Unapproachable women in America

[LukeSkywalker]

Most of this thread so far reads like sour grapes. I've had dozens of American women lovers, and friends, and noticed that they usually don't take to men they find undesirable. Same as men don't go for women they find undesirable. Surprise!

I've lived in the former Soviet Union for years, and I do notice a distinct difference between women in America and the fSU. That's not to say one or the other is more desirable. And, if American women don't like a guy, fSU women probably won't either, at least not for long. If guys bomb out with American girls, it's most likely due to some defect in the men that makes them undesirable. Such as being socially inept (geek nerd, neurotic), having few if any social skills, or just being dull and boring. If you're looking for salvation among foreign women, you might overcome age difference to an extent in fSU (where Winnie bombed out totally), or more likely in Philippines or Thailand. But personality disorders won't go far in any relationship. They'll be tolerated most by some young women (very young, like late teens) simply because girls that age don't have much experience in life overall and will put up with it until they figure things out. (As Aunt Shirl is pressing her niece to do now, fast, for example, being older and wiser.)

Bashing US girls because of lack of action isn't a fault of the girls en masse as some are trying to suggest here.

Er..... No, sorry, wrong number Strangelove. I don't know about FSU girls, but I do know about Polish and Slovakian girls (I went to Slovakia too for part of my trip). There is a mountain of difference between the way that Polish and Slovakian girls treat guys and the way that American girls treat guys.

In the small towns of Zakopane and Rydzyna, the girls would giggle and blush at me over even the tiniest little things. Sometimes even just looking at a girl would cause her face to get all flustered and red, and make her start giggling. And then of course because I don't speak Polish, what I would do is if she was sitting at a table, I would make a gesture with my hands indicating that I was coming over to sit with her, and almost always she would have no problem with that. And many of them didn't have a problem just being there with me, even though we couldn't talk to one another. (Due to the fact that there really aren't any English speakers in these small towns at all).
And I'm talking about girls that look like models.

Now Winston mentioned that Russian women are hardwired to only be attracted to bulky macho men. I personally am a 6' 1" man with a Marathon Runner's body (lean, rather than bulky, but still muscular). So if Polish women are the same way as Russian women, perhaps that was close enough for some of the girls to be attracted enough to me for their faces to get all red until they burst out giggling.

Essentially the language barrier was what damned me from getting any farther with these girls, but I still really don't think that my trip was "a failure", and quite frankly I really don't care if you see either Winston's trip to Russia or my trip to Poland in that way, and I really don't think Winston cares either.

Now, in contrast to Poland, at my college in America, girls pay attention to me only at parties, which seems like Winston said to be one of the only places that it is socially acceptable in America for people to meet each other. Other than that they have this complete uncrackable "bitch-shield" up.

PS: And by the way, Dr. Strangelove it sounds like you are a Wu-basher, and Wu-bashers are only allowed to post in the Wu-bashing forum. So if you only want to keep on bashing, you'll have to go over there.

[Chemist]

Now, in contrast to Poland, at my college in America, girls pay attention to me only at parties, which seems like Winston said to be one of the only places that it is socially acceptable in America for people to meet each other. Other than that they have this complete uncrackable "bitch-shield" up.


Yes, I hear this alot. But frankly, I don't see it.

Catching an American girl in a public place is the best time to start off conversation. The parties are the worst place, that's when they have the shield up. But catching them at a bus stop or bookstore is even better. They're just minding their own business.

Luke, if how you describe yourself is true, than women should have no problem with you approaching unless there is something wrong with your delivery.

[Winston]

Most of this thread so far reads like sour grapes. I've had dozens of American women lovers, and friends, and noticed that they usually don't take to men they find undesirable. Same as men don't go for women they find undesirable. Surprise!

I've lived in the former Soviet Union for years, and I do notice a distinct difference between women in America and the fSU. That's not to say one or the other is more desirable. And, if American women don't like a guy, fSU women probably won't either, at least not for long. If guys bomb out with American girls, it's most likely due to some defect in the men that makes them undesirable. Such as being socially inept (geek nerd, neurotic), having few if any social skills, or just being dull and boring. If you're looking for salvation among foreign women, you might overcome age difference to an extent in fSU (where Winnie bombed out totally), or more likely in Philippines or Thailand. But personality disorders won't go far in any relationship. They'll be tolerated most by some young women (very young, like late teens) simply because girls that age don't have much experience in life overall and will put up with it until they figure things out. (As Aunt Shirl is pressing her niece to do now, fast, for example, being older and wiser.)

Bashing US girls because of lack of action isn't a fault of the girls en masse as some are trying to suggest here.

W: You have a very mono-national perspective Dr. Strangelove. Fault is an opinion. You are not presenting facts here. You are merely using a victim blaming mentality. If the fault is mine, why don't my "defects" affect me in the Philippines? These "defects" you allude to are cultural and only in the minds of those who see them. They are not objective facts. Stop presenting your opinions as facts.

[Winston]

Now, in contrast to Poland, at my college in America, girls pay attention to me only at parties, which seems like Winston said to be one of the only places that it is socially acceptable in America for people to meet each other. Other than that they have this complete uncrackable "bitch-shield" up.


Yes, I hear this alot. But frankly, I don't see it.

Catching an American girl in a public place is the best time to start off conversation. The parties are the worst place, that's when they have the shield up. But catching them at a bus stop or bookstore is even better. They're just minding their own business.

Luke, if how you describe yourself is true, than women should have no problem with you approaching unless there is something wrong with your delivery.

W: You sound like one of those guys who are just talk and no action. Every guy in the states that claim what you claim above has never been able to demonstrate it, when asked to put it to the test. If I was with you in person, and I challenged you to approach American women, you would probably chicken out with some excuse. They always do.

This is why one of my guests here admires me. He says that I never BS or make claims I can't back up. Everything I told him about the Philippines, I demonstrated it to him in person already. That's what he admires. He too, like me, is tired of the BS that guys make in the US about how much they are getting laid, when in fact they aren't at all.

Chemist, you make excuses when asked to present your website. Am I supposed to buy your credibility? lol That is a red flag that you are hiding something, and not as big as you make yourself out to be. Very fishy.

That's a sign that probably in person, you'd make excuses if I asked to watch you approach American women too. Sure, you can start up a chat with a girl about the weather for a few minutes, until she leaves and says, "well it was nice meeting you, bye." and you never see her again. But so what? That's sh** compared to what I have here.

On the other hand, if you came here, I can back everything I've claimed. And that's a promise. I always deliver on my promises, and that's why my fans love me. My guest here who is an intellectual and somewhat of a playboy too, loves to constantly reiterate that.

[LukeSkywalker]

Now, in contrast to Poland, at my college in America, girls pay attention to me only at parties, which seems like Winston said to be one of the only places that it is socially acceptable in America for people to meet each other. Other than that they have this complete uncrackable "bitch-shield" up.


Yes, I hear this alot. But frankly, I don't see it.

Catching an American girl in a public place is the best time to start off conversation. The parties are the worst place, that's when they have the shield up. But catching them at a bus stop or bookstore is even better. They're just minding their own business.

Luke, if how you describe yourself is true, than women should have no problem with you approaching unless there is something wrong with your delivery.

Chemist, if what you say is true, then where are all the smiles and giggles and girls' faces turning red that I got while I was in Poland? Where are the girls that will let me sit down at their table or on the bench with them without even having met them? (Something that I read about in Winston's ebook, never believed would work, and ACTUALLY WORKED in Poland, but when myself or other guys try that in America, girls flip out at us.)

Where are all the girls that will let me openly look them up and down three times in a row (model-like girls, too) and smile about it, when what I get when I do this in the States is a big scowl and a face that says EWW!?

Where are all the girls that don't mind hanging out with me for hours, instead of just a couple minutes, and then it's "See you later, bye!!" And then you never see them again, just like Winston said. (Yes, in Rydzyna, people have a close bond, and what people generally do in that small Polish town between after they get out of work, and when they go to bed is they spend most of that time, hours and hours, just being with one another. Instead of cloistering themselves somewhere in front of the TV like they do in America. And when I visited Rydzyna during my tour, I got the wonderful opportunity to be a part of that.)

Let me tell you Chemist, I was happier abroad, just like Winston. And Winston inspired me to go abroad, out of the West, to become happier. And if I would have spent my whole life thinking that I was the problem, then I never would have had the courage to leave the West, and I would have missed out on all the happiness of Poland.

[Chemist]

You sound like one of those guys who are just talk and no action. Every guy in the states that claim what you claim above has never been able to demonstrate it, when asked to put it to the test.

You are still acting like you know me. We never met Winston. I wish there was a way to test this believe me. American women aren't that bad in the social scene. If they feel that you aren't trying to get sex from them as soon as possible, they drop that shield fairly quickly. The reason the shield is so strong in bars and clubs is because everybody knows you are there to hookup.

Try this: Go up to an American woman and pretend that you are from out of town and your lost. Ask them to tell you where some hotspots are and offer to but them lunch in return for their kindness.

Don't compliment them.

Don't indicate that you should "get together later"

You will be amazed at the results.

Chemist, you make excuses when asked to present your website. Am I supposed to buy your credibility?

You asked me if I had a travel website or guide. I told you that I didn't. How does this effect my credibility when I've already told people that I have been to Ukraine and Russia.

That's a sign that probably in person, you'd make excuses if I asked to watch you approach American women too. Sure, you can start up a chat with a girl about the weather for a few minutes, until she leaves and says, "well it was nice meeting you, bye." and you never see her again. But so what? That's sh** compared to what I have here.

Let me get this straight. You go up to a girl and ask about the weather???? Sheesh. No wonder you're striking out. I suppose trying to find out what she is interested in and talking about that is out of the question.
On the other hand, if you came here, I can back everything I've claimed. And that's a promise.

I'm sure you can. I can tell a woman she is beautiful while I open my wallet also. I'm not impressed with your skills Winston.

[Chemist]

Chemist, if what you say is true, then where are all the smiles and giggles and girls' faces turning red that I got while I was in Poland?

From my experience, the shy ones in America have a similar reaction. I suspect that the language barrier contributed to this shyness. If they don't know your language, how else do you think they are going to react? Do you think that a polish man who speaks the same langauge as those girls will get a similar reaction? Just a thought.

Where are the girls that will let me sit down at their table or on the bench with them without even having met them?

You are a foriegner and a novelty. I'd let an interesting person sit next to me as well. As much as Americans want to keep to themselves, they would consider it rude to refuse somebody a seat if there isn't any other area to sit. Use that to your advantage.

Where are all the girls that will let me openly look them up and down three times in a row (model-like girls, too) and smile about it, when what I get when I do this in the States is a big scowl and a face that says EWW!?

I admit to experiencing this type of behavior in high school and a little in college. Once a graduated, however, this was no longer and issue.

Yes, high school can be pretty rough. That is one observation I think Winston was right about. But then you have to grow up.

Let me tell you Chemist, I was happier abroad, just like Winston. And Winston inspired me to go abroad, out of the West, to become happier.

That's great. I don't discourage travel in the slightest. I think if you have some extra money, there is no more constructive use for it than to go to another place and broaden your horizons. And I find it sprititually uplifting.

And you know something: Even traveling in the US and other western countries, people are receptive to somebody from out of town. It doesn't matter. And you're probably not griping about your job or all the chores you got to do and bills you have to pay like back at home. I think your success has more to do with people's reflection of you personally rather than them being non-western women.

[ozmodius]

I think Chemist has it exactly right. At bars and such, people are there to "hook-up". Non-western women don't meet men this way. Also women in these situations usually have the upper hand and can be picky.

One thing I do agree with Winston about is the "cliche" mentality of Americans. Trying to break into groups of established friends is difficult if not impossible. Most people have a "history" of many years of shared experiences and such. They usually, for better or worse, won't drop these friends. The only way to "break" in is to date somebody all ready in the group.

Here is what happend yesterday to my girlfriend. She was sitting at an outdoor cafe, reading, waiting for me and eating a sandwich. A guy at the next table started saying "Psst... Psst..... She ignored him. He than said to her "You ain't gonna give me a conversation"? She ignored him. He then stated "All I want is a conversation, you ain't gonna give me on". Finally she raised her head, shook it and said"No". Then I walked up. Do you guys think this kind of approach works with women?

To Skywalker, answer me this. If you happened to live in the Polish town and grew up in that Polish town, do you think the girls would still "Blush and Giggle" at you. You were a novelty, spend more time there and see how they react to you.

The bottom line is that women want to be treated as persons, not just sperm recepticles. Perhaps foreign women are different, but I doubt it. All women hate pigs. Some just tolerate better. Read Winstons ebooks and try his approach. I don't believe he ever had a deep or meaningful conversation with any of the women he met. They knew they were just blow-up dolls to him, so scamming and leeching off of him probably felt justified.

Try actually cultivating some actually charm, wit or intelligence and see how western women react.

Ozmodius

[The_Adventurer]

And you know something: Even traveling in the US and other western countries, people are receptive to somebody from out of town. It doesn't matter. And you're probably not griping about your job or all the chores you got to do and bills you have to pay like back at home. I think your success has more to do with people's reflection of you personally rather than them being non-western women.

The quality of your answers is seriously starting to degrade Chemist. The fact is, many people are noticing a huge difference between women in the west and those they meet abroad in Asia, Latin America or Eastern Europe. Even you have, I believe, stated that there is a difference, having travelled yourself.

What I find surprising, though, is that immediately tend to make huge assumptions about those who notice that difference. Assumptions about some fault of the particular person with no regard to possible differences in overall culture. When these cultural differences are mentioned, your response instantly comes back starting with the word, "You" and speaking against the person. You seem to assume that because they see the difference, they are having no luck at all and striking out at every turn in the west.

Also, when you say "Yes, high school can be pretty rough. That is one observation I think Winston was right about. But then you have to grow up.", it seems to indicate your thinking is "in the box", so to speak, in terms of American cultural concepts as described in Winston's writing.

[Chemist]

The fact is, many people are noticing a huge difference between women in the west and those they meet abroad in Asia, Latin America or Eastern Europe.

I don't dispute the fact that people are different. In my experience, the differences between cultures is more of degree rather than kind.

But I do dispute a person when he says that people are complex creatures and basically go off trashing a group of women in the same sentence because they are "unapproachable".

Even you have, I believe, stated that there is a difference, having travelled yourself.

Yes I have. And I claim that the reason is because of the novelty of being a foriegner and that you are likely not talking about the same things that are turning the women off back home. You are on vacation and in a different frame of mind.

Assumptions about some fault of the particular person with no regard to possible differences in overall culture.

I'm not saying that cultural differences don't play a part, but I take exception to the idea that the cultural differences are the sole reason that most people seem to imply. I take exception to the idea that a man's problem with women are exclusively the woman's fault.

If woman were to complain that all relationship problems are the man's fault, you guys would jump all over her!

When these cultural differences are mentioned, your response instantly comes back starting with the word, "You" and speaking against the person.
There was a case when LukeSkywalker asked for explanations for some women's behavior to him in Poland. So the use of "you", as in "you are a novelty" is appropriate.

You seem to assume that because they see the difference, they are having no luck at all and striking out at every turn in the west.

I doubt that if they were successful in the west they would be on this board complaining. So I am making an asumption as to why they are here. And this discussion board is hosted by somebody who shamelessly promotes his exploits overseas and I feel that this board is populated by people who are hoping to duplicate his exploits. So I see this as a valid assumption.

But I see very little discussion about what we think a woman actually wants. Don't you think that this would aid in success with women of all types? Or are we looking for the path of least resistance?

Also, when you say "Yes, high school can be pretty rough. That is one observation I think Winston was right about. But then you have to grow up.", it seems to indicate your thinking is "in the box", so to speak, in terms of American cultural concepts as described in Winston's writing.

Winston would have you believe that he is thinking out of the box. I disagree. If you are still describing the world through highschool paradigms, you are not thinking outside the box. The reason most people ditch them is because, once we arrive in the real world, we discovered that those paradigms were arbitrary (not really based on anything) and no longer relavent. We discover that we can choose our own
friends, and the jocks don't always get the best things in life.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Stop presenting your opinions as facts.

Look in the mirror.

Winnie, listen, if you can. I write about my own life experience. It is not merely an opinion. It's what happened.

You bombed out with women in the US because women in the US do not find you attractive. For a variety of reasons, women where you are now are less choosy and have far fewer options for any hope of a financially secure future. You have a US passport and citizenship, a positive in Filipina eyes. Plus, you have a dad who sends you cash on a regular enough basis to keep you going. Fifteen grand he last sent you is a fortune in Filipina eyes.

Etc. Look, I'm not going to spend much time debating you, because I think you're an idiot. That is an opinion, my opinion, as well as the opinion of countless other people who've tried to reason with you over the years. It's like talking to a telephone pole. This isn't intended to be a flame, just a recount of years of experience in listening to you and at times even trying to help you. Many people have, to no avail. Many of us are concerned now that some innocent newcomers might actually take you seriously, not understanding at first that you're a bit deranged. Lest there be any question about that, guys and gals can look at the rest of your web site and decide for themselves if it might possibly have been written by a sane, stable, reliable person. Or not.

[The_Adventurer]

I'm not saying that cultural differences don't play a part, but I take exception to the idea that the cultural differences are the sole reason that most people seem to imply. I take exception to the idea that a man's problem with women are exclusively the woman's fault.

I would take exception to that idea to. But my whole point is that no one need be at fault. It's not about someone having to do something to "turn off" someone else. There are so many factors that come into play before people even get to that point. Look at those articles someone posted about the vast gaps in statistics of interracial marriage. Look at some of the blogs of Asian men, even really good looking Asian men. Many of them, including a really good friend of mine, are often upset because many white women won't even consider dating an Asian, but many Asian women will only date white men so they begin to outnumber the available women many times over. There might be black or indian women who would gladly date them, but then they're not thinking about them. This type of list goes on and on.

My take on cultural differences is simple. I have lived in nearly every state on the bottom of this country and I have to say location matters. Results I get in the south are completely and utterly different than results I get on the west coast. Results I get in Texas are different than in Florida. In fact, in Texas the results were far better than anywhere except outside of the US. Now I know I didn't change. I don't talk differently or walk differently in each location, but something is different. And it's not just about getting girls. Life is different. The pace is different. How people interact on all levels is different.

I remember a friend of mine on the west coats, originally from Oklahoma was taking his kids back home to visit family. Having grown up their whole lives on the west coast, he said they were shocked that strangers would honk their horns and wave at you, strike up conversations and generally spend actual time getting to know you.

I doubt that if they were successful in the west they would be on this board complaining. So I am making an asumption as to why they are here. And this discussion board is hosted by somebody who shamelessly promotes his exploits overseas and I feel that this board is populated by people who are hoping to duplicate his exploits. So I see this as a valid assumption.

There are currently so few people on this board I find it difficult to say, but I can tell you this: The person who pointed me to Winston's writings, while not on this board, was an old friend of mine, someone that might be described as a "playa". He has his long hair, Harley motorcycle and cool sunglasses and is always pulling women. I don't mean boasting about it without the proof, we were roomates for years and went out together all the time. Yet he went to the Philippines three times now and came back saying the exact sames things that I read on the site.

But I see very little discussion about what we think a woman actually wants. Don't you think that this would aid in success with women of all types? Or are we looking for the path of least resistance?

Who wants to always iceskate uphill? I think discussion of what a woman wants would end up getting too broad and too general ot be useful, and do people really want to date women of all types? Most people I talk to only want to date X race women, or X2 races of women.


Winston would have you believe that he is thinking out of the box. I disagree. If you are still describing the world through highschool paradigms, you are not thinking outside the box. The reason most people ditch them is because, once we arrive in the real world, we discovered that those paradigms were arbitrary (not really based on anything) and no longer relavent. We discover that we can choose our own
friends, and the jocks don't always get the best things in life.

Ok. I was thinking of something totally different and unrelated. The whole "grow up and get a real job" mentality. "Buy your house, get married and settle down." Where life becomes about creating a good, proper corporate drone rather than about living.

[Mr S]

I suggest all men to listen to Tom Leykis and follow his 101 rules when dealing with woman, especially American woman. You will learn a lot and realize how manipulative woman really are. Now I know why there were and currently are so many rules in the past and other countries presently limiting womans social status. They cause men trouble unless you have control over them and your life with them, period.

This is an excellent forum and you can also download his daily radio show onto your Mp3 player or computer. It's good stuff. Guys that don't agree with the majority of what he says just don't understand the real world and what's going on around them. I say "majority" not everything...

http://leykisonline.com/leykis/

htttp://blowmeuptom.com/

[ozmodius]

Wow, what a bunch of sh*t.

Incredible that somebody would actually follow that "tripe".

I guess if you want to live like you are still in High School the rest of your life, and date "hot" high school mentality girls. This Tom guy seems like the kind of guy who brags about how many "hot" chicks he has banged, while secretly watching gay porn. Hypermasculine guys are usually masking their homoerotic cravings.


I guess women are "sperm recepticles" after all. I actually like to have "mature" relationships with women, but to each his own. I also like to be myself and leave the "game" playing to professional athletes, but different strokes on different blokes I guess.

[Chemist]

Many of them, including a really good friend of mine, are often upset because many white women won't even consider dating an Asian, but many Asian women will only date white men so they begin to outnumber the available women many times over. There might be black or indian women who would gladly date them, but then they're not thinking about them. This type of list goes on and on.

I've read similar types of data myself. Ironically, the demographic that appears to have the worse luck are black women.

My take on cultural differences is simple. I have lived in nearly every state on the bottom of this country and I have to say location matters.

I think that we are in general agreement on this. My original advice suggested to try dating a few women in the west and get to know them before going overseas. Then we can be reasonably certain that the issue is location and not the man himself.

I am being serious when I say that it sounds like some of these men haven't been on a date before. Winston's dating life appeared nonexistent and he looked to Russia for his salvation. Unfortunately he didn't bother to consider that Russia is more intolerant to interracial relationships than the West. He blundered through his relationships and when that didn't work, he resorted to money. Any respectable girl would be insulted by such overtures. It seemed obvious he couldn't relate to the opposite sex at all.

I also go to discussion boards on Russian bride sites and I see forty to fifty year old men wondering how they can get a Russian girl to like them or what they should do for the first date. These men obviously have no dating experience.

Yet he went to the Philippines three times now and came back saying the exact sames things that I read on the site.


If he's "pulling in women" I'm sure he will do well anywhere. In this case, we may be able to justify the location argument.

In someone like Winston, I'm not convinced. I'm interested to know how Winston does with women outside of the sex industry.

Who wants to always iceskate uphill? I think discussion of what a woman wants would end up getting too broad and too general ot be useful, and do people really want to date women of all types? Most people I talk to only want to date X race women, or X2 races of women.


Yes, we all like particular types. Winston justified his trip to Russia, in part, because he wanted a caucasion woman. And he goes to a country that is more intollerant to interracial relationships than the US is. And he was warned about it before he left! Talk about ice skating uphill!

If he gave some thought about what a Russian woman might want, he might have caught himself before making this mistake. Especially if you are expecting her to move to another country to be with you, her needs and concerns are paramount.

I see nothing to suggest that Winston gave even a passing thought at this.