and adopt local habits and customs.

If someone really wants a better quality of life with much less of the social toxins prevalent in USA, I would suggest Taiwan. Taiwan society has developed under strong influences from both Japan and the USA. The people are both polite and also quality conscious. Things in Taiwan are efficient, straightforward, and user friendly. Corruption is very low. It's super cheap too, much cheaper than Japan or even Korea. And medical care is also almost free with the National Health Service system which covers basic dental needs as well.

[The_Adventurer]

Look, I've done my time in China and I could certainly consider moving on, but wrong is wrong. Since you said to keep it reality based, I have to comment on some of your statement.

It's an ecological basket case. There are no places in China today that do not have serious pollution, be it air, water or soil. None.

BS. I live in such a place. I have travelled to a few others. Despite what they have done to the majority of the country, there are still pristine, beautiful places full of natural scenery, gorgeous mountain villages, river towns and lush forests. These are places where you could drink from the river and the air is as clean as the best natural spots on earth.

Read stories about all the people escaping Beijing or other big city hells. Where are they going? They are going to places such as those I mention.

Of course, there's no chance of getting a job there, so few people have any reason to concern themselves with such locations.

Food and product safety are non-existent, as are safe construction standards. Build it cheaper and faster is the MO of Chinese companies. The only consideration is as much profit, quickly as possible.

Build it cheaper and faster is the MO of ALL companies. That's just business today. Still, food and product safety have improved immeasurably in the last five years. The Chinese systems works on precedent. This means that something bad happens first, and then they fix it.

When I arrived here in 2010 there was some kind of food scandal, or construction related accident, every week. Dirty oil, fake eggs, cat meat, shoe products in food, poisonous substances, you name it. Buildings were catching fire, falling over for no reason, or people got asbestos poisoning. In the time since, they have shut down many operations, made many arrests and cleaned a lot of this stuff up. This stuff simply doesn't happen as much as it used to. Things have improved greatly.

What I find most incomprehensible are the guys (particularly Asian Americans) on here prattling on about how Chinese should realize how 'great' they have it, and should not think about ever leaving. Spoken like someone with a foreign passport safely in hand, who enjoys a life of privilege abroad, but can leave at anytime when the shit hits the fan. Believe me, the Chinese understand their country WAY better than you guys do-they know all too well the endemic corruption that permeates every level of society, and the environmental problems I pointed out above.

In the time that I have been here, my wife has changed from wanting to be the first out the door to thinking China is the future and desiring to stay here. I don't necessarily agree, but I can see why. Things have improved a lot in her country over the years.

From what I have seen and heard, more Chinese with money go to Singapore than the US. They also go the Europe, Australia, basically [v]everywhere[/b]. Only American arrogance thinks everybody still wants to go to USA.

[AsiaHand]

The 'pristine' places you speak of are so remote that it is impractical for anyone to live there so those are largely beside the point. And even many of those places have severe levels of soil and water pollution--the air quality is better only because no one lives there.

As far as food scandals, I read about them every week. The reason why you may think things have gotten better is only because the authorities cracked down on reporting of those events in a big way.

Your wife is a pretty small sample size. People are voting with their feet in droves. Most of them are in fact going to North America, mainly the US--this is not arrogance, it's statistics, which are readily available. Are you really going to argue that Singapore, a small island, is taking more Chinese immigrants than the US? There are close to 300k Chinese students alone in the US. At least 90% remain and adjust status. And many of those who do go back to work in China only do so after they have procured a foreign passport, US or otherwise.

You like living in China. Great. I spend a good part of the year there myself. I just don't kid myself about certain unpleasant realities.

[Ghost]

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[AsiaHand]

Now that I'm working on my second year in China, I find it hard to consider this country as a long term home. Definitely a lot of good things here, though some of is subjective. If you like the language, food, urban life, then yeah, you'll probably be fine as a long-termer here. But people are friendly, white foreigners are usually like (especially the positive ones - good thing for me it's easier to be positive when abroad), and there are lots of teaching jobs and some other opportunities here. Those are facts and not subjective.

For me, those things are dwindling fast, which might be cured if I give China one more chance and move to a first tier international city. Winston is doing so well because that's where he is. It's a legitimate strategy of course, and seems to work very well. Whereas I ended up in a shithole(ish) place twice, but at least it is a learning experience for me. If I failed a third time I would probably give up on China for good. Too many countries out there to keep failing in one, no matter how big it is.

And China does have a lot of problems, as does the U.S. or virtually every other country. But the people are better generally than Americans from what I've seen. Too pliable, but friendlier and more often and inclusive. And anyway, they've been around for 5000 years. I doubt they are going anywhere soon. Can't say the same for the U.S.

I agree on practically all points, for the same reasons. If it weren't for its abysmal pollution and food/product safety issues, I would probably live there full time. I like Taiwan, and have spent years there, but China is just intrinsically more interesting to me. I wish Taiwan had a retirement visa scheme like Malaysia, Thailand and the Phils. I could easily see myself in a city like Tainan or Taitung. Taipei as well, but decent real estate is just too damn expensive...

[Ghost]

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[The_Adventurer]

I think a good way to decide how much you really like a country is to ask yourself if you would still want to be there if it wasn't for women.

I think that's putting women in too high a place in life. I think a better question to ask is would you still want to be there if you had $10 million in the bank.

[AsiaHand]

I think a good way to decide how much you really like a country is to ask yourself if you would still want to be there if it wasn't for women.

I think that's putting women in too high a place in life. I think a better question to ask is would you still want to be there if you had $10 million in the bank.

Yes and no. If you had $10 million in the bank, life anywhere would be pretty damn sweet, with the possible exception of a place like Saudi Arabia. So at that point, the women may become the tipping factor.

[Ghost]

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[Yohan]

.....and I'll put my knowledge about the country up against anybody. But you guys are in serious delusional states if you can't recognize the serious problems China has.
.....
So while China can be a fascinating, enjoyable place to live, keep it reality-based, folks.

I can only agree with you, I do not know if you read my previous comments.

For me China is for sightseeing and fun, it is a wide country with many impressive places to visit.

But otherwise?

To be in China as a foreign tourist for a few days or weeks is not the same as the life of a local worker in a factory.

It's without question a hard life for many ordinary Chinese.

[The_Adventurer]

Not really a useful question for me since I'll never have $10 million.

Well, not with that attitude. (You can't picture yourself being a super successful writer?)

So where do you put women?

Last. I have no interest in running around banging everything that movies. If I can get ONE girl, that's enough. Still got one in every country I've lived in. Sometimes two, but there are far too many things which are more important to me. I have written this more than once in this forum. Do your thing. Build a great life for yourself and women will surely want to join you in the adventure.

Most recently, as I put together my chart as to the best place to go, I considered these things in order of importance.

1. Cost of living
2. Visa hassles
3. Internet speed
4. Quality of environment (pollution, construction, rooms, noise, AC, safety)
5. Food
6. People (including women)

South Korea wins overall, but China actually beats it in many categories except ONE. The visa issues. Since that's high on my list, and having gone through some harrowing visa issues in the past, it's a show stopper for me. Philippines is also a clear winner in a few categories, but the quality of environment, and atrocious internet speed make it less than ideal.

One thing I didn't put on my list was business opportunities because, for me, that is, hands down, Japan.

[MarcosZeitola]

Last. I have no interest in running around banging everything that movies. If I can get ONE girl, that's enough. Still got one in every country I've lived in. Sometimes two, but there are far too many things which are more important to me. I have written this more than once in this forum. Do your thing. Build a great life for yourself and women will surely want to join you in the adventure.

Most recently, as I put together my chart as to the best place to go, I considered these things in order of importance.

1. Cost of living
2. Visa hassles
3. Internet speed
4. Quality of environment (pollution, construction, rooms, noise, AC, safety)
5. Food
6. People (including women)

South Korea wins overall, but China actually beats it in many categories except ONE. The visa issues. Since that's high on my list, and having gone through some harrowing visa issues in the past, it's a show stopper for me. Philippines is also a clear winner in a few categories, but the quality of environment, and atrocious internet speed make it less than ideal.

One thing I didn't put on my list was business opportunities because, for me, that is, hands down, Japan.

These are your own personal requirements; other men may have a very different check list. Cost of living is a major one for all of us, except those who have a very large fortune saved up. Visa hassles are another practical thing to keep in mind. Internet speed depends on the individual, it's not a major concern to all of us. Quality of environment is also subjective - some people thrive in cities, others in a simple country environment. Food is again a matter of taste, and people, being your last qualification, is number one for many.

I would probably put people and environment on number one. Culture is very important, the attitude of people. You either fit in or you don't, some cultures speak more to you then others.

A lot of people on this thread claim China to be this amazing place, but when we look at someone like Winston he is clearly biased because of his own Chinese roots. Hence you always hear him babbling about the supposed "racial superiority" of the Chinese people. The truth is, of course, that it's all very subjective and depends on the individual whether or not he enjoys a country.

Personally, I would not enjoy China because it does not allow me to fulfill the dreams and goals I have set for myself in life. Visiting it for a vacation or short stay is fine by me but I could never live in China long-term.