The Insecurity of the Western Male and the Patriarchy

[thom]

as an american who lived in saudi arabia for 8 years i wouldn't place any credence to anything an arab male says about relationships with women. in saudi arabia women are basically owned. kept on a leash like a dog except dogs there run free. they can't drive, mix with men socially, travel alone etc. basic human freedoms are not extended to women. most families have maids from india, sri lanka, philppines and thousands are abused and raped by the arab man. and these guys are never brought to justice. justice, for women? that's a joke over there. many married saudi's also enjoyed the fleshpots of bangkok and manila. i saw them there every time i went but at least i've never married. believe me, they felt no guilt at all. the biggest hypocrites i've ever met.

only incredibly insecure and immature men would have a need to treat women like this.

now i know other arab countries aren't as bad as the savages in saudi arabia but the repression and subjugation is still there even if of a slightly lessor degree.

oh, and because they don't allow mixing of the sexes homosexuality is rampant even though condemned by their religion. like i said, hypocrites.

so holding up their views as something to be emulated is a joke.

fact is the female dominated west and the male dominated middle east are both dysfunctional. real love (not romantic) and respect of each other is what's required.

[zboy1]

You can thank the decline of Western Civilization on the Zionist Jews that occupy American and European governments and also run Hollywood and the Banks. I'm not talking about all Jews, there are anti-Zionist Jews all over the world. But the hardcore anti-Western, anti-white, anti-Muslim and anti-Christian Jews are a great danger to the world.

[Truthville]

Good see that some people, even if they are "trolls", or whatever, are shedding some light and giving a different view of "the males's paradise" written by the Arab.

NEVER! NEVER! NEVER would I wish to live in such a society IF I wasn't part of the ruling "cliche" like the House of Saud in Saudi Arabia.

You know WANT to know another type of society, that we have in the USA, that is comparable to this "male paradise?"

PRISON!

Once again, google "The Dancing Boys of Afghanastan" or "Bacha bazi" to see what some "male-dominated Arab cultures" are like. I suspect, though I haven't researched it, that this practice MIGHT also be present in other Arab countries. I could be wrong BUT I also think that due to the rigid dating "rules" in such countries, that homosexuality is more prevelant than even in the "decadent" west.

TruthVille

[The Arab]

as an american who lived in saudi arabia for 8 years i wouldn't place any credence to anything an arab male says about relationships with women. in saudi arabia women are basically owned. kept on a leash like a dog except dogs there run free. they can't drive, mix with men socially, travel alone etc. basic human freedoms are not extended to women. most families have maids from india, sri lanka, philppines and thousands are abused and raped by the arab man. and these guys are never brought to justice. justice, for women? that's a joke over there. many married saudi's also enjoyed the fleshpots of bangkok and manila. i saw them there every time i went but at least i've never married. believe me, they felt no guilt at all. the biggest hypocrites i've ever met.

only incredibly insecure and immature men would have a need to treat women like this.

now i know other arab countries aren't as bad as the savages in saudi arabia but the repression and subjugation is still there even if of a slightly lessor degree.

oh, and because they don't allow mixing of the sexes homosexuality is rampant even though condemned by their religion. like i said, hypocrites.

so holding up their views as something to be emulated is a joke.

fact is the female dominated west and the male dominated middle east are both dysfunctional. real love (not romantic) and respect of each other is what's required.

lol at Saudi Arabia .. a fundamentalist Wahhabi state. That would be like using die-hard Amish to typify the average American.

It seems you are confusing my defense of Patriarchy and confusing it with tradition, both pre-Islamic and Islamic -- Arab culture has always been patriarchal, and i am not advocating an "Islamic" lifestyle for anyone, because truth be told, very few in the Arab world really live a religious lifestyle.

From my observations and experience, in most Arab countries the youth are obsessed with sex and in every university, every girl is sucking dick and taking it in the ass.(Excuse my French) Mass orgies go on in secret and is far more sexual than in the U.S.

It's certainly nothing like that in the U.S. All I see are isolated people - individuals, a guy and his girlfriend. You do not see "personality" and presence; I am not sure what the problem is but people are robotic and bland. It seems the only way people can be social is when they have the assistance of alcohol .. why is this ? Where is the natural social skills and vivaciousness and liveliness ? It seems more "alive" somehow in the Arab world, with larger groups of people hanging around, good natured banter, all sans alcohol.

Basically, everything many of you note about the atmosphere in places such as Russia/Eastern Europe/Asia, is the same in my experience in the Arab world. Girls don't have a bitch shield, they openly flirt and have a natural relaxed air about them, and they do what their man wants.

However, as a foreigner in the Arab world I think it would be more difficult. I'd recommend other places, like Eastern Europe - especially Croatia and Romania.

U.S. society is fractured and unnatural.

Patriarchy isn't an "Arab View" - similar male dominated culture, to varying degrees, is present in most of the world - in Russia, Japan, Latin America, all over the world. It is the West, beginning with the most Feminized, the U.S., and it's cultural kin- the U.K, Canada, Australia, and to varying degrees Western Europe.

i never advocated violence against women; I simply state reality as I see it and observe it.In a society where catcalls and flirting with women is easy, natural, and widespread, men develop more confidence and poise; while men in feminist societies are wracked with indecisiveness and low self esteem,a result of cold, bitchy women that act like they are queens and treat men as worthless.

It is not only feminism - it is also a culture of isolation, hyper-individism, excess materialism, and superficiality.

If the West is so open and the relations between men and women so harmonious; why the horrid divorce rate, the difficulty in meeting women, the fragmented society, the insecurity ?

Is that something to be proud of, an entire civilization with no community ? There is widespread homosexuality in the West, even without segregation of men and women .. why is that ?

It is Anglo-Saxon civilization which has sown the seeds of it's own decay and infected itself with rampant feminism and irreversible destruction of family, morality, and society.

I have travelled the world and been to 38 countries in 6 continents.

[The Arab]

Dear Arab Man
I am anAmerican woman, living in Kuwait. I have read your 'damning' observations of American society and your views of American women and men. It made me laugh at its wild claims of the superior Arab male manner of treating women. There are those who post replies to your article who have no idea of the reality of life in the Gulf for the women, the slaves employed here and the infantile atittudes of the 'male patriarchy' society in Kuwait.

Hello Liz ,

It is very common for expat women in Dubai to have young Arab lovers service them almost daily while their husbands work. In fact by some estimates over half of births to expat mothers in Dubai, the father is actually Arab.

i'm talking about secular normal Arab countries - Morocco, Tunisia, , Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Dubai, Bahrain, Qatar

[Mr S]

This is one of the problems with the Islamic cultures, they tend to get too extreme and make it very difficult to date women so they end up f***ing boys and getting into Homosexuality. I was in the middle east for a bit when in the Navy and I found it rather disturbing how Arab guys would stare at me and my friends and sometimes follow us around in malls, or try to talk to us and make sexual type innuendoes. I was in my early 20's and looked much younger for my age so they probably thought I might be a good boy toy or something.

I don't like the direction the West is heading but I also don't like the Muslim viewpoint of Patriarchy, it's too one sided and extreme. I think the best version would be from how Western Men treated Women from the 1700's to before women's suffrage. I think that period of time both men and women knew their places and they could both participate in courtship as well as fooling around and you could also know whether the girl you were interested in was attractive or not. These women from the Middle East and Islamic countries all cover themselves up and aren't allowed to look attractive for the most part in public. Thus most of them don't have to maintain their bodies so they seem to be fat slobs once their metabolism starts slowing down in their 20's and then become very physically unappealing. Even in the Philippines there are some Arab girly bars and all the women are fatty's and gross looking in my opinion, but the Arab guys love that look for some reason. I don't get it. I was in India last year and they have a strong Patriarchy and man I would say 99% of the women I saw were butt ugly and the few younger ones that might have had a chance of being decent looking were all wrapped up in their sari's and whatnot so it was hard to tell what kind of body they really had. Just being able to see a face peeking out of a piece of cloth doesn't really do anything for me.

Basically, if women can just cover up their bodies they get lazy and stop worrying about what other people think of them physically. Kinda like the mentality of when a women is in a long term relationship or married, many let themselves go in the looks department and only when they are single again do they try to lose weight and look like women. Until they find their next victim...

If these Muslim women and men are all having orgies and what not in their countries it's because they are sexually repressed and their culture isn't allowing them to let out their sexual desires in the open. America is kinda like that but in a different way. I want a balanced culture, not one extreme or the other. Mutual respect and transparency. I don't want to be culturally forced to be a part-time homo because of the limited access to dating and getting into a relationship with women. I don't want to jump through rigid cultural hoops and have to pay dowries and get the parents permission or arrange marriages when still a toddler. That shit should not be going on anymore in this modern age of globalism, there is no need for it. The only reason is because human nature fights change and will always keep supporting tradition until there is some outside influence that forces change and is incompatible with past traditions.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=250677

Again! U.S. contractor tied to child sex trade
DynCorp accused of hiring 17-year-old boy for 'bacha bazi'
Posted: January 13, 2011
2:08 pm Eastern

© 2011 WorldNetDaily
Editor's Note: The following report is excerpted from Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin, the premium online newsletter published by the founder of WND. Subscriptions are $99 a year or, for monthly trials, just $9.95 per month for credit card users, and provide instant access for the complete reports.


A U.S. defense contractor has been caught – again – in a child sex scandal, this time over bacha bazi – the Afghan cultural tradition of "boy play" – after employees allegedly hired young boys to dress up in women's clothing and dance and potentially to be sold for sex, according to a report from Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

DynCorp, a U.S. government contractor that trains Afghan security police, allegedly hired a 17-year-old boy for entertainment at what DynCorp describes as a "going-away party" in Kunduz Province, even though bacha bazi is against Afghan law.

In the practice of bacha bazi, boys ages 9-17 are dressed up as women to dance for leering Afghan men who then use the boys for sex and make them their property. Sources say that the dancing boys are, in effect, sex slaves owned by Afghan police, diplomats and wealthy drug lords.

"They are dressed in women's clothes, they wear bells, they dance and they are rented and sold to the highest bidder," according to one Afghan. "They are often sodomized by many men in a single night, sometimes resulting in [the] death of the child."

The U.S. State Department has called the Afghan practice of owning "dancing boys" a "culturally sanctioned form of male rape."

(Story continues below)







According to a regional expert, bacha bazi is a "perverse interpretation" of Islamic law, since Afghan women are unapproachable.

"Afghan men cannot talk to an unrelated woman until after proposing marriage, and then they can't even look at a woman, except perhaps her feet," the expert said.

"How can you fall in love if you can't see her face," one 29-year-old Afghan man asked. "We can see the boys, so we can tell which are beautiful."

A recently leaked U.S. State Department cable from Afghanistan raised concerns that DynCorp allegedly had participated in paying for young "dancing boys" and that drugs also may have been involved in such activity.

This revelation has led to allegations that U.S. taxpayer money may have been used by a U.S. defense contractor for illicit sex in an effort to influence local leaders.

The leaked cable said then–Minister of Interior Hanif Atmar was concerned that a story would be published that would endanger lives.

"On the Kunduz Regional Training Center DynCorp event of April 11 (reftel), Atmar reiterated his insistence that the U.S. try to quash any news article on the incident or circulation of a video connected with it," according to the cable, which was signed by U.S. Ambassador Karl Eikenberry.

DynCorp gets about 96 percent of its $2 billion in revenues from federal contracts. The company has provided much of the security for Afghan President Hamid Karzai's presidential guard and trains much of Afghanistan's and Iraq's police force.

In response to a G2Bulletin inquiry for a response, DynCorp's vice president for communications, Ashley Vandarsdall Burke, said the Kunduz episode was an isolated event and admitted that "a handful of individuals were found to have exercised extremely poor judgment and acted inappropriately."

Burke said that the event was an employee's going-away party, and a 17-year-old local Afghan dancer was hired to perform a traditional Afghan dance. She said that a site manager of the company halted the performance, recognizing that the "situation" was "culturally insensitive."

The Kunduz episode isn't DynCorp's first brush with the sex-slave world.

In 1999 in Bosnia, a U.S. policewoman who worked for DynCorp was fired after telling of an alleged sex-slave ring operating on one of the bases there. The U.S. policewoman, Kathryn Bolkovac, settled a lawsuit. Her story recently was featured in the film "The Whistleblower."

Bolkovac's case followed a similar episode in which another employee, Ben Johnston, blew the whistle on DynCorp employees and supervisors for allegedly engaging in sex with 12- to 15-year-old children and selling them to each other as slaves.



Read more: Again! U.S. contractor tied to child sex trade http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=250677#ixzz1BCrKlEhP

[rome86]

well no matter how screwed up the arab society is, the arab man is more masculine than the western man.It is the same thing in latin america, asia, africa.. women there are not as mistreated as the ones in the middle east, but the men keep their masculinity. That is why their women are better.
Western men keep your women in check, do not be afraid to order them around.stop with the romantic nonsense.

[Mr S]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MA11Df03.html

Sodomy and Sufism in Afgaynistan
By Spengler

Social scientists attached to the Second Marine Battalion in Afghanistan last year circulated a startling report on Pashtun sociology, in the form of a human terrain report on male sexuality among America's Afghan allies. The document, made available by military sources, is not classified, just disturbing. Don't ask, don't tell doesn't begin to qualify the problem. These are things you didn't want to know, and regret having heard. The marines got their money's worth from their Human Terrain adjuncts, but the report might have considered whether male pedophilia in Afghanistan has a religious dimension as well as a cultural one. I will explain why below.

Most Pashtun men, Human Terrain Team AF-6 reports, engage in sex with men - boys - in fact, the vast majority of their sexual contacts are with males. "A culturally-contrived homosexuality [significantly not termed as such by its practitioners] appears to affect a far greater population base then some researchers would argue is attributable to natural inclination. Some of its root causes lie in the severe segregation of women, the prohibitive cost of marriage within Pashtun tribal codes, and the depressed economic situation into which young Pashtun men are placed."

The human terrain team responded to scandalous interactions between Pashtun fighters and North Atlantic Treaty Organization troops, some reported with hilarity by the media. An article in the Scotsman of May 24, 2002, reported, for example: "In Bagram, British marines returning from an operation deep in the Afghan mountains spoke last night of an alarming new threat – being propositioned by swarms of gay local farmers. An Arbroath marine, James Fletcher, said: 'They were more terrifying than the al-Qaeda. One bloke who had painted toenails was offering to paint ours. They go about hand in hand, mincing around the village.' While the marines failed to find any al-Qaeda during the seven-day Operation Condor, they were propositioned by dozens of men in villages the troops were ordered to search."

Another interviewee in the article, a marine in his 20s, stated, "It was hell. Every village we went into we got a group of men wearing makeup coming up, stroking our hair and cheeks and making kissing noises."

The trouble, the researchers surmise, is "Pashtun society's extremely limited access to women," citing a Los Angeles Times interview with a young Pashtun identified as Daud. He only has sex with men, explaining: "I like boys, but I like girls better. It's just that we can't see the women to see if they are beautiful. But we can see the boys, and so we can tell which of them is beautiful."

Many of the Pashtuns interviewed allow "that homosexuality is indeed prohibited within Islam, warranting great shame and condemnation. However, homosexuality is then narrowly and specifically defined as the love of another man. Loving a man would therefore be unacceptable and a major sin within this cultural interpretation of Islam, but using another man for sexual gratification would be regarded as a foible -undesirable but far preferable to sex with a ineligible woman, which in the context of Pashtun honor, would likely result in issues of revenge and honor killings."

How prevalent are homosexual relations among Pashtuns? The researchers note that "medics treated an outbreak of gonorrhea among the local national interpreters on their camp. Approximately 12 of the nearly 20 young male interpreters present in the camp had contracted the disease, and most had done so anally. This is a merely anecdotal observation and far too small of a sample size to make any generalizations regarding the actual prevalence of homosexual activity region-wide. However, given the difficulty in procuring such data, it may serve as some indicator."

Through Khaled Hosseini's 2003 novel The Kite Runner, Western audiences caught a glimpse of what the military team calls "an openly celebrated cultural tradition. Kandahar's long artistic and poetic tradition idolizes the pre-pubescent ‘beardless boy’ as the icon of physical beauty. Further, even the newly re-emerging musical nightlife of southern Afghan cities idolizes pre-pubescent boy performers, whose star status lasts only as long as their voices remain immature."

"Kandahar's Pashtuns have been notorious for their homosexuality for centuries, particularly their fondness for naive young boys. Before the Taliban arrived in 1994, the streets were filled with teenagers and their sugar daddies, flaunting their relationship. It is called the homosexual capital of South Asia. Such is the Pashtun obsession with sodomy - locals tell you that birds fly over the city using only one wing, the other covering their posterior - that the rape of young boys by warlords was one of the key factors in Mullah Omar mobilizing the Taliban," the report adds.

Although the Taliban discouraged open display, it "should not be viewed as free of the culture and tradition of homosexuality of the Pashtun world of which it is a part" the authors add.

"Men who take on a halekon [young male lover] often attempt to integrate the boy into their families by marrying him to a daughter when the boy is no longer young enough to play the 'beardless' role. This maintains the love relationship between the father and son-in-law which inevitably makes difficult the establishment of a normal relationship with the wife," the human terrain Team explains.

The team's results are striking, but they place too much emphasis on the weirdness of Pashtun tradition and give too little attention to the broader role of homosexuality in Islamic (and especially Sufi) culture. What scholars now consider the Golden Age of Islamic love poetry, the Persian high middle ages, made homosexual pederasty the normative mode of love. While Petrarch wrote sonnets to Laura and Dante longed for Beatrice, their counterparts in the canon of Islamic poetry, Hafez and Rumi, wrote of their infatuation with young boys.

Afghanistan's own Sufi poet was the 17th-century bard Abdul Rahman Baba, of whom little is known except that he is said to have eloped with a young boy named Mujnoon. He is generally portrayed as a premature flower-child dedicated to peace and love; that must be what the Taliban thought as well, for they placed a bomb in his tomb in March 2009. According to the limited available criticism of Rahman's work, his Pashto poems are closely related to the Persian style of Rumi.

The prevalence of homosexual pedophilia in classical Islamic poetry, Persian as well as Pashto, suggests that the human terrain team may have missed an important dimension, namely the religious. In a study entitled Sufism, Sodomy and Satan published in this space August 12, 2008, I argued:
Sufi pedophilia cannot be dismissed as a remnant of the old tribal practices that Islam often incorporated, for example, female genital mutilation. Genital mutilation is a pre-Islamic practice unknown in the ancient and modern West. Even though some Muslim authorities defend it on the basis of Hadith, no one has ever claimed that it offered a path to enlightenment. Sadly, pedophiles are found almost everywhere. In its ascendancy, Sufism made a definitive spiritual experience out of a practice considered criminally aberrant in the West. But pederasty as a spiritual exercise is not essentially different in character from the furtive practices of Western perverts. As the psychiatrists explain, pederasty is an expression of narcissism, the love of an idealized youthful self-image.

All forms of contemplative mysticism involve the danger that the object of adoration into which one dissolves might turn out to be one's self. It sounds well and good to seek God in the all, that is, no place in particular. The trouble is that if one tries to dissolve one's self into the all, one's self becomes part of the all. The lover cannot distinguish himself from the all. The self and the all are the same, and one loves one's self. There is no other in Sufism, only your own ego staring back in the carnival mirror of mysticism. The adept does not worship a God who is wholly other - YHWH of the Hebrew Bible or Jesus of the Gospels - but a younger and prettier version of himself. In that respect, pedophilia in Afghanistan may have a distinctly religious motivation.

Spengler is channeled by David P Goldman, Senior Editor at First Things magazine.

[The Arab]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MA11Df03.html

Sodomy and Sufism in Afgaynistan
By Spengler

Social scientists attached to the Second Marine Battalion in Afghanistan last year circulated a startling report on Pashtun sociology, in the form of a human terrain report on male sexuality among America's Afghan allies. The document, made available by military sources, is not classified, just disturbing. Don't ask, don't tell doesn't begin to qualify the problem. These are things you didn't want to know, and regret having heard. The marines got their money's worth from their Human Terrain adjuncts, but the report might have considered whether male pedophilia in Afghanistan has a religious dimension as well as a cultural one. I will explain why below.

Most Pashtun men, Human Terrain Team AF-6 reports, engage in sex with men - boys - in fact, the vast majority of their sexual contacts are with males. "A culturally-contrived homosexuality [significantly not termed as such by its practitioners] appears to affect a far greater population base then some researchers would argue is attributable to natural inclination. Some of its root causes lie in the severe segregation of women, the prohibitive cost of marriage within Pashtun tribal codes, and the depressed economic situation into which young Pashtun men are placed."

The human terrain team responded to scandalous interactions between Pashtun fighters and North Atlantic Treaty Organization troops, some reported with hilarity by the media. An article in the Scotsman of May 24, 2002, reported, for example: "In Bagram, British marines returning from an operation deep in the Afghan mountains spoke last night of an alarming new threat – being propositioned by swarms of gay local farmers. An Arbroath marine, James Fletcher, said: 'They were more terrifying than the al-Qaeda. One bloke who had painted toenails was offering to paint ours. They go about hand in hand, mincing around the village.' While the marines failed to find any al-Qaeda during the seven-day Operation Condor, they were propositioned by dozens of men in villages the troops were ordered to search."

Another interviewee in the article, a marine in his 20s, stated, "It was hell. Every village we went into we got a group of men wearing makeup coming up, stroking our hair and cheeks and making kissing noises."

The trouble, the researchers surmise, is "Pashtun society's extremely limited access to women," citing a Los Angeles Times interview with a young Pashtun identified as Daud. He only has sex with men, explaining: "I like boys, but I like girls better. It's just that we can't see the women to see if they are beautiful. But we can see the boys, and so we can tell which of them is beautiful."

Many of the Pashtuns interviewed allow "that homosexuality is indeed prohibited within Islam, warranting great shame and condemnation. However, homosexuality is then narrowly and specifically defined as the love of another man. Loving a man would therefore be unacceptable and a major sin within this cultural interpretation of Islam, but using another man for sexual gratification would be regarded as a foible -undesirable but far preferable to sex with a ineligible woman, which in the context of Pashtun honor, would likely result in issues of revenge and honor killings."

How prevalent are homosexual relations among Pashtuns? The researchers note that "medics treated an outbreak of gonorrhea among the local national interpreters on their camp. Approximately 12 of the nearly 20 young male interpreters present in the camp had contracted the disease, and most had done so anally. This is a merely anecdotal observation and far too small of a sample size to make any generalizations regarding the actual prevalence of homosexual activity region-wide. However, given the difficulty in procuring such data, it may serve as some indicator."

Through Khaled Hosseini's 2003 novel The Kite Runner, Western audiences caught a glimpse of what the military team calls "an openly celebrated cultural tradition. Kandahar's long artistic and poetic tradition idolizes the pre-pubescent ‘beardless boy’ as the icon of physical beauty. Further, even the newly re-emerging musical nightlife of southern Afghan cities idolizes pre-pubescent boy performers, whose star status lasts only as long as their voices remain immature."

"Kandahar's Pashtuns have been notorious for their homosexuality for centuries, particularly their fondness for naive young boys. Before the Taliban arrived in 1994, the streets were filled with teenagers and their sugar daddies, flaunting their relationship. It is called the homosexual capital of South Asia. Such is the Pashtun obsession with sodomy - locals tell you that birds fly over the city using only one wing, the other covering their posterior - that the rape of young boys by warlords was one of the key factors in Mullah Omar mobilizing the Taliban," the report adds.

Although the Taliban discouraged open display, it "should not be viewed as free of the culture and tradition of homosexuality of the Pashtun world of which it is a part" the authors add.

"Men who take on a halekon [young male lover] often attempt to integrate the boy into their families by marrying him to a daughter when the boy is no longer young enough to play the 'beardless' role. This maintains the love relationship between the father and son-in-law which inevitably makes difficult the establishment of a normal relationship with the wife," the human terrain Team explains.

The team's results are striking, but they place too much emphasis on the weirdness of Pashtun tradition and give too little attention to the broader role of homosexuality in Islamic (and especially Sufi) culture. What scholars now consider the Golden Age of Islamic love poetry, the Persian high middle ages, made homosexual pederasty the normative mode of love. While Petrarch wrote sonnets to Laura and Dante longed for Beatrice, their counterparts in the canon of Islamic poetry, Hafez and Rumi, wrote of their infatuation with young boys.

Afghanistan's own Sufi poet was the 17th-century bard Abdul Rahman Baba, of whom little is known except that he is said to have eloped with a young boy named Mujnoon. He is generally portrayed as a premature flower-child dedicated to peace and love; that must be what the Taliban thought as well, for they placed a bomb in his tomb in March 2009. According to the limited available criticism of Rahman's work, his Pashto poems are closely related to the Persian style of Rumi.

The prevalence of homosexual pedophilia in classical Islamic poetry, Persian as well as Pashto, suggests that the human terrain team may have missed an important dimension, namely the religious. In a study entitled Sufism, Sodomy and Satan published in this space August 12, 2008, I argued:
Sufi pedophilia cannot be dismissed as a remnant of the old tribal practices that Islam often incorporated, for example, female genital mutilation. Genital mutilation is a pre-Islamic practice unknown in the ancient and modern West. Even though some Muslim authorities defend it on the basis of Hadith, no one has ever claimed that it offered a path to enlightenment. Sadly, pedophiles are found almost everywhere. In its ascendancy, Sufism made a definitive spiritual experience out of a practice considered criminally aberrant in the West. But pederasty as a spiritual exercise is not essentially different in character from the furtive practices of Western perverts. As the psychiatrists explain, pederasty is an expression of narcissism, the love of an idealized youthful self-image.

All forms of contemplative mysticism involve the danger that the object of adoration into which one dissolves might turn out to be one's self. It sounds well and good to seek God in the all, that is, no place in particular. The trouble is that if one tries to dissolve one's self into the all, one's self becomes part of the all. The lover cannot distinguish himself from the all. The self and the all are the same, and one loves one's self. There is no other in Sufism, only your own ego staring back in the carnival mirror of mysticism. The adept does not worship a God who is wholly other - YHWH of the Hebrew Bible or Jesus of the Gospels - but a younger and prettier version of himself. In that respect, pedophilia in Afghanistan may have a distinctly religious motivation.

Spengler is channeled by David P Goldman, Senior Editor at First Things magazine.

Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam .. what exactly is the point of this post ? i actually took the time to read that post and had a smirk by the time I got to the end ... clearly an agenda-driven article and made clear in many nuances throughout.

Perhaps i have been trained to critically read and analyze any information I read, while the herds of lemmings lap up whatever they can find, in painful ignorance .

Pederasty, pedophilia and homosexuality has always been present in many places and cultures - especially the West, starting with boy-love and institutionalized pederasty in ancient Greece, to the Romans, to Medieval Europe and continuing to the present, with the explosion in internet pedophilia, created and sustained by Western men.

I am beginning to doubt your intelligence .. clearly you are not the brightest bulb in the shed.

whether this is due to genetics or ignorance is open to debate ... you are rather sheep-like friend.

also, why am I not surprised that article was written by your typical rabid Zionist ... lol, Goldberg, gosh !

[globetrotter]

well no matter how screwed up the arab society is, the arab man is more masculine than the western man.It is the same thing in latin america, asia, africa.. women there are not as mistreated as the ones in the middle east, but the men keep their masculinity. That is why their women are better.
Western men keep your women in check, do not be afraid to order them around.stop with the romantic nonsense.

You cannot do this.

It is now against the law in the USA, Canada and other countries.

Really.

[globetrotter]

Pederasty, pedophilia and homosexuality has always been present in many places and cultures - especially the West, starting with boy-love and institutionalized pederasty in ancient Greece, to the Romans, to Medieval Europe and continuing to the present, with the explosion in internet pedophilia, created and sustained by Western men.

I am beginning to doubt your intelligence .. clearly you are not the brightest bulb in the shed.

whether this is due to genetics or ignorance is open to debate ... you are rather sheep-like friend.!

However the prophets of Christianity, Judaism and Buddhism did not marry 9 year old girls.

Mohammed did.

There is a massive difference between what goes on in a culture and may be condemned, and its religion installing the same value as a theological standard.

[The Arab]

Pederasty, pedophilia and homosexuality has always been present in many places and cultures - especially the West, starting with boy-love and institutionalized pederasty in ancient Greece, to the Romans, to Medieval Europe and continuing to the present, with the explosion in internet pedophilia, created and sustained by Western men.

I am beginning to doubt your intelligence .. clearly you are not the brightest bulb in the shed.

whether this is due to genetics or ignorance is open to debate ... you are rather sheep-like friend.!

However the prophets of Christianity, Judaism and Buddhism did not marry 9 year old girls.

Mohammed did.

There is a massive difference between what goes on in a culture and may be condemned, and its religion installing the same value as a theological standard.

Another ignoramus ..... woe woe woe ! You are talking to someone who has a fine grasp of history here, REAL history.Am I talking to some right-wing Islamophobic hillbilly here watching Fox News, and spouting the same smear campaign snippets you cull from brainwashing programs on TV and the internet ?You folks are incredibly brainwashed and for lack of a better word, dumb.

It is sad the internet is chock full of ignorant, uneducated people. Allow me to EDUCATE your inebriated mind, sir.. First, you are comparing the social mores and times of hundreds of years ago to our own, when life was vastly different. Among all peoples, marriages at early ages was widespread and common, in Judaism, Christianity, and the rest of the ancient world.

JUDAISM :

Promoting and allowing sex with 3-year old infants :

A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."
And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And they are liable on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman. And she imparts uncleanness to him who has intercourse with her when she is menstruating to convey uncleanness to the lower as to the upper layer. If she was married to a priest, she eats heave offering. If one of those who are unfit for marriage has intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood. If one of all those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her did so, they are put to death on her account. But she is free of responsibility.
If she is younger than that age, intercourse with her is like putting a finger in the eye.
(Mishnah Niddah 5:4)

According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, Moses therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations."

CHRISTIANITY :

During the time of Jesus, the age of consent was three months after the first period .This biological event of puberty usually ranges between the ages of 8 to 13 (unless precocious or delayed puberty kicks in) . An age of consent at the age of 8 years old would certainly be foreign to modern-day folks as i explained previously, and just a century ago the age of consent in the West was remarkably low ...

Hence, Mohammed's marriage to Aisha is .. surprise, surprise ... perfectly in tune with Christian age of consent laws found in the Bible ! Thus, using pure logic and reasoning, i have completely destroyed your silly silly uneducated ranting.

I repeat, simpleton : The age of consent in Christianity is when a girl reaches puberty, which varies and is usually from 8-13 (or later.) So ... if Mohammed was a pedophile and Islam a pedophile religion, so is Christianity and Judaism, for their laws ... are the same !!!!

Now, i usually respect all folks, regardless of religion, but this potent mixture of ignorance and (unknowing) hypocrisy is just hilarious ! Go back to your right-wing reading material and try coming back with an answer so i can laugh some more lol

The Byzantine Empire- the ruling Christian power at Mohamed's time- girls were married at 8 years old !!!! Child brides were the NORM in the Christian superpower of the times, and it is all recorded and accessible knowledge.

Mary was married to Joseph at 12, and the marriage was obviously consummated ... ( people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones !!!!)

Girls were betrothed at birth and marriages consummated as early as 10 years old in Christian Europe all the way into the16th century ! Very common among the nobility and peasant folk alike. Don't teach you that in the history books do they ..... derp .. derp ..


Firstly, as we have seen the case can be made by an agenda-driven individual of pedophilia being allowed in the Bible. How many Muslims are trolling the internet spreading these claims? Not many if any!

How many "Christians" do we see claiming Muhammad to be a pedophile and fabricating/peddling other crazed hoaxes about Islam/Muslims? A shed load, a ton, innumerable!

[The Arab]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nGLHR1f ... sponse_rev[/youtube]

[odbo]

by Paul Hofstadter
(for henrymakow.com)



Recently, the Internet and Cable TV were ablaze with the latest "scandal" : the Internet retail giant Amazon sold a "how-to" manual for pedophiles. Amazon removed it after initial resistance (as if that would actually solve the problem of pedophilia?? ... after all, Amazon was simply reacting to a demand already present in the marketplace, yes?)

I wonder how many of these "indignant" and "outraged" posters are themselves supporters of gay rights, and same-sex marriages? Isn't pederasty related to homosexuality?

For much of American history, homosexuality was regarded as a taboo. But then in the 1970s, things began to change. Rather than simply "violently oppose" homosexuality, we saw the emergence of comedy sitcoms like "Three's Company" where homosexuality was lampooned and made fun of.

Now it is being rammed down out throats, taught in schools and generally presented as a "lifestyle choice" and not a developmental disorder. People who refuse to experiment with homosexuality are deemed intolerant and hateful.

The same is formula/recipe is being used to force pedophilia onto the American public.

Pedophilia is so far from the cultural nature that no sane human needs to be "told" that it's wrong.

Such thoughts simply don't enter into the mind of the same, rational adult human.

But beginning about 10 years ago, the media began a campaign of planting seeds into the public mind of just how "bad" and "wrong" pedophilia is.

And even if such seeds do not blossom into pedophilia actions in that particular individual, the end result is that statistically, even by "attacking" and "violently opposing" pedophilia in this way, you will see a statistical increase in the number of pedophilia cases.

It's why drug abuse always increases after D.A.R.E. programs come to school and tell children how "bad" and "wrong" drugs are.

It's why suicides always increase after counselors tell teens not to kill themselves.

So about 10 years ago, the public began to be bombarded by news reports of pedophilia, by shows like "To Catch a Predator", and by "Law and Order" where it seems in EVERY SINGLE episode the detectives were trying to hunt down a child rapist.

That's Phase 1: the phase of "violent opposition."


Today we've moved into Phase 2: the phase of ridicule. This can most readily be seen in shows like "Family Guy."

History will record that "Family Guy" was to pedophilia what "Three's Company" was to homosexuality: in the 30 minutes that are devoted to an episode of "Family Guy", there will be at least 20 (if not many more) pedophile "jokes".

The show stars an infant baby who is himself gay, and who is constantly finding himself in predicaments where he is being propositioned, or outright having sex with, adult males.

The show features bestiality: a dog who is the "hot stud" of the town, "dating" a new, gorgeous blond girl in every episode. It features an awkward teenage daughter whose mother ends up having sex with every boyfriend she brings home. In fact, the only people in that show who are NOT having sex with each other are the husband and wife.

THE ENDGAME

It's true that today many people are campaigning for "gay rights" (most of whom, ironically, are perfectly straight and have no gay proclivities or inclinations whatsoever.)

In 30 years time, the children of these "gay rights" protesters will be campaigning for "pedophile rights" (just as their parents campaigned for homosexuality.)

But it doesn't end there: it gets (much) worse.

Americans have a dim, inchoate notion that at one time, Rome was a great Republic, and then at some later point, the Romans were throwing Christians to the lions.

But Americans have no concept whatsoever of the VERY HIGH SCIENCE that was used to degrade Rome from the noble Republic into the savage Empire.

A few of the basics of this HIGH SCIENCE have been outlined in this article. But it's worth noting that it doesn't end in social acceptance of pedophilia: it ends in the social acceptance of snuff.

The author was born into a generation that is known to pop culture as "Generation X" .. it was "Generation X" that brought forth this "gay rights" revolution, and it will be their children, the "Generation Y," (many of whom are presently in high school, or younger) who will bring about the "pedophile rights" revolution.

And it will be their children (the "Generation Z") who will bring forth a "revolution" to legitimize snuff... and it is worth noting that there are no more letters in the alphabet after Z.

The letter "Z" is the Endgame. And not just (or even necessarily) snuff in the pornographic sense, but snuff in the sense of how it was used in Rome: as a sort of Rollerball, Idiocracy, Running Man-style of snuff, where executing condemned prisoners is turned into a macabre game show, with frenzied crowds rabidly cheering for the death of the contestants.

This is the very grim future that now awaits America.

The destruction of a Republic follows a very precise, very SCIENTIFIC formula: (1) first you get the population to accept homosexuality; (2) then you get the population to accept pedophilia; and (3) then you get the population to accept snuff.

These three ALWAYS follow one another, in that order, like day follows the night. It is one of the lessons that history has to teach.

[Mr S]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MA11Df03.html

Sodomy and Sufism in Afgaynistan
By Spengler

Social scientists attached to the Second Marine Battalion in Afghanistan last year circulated a startling report on Pashtun sociology, in the form of a human terrain report on male sexuality among America's Afghan allies. The document, made available by military sources, is not classified, just disturbing. Don't ask, don't tell doesn't begin to qualify the problem. These are things you didn't want to know, and regret having heard. The marines got their money's worth from their Human Terrain adjuncts, but the report might have considered whether male pedophilia in Afghanistan has a religious dimension as well as a cultural one. I will explain why below.

Most Pashtun men, Human Terrain Team AF-6 reports, engage in sex with men - boys - in fact, the vast majority of their sexual contacts are with males. "A culturally-contrived homosexuality [significantly not termed as such by its practitioners] appears to affect a far greater population base then some researchers would argue is attributable to natural inclination. Some of its root causes lie in the severe segregation of women, the prohibitive cost of marriage within Pashtun tribal codes, and the depressed economic situation into which young Pashtun men are placed."

The human terrain team responded to scandalous interactions between Pashtun fighters and North Atlantic Treaty Organization troops, some reported with hilarity by the media. An article in the Scotsman of May 24, 2002, reported, for example: "In Bagram, British marines returning from an operation deep in the Afghan mountains spoke last night of an alarming new threat – being propositioned by swarms of gay local farmers. An Arbroath marine, James Fletcher, said: 'They were more terrifying than the al-Qaeda. One bloke who had painted toenails was offering to paint ours. They go about hand in hand, mincing around the village.' While the marines failed to find any al-Qaeda during the seven-day Operation Condor, they were propositioned by dozens of men in villages the troops were ordered to search."

Another interviewee in the article, a marine in his 20s, stated, "It was hell. Every village we went into we got a group of men wearing makeup coming up, stroking our hair and cheeks and making kissing noises."

The trouble, the researchers surmise, is "Pashtun society's extremely limited access to women," citing a Los Angeles Times interview with a young Pashtun identified as Daud. He only has sex with men, explaining: "I like boys, but I like girls better. It's just that we can't see the women to see if they are beautiful. But we can see the boys, and so we can tell which of them is beautiful."

Many of the Pashtuns interviewed allow "that homosexuality is indeed prohibited within Islam, warranting great shame and condemnation. However, homosexuality is then narrowly and specifically defined as the love of another man. Loving a man would therefore be unacceptable and a major sin within this cultural interpretation of Islam, but using another man for sexual gratification would be regarded as a foible -undesirable but far preferable to sex with a ineligible woman, which in the context of Pashtun honor, would likely result in issues of revenge and honor killings."

How prevalent are homosexual relations among Pashtuns? The researchers note that "medics treated an outbreak of gonorrhea among the local national interpreters on their camp. Approximately 12 of the nearly 20 young male interpreters present in the camp had contracted the disease, and most had done so anally. This is a merely anecdotal observation and far too small of a sample size to make any generalizations regarding the actual prevalence of homosexual activity region-wide. However, given the difficulty in procuring such data, it may serve as some indicator."

Through Khaled Hosseini's 2003 novel The Kite Runner, Western audiences caught a glimpse of what the military team calls "an openly celebrated cultural tradition. Kandahar's long artistic and poetic tradition idolizes the pre-pubescent ‘beardless boy’ as the icon of physical beauty. Further, even the newly re-emerging musical nightlife of southern Afghan cities idolizes pre-pubescent boy performers, whose star status lasts only as long as their voices remain immature."

"Kandahar's Pashtuns have been notorious for their homosexuality for centuries, particularly their fondness for naive young boys. Before the Taliban arrived in 1994, the streets were filled with teenagers and their sugar daddies, flaunting their relationship. It is called the homosexual capital of South Asia. Such is the Pashtun obsession with sodomy - locals tell you that birds fly over the city using only one wing, the other covering their posterior - that the rape of young boys by warlords was one of the key factors in Mullah Omar mobilizing the Taliban," the report adds.

Although the Taliban discouraged open display, it "should not be viewed as free of the culture and tradition of homosexuality of the Pashtun world of which it is a part" the authors add.

"Men who take on a halekon [young male lover] often attempt to integrate the boy into their families by marrying him to a daughter when the boy is no longer young enough to play the 'beardless' role. This maintains the love relationship between the father and son-in-law which inevitably makes difficult the establishment of a normal relationship with the wife," the human terrain Team explains.

The team's results are striking, but they place too much emphasis on the weirdness of Pashtun tradition and give too little attention to the broader role of homosexuality in Islamic (and especially Sufi) culture. What scholars now consider the Golden Age of Islamic love poetry, the Persian high middle ages, made homosexual pederasty the normative mode of love. While Petrarch wrote sonnets to Laura and Dante longed for Beatrice, their counterparts in the canon of Islamic poetry, Hafez and Rumi, wrote of their infatuation with young boys.

Afghanistan's own Sufi poet was the 17th-century bard Abdul Rahman Baba, of whom little is known except that he is said to have eloped with a young boy named Mujnoon. He is generally portrayed as a premature flower-child dedicated to peace and love; that must be what the Taliban thought as well, for they placed a bomb in his tomb in March 2009. According to the limited available criticism of Rahman's work, his Pashto poems are closely related to the Persian style of Rumi.

The prevalence of homosexual pedophilia in classical Islamic poetry, Persian as well as Pashto, suggests that the human terrain team may have missed an important dimension, namely the religious. In a study entitled Sufism, Sodomy and Satan published in this space August 12, 2008, I argued:
Sufi pedophilia cannot be dismissed as a remnant of the old tribal practices that Islam often incorporated, for example, female genital mutilation. Genital mutilation is a pre-Islamic practice unknown in the ancient and modern West. Even though some Muslim authorities defend it on the basis of Hadith, no one has ever claimed that it offered a path to enlightenment. Sadly, pedophiles are found almost everywhere. In its ascendancy, Sufism made a definitive spiritual experience out of a practice considered criminally aberrant in the West. But pederasty as a spiritual exercise is not essentially different in character from the furtive practices of Western perverts. As the psychiatrists explain, pederasty is an expression of narcissism, the love of an idealized youthful self-image.

All forms of contemplative mysticism involve the danger that the object of adoration into which one dissolves might turn out to be one's self. It sounds well and good to seek God in the all, that is, no place in particular. The trouble is that if one tries to dissolve one's self into the all, one's self becomes part of the all. The lover cannot distinguish himself from the all. The self and the all are the same, and one loves one's self. There is no other in Sufism, only your own ego staring back in the carnival mirror of mysticism. The adept does not worship a God who is wholly other - YHWH of the Hebrew Bible or Jesus of the Gospels - but a younger and prettier version of himself. In that respect, pedophilia in Afghanistan may have a distinctly religious motivation.

Spengler is channeled by David P Goldman, Senior Editor at First Things magazine.

Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam .. what exactly is the point of this post ? i actually took the time to read that post and had a smirk by the time I got to the end ... clearly an agenda-driven article and made clear in many nuances throughout.

Perhaps i have been trained to critically read and analyze any information I read, while the herds of lemmings lap up whatever they can find, in painful ignorance .

Pederasty, pedophilia and homosexuality has always been present in many places and cultures - especially the West, starting with boy-love and institutionalized pederasty in ancient Greece, to the Romans, to Medieval Europe and continuing to the present, with the explosion in internet pedophilia, created and sustained by Western men.

I am beginning to doubt your intelligence .. clearly you are not the brightest bulb in the shed.

whether this is due to genetics or ignorance is open to debate ... you are rather sheep-like friend.

also, why am I not surprised that article was written by your typical rabid Zionist ... lol, Goldberg, gosh !

I was just pointing out the fact there are many problems with Islam dominated male patriarchies and this article clearly showed examples of how homosexuality can become prevalent in Islamic cultures due to men not being able to see and have contact with local women. This individual you call a "Zionist" is a brilliant writer and has extensive experience writing about the inherent cultural clashes between the East and West. Whether you feel he has an agenda or not is not the point. He is giving a set of facts that have been verified and the reader can come to their own conclusion one way or the other based on what they have previously read and experienced regarding the subject.

Info: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/KD18Aa01.html
Main Blog: http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/spengler/

Just because you did not see the point to the posting or disagreed with it because the writer is a Jew or that other males do not agree that the Arabic form of patriarchy is the greatest pinnacle of male dominated society since human civilization began, all you are displaying to fellow male readers is an example of haughty arrogance. Using innuendoes to mock my supposed lack of any logical and rational intelligence doesn't support your credentials any further. Most of the males on this forum are probably not "sheep" that's why they are on this forum to begin with. And I know fully well what you implied with the remark, "sheep-like friend". I've also been around the world and one thing I've learned, that any foreigner stranger calling me that is not my friend and rather has plans for something ill-minded, that's for sure.

Yes, I know what the various competing global factions are up to. I know what many Jews with power are up to, but I also know that Islamic based dominated culture is not the answer either.

Examples:
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=13795
http://www.whitecivilrights.com/?p=4510#more-4510

There are a myriad of things going wrong in the world right now, you mentioned feminism and the downfall of the Western male, there are countless others. I agree this is a major issue men should be recognizing and dealing with and your initial posting had many truths regarding the matter. However, you must also be aware that the solutions to the issue sometime outweigh the initial problem. Your superciliousness regarding any replies to your post has created replies of ridicule and derision rather than an open discussion regarding the matter you initially brought up.

The world is entering a time of intense cultural posturing and clashes. Educated individuals that dissuade open dialogue by using ridicule and scorn to mock their detractors does not bode well for any kind of a rational discussion in dealing with the issue you initially brought up in the first place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clash_of_Civilizations

If you are willing to display your greater education and intelligence over others through your writings on this discussion board, it's the responsibility of this same person to be calm and rational in their explanation as to why. The reply you gave just provides ammunition to others that don't agree with you. It's seems it's your paradigm of reality or nothing at all.

I personally feel that what exists today as various cultural patriarchies whether they are dominent Christian, Islamic, Jewish or some other cultural entity are not the true answers to our existing dilemma. Rather it is probably something else that hasn't been conceived yet or been brought to our attention. The human experience is evolving along with increased difficulties regarding clashes between varying viewpoints. Everyone is unique and has their own experiences and viewpoints to share regarding various male issues. I personally don't participate in this forum to get personally attacked and I'm sure others probably share a similar opinion.

I enjoy reading and understanding various viewpoints. When people are derided for sharing theirs then that changes the whole participation dynamic. People either get pissed off and start bashing each other or the person disengages all together.