Does race supersede nationality for Americans?

[ladislav]

most other countries determine citizenship by jus sangunis, or by family/blood.

Just about every country in the Americas is jus solis; not jus sanguinis. But according to what I saw with immigrant countries in L. America- and most of them are-- people of any descent born there are nationality first, race later. Race is not officially listed in documents, either as far as I understand. In the US, it is listed. So, race in the US is official; nationality is not.

Also, yeah, you can consider yourself an American in America but other people will have a different name for you; that is the problem. And even among so many so called white people, they label each other as Pollack, Wop, etc. Even if born in the US.

The above experiences are valid, without a doubt but they are still anecdotal and vary from person to person. My experience is that most Black Americans I meet abroad are very apprehensive of me and have a shield around them. I met some who were nice--in the Philippines and in Germany. Really good people. If a black American has no shield-- he is the nicest person you can meet and talk to and he will be your friend and not betray you.

Anyway, if you are a black American guy and want to be just " American", then Africa is the place to become an American. And if you are white skinned and want to be American, just go to the Philippines.

[skateboardstephen]

Even within america people dont feel american.


ask a black person what he is and many will say african american. Not just AMERICAN.

Chinese/asians are the worse. Many still consider themselves to be Chinese people and not Americans. They dont understand they are not Chinese at all. Only their ethnicity is of the mongoloid branch. Chinese is not a real ethnicity, it is a nationality.

Hispanics of course, will say they are hispanics.....

Very astute observation. Hispanics is a stateside term of phenomenon. I hate using that term because they want to claim Spain so badly despite that conquistadores had wiped out almost all "indigenitos" to what's known as modern-day Argentina and postWWII influx of Germans, Irish, and Italians to Argentina.

And look at Puerto Rico and DR, tainos almost got totally wiped out too yet they have the Stockholm SINdrome of their oppressors.

I hate the term Hispanic so much..and i am not even Hispanic LOL they use that as if it is a race and it is not even a race..the word originally was intended for Europeans from Spain.Latino originally refereed to Italians..and At lot of People from Latin America in the U.S. try to include Brazilians in the Hispanic/Latino club yet Brazilians are mostly descendants of Lusitania(Portugal, but even in Brazil you have Germans,Dutch and Italians in there) and don't even Speak Spanish they are Lusophones. I am off topic....but the point is no one want to go to America to be American even Americans don't want to be American.

[ladislav]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jus_soli_world.svg

Jus Solis countries- in light blue are those where it has been abolished.

Mid- blue is conditional-- I think one of the parents must be a citizen or resident.

[skateboardstephen]

Even within america people dont feel american.


ask a black person what he is and many will say african american. Not just AMERICAN.

Chinese/asians are the worse. Many still consider themselves to be Chinese people and not Americans. They dont understand they are not Chinese at all. Only their ethnicity is of the mongoloid branch. Chinese is not a real ethnicity, it is a nationality.

Hispanics of course, will say they are hispanics.....

This is funny because..even in Brazil, Asians with call themselves Brazilians!and claim Brazil to the death.

[Repatriate]

In the U.S., race definitely supersedes nationality. The whole racial divide was created in the States for the elites to control the masses. It started with keeping the enslaved Africans and white indentured servants from banding together. It has continued, with the inclusion of more European groups under the "white" umbrella for the sake of numbers and control. The funniest thing is that most middle and lower class whites in America think they're better than us, not realizing we are in the same boat. The elite class doesn't care about them either. I am a Black man with a Bachelor's Degree, and making a good living, and there are poor white trash people who are convinced they are better than me.

In Japan, which is where I'll be next year if things go as planned, they go by nationality and not race. They just see a Gaijin (foreigner), instead of seeing a Black or White foreigner.

True. As John Steinbeck put it "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

Zinn has written about this extensively as well. America's divisions are through race and religion. Class tends to be downplayed because the 1% are clever enough to not overplay that hand too much.

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

Even within america people dont feel american.


ask a black person what he is and many will say african american. Not just AMERICAN.

Chinese/asians are the worse. Many still consider themselves to be Chinese people and not Americans. They dont understand they are not Chinese at all. Only their ethnicity is of the mongoloid branch. Chinese is not a real ethnicity, it is a nationality.

Hispanics of course, will say they are hispanics.....

Very astute observation. Hispanics is a stateside term of phenomenon. I hate using that term because they want to claim Spain so badly despite that conquistadores had wiped out almost all "indigenitos" to what's known as modern-day Argentina and postWWII influx of Germans, Irish, and Italians to Argentina.

And look at Puerto Rico and DR, tainos almost got totally wiped out too yet they have the Stockholm SINdrome of their oppressors.

I hate the term Hispanic so much..and i am not even Hispanic LOL they use that as if it is a race and it is not even a race..the word originally was intended for Europeans from Spain.Latino originally refereed to Italians..and At lot of People from Latin America in the U.S. try to include Brazilians in the Hispanic/Latino club yet Brazilians are mostly descendants of Lusitania(Portugal, but even in Brazil you have Germans,Dutch and Italians in there) and don't even Speak Spanish they are Lusophones. I am off topic....but the point is no one want to go to America to be American even Americans don't want to be American.

Check THIS out (not being quid-pro-quo here to be an a.sshole, but this is so important for me to paraphrase here...):

A lot of Brazilians, especially the upper-echelon of Brazilians DO NOT LIKE to be called Latino because they think that South Americans besides them are lowlifes with low GDP/low per capita. Check that out! jajajaja kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

However, I DO think that even though Brazilians are Lusophones, Spanish-speakers from South America only claim Latino when it pertains to "se llama LatinoAmerica" for identifying geography of they land they reside and have history on. Sometimes they refer to it as "Iberoamerica" too, which kind of reverts back to the point you were making about Portugal's vintage name being Lusitania (as Myanmar was known as Burma and Thailand was Siam and N/S Sudan was a united Sudan despite religious differences to cause the split up) and in that Ibero- refers to the Iberian Pennisula which Portugal and Spain are on.

The only time Brazilians should refer to other Brazilians as Latinos is when it comes to the "exclusion act" that non-Brazilians put on in order to denote that Brazilians are not "true Latinos"...hey, Brazilians and Spanish-speaking Latinos have a lot and I mean a lot in common so that's where the commonality should be of association. I hope I wasn't too cryptic there.

[ladislav]

This is funny because..even in Brazil, Asians with call themselves Brazilians!and claim Brazil to the death.

They do so because others call and treat them as fellow Brazilians and human beings and because..well, they are Brazilians. They hold Brazilian citizenship, don't they? They speak Portuguese, don't they? They play soccer. What else do you need? So, it's not funny at all. It's correct.

The American variant is funny, stupid and tragic. Backward as sh-t, too.

It's kind of hard to call yourself an American when other people call you N..., G...., W....., J.., etc., and treat you as such all the bloody time.

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

This is funny because..even in Brazil, Asians with call themselves Brazilians!and claim Brazil to the death.

They do so because others call and treat them as fellow Brazilians and human beings and because..well, they are Brazilians. They hold Brazilian citizenship, don't they? They speak Portuguese, don't they? They play soccer. What else do you need? So, it's not funny at all. It's correct.

The American variant is funny, stupid and tragic. Backward as sh-t, too.

It's kind of hard to call yourself and American when other people call you N..., G...., W....., J.., etc and treat you as such all the bloody time.

Don't kill the messengers, sir! LOL

[kai1275]

This is funny because..even in Brazil, Asians with call themselves Brazilians!and claim Brazil to the death.

They do so because others call and treat them as fellow Brazilians and human beings and because..well, they are Brazilians. They hold Brazilian citizenship, don't they? They speak Portuguese, don't they? They play soccer. What else do you need? So, it's not funny at all. It's correct.

The American variant is funny, stupid and tragic. Backward as sh-t, too.

It's kind of hard to call yourself an American when other people call you N..., G...., W....., J.., etc., and treat you as such all the bloody time.

Well said!

[skateboardstephen]

This is funny because..even in Brazil, Asians with call themselves Brazilians!and claim Brazil to the death.

They do so because others call and treat them as fellow Brazilians and human beings and because..well, they are Brazilians. They hold Brazilian citizenship, don't they? They speak Portuguese, don't they? They play soccer. What else do you need? So, it's not funny at all. It's correct.

The American variant is funny, stupid and tragic. Backward as sh-t, too.

It's kind of hard to call yourself an American when other people call you N..., G...., W....., J.., etc., and treat you as such all the bloody time.

Yeah i meant that the American variant was screwed up....I hate to say this but i think it was Anglo-Saxons that started all this..with the segregation era...In countries like Brazil where segregation never took place(at least legally) the Portuguese mixed in with African slaves and the Native Indians and also included them in their culture..whereas white Americans exclude every one from their culture to insure the "white race remain pure" and post segregation they isolated themselves in suburbs fleeing the cities.Blacks felt like outcast there for walking around with a chip on their shoulder being hostile towards anyone not Black...then immigrants where added to the mix..then we have what be got now.

[Repatriate]

Yeah i meant that the American variant was screwed up....I hate to say this but i think it was Anglo-Saxons that started all this..with the segregation era...In countries like Brazil where segregation never took place(at least legally) the Portuguese mixed in with African slaves and the Native Indians and also included them in their culture..whereas white Americans exclude every one from their culture to insure the "white race remain pure" and post segregation they isolated themselves in suburbs fleeing the cities.Blacks felt like outcast there for walking around with a chip on their shoulder being hostile towards anyone not Black...then immigrants where added to the mix..then we have what be got now.

If you examine the origins of this it makes a lot of sense. The colonization programs were a bit different between the Spaniards and the British. The Spaniards would mate with anyone and anything and wanted to leave a long lasting blood legacy in their colonies. They were like the French in that they understood how blood caste systems work. The French also put half-french Half-haitian people in charge of their colonies. They wanted to create an extended French bloodline that would rule over their colonies.

The Brits viewed their non anglo saxon subjects as subhuman at best. This was because racial evolutionary theory was a big thing in the 18th and 19th century. British overlords and their prudish colonial transplants would not mate with anyone that wasn't anglo in those colonies. They believed in creating a country within a country and exploiting the locals. That's where the whole "white god" and master race complex came from. They wanted to keep their inner society distinctly anglo-saxon. This mentality is the one that America was left with.

[kai1275]

This is funny because..even in Brazil, Asians with call themselves Brazilians!and claim Brazil to the death.

They do so because others call and treat them as fellow Brazilians and human beings and because..well, they are Brazilians. They hold Brazilian citizenship, don't they? They speak Portuguese, don't they? They play soccer. What else do you need? So, it's not funny at all. It's correct.

The American variant is funny, stupid and tragic. Backward as sh-t, too.

It's kind of hard to call yourself an American when other people call you N..., G...., W....., J.., etc., and treat you as such all the bloody time.

Yeah i meant that the American variant was screwed up....I hate to say this but i think it was Anglo-Saxons that started all this..with the segregation era...In countries like Brazil where segregation never took place(at least legally) the Portuguese mixed in with African slaves and the Native Indians and also included them in their culture..whereas white Americans exclude every one from their culture to insure the "white race remain pure" and post segregation they isolated themselves in suburbs fleeing the cities.Blacks felt like outcast there for walking around with a chip on their shoulder being hostile towards anyone not Black...then immigrants where added to the mix..then we have what be got now.

Yep. Well said too. Louisiana was so mixed up when the French owned them, it wasn't funny. After the US bought it from them, many blacks and mixed people there lost all the rights and the special things they had and went back to just being a nigger or whatever again. Not saying the French were perfect either, but they just did not act as completely divisive as any British variants ever did.

[kai1275]

Yeah i meant that the American variant was screwed up....I hate to say this but i think it was Anglo-Saxons that started all this..with the segregation era...In countries like Brazil where segregation never took place(at least legally) the Portuguese mixed in with African slaves and the Native Indians and also included them in their culture..whereas white Americans exclude every one from their culture to insure the "white race remain pure" and post segregation they isolated themselves in suburbs fleeing the cities.Blacks felt like outcast there for walking around with a chip on their shoulder being hostile towards anyone not Black...then immigrants where added to the mix..then we have what be got now.

If you examine the origins of this it makes a lot of sense. The colonization programs were a bit different between the Spaniards and the British. The Spaniards would mate with anyone and anything and wanted to leave a long lasting blood legacy in their colonies. They were like the French in that they understood how blood caste systems work. The French also put half-french Half-haitian people in charge of their colonies. They wanted to create an extended French bloodline that would rule over their colonies.

The Brits viewed their non anglo saxon subjects as subhuman at best. This was because racial evolutionary theory was a big thing in the 18th and 19th century. British overlords and their prudish colonial transplants would not mate with anyone that wasn't anglo in those colonies. They believed in creating a country within a country and exploiting the locals. That's where the whole "white god" and master race complex came from. They wanted to keep their inner society distinctly anglo-saxon. This mentality is the one that America was left with.

Spot on.

[mrmillersd]

However, as time goes on Spanish/french ethnic features will decay. The recessive genes for light eyes/hair will be forever destroyed by the genes of indiginous peoples due to interracial kids

[YaManBT]

Yeah i meant that the American variant was screwed up....I hate to say this but i think it was Anglo-Saxons that started all this..with the segregation era...In countries like Brazil where segregation never took place(at least legally) the Portuguese mixed in with African slaves and the Native Indians and also included them in their culture..whereas white Americans exclude every one from their culture to insure the "white race remain pure" and post segregation they isolated themselves in suburbs fleeing the cities.Blacks felt like outcast there for walking around with a chip on their shoulder being hostile towards anyone not Black...then immigrants where added to the mix..then we have what be got now.

If you examine the origins of this it makes a lot of sense. The colonization programs were a bit different between the Spaniards and the British. The Spaniards would mate with anyone and anything and wanted to leave a long lasting blood legacy in their colonies. They were like the French in that they understood how blood caste systems work. The French also put half-french Half-haitian people in charge of their colonies. They wanted to create an extended French bloodline that would rule over their colonies.

The Brits viewed their non anglo saxon subjects as subhuman at best. This was because racial evolutionary theory was a big thing in the 18th and 19th century. British overlords and their prudish colonial transplants would not mate with anyone that wasn't anglo in those colonies. They believed in creating a country within a country and exploiting the locals. That's where the whole "white god" and master race complex came from. They wanted to keep their inner society distinctly anglo-saxon. This mentality is the one that America was left with.

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