Is International Dating For Losers?

[momopi]

Let's be polite and say most of your ideas and expectations are unrealistic.

The purpose of Winston's post is to point out that many men didn't choose to be in a category that he couldn't do anything about.

Let's look at broader statistical perspective -- we'll pick the height attribute for this discussion. What percentage of American women do you think prefers to date taller men, versus those who would consider dating a shorter man, versus those who prefer a shorter man?

Socially, we're conditioned with the taller man & shorter skinny girl image. Well, girls are statistically shorter and, with some exceptions, most can go on a diet and become skinny. But for a man, your genes and childhood diet determines your body height.

90% of CEO's in America are above the average height. Of all the Presidential Elections in the 20th century, the taller candidate won 80% of the time. The average height of Congressman and Governors are 3" above the average American height. Just as better looking people get hired over not so good looking ones, taller men also get paid more on average.

A women who prefers to date taller man will, at best, consider dating a shorter one. The discrimination is real and not imagined:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=123853&page=2

"To see if the women would go for short guys who were successful, ABCNEWS' Lynn Sherr created extraordinary résumés for the shorter men. She told the women that the shorter men included a doctor, a best-selling author, a champion skier, a venture capitalist who'd made millions by the age of 25.

Nothing worked. The women always chose the tall men. Sherr asked whether there'd be anything she could say that would make the shortest of the men, who was 5 feet, irresistible. One of the women replied, "Maybe the only thing you could say is that the other four are murderers." Another backed her up, saying that had the taller men had a criminal record she might have been swayed to choose a shorter man. Another said she'd have considered the shorter men, if the taller men had been described as "child molesters."


The short man did not choose to be short. He did not choose to be, in Winston's words, "undesirable, unattractive, unwanted, and not dating material". "These labels and statuses were given and assigned automatically by default". Compared to taller and more appealing males, the shorter male must work harder to improve his sexual market value, to move up from the "undesirable" to the "will consider" category, while very few will make it to the "preferred' category (Tom Cruise?).

People don't like Winston (and others who went overseas) because he revolted against the established social structure and went abroad where his sexual market value is automatically higher. In Angeles city, a single American male is probably in the "preferred" category. He doesn't have to climb up in the same way as his counterpart in the US.

This upsets people who are firmly established in the meritocracy mindset, who thinks he took a short-cut. But the birth or gene lottery is not meritocracy, some people are born with a silver spoon and others are born into crushing poverty. The American meritocracy mindset is also hypocritical in its worship and granting of exceptions to the rich and famous. There's a double standard where a joe average male with a pretty wife from abroad is looked down as "mail order bride" loser, versus Hugh Hefner can have many pretty young GF's and be glamorous. Whos' to say that the average joe with a pinay wife isn't a better family man with strong traditional/conservative values, verus Hugh Hefner's playboy lifestyle?

[Grunt]

First off, who gives a flying rats rump what American females want?

Second, Hugh Hefner is a great example because he did get his ass handed to him in divorce court!

Third, I thank God every day that I discovered the truth about the average American female. Had I not, I could have married one. And that would have been the worst possible fate of all. Even worse then being alone.

[Winston]

That was a brilliant dissertation momopi. You nailed it! You are a true genius! So logical and insightful! I love how you always know how to make sense. You are like Spock and a wise father in one.

[jamesbond]

First off, who gives a flying rats rump what American females want?

Second, Hugh Hefner is a great example because he did get his ass handed to him in divorce court!

Third, I thank God every day that I discovered the truth about the average American female. Had I not, I could have married one. And that would have been the worst possible fate of all. Even worse then being alone.

Well put Grunt! Who gives a rats ass what American women want! An American man can simply go overseas and have his market value increased and have a much easier time meeting quality women!

[Hero]

The only people who've ever called me "loser" are even bigger losers.

[Grunt]

Aint THAT the truth! LOL!

[Winston]

Here's a revealing response I received by email to this topic:

"Excellent commentary Winston - I have something to add; when I was getting ready to go visit Kyrgyzstan to meet my wife, everyone thought I was nuts. On top of that whenever I spoke to American women, any woman, not even anyone that was a potential date, I would get a very cold response. The conversation would turn negative in an instant. I really feel it is a larger slap in the face to women in the US when men start looking elsewhere. So collectively they will turn against anyone who is thinking of doing this. It is almost an instinctual reaction to hearing of a man's intent to look for companionship overseas. Another friend of mine who went to the Ukraine, had a similar experience with his sister and mother. The sister I guess fueled the mother's disdain for what my friend was doing and eventually the mother showed understanding about it. But it does seem to be universal with american women that if you start to have a conversation about leaving the United States to fin
d a bride, the conversation will get very chilly. I am not sure what would happen if you told them that you were just going to get laid and that sex was better overseas. I would go one step further in saying that most women in America (this actually may be universal with women everywhere) want to be rich or "taken care of" but have a mindset of mediocrity. I also think that another variable that enters into this discussion is the "puritanical" attitude here in America. This in itself is a double edged sword that is used when it is convenient. Women tend to put up the puritanical facade but really act out in the opposite manner. To be fair, men have their issues too with insecurity (probably caused by being put down by women) and don't always behave with the utmost humility, admitting to their human frailties."

[Winston]

I also think that, one reason why American women tend to view guys that go abroad to get women as "losers" is because if they didn't then they've have to admit that these guys go overseas cause American women suck. And since they don't want to take the blame, they'd rather pin it on the guy and call him a loser instead. That makes sense.

[momopi]

It's a matter of sexual competition. You only welcome additional competition if it favored you, not the other way around.

During WW2, American servicemen brought home some 300,000+ war brides, mostly from Europe. This caused a lot of resentments from the locals:
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/us-forc ... kiwi-girls

Now imagine if tens of thousands of good looking, wealthy men descended on Angles city, raising the local girl's expectations. How would you react to such a development?

[Shokkers]

There's a slight cracKK in the mirror that's being held up here...

Winston claims that he--and a lot of other guys--are socially 'dissed' by American women because he's not caucasian, or not wildly rich, or not tall, or movie-star handsome, or muscular, or wildly charismatic, or whatever.

However, there's a guy who MAY prove that all false.

Ross Jeffries, who'm I've just noticed, looks like a GARGOYLE. Or Dr. Smith from the "Lost In Space" TV show, Or just a thin, older white guy with a bad haircut and a scary face. If I was a chick, I'd bail in a heartbeat.

BUT he DOES get women, in droves. I imagine it's because they were apprehensive of his looks, that he had to come up with some sort of quasi-hypnotic attraction routine.

I will neither endorse nor condemn his methods (Google his name if you want to learn more). But once you see this guy, you ought to think, "Damn, I ought to get more chicks than THIS guy, by DEFAULT..."

Best, KK

[Winston]

Yeah but Shokkers, how wealthy is Ross Jeffries? Remember a man doesn't need to have looks if he has status.

To most white girls, an Asian man is out of the question, even if he has looks or status. They just cannot fathom dating an Asian man. It's out of the realm of their reality and they do not even want to consider it.

[momopi]

Winston claims that he--and a lot of other guys--are socially 'dissed' by American women because he's not Caucasian, or not wildly rich, or not tall, or movie-star handsome, or muscular, or wildly charismatic, or whatever.

However, there's a guy who MAY prove that all false.

There are always exceptions, like the right and left side of a curve.

My cousin is Asian (Chinese/Taiwanese), short, and wears glasses. At age 14 he bagged a 17 year old blond GF for 6 months. They lived in San Francisco and meet at a music camp. People in SF, and musicians in general (he's a violin player) are more open and have different mindset.

My first couple of GF's in college were all white, I didn't have my first Asian GF until I was 21-22. But I'm 6' tall and not reflective of average Asian height. Girls in college are also more open to experimenting. After graduation, it's harder to get a date with them until they hit 30's, then they turn kinda desperate.

Check the web for "The Asian Playboy", he seems to play the dating field well:
http://theasianplayboy.blogspot.com/200 ... -list.html

To most white girls, an Asian man is out of the question, even if he has looks or status. They just cannot fathom dating an Asian man. It's out of the realm of their reality and they do not even want to consider it.

Statistical tests from speed dating events have shown that white women are 65% less likely to date Asian men versus white men. This means the other 35% will consider it, assuming the Asian man's sexual market value is high enough. The 65%-35% ratio may seem bad until you realize the US population ratio between Asians to non-Hispanic whites are 5%-66%.
ounterpart.

Statistically, an average height Chinese young adult male (5'8" *) will probably have better luck in the American dating market, than a 5 feet tall white male.

* Source: http://www.alvanon.com/news/CHINASCAN.pdf

The 5 feet tall male will probably blame American women for his misfortune. But the women didn't make the average male height 5'9" in the US, the guys did. Yet the shorter man blames the women and not taller men, because it's the women that rejects him, not the men.

How the short male deals with the situation, will determine if he ends up a loser or not. He could work hard to elevate his socio-economic status, go to Cambodia and get a beautiful 5' tall wife, or stay in his parent's basement and blogs about how much he hates the world.

[Winston]

Hi all,
I've taken my rant in the first post of this thread about "am I a loser? is this site for losers?" and put it as part two of my home page, here:

http://www.happierabroad.com/alternative.php

In doing so, I've added a few more paragraphs which wasn't in the original version posted here. Here are the additional paragraphs:

"And besides, even if you did "work" on yourself and became a great guy with wonderful qualities and a lot to offer, so what? If you're not a woman's type in America, and hence not desirable, then all you will get is a pat on the back from women and be told, "Congratulations. You have many great qualities and a lot to offer. I'm sure you'll be a good catch to the right woman someday." What's that going to get you?! Rather than wait years (or never) for "someone" who finally appreciates me, I'd rather be DESIRABLE to women in general, so that I have CHOICES anytime I want, including NOW! And in some foreign countries where the factors are in my favor, I have just that. Life is too short, so why wait years or never?!"

"But let's be honest here. How many dateless people do you know who turned their dating life around by simply 1) Working on themselves and 2) Joining clubs and activities? Virtually nobody right? So as you can see, this advice is simply worthless."

W: In addition, I've posted the letter to Paul from that Ontario lady that was posted here, as an example to illustrate a point. And I've posted a great analysis, as usual, from momopi as well. Have a look at the link to the second part of the home page above.

[Shokkers]

Ross Jeffries appears to be 50, perhaps mid to late 40s.
I don't know how wealthy he is. He claims to have been promoting his techniques from the early stages of the internet, so that would make him pretty well off.

But even if he is rich, he doesn't display it. In the videos of his seminars, he's normally wearing a t-shirt & jeans. He also has graying hair and is quite thin.

I think Jeffries, and DeAngelo, and others, HAD to come up with techniques, and they did it like Edison, trying one thing, then the next thing, etc.

So there may very well be a 'process' that works on a lot of women. I've succeeded without one, but it's cool to know someone's laid the groundwork for people who only want to score.

[momopi]

"But let's be honest here. How many dateless people do you know who turned their dating life around by simply 1) Working on themselves and 2) Joining clubs and activities? Virtually nobody right? So as you can see, this advice is simply worthless."[/b]

Yes and no. Using earlier body height example, a 5'9" tall male who has trouble getting a date, is not the same as a 5' tall male who has trouble getting dates. Self-improvement and expanding your social circle works for the majority of men, but not so well for a smaller minority.

There's a right way and wrong way to do things. Self improvement is kind of like women getting implants and plastic surgery. If done properly, all the guys will stare at her boobs. But if the surgery was botched, then you end up looking like Tara Reid's stomach in 2005.

For a man, learning cheesy pick up lines from some e-book will make you look like spoiled cottage cheese. But if you cleaned up, get a hair cut, dress better, get an education/career, worked out, you'd increase your sexual market value here and abroad. Joining social groups and mixers will also improve your networking and meet women. I belong to several local Asian American working professional organizations and people hook up there all the time at their mixers, including myself. Been to several weddings this year already.

It's easy to tell people that they have better prospects overseas, but harder to do whe the person cannot afford the airfare or relocation. Improving your career and finances would enable you to do so. Having higher sexual market value, would also open doors to girls in higher socio-economic bracket overseas. It's up to you to decide if you want to pursue and marry a girl from poor family, or a doctor.