Is Our Earth FLAT and Motionless, Not a Spinning Globe?

[HouseMD]

Are all flat earthers lazy asses? It is not that hard to go to Antarctica and document it as a vast 100,000 mile long sea wall if that was the case.
When does the expedition leave? Maybe it is that if flat earthers made actual inquiry on the ground about their claims, that would make them scientific researchers, and all of science is a fraud, right? So to maintain their purity, flat earthers stay way from those tainted scientist and all their methodologies, like on the ground inquiry and documentation. Of course, it may be that flat earthers are unable to get to the extreme south as if you use a flat earth type map, as soon as you get south of the equator, your navigation quickly goes to hell.

PS, Note to MD: That space station project you did, well, I confess. I faked you out. Just as you were set to get your shots, I used my medieval catapult to launch on old lawn mower with three trash cans attached with chains across your camera view! Gotcha! If you had really studies your pics, you would have seen that Briggs and Stratton logo!

I would also hope that you can soon come clean on this science fakery as a Doctor! Cells do not exist! Have you eve seen one? Are you to tell me that a human body is some trillions cells all coordinated and working together like magic? Only a moron would believe such poppycock. Cell theory is part of the same scientific complex that brought us that round earth hoax! Flea ! Flea!

We've gone over this before in this same thread, and as I said I've read the relevant treaty. You need special permission from the U.S. government to go to Antarctica, otherwise you will be turned back. Let me know when you've gotten that permission to go exploring on your own.

The regulations focus on having a viable rescue plan in place. Otherwise, there is no one there to turn you back. As if there are hundreds of thousands of men working on the Antarctic Border Patrol. There have been several groups busted after the fact when their adventures required rescue efforts or there was loss of life. Im waiting for that video.."Watch our group turned back by the Antarctic Border Patrol!"
If you inform yourself about both Arctic and Antarctic extreme conditions, it is not the kind of place where you can run your zodiac up to the beach and go strolling around to check it out. Conditions are extreme and very remote. Otherwise you are free to go there if you have all the assets you need for exploration and rescue.

That is almost certainly not true, but feel free to cite your source. As I point out above in the edited post, you also have said that one can see the earth's curvature from an airplane. That is not true. And you said that a ship's bottom disappearing on the horizon before its top proves the earth's curvature. That is not true.

if you want a report from someone who explored Antarctica before the treaty was in force, check Capt. Cook's log. Three years, 60,000+ miles trying to sail around it.

There many copies of the map of Capt. Cook's journeys. The 60,000 miles reference included the distance to and from England and many side-trips in both the Atlantic and Pacific. He did travel around Antarctica. He went a long ways all to be eaten...

Here is the text of the Antarctic Treaty. It is simple and short, and nowhere does it restrict access to Antarctica except that it prohibits military activity there. https://www.state.gov/t/avc/trty/193967.htm#treaty

Aside from the relative ease by which one can visit, you can also easily get jobs in Antarctica, as few people want to work there and they are always hiring for everything from janitors to bartenders at the research bases.

[gsjackson]

What is unclear about Article VII, section 1 of the Antarctica treaty? You have to get permission of the United States or the government of whichever signatory nation you are a citizen of if you want to go there, for employment or any other purpose. Try getting that permission for unbridled exploration.

[Cornfed]

Aside from the relative ease by which one can visit, you can also easily get jobs in Antarctica, as few people want to work there and they are always hiring for everything from janitors to bartenders at the research bases.

How would being a bartender at a research base allow you to test the theory of whether it was the end of the earth?

[gsjackson]

Aside from the relative ease by which one can visit, you can also easily get jobs in Antarctica, as few people want to work there and they are always hiring for everything from janitors to bartenders at the research bases.

How would being a bartender at a research base allow you to test the theory of whether it was the end of the earth?

Full disclosure (as I would hope all FEers would practice): One of the FEers, Rob Skiba, says he has talked to someone who worked as a cook in Antarctica, who had flown between locations there. The flight times appear to make more sense on a globe map than a FE map.

Skiba's, and my remaining reservations center around the map of the southern hemisphere. There apparently are direct flights between Sydney and Santiago, Chile, taking between 11.5 and 14.5 hours. On the usual FE maps you see the distance between them is too far to be flown in that time. You'd need Australia and South America to be a little bit closer. Some online have shown revised maps where this would work, and one guy made the flight with his compass, which always pointed northwest, as a flat earth map would suggest. All FEers agree that an obviously correct map has never been put forward, and the one you usually see is simply a reproduction of the UN logo.

Meanwhile, in the world of astrophysics settled science, a new black hole has been discovered that is 13.1 billion light years away from earth. It's all right there in that sky you see, plain as day (to the cognoscenti). You have simply but to believe with a childlike faith.

[Adama]

Meanwhile, in the world of astrophysics settled science, a new black hole has been discovered that is 13.1 billion light years away from earth. It's all right there in that sky you see, plain as day (to the cognoscenti). You have simply but to believe with a childlike faith.

Don't forget that mysterious dark matter, which is lurking out there, increasing the mass of the universe and slowing it down!

[OutWest]

What is unclear about Article VII, section 1 of the Antarctica treaty? You have to get permission of the United States or the government of whichever signatory nation you are a citizen of if you want to go there, for employment or any other purpose. Try getting that permission for unbridled exploration.

Can you give me a quote" Article VII, section one is talking about observers beng put in place to oversee treaty compliance.

"Article VII

1. In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment. "

[gsjackson]

What is unclear about Article VII, section 1 of the Antarctica treaty? You have to get permission of the United States or the government of whichever signatory nation you are a citizen of if you want to go there, for employment or any other purpose. Try getting that permission for unbridled exploration.

Can you give me a quote" Article VII, section one is talking about observers beng put in place to oversee treaty compliance.

"Article VII

1. In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment. "

Standard statutory construction -- if the state is given the prerogative to designate observers, it is implied that those not so designated do not have that right. And that is in fact the case in Antarctica.

[OutWest]

What is unclear about Article VII, section 1 of the Antarctica treaty? You have to get permission of the United States or the government of whichever signatory nation you are a citizen of if you want to go there, for employment or any other purpose. Try getting that permission for unbridled exploration.

Can you give me a quote" Article VII, section one is talking about observers beng put in place to oversee treaty compliance.

"Article VII

1. In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment. "

Standard statutory construction -- if the state is given the prerogative to designate observers, it is implied that those not so designated do not have that right. And that is in fact the case in Antarctica.

Because you cannot be named an official Antarctic Treaty compliance observer, it means you can not go to Antarctic at all? That is an amazing stretch! Thousands of people a year go to the Antarctic a year that are certainly not treaty compliance observing officials...tourists, various scientific groups, environmental groups and extreme sports addicts.

[gsjackson]

What is unclear about Article VII, section 1 of the Antarctica treaty? You have to get permission of the United States or the government of whichever signatory nation you are a citizen of if you want to go there, for employment or any other purpose. Try getting that permission for unbridled exploration.

Can you give me a quote" Article VII, section one is talking about observers beng put in place to oversee treaty compliance.

"Article VII

1. In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment. "

Standard statutory construction -- if the state is given the prerogative to designate observers, it is implied that those not so designated do not have that right. And that is in fact the case in Antarctica.

Because you cannot be named an official Antarctic Treaty compliance observer, it means you can not go to Antarctic at all? That is an amazing stretch! Thousands of people a year go to the Antarctic a year that are certainly not treaty compliance observing officials...tourists, various scientific groups, environmental groups and extreme sports addicts.

Oh come on. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. No one -- whether someone going on one of the pre-arranged tours, being employed there, going as a scientific observer, etc. -- goes there without the approval of the government of which he is a citizen. "Compliance observer" is your language. It is not in the treaty. If you go to Antarctica to explore it, you will need the approval of the U.S. government. Period.

[OutWest]

What is unclear about Article VII, section 1 of the Antarctica treaty? You have to get permission of the United States or the government of whichever signatory nation you are a citizen of if you want to go there, for employment or any other purpose. Try getting that permission for unbridled exploration.

Can you give me a quote" Article VII, section one is talking about observers beng put in place to oversee treaty compliance.

"Article VII

1. In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment. "

Standard statutory construction -- if the state is given the prerogative to designate observers, it is implied that those not so designated do not have that right. And that is in fact the case in Antarctica.

Because you cannot be named an official Antarctic Treaty compliance observer, it means you can not go to Antarctic at all? That is an amazing stretch! Thousands of people a year go to the Antarctic a year that are certainly not treaty compliance observing officials...tourists, various scientific groups, environmental groups and extreme sports addicts.

Oh come on. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. No one -- whether someone going on one of the pre-arranged tours, being employed there, going as a scientific observer, etc. -- goes there without the approval of the government of which he is a citizen. "Compliance observer" is your language. It is not in the treaty. If you go to Antarctica to explore it, you will need the approval of the U.S. government. Period.

"In order to promote the objectives and ensure the observance of the provisions of the present treaty, each Contracting Party whose representatives are entitled to participate in the meetings referred to in Article IX of the treaty shall have the right to designate observers to carry out any inspection provided for by the present Article. Observers shall be nationals of the Contracting Parties which designate them. The names of observers shall be communicated to every other Contracting Party having the right to designate observers, and like notice shall be given of the termination of their appointment."


In this paragraph is clearly states that signatory countries have the right to appoint observers to conduct inspections as defined in the treaty in order to ensure the observance of provisions of the treaty. If "ensuring the observations of the provisions of the treaty" is not about compliance, you command of the language is suspect. Im quoting from the treaty. Tell me, seriously, that "Ensuring the observations of the provisions of the treaty" is not about COMPLIANCE. You are losing it. And no, everyone who goes to Antarctica is not an appointed treaty observer.
All this, just about your imaginary 100,000 mile long ice wall and a host of other crazy shit. Documenting such would be the story of the century, but flat earthers can't seem to find anything south of the equator because they are following the delusional maps. It is simple geometry. Southern hemisphere navigation would be so far off that all transport calculations based on the globe would be drastically off if the flat earth were a fact. Airplanes could not even carry enough fuel for what are now already long trips. Ships and airplanes would run out of fuel. Many millions of square miles of land would be created in Africa, Australia and South America. Just imagine a flat earth country of Chile...a 100 miles wide at the north and a thousand miles wide at the south. It would be shaped like a pyramid.Apparently tens of thousands of people turned away from visiting the Antarctic, you just cant find any of these people.

[gsjackson]

One of the first things you would learn in law school is to read a statute by looking at "the four corners of the document." That means you read all of it, and construe it in that context. Read sections 2, 3, 4 and 5 of Article VII, and tell me these people are designated only as a sort of compliance police, or whatever the hell you're arguing. The people so designated in Article VII are the ones who get to explore Antarctica, and they are the only ones.

The circumference of the earth is estimated by FEers to be somewhere around 50,000+ miles, which corresponds with Capt. Cook's diary about attempting to sail around it, including sailing from England. Not 100,000, as you say. You're just making shit up.

[OutWest]

One of the first things you would learn in law school is to read a statute by looking at "the four corners of the document." That means you read all of it, and construe it in that context. Read sections 2, 3, 4 and 5 of Article VII, and tell me these people are designated only as a sort of compliance police, or whatever the hell you're arguing. The people so designated in Article VII are the ones who get to explore Antarctica, and they are the only ones.

The circumference of the earth is estimated by FEers to be somewhere around 50,000+ miles, which corresponds with Capt. Cook's diary about attempting to sail around it, including sailing from England. Not 100,000, as you say. You're just making shit up.

Hilarious to hear a flat earther talk about making shit up! I double checked, The navigationally useless flat earth fabricated maps tend to depict an Antarctic circumference of 60,000 to 78,000 miles. Tens of thousands of people visit Antarctica every year just from Argentina, New Zealand and Antarctica. No permission from the USA required. More would be coming from those places but they are busy exploring the millions if square miles of additional land that flat earthers created out of thin air. ..making shit up?
A flat earth map should be much easier to create than a globe map...

[gsjackson]

Obviously you didn't read the statute with any care. Argentinians would be required to get permission from their government, New Zealanders from theirs, not the U.S.

Feel free to cite the sources for the thousands of visitors from Argentina, New Zealand and Antarctica (sic), and the scope of their visits.

According to Eric Dubay, probably the most prominent FEer, the circumference of the earth is 50,000 miles and some. But as I said, there is no settled flat earth map.

[HouseMD]

Aside from the relative ease by which one can visit, you can also easily get jobs in Antarctica, as few people want to work there and they are always hiring for everything from janitors to bartenders at the research bases.

How would being a bartender at a research base allow you to test the theory of whether it was the end of the earth?

You'd be in the mythical place they say you can't go. You'd see basically most of what went in there. You could ask about ongoing research, etc. And you'd get to take in the whole journey there.

[Winston]

Have you guys noticed that those "actors" (if they are) on the ISS do not look like high calibre or high quality people? They look kind of goofy and not serious. Like goofballs or hillbillies, the kind of people who will do anything for money. Do you get that feeling from them too? It's as if the ISS has low criteria or low qualifications on who they will accept as a crew member. It's as if the screening process was simply:

Q: Are you willing to participate in a hoax if we pay you? And will you keep it a secret for life under penalty of death and the death of your loved ones?
A: Yeah sure. Why not? Sounds like a good deal! Let's do it!
Q: Ok we will prepare the contracts for you to sign. You will then be briefed further.

If so, then NASA would not try to recruit anyone to be an ISS crew member. Certainly not someone like Adama that gripes about truth and morals and God. They would look at the background of the applicant and pick people who have a history of lying for money and showing no conscience about it. Right?

A man who views things with the simplicity of a tubby alcoholic Chinese farmer that looks the part saying that the PhDs riding on the ISS seem like hillbillies is the most ironic thing I've come across in months. Astronauts are specifically selected to be charismatic ambassadors of science, in addition to having research-level credentials in the sciences and personalities that can handle the isolation of space.

Well then you must be blind, deaf and dumb, or dishonest as well. Most of the Apollo astronauts are bland and lifeless and have no personality or charisma at all. Everyone knows that. Have you seen Neil Armstrong? He was uncomfortable on camera and didn't like to be interviewed and shied away from it. The only astronaut who likes all the publicity is Buzz Aldrin. None of the people on the ISS have any charisma. Do you even know what charisma is? Do you watch good movies? If so you should have an idea. Actors have good charisma yes, such as Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt. But not these ISS bozos. Are you dumber than I thought? No one who has met me considers me to be a hillbilly. You are simply trying to discredit me using dishonest tactics.