Why don't my interactions with women go any further?

[Eric]

I don't get this. It's something I've never NEVER understood. I think this problem for me, is particular to America...but I'm not certain. I have all the rest down. Most guys ARE losers, as someone else said... I really don't even have to compete. But, why is it...that it never gets past the looks, stares and gestures.
Why can't I snag women. Why so many mixed signals all the time. This is so frustrating! I agree with a lot of men on here that women basically do put men in a schizophrenic position and a rock and a hard place - with how they act, especially out in public in very short interchanges.
Sometimes, I'm trying to long for and hold on to being traditional roles, others I am just getting with it and going with the flow. Even then, I can't get laid. Why.
I think I half feel disgusted with the scene and how it is here, girls not caring about themselves, nor keeping nothing sacred. Everything's free and 'liberal' ... it's great. Except you're forced to it. I don't like it. I feel the sex is meaningless.Everything's meaningless
but I don't know. I'm just not satisfied/happy, and I'm not getting laid.

I'm a very attractive guy, not missing anything. What and why...?

[Wolfeye]

"Everything's meaningless"- an interesting point that I might have an actual answer to. It seems Americans feel like valuing anything is being pushed-around or "unfree" in some way, so they VALUE not VALUING anything- and are right back where they started. In theory, it could be a narcissism thing, where they feel like nothing's good enough for THEM- but then, someone can feel an immense sense of self-esteem for pretty much anything (including NOT being this way). I've noticed that a lot of narcissistic personality traits are common trends here (not TOTALLY, but that's one of them- thinking in terms of "THE VERY BEST" or "THE VERY WORST," no concept of anything in between).

Another thing is that approval doesn't facilitate attack, so they don't tend to like that feeling in the same way that someone might think a wrench is better than an orange because it would work better as a weapon. Maybe that has to do with all the shows about someone that looks so normal & they're really something foul? Forgetting what that sociopath looks LIKE is a possibility even without TV.

It seems that a lot of women feel like they're being a sell-out to have a good relationship with a man & there's A LOT of history to that (plenty that I'm not familiar with in detail, so I won't try to get into it). This feeling like it's an abdication of sorts might be why they don't "lean into a relationship." Something else that is more specific to women is that they seem to have "sections of life"- one where they're young & hot, one where they're old & frumpy. The first part is not one that includes meaningful relationships with people that actually treat them good (they'd form a bond to someone like that, but someone that treats them like shit is usually easier to break off from). Don't get that, myself- since she COULD just keep in shape & be vigorous with a serious boyfriend or a husband, even if they DO have kids together. A lot of chicks get married & stop doing all the things they did when they were dating that kept the relationship together- men, too.

Top all this off with a very work-centered society & borderline paranoia about most of life- it's not a good situation for men or women to try to "grow things" in. Not impossible, just unfavorable.

[Eric]

This is the whole thing - we are being liberated from everything. We are slaves to liberty! Doesn't anybody understand this?... God, it's so frustrating. Sometimes, I can't even go outside - it's so depressing, just seeing everyone's faces, and that liberalism all over it, and how they act...it throws me into a depression. I'm serious!
Never did people stop to think... that liberty was a weapon. Substitute, in this passage, the State for the individual person and their "psychology." This paragraph talks about how govs. can be weakened and taken over by introducing liberalism. Imagine this effect on the individual person.
"Political freedom is an idea but not a fact. This idea one must know how to apply whenever it appears necessary with this bait of an idea to attract the masses of the people to one's party for the purpose of crushing another who is in authority. This task is rendered easier if the opponent has himself been infected with the idea of freedom, SO-CALLED LIBERALISM, and, for the sake of an idea, is willing to yield some of his power. It is precisely here that the triumph of our theory appears; the slackened reins of government are immediately, by the law of life, caught up and gathered together by a new hand, because the blind might of the nation cannot for one single day exist without guidance, and the new authority merely fits into the place of the old already weakened by liberalism."

"In all corners of the earth the words "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity," brought to our ranks, thanks to our blind agents, whole legions who bore our banners with enthusiasm. And all the time these words were canker-worms at work boring into the well-being of the people, putting an end everywhere to peace, quiet, solidarity and destroying all the foundations of the States.

When we introduced into the State organism the poison of Liberalism its whole political complexion underwent a change. States have been seized with a mortal illness—blood poisoning. All that remains is to await the end of their death agony.

1. The word "freedom," which can be interpreted in various ways, is defined by us as follows –

2. Freedom is the right to do what which the law allows. This interpretation of the word will at the proper time be of service to us, because all freedom will thus be in our hands, since the laws will abolish or create only that which is desirable for us according to the aforesaid program.

-it doesn't matter who wrote it. Ask yourself, is this true?

[Eric]

The worst part about this crap, and I don't think I'm the only one in saying this, is that...it makes you give up being the 'good guy' you once were, or tried so hard to be. After-all, if all the foundations are eroding - what's the point? at least that's how I felt.

It's really depressing. Also, the temptation is constantly there for sleeping around with other women or "getting some" like everyone else around you is. You feel like it's happening all around you, so you feel weak, even less motivation for sticking to being a "good guy". It's like a double blow. No wonder no good guys are really left, anymore.
I don't feel like these guys go out and become ultra-players, most of them just become horribly, terribly depressed...and lonely losers.

[cdnFA]

To answer your question and borrow a line of yours from another thread.
"someone will strike up a conversation about politics and then, I'll start contributing and then - suddenly "I'm crazy" because I was saying something about Trump.
Are you not allowed to talk about Illuminati to someone in public conversation?"

This is why. OK I can give you a pass on the Trump thing, seems there are a lot of Americans who actually like the guy, but most realize that he is bat shit crazy. The only thing more nutty than implying that you will invade Mexico if they don't pay for the wall is the suggest that you need to strengthen the US military to be able to do it. He also just comes across as nutty.
If you go talking about Trump in a good way, a lot of people will think you have a screw loose.
As for the Illumanti, pump that up to 95% who will think you are crazy.

If you are going to go on about the Rothbards, the Illuminati, chemtrails, anti vaccine, or even go off the deep end with the flat earth, Nazi shit, and other weirdness that seems popular here, people are going to think you are nuts.

The bigger problem isn't what you believe but that you seem so far removed from reality that you don't realize how it must come across to other people.

It has nothing to do with freedom of speech, however other people have the right to freedom of association.

You have two options.
1: Keep your beliefs quiet till someone brings it up
2: Let your freak flag fly in the hopes that you will find someone who believes as you do or at least tolerates it.
3: Go overseas and hope the language and cultural barrier is enough that the girls don't figure how weird you are.
4: Go on steroids, get a lot of money and be such an uber stud that you can talk about how you use "My Little Pony" as porn and they won't care. Good luck on that.

On the plus side, I know a girl who you probably would get along perfectly fine with, but she already has a guy, but there has to be others. I also know another girl who also believes a lot of weird things and doesn't have a very good filter for information, but she is almost 50, ugly and annoyingly vapid. However it is rare as f**k.

Blah, the answer is very simple. You're either ugly, on the autism spectrum or not part of a decent social group. If you're nomal and good looking as you say, you should probably get off the internet and try befriending awesome dudes in your local area. That's how you get access to top tier p***y. It's really that simple.

Yeah you should be a winner like uhaveautism, the sort of winner who has nothing better to do then create an account on some forum and in about 2 days post 14 messages calling people losers and giving useless troll advice.

[cdnFA]

14 posts = 14 mins over 2 days. You must really have nothing better to do if you count every min of the day lol

The logic fail is strong in this one.

If I were counting every minute of the day it would imply that I was busy enough that I would have to make every minute count.

I stick to my original opinion of you. Winners in life have better things to do than trolling on the internet. Not only that but trolling is also usually beneath societies winners. They might mock someone they come across in real life but to actually seek out people to mock, that speaks volumes about how much of a loser you are.

Trust me on this. it takes one to know one and I know you are a human failure.

[Zambales]

Seriously, you have the brain of a four year old. You're aware/counting of every min of the day because you have nothing better to do. While you were typing I was having a Skype chat and messaging 3-5 girls from my FB page and writing grants appz. I already have two grants for aquaponics-methods totally $100,000 dollars

You sound familiar.

Black Knight?

[Eric]

To answer your question and borrow a line of yours from another thread.
"someone will strike up a conversation about politics and then, I'll start contributing and then - suddenly "I'm crazy" because I was saying something about Trump.
Are you not allowed to talk about Illuminati to someone in public conversation?"

This is why. OK I can give you a pass on the Trump thing, seems there are a lot of Americans who actually like the guy, but most realize that he is bat shit crazy. The only thing more nutty than implying that you will invade Mexico if they don't pay for the wall is the suggest that you need to strengthen the US military to be able to do it. He also just comes across as nutty.
If you go talking about Trump in a good way, a lot of people will think you have a screw loose.
As for the Illumanti, pump that up to 95% who will think you are crazy.

If you are going to go on about the Rothbards, the Illuminati, chemtrails, anti vaccine, or even go off the deep end with the flat earth, Nazi shit, and other weirdness that seems popular here, people are going to think you are nuts.

The bigger problem isn't what you believe but that you seem so far removed from reality that you don't realize how it must come across to other people.

It has nothing to do with freedom of speech, however other people have the right to freedom of association.

You have two options.
1: Keep your beliefs quiet till someone brings it up
2: Let your freak flag fly in the hopes that you will find someone who believes as you do or at least tolerates it.
3: Go overseas and hope the language and cultural barrier is enough that the girls don't figure how weird you are.
4: Go on steroids, get a lot of money and be such an uber stud that you can talk about how you use "My Little Pony" as p**n and they won't care. Good luck on that.

On the plus side, I know a girl who you probably would get along perfectly fine with, but she already has a guy, but there has to be others. I also know another girl who also believes a lot of weird things and doesn't have a very good filter for information, but she is almost 50, ugly and annoyingly vapid. However it is rare as f**k.

Blah, the answer is very simple. You're either ugly, on the autism spectrum or not part of a decent social group. If you're nomal and good looking as you say, you should probably get off the internet and try befriending awesome dudes in your local area. That's how you get access to top tier p***y. It's really that simple.

Yeah you should be a winner like uhaveautism, the sort of winner who has nothing better to do then create an account on some forum and in about 2 days post 14 messages calling people losers and giving useless troll advice.

But if all this crap that we're actually talking about here - is reality, then how can I be so far from it?

That doesn't make sense. .. And I see what you are saying, I think a better way of putting it is, so far removed from the reality that exists in the western hemisphere now, or quite possibly America.
I won't give up my common sense/sanity just to fit into stupid.
Thing is I don't think I'm that weird. I mean, maybe I am. But I really don't think so. I think others are weird for being so detached, uninformed/ believing anything anyone tells them. How weird is that?
But anyway, if I were in China or something...I seriously doubt I'd have to talk about any of this crap - because, I'd be too busy enjoying my life, doing things, around normal people in a society that is essentially more baseline normal.

I see what you're saying though, you just have to be careful here. A lot of people are ignorant - and you have to be careful saying what you say. It's just how it is.
I don't know. I'm still trying to figure out this country...things changing so rapidly. It's hard to find an "ideal" way of living here - it used to be you get a good career, and that would get you married/etc, attract women. I've never been a stud with women, here. I think there are reasons for that that go beyond looks, and into a dissonance between beliefs and what we value. I'd most certainly fare better overseas for multitude of reasons.
But that's just, neither here nor there.

[Eric]

They've hosed everything around here so much, confused everybody - what is the modern definition of success? Of manhood? Of womanhood...of even childhood. See, this is what I am talking about, nobody can get along and agree on anything. There is so much dissonance it's incredible. There is very little reward, I feel - for seeking a traditional life, now. Most people (women) are trained to seek out losers and see it as the way to be.
So if you are a good man you get no p*ssy, or you get passed up. I have that idiot uhaveautism claiming that you are a loser because you can't go out and hang around some decent guys and attract p***y. It just doesn't work like that, anymore. Maybe in Europe it would. Girls here see you as a loser - unless you fit some stereotype of how they see you are supposed to act.
It may work a little, but hardly not enough. There is no way, it seems, of getting ahead w/out selling your soul somehow.
That's the truth, at least from where I see it, and even then - the reward is not even worth it.
I'm going to give up my life/career, act like a pseudo badboy (which isn't even real), badass or whatever...just to get a bunch of ass and p***y that doesn't mean anything, from girls who don't even like me? You must be out of your mind.
And in the end have nothing to show for, like a marriage...or anything built lasting.

[pete98146]

They've hosed everything around here so much, confused everybody - what is the modern definition of success? Of manhood? Of womanhood...of even childhood. See, this is what I am talking about, nobody can get along and agree on anything. There is so much dissonance it's incredible. There is very little reward, I feel - for seeking a traditional life, now. Most people (women) are trained to seek out losers and see it as the way to be.
So if you are a good man you get no p*ssy, or you get passed up. I have that idiot uhaveautism claiming that you are a loser because you can't go out and hang around some decent guys and attract p***y. It just doesn't work like that, anymore. Maybe in Europe it would. Girls here see you as a loser - unless you fit some stereotype of how they see you are supposed to act.
It may work a little, but hardly not enough. There is no way, it seems, of getting ahead w/out selling your soul somehow.
That's the truth, at least from where I see it, and even then - the reward is not even worth it.
I'm going to give up my life/career, act like a pseudo badboy (which isn't even real), badass or whatever...just to get a bunch of a** and p***y that doesn't mean anything, from girls who don't even like me? You must be out of your mind.
And in the end have nothing to show for, like a marriage...or anything built lasting.

Great post. You hit the nail right on the head here. The most powerful observation you pointed out is "Girls here see you as a loser unless you fit some stereotype of how they see you are supposed to fit in." Bingo!

Admitting you are a conservative or libertarian in today's dating market is literally a death sentence! Also as you say, is it worth it to sell your soul to get some tail? Your call! You could just lie and run around saying, "how about that Bernie Sanders?" I'm a staunch libertarian and I often ask myself this same question. If I was in my 20s, would I lie to get laid? I probably would. It's very important to get a lot of tail in your 20s. Ask any guy in his 50s and he'll tell you exactly the same thing. So yes...lie lie lie until you are blue in the face. Will you hate yourself in the morning? Probably but it's not like you are going to marry these chicks.

Hey it might be fun to create Alter Ego Eric! Go out and buy a Bernie shirt and ride that lie right into the bedroom.

Better yet, do get 50 Bernie stickers and go out to the nightclub this weekend. Hand them out to only hot girls. I'd walk up and say, "hey I'm Eric and I'm so confident in what Bernie is saying, I just want to make sure you are aboard?" What a cheezy door opener!! Then you say, "wow you look nice tonight...we should hook up sometime." LOL I'm such a man whore! I'd do it

[Zambales]

The problem with you Eric is that you're taking things too seriously and I'd imagine these vibes of yours are turning women off as they can sense the desperation in you.

You either need to change your approach or forget American women altogether which is easily rectified seeing you're off to China anyway. Look forward to a better quality type of woman in Asia. They're far more likely to be attracted to you for being a genuine guy than the headless chicks in the western world.

[Eric]

. Look forward to a better quality type of woman in Asia. They're far more likely to be attracted to you for being a genuine guy than the headless chicks in the western world.

That's true. I do take things too seriously - and always have, and then I tried a thing that doesn't work, "being a genuine guy" because I guess I thought that would work like in Victorian England or with chicks with brains and not feminism.
I know girls would be attracted to me there. I just know it. Here, girls can't stand you because they have problems with themselves. ...I think women would be bitchy even w/out the thinking. They just are. I don't know man.
I just got to keep living. I'm in this shit hole, doing the best I can.
I think thinking too hard has been my downfall - it's like taking that apple of knowledge in Garden of Eden. .. you're not supposed to do it. it spells trouble, when you get into controversial things and just, I can't explain ...want to delve into the nitty gritty and not take the simple path. I guess my curiosity opens me up to that. I don't know why do it - other than when I do...it is harder to stop - and I want to do it more. I get this "scary" feeling when I do it. You just CAN'T. I think that's what the Bible is all about, honestly, in the book of Genesis. You just have to keep going. Keep on going... I guess and hope I won't be thinking too hard In China.

Maybe one day, this will all be a bad memory fading away in the rearview mirror. Who knows

[cdnFA]

But if all this crap that we're actually talking about here - is reality, then how can I be so far from it?

That doesn't make sense. .. And I see what you are saying, I think a better way of putting it is, so far removed from the reality that exists in the western hemisphere now, or quite possibly America.
I won't give up my common sense/sanity just to fit into stupid.
Thing is I don't think I'm that weird. I mean, maybe I am. But I really don't think so. I think others are weird for being so detached, uninformed/ believing anything anyone tells them. How weird is that?
But anyway, if I were in China or something...I seriously doubt I'd have to talk about any of this crap - because, I'd be too busy enjoying my life, doing things, around normal people in a society that is essentially more baseline normal.

I see what you're saying though, you just have to be careful here. A lot of people are ignorant - and you have to be careful saying what you say. It's just how it is.
I don't know. I'm still trying to figure out this country...things changing so rapidly. It's hard to find an "ideal" way of living here - it used to be you get a good career, and that would get you married/etc, attract women. I've never been a stud with women, here. I think there are reasons for that that go beyond looks, and into a dissonance between beliefs and what we value. I'd most certainly fare better overseas for multitude of reasons.
But that's just, neither here nor there.

I am glad that you didn't get upset with what I said BTW, a lot of people would.

I don't think it is a matter of common sense, sanity or stupidity to be honest. People process evidence differently and trust different sources. It is not impossible for someone to be quite smart and follow mainstream thought or every conspiracy theory out there. Far from it, although you might find it hard to believe. I've looked into some of the alternative views, they tend to lie on a bed of outright lies that get quoted by "true believers" till they become " evidence and well has half truths and dodgy evidence. I am not going to try and convince you otherwise, I've had enough of people telling me that India is a clean place and stories of outdoor defecation and Modi's attempts to fix it are lies planted in the media by Big Pharma to convince people that Polio is eradicated by the vaccine and not better hygiene. I don't know if this sounds bat shit crazy to you, but it does to me and most people. If it does sound nutty, keep in mind that this is how you come across to most normal people, especially the intelligent informed ones. If this comes across as reasonable then well, this is the world you live in.


By weird, I mean, or I also mean as in unusual. Regardless of what the truth is, the world is as it is. However again, what I am telling you should not be in the slightest bit a surprise to you, and you should not be surprised that mentioning such views might be causing at least some of your problems. As for the solution and if the cure is worth the cost, only you can answer that.

I hope you made it this far. One weird person to another.
You mention in China you can enjoy life and do things. Well I am a big on public policy, not thing unusual but it is something that most people think it is weird to care about and most people who do have a position hold a highly inflated view of how informed they are which is rather annoying considering I have an economics degree as well as a personal passion for the field, even if the other person agrees with me, when you dig further, they really don't know why.
I've learned a long time ago to STFU about that interest. Sure I'll say the occasional thing but I won't get into it like I used to. I still do my readings on the subject and consider new positions but I have learned long ago that it really isn't something useful for social discourse. That doesn't stop me from doing other things.
If you are only interested in things people find weird, consider developing new hobbies and interests and focus on common ground.
Someone who only goes on about Marxist feminist dialectic [which brings all the boys to the yard] or Jebus is incredibly boring to most people. Such people who can dial it back can still form meaningful relationships with others [even my pro capitalist atheist self] by focusing on other things. If you are that unidimensional [I don't know you] well, it is what it is, but you know the why at least. some things are worth sacrificing.
Also, sorry to play captain Obvious but the more you get to know someone the more you can feel them out on stuff. I would never go up to a total stranger and let loose with a Jimmy Carr joke, but when you know someone for a while even his most brutal humour can be tried out and if it falls flat, you can haul back and continue the relationship.

[cdnFA]

That's true. I do take things too seriously - and always have, and then I tried a thing that doesn't work, "being a genuine guy" because I guess I thought that would work like in Victorian England or with chicks with brains and not feminism.
I know girls would be attracted to me there. I just know it. Here, girls can't stand you because they have problems with themselves. ...I think women would be bitchy even w/out the thinking. They just are. I don't know man.
I just got to keep living. I'm in this shit hole, doing the best I can.
I think thinking too hard has been my downfall - it's like taking that apple of knowledge in Garden of Eden. .. you're not supposed to do it. it spells trouble, when you get into controversial things and just, I can't explain ...want to delve into the nitty gritty and not take the simple path. I guess my curiosity opens me up to that. I don't know why do it - other than when I do...it is harder to stop - and I want to do it more. I get this "scary" feeling when I do it. You just CAN'T. I think that's what the Bible is all about, honestly, in the book of Genesis. You just have to keep going. Keep on going... I guess and hope I won't be thinking too hard In China.

Maybe one day, this will all be a bad memory fading away in the rearview mirror. Who knows

Taking things too seriously all the time doesn't work. Not because people are simple minded or stupid. It is just too intense. You can be serious but you need to let your hair down a bit also. Crack a joke or two, make a Simpsons reference, talk about cats, I donno, anything. I like hard core serious stuff also but if even if I shared that exact same interest, it would get a bit dull to always be talking about optimal taxation or Operation Barbarossa or why Justin Beiber is the First Evil. It doesn't make me shallow or simple minded, it just means I also like to have a bit of fun. Even in WWI soldiers were rotated into and out of the front lines on a regular basis.
Being a genuine guy only works if what is genuine is also attractive. Being the genuine guy who loves nothing but anime and thus talks about nothing but anime will drive away just about everyone but someone who is equally obsessed.

Oh, in East and South East Asia, there are exceptions but they are not known for being a serious people in the way you are. They tend not to take an interest in the greater world around them. The seriousness is more focussed in job, family, money, face and in the case of women brands.

Illustrative story. Guy teaching French to a class of females from Japan's top level universities [graduates]. He says that even they were are the best products of the Japanese system they know almost nothing about the world. They were learning French yet the only thing they knew about France were fashions and where the stores were. When he started talking about riots they all looked at him in almost confusion. Never mind that being students of French and being graduates of top schools you would figure they would know more than most, but nope. Also never mind that France and riots go together like England and Football hooliganism or Greece and tax evasion.

The PRC would be worse, not as if you can vote or effect any real change without risking being arrested.

A lot of people think of them as kind of unintellectual on anything that won't make them money.

However your level of Chinese and for the most part their level of English won't be good enough for you to have that sort of conversation with them, so it will save you from yourself. Or you might find the exception.


As for politics, the left does seem more vag dominated and the right, especially the libertarian world is more about the sausage.
However there are cross political marriages and really how important is a girl's view on day the Laffer curve or the Basic Guaranteed Income to a relationship. Maybe it is all that matters but it is a question to ask yourself. Most people are not very political any ways. Also views can change [mine have gone from libtertaianish to small government learning agnostic] and what happens then.

[Wolfeye]

Eric: Where did you get this quote. It DOES seem pretty apt.

An interesting point is that, in the Civil War, they were thinking that the whites of the north & the whites of the south were two different races. The northerners were descendants of the Puritans & before that the Saxons- they were always raving about freedom for its own sake, but would light people on fire at the drop of a hat. The southerners were the descendants of the Cavaliers & before that the Normans- they were held to be a bit aristocratic & quick to tell people what to do. I DEFINITELY see that as true with the northerners. Constantly waving a banner, but never actually being what they make themselves out to be. Always trying to "liberate" someone into being just like them & never giving up in this "struggle for freedom."