Are some men running from being responsible?

[Truthville]

Woman's View?

I wish you to read this article:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 07202.html It's dated BUT I'm sure the numbers have increased since it was written.

THEN give me some feedback on WHOM constitutes the "Ugly American/Westerner." The world is changing sweetheart and the "bad guys" aren't always "guys" these days.

TruthVille

BTW I totally agree with your posts S_Parc!

[S_Parc]

Truthville, that article's grotesquely anti-male, as if men don't seek *romance* but only women do, with escorts.

All and all, the ugly tourists are really the soccer types or the drunken youths. It's mainly a type of immature crowd, who're away from the parents.

Really, men after the age of 30-35, are polite and discreet and enjoy companionship much in the same way as women. And at this point in time, the colonial British/French/Dutch empire thing has gotten old, since the Suez crisis was back in '56. All these nations are independent. Well off men from east Asia and other non-western countries also engage in escorts w/o someone pinning the *East India Company* black mark on their backs.

[momopi]

The problem is, if you do not belong to one of these groups, you marry at your own risk.

I'll give you one other scenario which works:

A boy and girl grow up in some small town near Bangor Maine. They meet at the age of 13 and enjoy going out for hiking, canoeing, and fishing in their nearby lakes and rivers. They both listen to the same genres of classic rock. When they turn 17, they decide that they want to go for the big adventure so they both get accepted to Boston Univ (BU) in the city. Well, a year or two in, both of them are disillusioned by the haughtiness and Nouveau riche attitudes of many of their classmates. And in particular, they find Bostonians to be rude and arrogant for their tastes. Thus, they transfer back to the Univ of Maine, finish their degrees there, get married, and settle down for slightly lower paying jobs in Bangor ME so that they can enjoy the pace of life they were accustomed to w/o the rat race of the city.

The above scenario tells me that the good ones will be gone by early adulthood and at the same time, they're not fishing with either the urban or suburban sharks. Since it's impossible to go back in time to that mythical rural enclave, one has to accept the isolation and dysfunctionality of American urban and suburban life when it comes down to the battle of the genders. Thus, I've accepted this and have moved on. I recommend other fellows to do the same.

My cousin married a gal who enjoyed fishing. He is 1.5 gen Chinese-Taiwanese, and she is Korean adopted by American Jewish family. Their house looks like a zoo with multiple large aquariums and pets. The garage is used for the boat and fishing rod racks. Great match.

[globetrotter]

Another thing Americans have that even Canadians do not is the ease with which we can get credit. And credit, if used wisely can get you where you want to go and then you can pay it off in installments or go to Saudi and pay it off real quick. So, even if an American has no money, it is so easy to get a credit card. And credit can get out of of dodge, too.

When one purchases things with a credit card one is pulling forward demand from the future to get something in the present.

You are also assuming that you can pay it off - this is a dangerous assumption.

You are then paying interest to someone who could defer a purchase because you could not defer your purchase until you saved the money to buy it.

Credit and Debt are LITERALLY currently destroying the USA and the West.

There is no reason to ever use a credit card if you do not have the money to pay it off in full every 2 weeks.

If you don't have the money in your checking account and the check/debit card to pay for it, then you should not be spending any money until you have saved up enough to buy what you want.

If you are a man and you intend to live overseas then you need to save a certain sum before you go. If you don't have that amount, then you don't go. Once you get overseas you DO NOT SPEND THAT MONEY. That money is for 'just in case of emergency' to get you out of the country, pay for hospital bills, etc.

If you don't have that money saved, then don't go.

Period.

This is a blindlingly simple concept:

Save money. Spend less than you earn - FOREVER! Always be adding to that nest egg to keep you out of trouble.

[globetrotter]

I dated women in America but most attractive ones either would not give me time of day or treat me like dirt. And the better I treated them, even wrote poetry the more they despised me. Why?
Plus most have sexual history with several guys already. Not good for a mother in my view. Because my mother did not and my grandmother did not.
Will I treat women in other countries as lesser human being? No!

Ladislav,

You need to seriously consider whether or not you completed the Adjustment Stage of Culture Shock after you moved to the USA at age 18.

Reading your life story you were not fitting in from the first day and you never did. You gave up on assimilating and were a rejector of the US culture from the start. Clearly your entire life in the USA was isolated from your new host country's environment, which you came to perceive as hostile as you withdrew into a "ghetto" and returned to your own culture - one of an Internationalist - as the only way out.

[Truthville]

You are correct about the article S_Parc!

It's funny how men traveling and/or paying for sex are losers/misfits/evil enslavers and such.

And yet?

Women whom do "romance" tours?

Well, they ain't looking for sex per se, they are looking for romance! They come from more developed nations! They have more education! They want "romance!" With young poor 3rd world men! Whom they happen to have more money than! Whom they seek out BECAUSE of their sexual reputation! Whom they give "gifts" to! Whom they would NEVER associate with in their home countries. Whom they are usually quite a bit older than! Whom they, well it's quite beside the point, have SEX with!

Sounds like sexual tourism to me!

Just another example of how the same actions are viewed through the "feminism" prism! Women good! Man bad!

TruthVille

[Woman'sview]

Americans who immigrate can fall in either camp

I'd argue that the immature tourists (see Soccer fans) are more in your category than those who sincerely want to relocate.

You're crying wolf, please refrain from it "the US Flag is safe", you're only alluding to my theme that you're an Agent Provocateur.

I am just stating one side of what happens overseas.

[Adama]

All she has done is said the typical "NOT ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THAT!" All while proving she is JUST LIKE THAT!

[Woman'sview]

Another kind of pairing that seems to work is two "nerds" married with similar interest has a good chance of their marriage lasting.

I only see these types of couplings work when it's with the insular groupings like both Armenians or both Jews, etc, are in effect. Or when the guy is white and the woman, east Asian. But that's not a whole lot different then going to Taipei university and meeting a woman there.

The main pressure, which keeps nerdy white couples together is the academic ivory tower where in effect, they live a type of highly scheduled or regimented lifestyle. Yet, once they leave and work in the private sectors, they descend to the same failures of the less academic types in urban/suburban dysfunctional societies.

The reason why my rural Maine example works better is that both parties are *naturalists* at heart and enjoy the serenity of a fishing trip over being a part of some urban group think effect. This state needs to be instilled before one's 14 for it to be a life-long condition. I knew one rather attractive Maine country gal and she'd met her future husband, within her 1st week of arriving in Boston for work. Don't know if they moved back to Maine later but I figured her husband would gladly leave Boston for her, if he could find some telecommuting work. On the other foot, Urban-Suburbanites are very stimulant oriented than natural in their peak moments. Where the nerds fail is that many of them have had little real experience outside of studying for exams or doing one's homework. Usually, those people start to learn about adulthood, after the age of 30, and at that point, it's too late for them to really find out what's right and what doesn't work.

Yea, S_Parc, it is hard to find a marriage partner these days, if you have little in common. Attraction alone is not enough. Sharing the same faith is a great benefit if you practice it and the religion itself, nurtures a reverence for marriage. Then the community polices itself, and help protect the marriages, and the genders meet together in segregated groups to reinforce the belief system. There is still stigma and shame applied to individuals who fall from "grace" in this setting, so the marriage is sustained through thick and thin.

The woman sees the larger picture, and submissiveness is consider a virtue. The man submits to his religion, so he dares not cross a certain line either, so the marriage tend to last.

Religion can give you some protection in marriage, but it has to be a conservative religion, and you would have to both be serious adherents.

[Woman'sview]

Truthville, about your post about women engaging in the same practices as men overseas. I am not qualified to say much on this, as I have heard little about these things. It is a shame however, and, for women doing these things, it is not liberation at all. I can't help but feel ashamed and abashed because of that. (I need sometime to recover.)

Only goes to show that none of their entitlements seem to be enough for some women.

[S_Parc]

Yea, S_Parc, it is hard to find a marriage partner these days, if you have little in common. Attraction alone is not enough. Sharing the same faith is a great benefit if you practice it and the religion itself, nurtures a reverence for marriage. Then the community polices itself, and help protect the marriages, and the genders meet together in segregated groups to reinforce the belief system. There is still stigma and shame applied to individuals who fall from "grace" in this setting, so the marriage is sustained through thick and thin.

The woman sees the larger picture, and submissiveness is consider a virtue. The man submits to his religion, so he dares not cross a certain line either, so the marriage tend to last.

Religion can give you some protection in marriage, but it has to be a conservative religion, and you would have to both be serious adherents.

So far, everything you've stated is arguing about the boundary conditions. Yes, ~5% of American ex-pats are like the UK soccer hooligans, ~5% of anti-govt types burn American flags, and ~5% of "non-insular" American women are marriage material. That would be like me, advocating futures' trading, knowing perfectly well that 90-95% of newcomers lose their shirts after a year. But yes... 5% of that high honor society earns from $200K to $1 billion per year at it. Great, so let's all become daytraders, may the best ones live in the Hamptons!

[S_Parc]

It is a shame however, and, for women doing these things, it is not liberation at all. I can't help but feel ashamed and abashed because of that. (I need sometime to recover.)

Why are you having any emotional reaction at all? Why does it matter to you? Are you some coordinator or other peoples' lifestyles? Does it offend you that it's not just men but women as well? Does this remove one of your *devices* in portraying men with one stroke of the pen but women as another?

In all honesty, I could care less what people (yes, both genders) do with their money and time. This is what being an adult is about.

[Woman'sview]

Yea, S_Parc, it is hard to find a marriage partner these days, if you have little in common. Attraction alone is not enough. Sharing the same faith is a great benefit if you practice it and the religion itself, nurtures a reverence for marriage. Then the community polices itself, and help protect the marriages, and the genders meet together in segregated groups to reinforce the belief system. There is still stigma and shame applied to individuals who fall from "grace" in this setting, so the marriage is sustained through thick and thin.

The woman sees the larger picture, and submissiveness is consider a virtue. The man submits to his religion, so he dares not cross a certain line either, so the marriage tend to last.

Religion can give you some protection in marriage, but it has to be a conservative religion, and you would have to both be serious adherents.

So far, everything you've stated is arguing about the boundary conditions. Yes, ~5% of American ex-pats are like the UK soccer hooligans, ~5% of anti-govt types burn American flags, and ~5% of "non-insular" American women are marriage material. That would be like me, advocating futures' trading, knowing perfectly well that 90-95% of newcomers lose their shirts after a year. But yes... 5% of that high honor society earns from $200K to $1 billion per year at it. Great, so let's all become daytraders, may the best ones live in the Hamptons!

S_Parc, if 5% of American women are good, then that is where you have to go. You could go overseas as some here are doing. But it is good to know where the good women are in America.

[Woman'sview]

It is a shame however, and, for women doing these things, it is not liberation at all. I can't help but feel ashamed and abashed because of that. (I need sometime to recover.)

Why are you having any emotional reaction at all? Why does it matter to you? Are you some coordinator or other peoples' lifestyles? Does it offend you that it's not just men but women as well? Does this remove one of your *devices* in portraying men with one stroke of the pen but women as another?

In all honesty, I could care less what people (yes, both genders) do with their money and time. This is what being an adult is about.

Anyway, it all comes down to each person has a moral choice, and it has nothing to do with gender.

[S_Parc]

person has a moral choice

It's a matter of choice between two grown up adults, morality isn't your concern.