Where do you CURRENTLY live?

[skeptic]

If you live in the America, what city and state? If you live abroad, what city and country?

I live in New York City. Originally from the f.USSR.

[ladislav]

There are now 3 people here from the former USSR. Interesting. Nice to know I am not alone. Here in the Philippines there are people from Romania, Bulgaria, as well. And even Poland. They have come with Western passports and are chasing ( or rather being chased) by local girls. It is always nice to discover that one is not a 'freak'.

[skeptic]

One thing I don't understand is, how come so many guys actually find something good at home without considering themselves a "freak" or a "creep".

[ladislav]

I don't think it is that many though. And what they find is not high quality. Some guys get the best girls, most settle for less. They are not freaks or weirdos because they are all cooking in the same soup and doing the same thing.

As far as your signature goes, I think most guys that look for international opportunities do not try to run away from themselves. Mostly they are just moving to greener pastures. When I went to Saudi to work, I was not running away from myself, I was running away from a bad job market and high prices in the US. It worked. Same in the Philippines. I do not think that by moving to a place with a huge number of available women is running away from one'self. If anything, it is making sure you can have yourself fully realized and your potential fulfilled in a global economic and romantic marketplace. It is all about finding yourself.
In other words, we move to areas where we are more marketable as people and not running away from ourselves.

[Jackal]

One thing I don't understand is, how come so many guys actually find something good at home without considering themselves a "freak" or a "creep".

They found women because they've managed to become part of the right cliques, but not everyone can do this. The social rules of admission are very strict.

But you did mention that you're Jewish and Jews get all kinds of special protections in the US, so I can see why you like it there. If anyone in the US media even slightly criticizes a Jewish person even for legitimate reasons, they get stomped on by the establishment. I'm not anti-Jewish, but I don't see Jewish people as being infallible either.

[skeptic]

They found women because they've managed to become part of the right cliques, but not everyone can do this. The social rules of admission are very strict.

But the guys I see are not celebrities or millinaires. They are regular guys who somehow managed to pass the test. It just doesn't feel acceptable to give up while seeing them enjoying the success.

If anyone in the US media even slightly criticizes a Jewish person even for legitimate reasons, they get stomped on by the establishment.

I wish we were as good at that as African Americans are. By the way, any examples?

[Jackal]

They found women because they've managed to become part of the right cliques, but not everyone can do this. The social rules of admission are very strict.

But the guys I see are not celebrities or millinaires. They are regular guys who somehow managed to pass the test. It just doesn't feel acceptable to give up while seeing them enjoying the success.

You keep misunderstanding everything on this site. A "clique" is basically a group of friends which only allows new people to become part of the group if they have certain qualities. There are cliques in all social classes, even though not everyone might use that word. It's not just a group of rich people.

Since you're totally unaware of these things, why don't you try an experiment? Find a group of people you don't know who you think would be fun to hang out with and approach them and try to become part of their group. I think you'll find that it's a lot tougher than it looks...

If anyone in the US media even slightly criticizes a Jewish person even for legitimate reasons, they get stomped on by the establishment.

I wish we were as good at that as African Americans are. By the way, any examples?

What? You've never noticed these things? Where have you been?

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big ... mlb-196441

http://www.jewishjournal.com/world/arti ... _20080125/

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2427

http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=47473

http://www.popeater.com/2010/07/27/oliv ... c-apology/

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=123177&page=1

http://asmalldoseofreality.bloghi.com/2 ... allen.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14406528/

Film Director Spike Lee was criticized by the Anti-Defamation League for his portrayal of Jewish nightclub owners Moe and Josh Flatbush in his 1990 film Mo' Better Blues. The Anti-Defamation League claimed that the characterizations of the nightclub owners "dredge up an age-old and highly dangerous form of anti-Semitic stereotyping," and "...disappointed that Spike Lee - whose success is largely due to his efforts to break down racial stereotypes and prejudice - has employed the same kind of tactics that he supposedly deplores." [44] Lee's portrayal also angered the B'Nai Brith and other such Jewish organizations causing Lee to apologize via an Opinion-Editorial article in the New York Times.[45]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League

http://card.wordpress.com/2006/11/26/an ... ism-radar/


So much for freedom of speech... In the US, you can criticize the French, the Germans, and the Muslims until the cows come home, but if you make just one negative comment about Jews, you generally lose your job or at the very least get blasted by the mainstream media.

[skeptic]

A "clique" is basically a group of friends which only allows new people to become part of the group if they have certain qualities. There are cliques in all social classes, even though not everyone might use that word. It's not just a group of rich people.

So, that means other guys somehow managed to either be born with the required qualities, or to nurture these qualities by working on themselves. So, do you mean to say that there is no such thing as "cliques" in foreign countries? You won't convince me in that; I grew up there and I know there are. And if I (or you, or Winston, or anyone) fail to fit in most cliques in America, I don't see any significant basis that I would fully fit into a clique elsewhere (as a full-fledged participant, not as a foreign novelty).

Since you're totally unaware of these things, why don't you try an experiment? Find a group of people you don't know who you think would be fun to hang out with and approach them and try to become part of their group. I think you'll find that it's a lot tougher than it looks...

I'm fully aware of these things, but I doubt that any foreign environment would be much better for me. And even if it would, having to look for a clique abroad is a blow to my self-esteem.

So much for freedom of speech... In the US, you can criticize the French, the Germans, and the Muslims until the cows come home but if you make just one negative comment about Jews, you generally lose your job or at the very least get blasted by the mainstream media.

French and the Germans are not prone to such excessive criticizing just because they are French or Germans. With Muslims, however, it's more delicate, particularly in this day and age. By the way, don't you know that African Americans would not tolerate a verbal attack against them? And, you know what, it's better to take away some of the freedom of speech than to allow hatred to penetrate human minds. I would wholeheartedly support a punishment for any racist who verbally attcks African Americnas (or any other minority), and I expect others to do the same thing for any anti-Semite who verbally attacks my people. No double standards here.

[Jackal]

So, do you mean to say that there is no such thing as "cliques" in foreign countries? You won't convince me in that; I grew up there and I know there are. And if I (or you, or Winston, or anyone) fail to fit in most cliques in America, I don't see any significant basis that I would fully fit into a clique elsewhere (as a full-fledged participant, not as a foreign novelty).

Of course, there are some cliques in foreign countries, but women in foreign countries are often much less paranoid about men approaching them individually. In America, you generally have to become a friend of a woman's friend first before she will consider your advances.

I'm fully aware of these things, but I doubt that any foreign environment would be much better for me.

You might be right. You won't find any country besides Israel which is more pro-Jewish than the US.

And even if it would, having to look for a clique abroad is a blow to my self-esteem.

Oh dear...

French and the Germans are not prone to such excessive criticizing just because they are French or Germans.

If you look at what's actually said in the US media, you will see the French and the Germans are indeed criticized so frequently that it might indeed be termed "excessive."

With Muslims, however, it's more delicate, particularly in this day and age.

From what I can see in the US, it's not so delicate. You can say all the anti-Muslim jokes on TV you want. If you said even one anti-Jewish joke you'd be fired (unless of course, you're Jewish yourself).

By the way, don't you know that African Americans would not tolerate a verbal attack against them?

Yes, I guess they're a very sensitive minority, too, but the pro-Israel lobby has a more powerful influence on American media and politics.

And, you know what, it's better to take away some of the freedom of speech than to allow hatred to penetrate human minds.

Hatred starts in the mind, not the mouth. If you take away the ability to say things, the thoughts and hate still remain in people's minds.

I would wholeheartedly support a punishment for any racist who verbally attcks African Americnas (or any other minority), and I expect others to do the same thing for any anti-Semite who verbally attacks my people. No double standards here.

Perhaps, you don't have double standards, but the fact is the American media does.

[skeptic]

You might be right. You won't find any country besides Israel which is more pro-Jewish than the US.

Maybe not more pro-Jewish, but perhaps on the same level: Canada, Australia. Even the U.K. seems pretty friendly.

Yes, I guess they're a very sensitive minority, too, but the pro-Israel lobby has a more powerful influence on American media and politics.

There has to be some balance. Look at what pro-Arab lobby is doing with Europe (especially with France).

Perhaps, you don't have double standards, but the fact is the American media does.

Maybe, but I'm not sure in which direction.

[globetrotter]

"One thing I don't understand is, how come so many guys actually find something good at home without considering themselves a "freak" or a "creep."

Until I was 42 I got lots of chicks. More than your share and mine, combined.

Then I began to look older and I didn't age as well as I could have. Bit of a paunch, massive amounts of grey hair, balding on top, receding hairline. Basically, when I was 39 I looked to be 32. When I was 43 I looked to be 60. Some health issues accelerated this, too.

Point being that I did ok with the girls right up until a few years ago and then it fell off of a cliff. Now I am in Asia and I speak to more girls in one day than I did in one year in Socal.

Even those good looking, thin, tall, cool guys with the cool job have a hard time of it after a while in the USA.

Also, I never wanted to marry. Couldn't put my finger on it, but it just seemed to be a trap. No benefits, all responsibilities for the man. Then I read some MRA material and I found out exactly and precisely what is wrong with marriage in the USA.