It's easier to go MGTOW than it is to become a PUA

[jamesbond]

Winston has had sex with 400 women - getting sex isn't hard - depends on your sex drive and your priorities.

Wow, I didn't know Winston banged 400 prostitutes already! At this pace, he will hit the 1,000 mark before he goes into the 'happier abroad' spirit world.

[Nomad]

MGTOW's coping strategy is to curl up in a ball under the bed while everyone else goes on with life.
PUA is to go out, make a fool of themselves, and use Jedi mind tricks on unwilling and unsuspecting women to get them into bed, and then discard them like trash.

Unwilling or not, these women are above the age of consent, often adults and therefore responsible for their actions.

If they give consent and go with such guys and are dumped after, it's their problem, and nobody's else problem.
What else did they expect if they prefer PUA, bad boys and similar fuckers for a one-night-stand and ignore totally other men who are still single, honest but inexperienced.

I am not supportive to PUA, not at all - but you cannot blame men using PUA for dumped women who regret after their decisions...

I don't feel sorry for such women, their problem - for sure not the problem for MGTOW.

No, what PUAs are doing with women is very evil because they are discarding those women. It is not that women naturally seek PUA. Is this where your mind is stuck? PUAs use psychological manipulation to get what they want from women they have no intention of marrying/wifing.



Look at it this way:

1. There are men who women like and they will sleep with those men freely. Those men don't have to lie, use tricks or manipulate because women want them for them. These are the natural players. Women will actively pursue these men.
2a. Then there are the men who women do not automatically want. These men learn psychology to get inside women's minds.
2b. Not only are these men psychologically manipulating women into sleeping with them (men they ordinarily would not sleep with), these men are also using those women and discarding them in serial "pump and dump" fashion.

Now is 2 more grievous than 1? To me definitely. In number one the woman chose the man SHE WANTED. With the second, it is because she was manipulated into doing it by a man whose only intention was to use her and to discard her immediately after. She would not have gone with him at all, if he had not employed psychological warfare against her.

But because you have neither a soul or a true sense of morality, these concepts are outside your comprehension.

The only good part about PUA is that they have learned that men can lead women easily (something you suckers still don't know). The problem is they abuse that authority.

I think your right about PUA behaviour being morally wrong, but I hate your blindness to women's responsibility. You act as if they are just sheep to be herded and all they need is a strong man to keep them in line. You also do not mention any talk about how women in their social circles when no men are around, talk about manipulating them day & night.

You do realize that if these women were just innocent little snow flakes getting taken advantage of from men, men would of never have needed PUA or MGTOW in the first place right?

As I can see that your a Christian from your posts, you know that at the end of Times, God is going to judge all women according to their works. Simply meaning this: God expects women to have 100% accountability for their actions. So should you.

[Adama]

MGTOW's coping strategy is to curl up in a ball under the bed while everyone else goes on with life.
PUA is to go out, make a fool of themselves, and use Jedi mind tricks on unwilling and unsuspecting women to get them into bed, and then discard them like trash.

Unwilling or not, these women are above the age of consent, often adults and therefore responsible for their actions.

If they give consent and go with such guys and are dumped after, it's their problem, and nobody's else problem.
What else did they expect if they prefer PUA, bad boys and similar fuckers for a one-night-stand and ignore totally other men who are still single, honest but inexperienced.

I am not supportive to PUA, not at all - but you cannot blame men using PUA for dumped women who regret after their decisions...

I don't feel sorry for such women, their problem - for sure not the problem for MGTOW.

No, what PUAs are doing with women is very evil because they are discarding those women. It is not that women naturally seek PUA. Is this where your mind is stuck? PUAs use psychological manipulation to get what they want from women they have no intention of marrying/wifing.



Look at it this way:

1. There are men who women like and they will sleep with those men freely. Those men don't have to lie, use tricks or manipulate because women want them for them. These are the natural players. Women will actively pursue these men.
2a. Then there are the men who women do not automatically want. These men learn psychology to get inside women's minds.
2b. Not only are these men psychologically manipulating women into sleeping with them (men they ordinarily would not sleep with), these men are also using those women and discarding them in serial "pump and dump" fashion.

Now is 2 more grievous than 1? To me definitely. In number one the woman chose the man SHE WANTED. With the second, it is because she was manipulated into doing it by a man whose only intention was to use her and to discard her immediately after. She would not have gone with him at all, if he had not employed psychological warfare against her.

But because you have neither a soul or a true sense of morality, these concepts are outside your comprehension.

The only good part about PUA is that they have learned that men can lead women easily (something you suckers still don't know). The problem is they abuse that authority.

I think your right about PUA behaviour being morally wrong, but I hate your blindness to women's responsibility. You act as if they are just sheep to be herded and all they need is a strong man to keep them in line. You also do not mention any talk about how women in their social circles when no men are around, talk about manipulating them day & night.

You do realize that if these women were just innocent little snow flakes getting taken advantage of from men, men would of never have needed PUA or MGTOW in the first place right?

As I can see that your a Christian from your posts, you know that at the end of Times, God is going to judge all women according to their works. Simply meaning this: God expects women to have 100% accountability for their actions. So should you.

Well okay, it wasn't about female morality but about MGTOW vs PUA. I totally agree with you though. Women are responsible for their actions, 100%. I did not mean to imply otherwise.

They are still accountable for their actions of fornication or any other sin before God. They are not exempt. It doesn't matter what I think on that topic. That's between them and God. What I was saying is, it is wrong for a PUA who just wants to use people who ordinarily wouldn't want him to go about psychologically manipulating women into sleeping with him. If the woman falls for the man's "charms", she is still responsible for any acts of fornication, naturally. But still, if she had not been psychologically manipulated by some PUA, she might not have fornicated with him to begin with, seeing as he needed to use them to get her into bed.

I was not making any comments regarding fornication or any violation of the law in those terms. What I was saying is, it is wrong to manipulate someone into sleeping with you who ordinarily wouldn't sleep with you. It is double wrong to then dump that person like yesterday's newspaper.

Besides, you can't even say the women they are doing these things to are evil. We don't and even those PUAs probably don't know those women's histories. They could be ruining some other men's future wives with their PUA psychological tactics. Ever think of that? I hope we all don't have the standard that once a woman has had even one penis inside her that she's then only worthy of the gutter.

You can't even say that the women who PUAs target are the same ones who use and teach other women how to manipulate men. And even if they were, it still doesn't make it just. It's not the PUAs' job to issue punishment to whores in this life.

[Adama]

You men here only see things through your individual lens and other perspectives are invisible to you.

If a woman sleeps with a man right away, it doesn't necessarily means she's a whore. Lots of guys are going around promising relationships with women and dumping them as soon as the act is done. That's not fair either. Many of those women consented to having intercourse in the hopes of having a continued relationship, not with the intention of being used as a toy for one night. In other words, sometimes the woman really wants the man, but the man only wants to have sex, and that sex only one time, and then he dumps her.

Do I really have to explain this to you guys?

Now some women actively choose to go with a guy for one night and then nothing else. Those are real whores, but most women expect to have a relationship with a man if she's had sex with him.

It is worse when a woman had no intention of sleeping with a man, but because that man knew the right psychological buttons to press, she sleeps with him, when otherwise she would not have. At that point, the man should enter into a relationship with that woman, since they have had sex.

To trick a woman into sex and then to dump her is just plain evil. Just like you would say a woman who married a man for his money and then leaves when he's broke is a gold digging skank. You wouldn't want her to justify that by saying men are pigs. Are you serious?

[Nomad]

MGTOW's coping strategy is to curl up in a ball under the bed while everyone else goes on with life.
PUA is to go out, make a fool of themselves, and use Jedi mind tricks on unwilling and unsuspecting women to get them into bed, and then discard them like trash.

Unwilling or not, these women are above the age of consent, often adults and therefore responsible for their actions.

If they give consent and go with such guys and are dumped after, it's their problem, and nobody's else problem.
What else did they expect if they prefer PUA, bad boys and similar fuckers for a one-night-stand and ignore totally other men who are still single, honest but inexperienced.

I am not supportive to PUA, not at all - but you cannot blame men using PUA for dumped women who regret after their decisions...

I don't feel sorry for such women, their problem - for sure not the problem for MGTOW.

No, what PUAs are doing with women is very evil because they are discarding those women. It is not that women naturally seek PUA. Is this where your mind is stuck? PUAs use psychological manipulation to get what they want from women they have no intention of marrying/wifing.



Look at it this way:

1. There are men who women like and they will sleep with those men freely. Those men don't have to lie, use tricks or manipulate because women want them for them. These are the natural players. Women will actively pursue these men.
2a. Then there are the men who women do not automatically want. These men learn psychology to get inside women's minds.
2b. Not only are these men psychologically manipulating women into sleeping with them (men they ordinarily would not sleep with), these men are also using those women and discarding them in serial "pump and dump" fashion.

Now is 2 more grievous than 1? To me definitely. In number one the woman chose the man SHE WANTED. With the second, it is because she was manipulated into doing it by a man whose only intention was to use her and to discard her immediately after. She would not have gone with him at all, if he had not employed psychological warfare against her.

But because you have neither a soul or a true sense of morality, these concepts are outside your comprehension.

The only good part about PUA is that they have learned that men can lead women easily (something you suckers still don't know). The problem is they abuse that authority.

I think your right about PUA behaviour being morally wrong, but I hate your blindness to women's responsibility. You act as if they are just sheep to be herded and all they need is a strong man to keep them in line. You also do not mention any talk about how women in their social circles when no men are around, talk about manipulating them day & night.

You do realize that if these women were just innocent little snow flakes getting taken advantage of from men, men would of never have needed PUA or MGTOW in the first place right?

As I can see that your a Christian from your posts, you know that at the end of Times, God is going to judge all women according to their works. Simply meaning this: God expects women to have 100% accountability for their actions. So should you.

Well okay, it wasn't about female morality but about MGTOW vs PUA. I totally agree with you though. Women are responsible for their actions, 100%. I did not mean to imply otherwise.

They are still accountable for their actions of fornication or any other sin before God. They are not exempt. It doesn't matter what I think on that topic. That's between them and God. What I was saying is, it is wrong for a PUA who just wants to use people who ordinarily wouldn't want him to go about psychologically manipulating women into sleeping with him. If the woman falls for the man's "charms", she is still responsible for any acts of fornication, naturally. But still, if she had not been psychologically manipulated by some PUA, she might not have fornicated with him to begin with, seeing as he needed to use them to get her into bed.

I was not making any comments regarding fornication or any violation of the law in those terms. What I was saying is, it is wrong to manipulate someone into sleeping with you who ordinarily wouldn't sleep with you. It is double wrong to then dump that person like yesterday's newspaper.

Besides, you can't even say the women they are doing these things to are evil. We don't and even those PUAs probably don't know those women's histories. They could be ruining some other men's future wives with their PUA psychological tactics. Ever think of that? I hope we all don't have the standard that once a woman has had even one penis inside her that she's then only worthy of the gutter.

You can't even say that the women who PUAs target are the same ones who use and teach other women how to manipulate men. And even if they were, it still doesn't make it just. It's not the PUAs' job to issue punishment to whores in this life.

But were not really debating that between me and you. That is something we both already agree on. I just don't agree with giving women free passes because their women. I think the PUA lifestyle is hedonistic living and ultimately won't lead to one's happiness.

Also on top of that, its true that a man cannot know a woman's history, but women know there are players out there that only want to get into their pants. Women are not stupid in regards to their sexuality, they more often than not manipulate men with it.

I'm not giving PUA's a pass, but i'm not giving women one either.

[Adama]

I think your right about PUA behaviour being morally wrong, but I hate your blindness to women's responsibility. You act as if they are just sheep to be herded and all they need is a strong man to keep them in line. You also do not mention any talk about how women in their social circles when no men are around, talk about manipulating them day & night.

You do realize that if these women were just innocent little snow flakes getting taken advantage of from men, men would of never have needed PUA or MGTOW in the first place right?

As I can see that your a Christian from your posts, you know that at the end of Times, God is going to judge all women according to their works. Simply meaning this: God expects women to have 100% accountability for their actions. So should you.

Well okay, it wasn't about female morality but about MGTOW vs PUA. I totally agree with you though. Women are responsible for their actions, 100%. I did not mean to imply otherwise.

They are still accountable for their actions of fornication or any other sin before God. They are not exempt. It doesn't matter what I think on that topic. That's between them and God. What I was saying is, it is wrong for a PUA who just wants to use people who ordinarily wouldn't want him to go about psychologically manipulating women into sleeping with him. If the woman falls for the man's "charms", she is still responsible for any acts of fornication, naturally. But still, if she had not been psychologically manipulated by some PUA, she might not have fornicated with him to begin with, seeing as he needed to use them to get her into bed.

I was not making any comments regarding fornication or any violation of the law in those terms. What I was saying is, it is wrong to manipulate someone into sleeping with you who ordinarily wouldn't sleep with you. It is double wrong to then dump that person like yesterday's newspaper.

Besides, you can't even say the women they are doing these things to are evil. We don't and even those PUAs probably don't know those women's histories. They could be ruining some other men's future wives with their PUA psychological tactics. Ever think of that? I hope we all don't have the standard that once a woman has had even one penis inside her that she's then only worthy of the gutter.

You can't even say that the women who PUAs target are the same ones who use and teach other women how to manipulate men. And even if they were, it still doesn't make it just. It's not the PUAs' job to issue punishment to whores in this life.

But were not really debating that between me and you. That is something we both already agree on. I just don't agree with giving women free passes because their women. I think the PUA lifestyle is hedonistic living and ultimately won't lead to one's happiness.

Also on top of that, its true that a man cannot know a woman's history, but women know there are players out there that only want to get into their pants. Women are not stupid in regards to their sexuality, they more often than not manipulate men with it.

I'm not giving PUA's a pass, but i'm not giving women one either.

You don't remember the topic here. The topic is MGTOW vs PUA. The topic is not PUA vs women. This is not about women at all. This is about the unethical behavior of PUAs towards other PEOPLE. It is unethical to use someone, man or woman, whoever is doing it.

Now if the topic were about female manipulative tactics, then you could bet I would be listing them according to my knowledge of them rather than pointing the fingers at PUAs or MGTOWs. Would it make sense to bring up the faults of women in a thread about PUAs and MGTOWs? No, it does not, because it isn't relevant to the topic. The topic is MGTOW vs PUA, not PUA vs women.

You're like a reverse feminist looking for offense under every rock. You need to wake up from your masculine social justice nonsense. Just because I was listing the crimes of PUA, it in no way absolves women. Besides that, what women are doing is on them. I don't need to call them out on anything. God knows what they are doing. You act like a list of female crimes must be listed any time any man anywhere is accused of a crime against any woman. That is reverse feminism. Wake up. Also, you equate one woman with having committed a crime against men as every woman everywhere having committed that same crime and worthy of punishment at the hands of any man. That is some sick social justice.

And I never gave women free passes anywhere. In fact, in every place I said they are accountable. Go back and re-read because that is what I have stated everywhere. Once again, people only perceive that which they want to perceive. So busy looking for social justice for the man that you can't even see that I am not even guilty of the crime you've accused me of. I hope you never serve on anyone's jury.

[Nomad]

Now if the topic were about female manipulative tactics, then you could bet I would be listing them according to my knowledge of them rather than pointing the fingers at PUAs or MGTOWs. Would it make sense to bring up the faults of women in a thread about PUAs and MGTOWs? No, it does not, because it isn't relevant to the topic. The topic is MGTOW vs PUA, not PUA vs women.

No, what PUAs are doing with women is very evil because they are discarding those women. It is not that women naturally seek PUA. Is this where your mind is stuck? PUAs use psychological manipulation to get what they want from women they have no intention of marrying/wifing.

This was your original quote I decided to respond to. No mention of MGTOW in it so I didn't bother to write about MGTOW.

You're like a reverse feminist looking for offense under every rock. You need to wake up from your masculine social justice nonsense. Just because I was listing the crimes of PUA, it in no way absolves women. Besides that, what women are doing is on them. I don't need to call them out on anything. God knows what they are doing. You act like a list of female crimes must be listed any time any man anywhere is accused of a crime against any woman. That is reverse feminism.

I only do that because the general population does not bother to take the time to see both sides. Generally the man is accused and the women get off scott free from their actions, and yes I am a MGTOW, so I think in those terms. If you want to label it as "reverse feminism", thats your business. I just hold to the standard of holding women accountable too and not just play the "men are bad" card all the time. If men's lives and issues were 10% talked about and discussed as women's lives are, then I wouldn't need to play devils advocate so much.

Wake up. Also, you equate one woman with having committed a crime against men as every woman everywhere having committed that same crime and worthy of punishment at the hands of any man. That is some sick social justice.

You talk about people perceiving things, where did I say that? I didn't. You just presumed that about me and perhaps all MGTOW's in general. If you think otherwise, you can show me evidence that I believe and said that.

And I never gave women free passes anywhere. In fact, in every place I said they are accountable. Go back and re-read because that is what I have stated everywhere. Once again, people only perceive that which they want to perceive. So busy looking for social justice for the man that you can't even see that I am not even guilty of the crime you've accused me of. I hope you never serve on anyone's jury.

You believe women should be submissive to men. If you really believe that, then you hold the belief that men are more accountable of their actions than women. Meaning men are the more responsible party. Which then leads into women becoming a protected class because men need to protect the weaker submissive party. So therefor, when women do crimes, yes, its her fault, but somewhere around her, a man is to blame for bad leadership.

Another words, if you just happen to be on a jury, some innocent man would probably have to "take a bullet" for a guilty lady that got into trouble, because its what "men do". I find that sick social 'justice'.

[Adama]

You're a prime example of why MGTOW is bad.

[Yohan]

You're a prime example of why MGTOW is bad.

Sometimes I think, Adama is a troll - he offers nothing but some copy/paste from the Bible.
I think, he is a rather misguided lonely individual with nobody next to him far away from the reality of daily life.

He is against MGTOW, because they do not approach certain women.
He is against PUA because they approach women too much - basically whatever you do as a man with women, Adama is against it.

Adult women who agree for sex with men and gave their full consent to go ahead are considered to be children in his mindset, they are not responsible for their decision, they are helpless victims.

If you listen to Adama and you take his teachings seriously you will feel ashamed of yourself as a straight man and father, praying for forgiveness.

I often wonder why Adama is writing comments for this forum - this is a forum for living abroad, looking for a foreign wife, exploring different countries, meet different people, different culture, different languages, different religions...

[Yohan]

If a woman sleeps with a man right away, it doesn't necessarily means she's a whore. Lots of guys are going around promising relationships with women and dumping them as soon as the act is done.
.....
sometimes the woman really wants the man, but the man only wants to have sex, and that sex only one time, and then he dumps her.

I noticed you said 'sometimes', what does this mean? Sounds to me more the exemption, for sure the majority of women are not like that.

How is this different with men who are badly treated by women?

How many women are going around promising a relationship with a man who really wants to have a relationship with this woman, and she sleeps one time with him and then she dumps HIM. Women are often treating men like a piece of shit. Who cares about them?
Works both ways, I would say.

Now some women actively choose to go with a guy for one night and then nothing else. Those are real whores, but most women expect to have a relationship with a man if she's had sex with him.


It is worse when a woman had no intention of sleeping with a man, but because that man knew the right psychological buttons to press, she sleeps with him, when otherwise she would not have....

Are you dreaming? What nonsense are you writing? 'most women expect to have a relationship with a man if she's had sex with him' ???!!!

Most Western women are into men for sex for short-time and never see that boy again, many women have multiple boyfriends, just use one and if something is wrong (no money or gifts or travel etc.) away in the garbage, like a broken tool. The next man is already lining up...Women around 25 y/o might have sex with more than 100 men already.

And yes, many women prefer braggarts like PUA, or bad boys fresh released from jail as they offer an 'exciting life-style' which ordinary honest men cannot.

We also have to mention that the wallet of the man plays a major role too, this cannot be denied.

[The_Adventurer]

The world is filled with lazy people who are not making use of all the options at their disposal. It is easier to be lazy, after all. Or, in the words of Yohan and others: to be "risk-averse". The problem is, however, that all things worth doing in life are always the things that may come at a price. The things that involve some degree of risk. The only way to avoid it all, is to avoid living life altogether. Now some men may kid themselves, into believing they are doing the smartest thing by avoiding life. And maybe, from a technical point of view, they are. But me, I like to live life and enjoy it too.

So based on this, and other posts in this thread, life is all about, and only about, women? Particularly white western women, since MGTOW is primarily a western thing.

A man could build a successful company, get rich, get his own private jet. He could travel the world, learn languages, practice martial arts, get many black belts. He could study and meditate in amazing temples around the globe. He could create charities, libraries and homes for the poor. BUT he is not living unless he gets involved with white western women. He is still avoiding life.

"The problem is, however, that all things worth doing in life are always the things that may come at a price."

So American women, being the greatest risk, must be the best!

[yick]

The world is filled with lazy people who are not making use of all the options at their disposal. It is easier to be lazy, after all. Or, in the words of Yohan and others: to be "risk-averse". The problem is, however, that all things worth doing in life are always the things that may come at a price. The things that involve some degree of risk. The only way to avoid it all, is to avoid living life altogether. Now some men may kid themselves, into believing they are doing the smartest thing by avoiding life. And maybe, from a technical point of view, they are. But me, I like to live life and enjoy it too.

So based on this, and other posts in this thread, life is all about, and only about, women? Particularly white western women, since MGTOW is primarily a western thing.

A man could build a successful company, get rich, get his own private jet. He could travel the world, learn languages, practice martial arts, get many black belts. He could study and meditate in amazing temples around the globe. He could create charities, libraries and homes for the poor. BUT he is not living unless he gets involved with white western women. He is still avoiding life.

"The problem is, however, that all things worth doing in life are always the things that may come at a price."

So American women, being the greatest risk, must be the best!

Bloody good post!!

[Nomad]

You're a prime example of why MGTOW is bad.

Well I guess I won the debate. You couldn't answer simple honest statements and your defence here is horrible. I could just as easily say this:

You're a prime example of why Christianity is bad.

Name calling doesn't get you anywhere.

Oh and by the way.. I'm a Christian who strongly believes in MGTOW while your one who opposes it. I just find that interesting that you care so little for the suffering of men in favor of pestalizing women.

[Adama]

You believe women should be submissive to men. If you really believe that, then you hold the belief that men are more accountable of their actions than women. Meaning men are the more responsible party. Which then leads into women becoming a protected class because men need to protect the weaker submissive party. So therefor, when women do crimes, yes, its her fault, but somewhere around her, a man is to blame for bad leadership.

Another words, if you just happen to be on a jury, some innocent man would probably have to "take a bullet" for a guilty lady that got into trouble, because its what "men do". I find that sick social 'justice'.

No, this is complete nonsense and only serves to demonstrate how your MGTOW belief system has ruined you. I hope one day you let go of it before it is too late, while you still have youth, so that you have a chance at a normal life.

I've said none of those things which you even accuse me of. And you don't even realize how your callousness towards women is wrong. You say that some women has shared techniques on how to manipulate men. I say that is true, but it isnt for men to punish women for that, but for God to attend to. Also you can't hold random women responsible for what you suspect other women have done.

Can't you see that? No, of course not, because you're a MGTOW. So sad.

[Adama]

You're a prime example of why MGTOW is bad.

Well I guess I won the debate. You couldn't answer simple honest statements and your defence here is horrible. I could just as easily say this:

You're a prime example of why Christianity is bad.

Name calling doesn't get you anywhere.

Oh and by the way.. I'm a Christian who strongly believes in MGTOW while your one who opposes it. I just find that interesting that you care so little for the suffering of men in favor of pestalizing women.

Don't write back to me, ever. I have never put women on a pedestal but instead insist that they know their place, which is in the subordinate position. That is the opposite of putting women on a pedestal.

My only point is that it is wrong to manipulate women into bed and then to dump them. That is a crime.

It is also a crime for women to fornicate. As far as I know though, this thread was about the pros and cons of MGTOW and PUA, not about women. PUAs are committing crimes against other people, who happen to be women. You just hate all women.

You have crossed the line with insulting my Christianity in favor of MGTOW. One does not imply or even relate to the other. You should have known better than to even think along the lines that my criticism of PUA or MGTOW have anything to do with Christianity or Our God. This is also irrelevant, which you can't even see.

Christianity has nothing to do with MGTOW, as you should easily recognize from all the atheists and God-haters in the group.

Your mind needs some serious help because it doesn't function right.