Why are so many middle aged white dudes....messed up?

[Rygar1]

Hey all,

This is just something that has been bothering me for a while, and while there are no hard and fast rules here, I speak in terms of generalities. I myself am a white dude, though not quite middle aged(38), but its just something I've noticed in my own dad, as well as others, enough that a pattern starts to emerge.

I just...can't put a finger on it...but..there's just something so unsettling about many members of this demographic, even a few guys on this forum. They seem friendly, sincere, fairly intelligent, successful, and let's face it, well sexed. But, just..."off" in some vague way. Too traditional, too stiff. Weird.. many of these guys seem "afraid of their own shadows" or something. The hypocrisy of this demographic is notoriously big, as well. My dad going to church every week and praying, then has a stack of porno under his bed, and Condoms lying around the house. Women are guilty of this too I suppose, like a teacher in high school would scold a kid for drawing di cks on a chalkboard, but then goes home and gets fu cked like a ragdoll 4 times a week by some dude at a bar, and has a painkiller addiction. It's not often, but still.

Mr Man, Shemp, Yick, and others may be able to shed some light on this.

Thank you,
Rygar

[Shemp]

Since you mentioned me, I'll respond. "When the whole world is going crazy, the important thing is to stay sane yourself", or something of the sort. I don't care what is going on in other people's heads, except to the extent this helps me get what I want from them and anticipate and protect myself from trouble they might cause me. Also, your own mind is by itself a vast empire. Focus on exploring and controlling that empire rather than wasting too much time on what is inside other people's minds.

[Rygar1]

Since you mentioned me, I'll respond. "When the whole world is going crazy, the important thing is to stay sane yourself", or something of the sort. I don't care what is going on in other people's heads, except to the extent this helps me get what I want from them and anticipate and protect myself from trouble they might cause me. Also, your own mind is by itself a vast empire. Focus on exploring and controlling that empire rather than wasting too much time on what is inside other people's minds.

See, that just sorta proves my point, at least part of what you wrote. Your reply starts off reasonable enough, then spirals into ..."except to the extent this helps me get what I want from them..." I don't know if that was your intention, but I think most people would say that's kinda manipulative sounding. What do want from them? Why? I understand people's personalities change with age, but..still. many of these guys are so...judgmental as well. My dad was so phony...like, he would say others were phony, then went to church every week but looked at porn and cheated. THATS PHONY!

The second part of your reply is good. We shouldn't, for the most part, care about what others do or don't do. That's their business. At least in theory. I haven't exactly made it a secret that I occasionally feel a little insecure about my relative lack of sexual experience, and comparing myself, unfavorably to others. I'm working on it. Social media exacerbates this effect. But it's still very real. People are getting laid a lot and im not and that's that. What are the reasons? Who knows? Many probably. It's not so much about trying to acquire some secret "hack" to get laid(or other things) but about shedding beliefs and actions that hinder it. Or something

[Shemp]

....then spirals into ..."except to the extent this helps me get what I want from them..." I don't know if that was your intention, but I think most people would say that's kinda manipulative sounding. What do want from them? Why?

Think logically about what I wrote. If I go into a restaurant and want good service, then I need to understand what the waiter is thinking, otherwise I might annoy him/her and fail to get the service I want. If a policeman stops and asks questions, I need to understand what he/she is thinking so as to act appropriately and avoid escalating the situation. Nothing manipulative, it's ordinary social sense and you're something of an idiot for thinking otherwise. Which gets back to your OP: you worry too much about what other people think, which in turn is probably twisted to why you are not in touch with your own desires.

[kangarunner]

Why are so many middle aged white dudes....messed up?

One thing I notice here in Vietnam is the men here all get along with each other. For the most part. Even if they're strangers. In every city, at night, you'll see the locals all out at those restaurants and they'll sit together at tables outside and eat, drink, and laugh together.

I've even been invited to join a group a few times. One time a Vietnamese guy younger than me just asked me for my WhatsApp. Then we went to this restaurant with his coworker and we drank beer there. I'm friends with him on Facebook now.

This is the benefits of a culture that focuses on collectivism. It leads to social cohesion and social harmony.

The problem with America is it takes individualism too far. People focus on themselves and their own circle and then don't give a shit about anyone else.

That eventually leads to problems of isolation, self-segregation, distrust, and increasing dividedness among people in America.

When white men from America go abroad for the first time, it's a huge eye-opening experience. You'll hear stories of expats say that they carried a lot of painful trauma and baggage with them to Asia and then over time they became calmer.

To answer your question, I think that it's America that "messes them up".

America can truly f**k someone in the ass and leave a lot of trauma for the years or the rest of their life.

America is a system that extracts all the value from a human and then spits them out.

It's not viable to be just an average guy in America. Those days are over.

No one comes out of America unscathed.

[kangarunner]

That whole country is mentally ill. Look at how people behave. They get in their vehicle and they lock the door and they look out at everyone else with eyes that despise others.

Despise is the only word you need to know about the social environment in America. Despise.

I've been abroad since early 2016. That was when I was 30 years old. I'm forever grateful I didn't stay in the US much longer. I would have been plugged in and may have never unplugged to gain consciousness and global awareness of free cultures in the world.

[Lucas88]

This is just something that has been bothering me for a while, and while there are no hard and fast rules here, I speak in terms of generalities. I myself am a white dude, though not quite middle aged(38), but its just something I've noticed in my own dad, as well as others, enough that a pattern starts to emerge.

I just...can't put a finger on it...but..there's just something so unsettling about many members of this demographic, even a few guys on this forum. They seem friendly, sincere, fairly intelligent, successful, and let's face it, well sexed. But, just..."off" in some vague way. Too traditional, too stiff. Weird.. many of these guys seem "afraid of their own shadows" or something. The hypocrisy of this demographic is notoriously big, as well. My dad going to church every week and praying, then has a stack of porno under his bed, and Condoms lying around the house. Women are guilty of this too I suppose, like a teacher in high school would scold a kid for drawing di cks on a chalkboard, but then goes home and gets fu cked like a ragdoll 4 times a week by some dude at a bar, and has a painkiller addiction. It's not often, but still.

What made those people behave hypocritically? Society.

Socially integrated adults are expected to conform to a certain predefined set of social norms. This might include religious life (depending on the community), monogamy, and abstention from culturally disapproved vices such as pornography, prostitution and illegal drugs.

However, people at the same time have their own needs which often contradict social norms — needs that must be fulfilled to keep them relatively sane and allow them to get through their day-to-day lives characterized by humdrum routine and stressful demands.

So this is why you see people like your dad who go to church yet have hidden porn stashes, teachers who chastise kids for drawing dicks on the chalkboard in the name of public decency while engaging in promiscuous behavior in private, and men who project the outward image of a typical conservative husband when out in public while sneaking off to see prostitutes to fulfil sexual needs that aren't being fulfilled by their sexless or lackluster marriage.

This type of behavior — which some might consider "hypocrisy" — is especially common in highly moralistic cultures and generations.

I think that those who see the world through a moralistic lens come out on the other side with a distorted understanding of human action — they observe a person say one thing while doing another and then conclude that that person is in some way "bad" due to a failure to live up to some arbitrary and quite frankly imaginary behavioral standard.

In reality, many if not most people are primarily motivated by practical goals and the fulfillment of highly idiosyncratic personal needs while only giving lip service to established social norms for the purpose of not causing problems for themselves or their reputation. Even though it may seem hypocritical, this approach makes sense when you consider that many such people simply want to be left alone or that their livelihood might be on the line in the event of nonconformity.

[kangarunner]

What made those people behave hypocritically? Society.

Socially integrated adults are expected to conform to a certain predefined set of social norms. This might include religious life (depending on the community), monogamy, and abstention from culturally disapproved vices such as pornography, prostitution and illegal drugs.

However, people at the same time have their own needs which often contradict social norms — needs that must be fulfilled to keep them relatively sane and allow them to get through their day-to-day lives characterized by humdrum routine and stressful demands.

So this is why you see people like your dad who go to church yet have hidden porn stashes, teachers who chastise kids for drawing dicks on the chalkboard in the name of public decency while engaging in promiscuous behavior in private, and men who project the outward image of a typical conservative husband when out in public while sneaking off to see prostitutes to fulfil sexual needs that aren't being fulfilled by their sexless or lackluster marriage.

This type of behavior — which some might consider "hypocrisy" — is especially common in highly moralistic cultures and generations.

I think that those who see the world through a moralistic lens come out on the other side with a distorted understanding of human action — they observe a person say one thing while doing another and then conclude that that person is in some way "bad" due to a failure to live up to some arbitrary and quite frankly imaginary behavioral standard.

In reality, many if not most people are primarily motivated by practical goals and the fulfillment of highly idiosyncratic personal needs while only giving lip service to established social norms for the purpose of not causing problems for themselves or their reputation. Even though it may seem hypocritical, this approach makes sense when you consider that many such people simply want to be left alone or that their livelihood might be on the line in the event of nonconformity.

ChatGPT?

[Lucas88]

ChatGPT?

Nope, that's how I always write.

[kangarunner]

ChatGPT?

Nope, that's how I always write.

If you can write that well, then why are you even on this forum? Don't you have better things to do?

[Lucas88]

If you can write that well, then why are you even on this forum? Don't you have better things to do?

Yeah, probably. Lol!

Why am I even on this forum? Well, you probably know the answer yourself. HA is like a black hole which, no matter how much you try to escape, will always pull you back towards its center of mass.

I tried to make a run for it last year but Winston kept begging for me to come back. Then a few months ago I somehow got roped back here again and I find myself checking out the most recent threads every day and even participating. I guess HA is a bit like a crack addiction.

Some people have been here for more than a decade and just don't know how to let go.

[Rygar1]

....then spirals into ..."except to the extent this helps me get what I want from them..." I don't know if that was your intention, but I think most people would say that's kinda manipulative sounding. What do want from them? Why?

Think logically about what I wrote. If I go into a restaurant and want good service, then I need to understand what the waiter is thinking, otherwise I might annoy him/her and fail to get the service I want. If a policeman stops and asks questions, I need to understand what he/she is thinking so as to act appropriately and avoid escalating the situation. Nothing manipulative, it's ordinary social sense and you're something of an idiot for thinking otherwise. Which gets back to your OP: you worry too much about what other people think, which in turn is probably twisted to why you are not in touch with your own desires.

You cant ever REALLY TRULY know what someone else is thinking. You can surmise based on body language, speech, tone of voice, facial expressions, etc..but can't be certain. Once again, I think you may have completely misunderstood my intentions about your behavior(and others) which has happened alot in my life. Did you assume based on my OP that i was referring to YOU as messed up? Well, I wasn't. I just named you and others because you're of the same demographic. You can call me names all you want, I dont really care. If you give good advice(and you have...at times) I take it and move on. Eat the fish and spit out the bones.

I guess we can philosophizing about this "thinkingz" problem of mine all day long. But the ginormous question remains: How do change it? How? I do the following:

1. Physical exercise every day
2. Breathwork practices.
3. Fairly good diet
4. Some supplements (b complex, vit d)

But I'm still in the same headspace...year after year..after year. It seems insurmountable.

[Rygar1]

Why are so many middle aged white dudes....messed up?

One thing I notice here in Vietnam is the men here all get along with each other. For the most part. Even if they're strangers. In every city, at night, you'll see the locals all out at those restaurants and they'll sit together at tables outside and eat, drink, and laugh together.

I've even been invited to join a group a few times. One time a Vietnamese guy younger than me just asked me for my WhatsApp. Then we went to this restaurant with his coworker and we drank beer there. I'm friends with him on Facebook now.

This is the benefits of a culture that focuses on collectivism. It leads to social cohesion and social harmony.

The problem with America is it takes individualism too far. People focus on themselves and their own circle and then don't give a shit about anyone else.

That eventually leads to problems of isolation, self-segregation, distrust, and increasing dividedness among people in America.

When white men from America go abroad for the first time, it's a huge eye-opening experience. You'll hear stories of expats say that they carried a lot of painful trauma and baggage with them to Asia and then over time they became calmer.

To answer your question, I think that it's America that "messes them up".

America can truly f**k someone in the ass and leave a lot of trauma for the years or the rest of their life.

America is a system that extracts all the value from a human and then spits them out.

It's not viable to be just an average guy in America. Those days are over.

No one comes out of America unscathed.

Thank you for that insightful reply. I've felt this way for year, and am finally coming to grips with it. It's very noticeable.

Maybe I'm a little too harsh on middle aged white dudes, after all. They may have been mislabeled as creepy weirdos for no good reason. Yes, I really do get the impression people despise others some reason. I dunno why. I guess they have problems in their personal lives and are taking it out on everyone else. Middle aged white dudes tend to be passive, meek and non confrontational, so they're an easy target.

[Rygar1]

This is just something that has been bothering me for a while, and while there are no hard and fast rules here, I speak in terms of generalities. I myself am a white dude, though not quite middle aged(38), but its just something I've noticed in my own dad, as well as others, enough that a pattern starts to emerge.

I just...can't put a finger on it...but..there's just something so unsettling about many members of this demographic, even a few guys on this forum. They seem friendly, sincere, fairly intelligent, successful, and let's face it, well sexed. But, just..."off" in some vague way. Too traditional, too stiff. Weird.. many of these guys seem "afraid of their own shadows" or something. The hypocrisy of this demographic is notoriously big, as well. My dad going to church every week and praying, then has a stack of porno under his bed, and Condoms lying around the house. Women are guilty of this too I suppose, like a teacher in high school would scold a kid for drawing di cks on a chalkboard, but then goes home and gets fu cked like a ragdoll 4 times a week by some dude at a bar, and has a painkiller addiction. It's not often, but still.

What made those people behave hypocritically? Society.

Socially integrated adults are expected to conform to a certain predefined set of social norms. This might include religious life (depending on the community), monogamy, and abstention from culturally disapproved vices such as pornography, prostitution and illegal drugs.

However, people at the same time have their own needs which often contradict social norms — needs that must be fulfilled to keep them relatively sane and allow them to get through their day-to-day lives characterized by humdrum routine and stressful demands.

So this is why you see people like your dad who go to church yet have hidden porn stashes, teachers who chastise kids for drawing dicks on the chalkboard in the name of public decency while engaging in promiscuous behavior in private, and men who project the outward image of a typical conservative husband when out in public while sneaking off to see prostitutes to fulfil sexual needs that aren't being fulfilled by their sexless or lackluster marriage.

This type of behavior — which some might consider "hypocrisy" — is especially common in highly moralistic cultures and generations.

I think that those who see the world through a moralistic lens come out on the other side with a distorted understanding of human action — they observe a person say one thing while doing another and then conclude that that person is in some way "bad" due to a failure to live up to some arbitrary and quite frankly imaginary behavioral standard.

In reality, many if not most people are primarily motivated by practical goals and the fulfillment of highly idiosyncratic personal needs while only giving lip service to established social norms for the purpose of not causing problems for themselves or their reputation. Even though it may seem hypocritical, this approach makes sense when you consider that many such people simply want to be left alone or that their livelihood might be on the line in the event of nonconformity.

Wow, that was incredibly insightful. There were some Freudian overtones there about the tug of war between the individual and society(individuals want thier own vices, society wants them to conform)I think this has a.ways existed to some extent, especially in the suburbs, but with all the social media nowadays, it's been amped up to another level. "Miracle baby number three" "blessed mama". Meanwhile its like 3 kids by 3 different dads, who probably has a body count of 20 or more. Pathetic. Nauseating. Phony.

Do you think the internal struggle between the two opposing forces causes many middle aged white dudes to give that messes up vibe?

[Lucas88]

Do you think the internal struggle between the two opposing forces causes many middle aged white dudes to give that messes up vibe?

Yes, and I think you can see this exemplified perfectly in the 1999 movie American Beauty.

The Burnhams do everything they can to keep up the appearance of a perfect middle-class American family with a picket fence, but Lester is tired of his soul-killing cubicle job where he's routinely treated like shit as well as his boring sexless marriage to his bitch wife Carolyn and develops an appetite for the free-spirited fun of his youth, starts smoking highly potent marijuana with the nonconformist neighbor, and lusts after his daughter's cheerleader friend Angela Hayes, while Carolyn is getting boned by her professional rival Buddy.

The couple is messed up due to an opposition between middle-class American social expectations and their true desires, to the point where they both lose control and go completely off the rails, with Lester almost banging his daughter's teenage friend and Carolyn with a pistol in hand premeditating her husband's murder.

The family next door? Even worse. A closeted homosexual US Army coronel who lusts after men while teaching others to be homophobic, a deeply dissatisfied housewife who pretends to be happy for her family's sake, and their drug dealer son.