Warning! Free speech does NOT mean zero behavior standards!

[Winston]

Just a heads up to you all and a warning to some of you here:

Our free speech policy here does NOT mean that unlimited bad behavior, rudeness and tactlessness is allowed. It does not mean that there are zero standards of behavior here. Those who think it does are abusing free speech. So please don't get that idea. Just because we are very open here about free speech does NOT mean that anyone is free to abuse it. There's got to be some standards of behavior here within reason. It's a moral obligation as well.

For example, Repatriate tends to go over the line with his extreme mockery sometimes. It's ok to say that I'm fat or overweight. But he rubs it with extreme insults, colorful words and descriptions, all in a mean-spirited manner designed to inflate and exaggerate his insults for maximum effect.

That's very insensitive and mean-spirited for sure. Especially when it's directed at someone who's never wronged him.

Even some of our veteran members like Rock show tactless behavior and bad people skills sometimes. People like him have personality defects and it shows in their posts. For example, just because I get scammed by extreme pushiness and aggressiveness under pressure, and given no time to think, does NOT mean that I deserve to be ridiculed and blamed for that. People like him do not get it, do not see the big picture, and are not sensitive about such situations.

Important point: If a man is stressed and angry, it is NOT wise to make things worse by mocking him and ridiculing him (like Repatriate and Rock did). Only people with low EQ, bad people skills, and a lack of tact and sensitivity (like Repatriate and Rock) would do such a thing. Mature adults with good sense do not do that. Think about it.

Other forum moderators do not take such mean-spirited insults. So why should I?

We need to enforce some standards of civility here. Extreme bad behavior and rude, insensitive, tactless behavior should not be allowed without penalty. There has to be some kind of boundary when it comes to that.

Tact is an important part of having people skills. And that's true here too.

There is a difference between constructive criticism and nasty ridicule and insults that are over the top and cross the line. Free speech does not mean anything goes. Some of you are abusing our free speech policy.

Therefore, the moderators here reserve the right to ban or issue warnings at their discretion when such boundaries of civility are transgressed repeatedly.

Sometimes insults are deserved when the person's behavior has earned it. Sometimes they are not. The ones that are done in a mean-spirited manner (as Repatriate often does) are distasteful and over the line.

Most people are sensitive in some way. So they deserve to be treated with some tact and sensitivity.

Try to grow up and understand that.

Hope you all understand and agree.

[Cornfed]

Excellent points.

Another thing you may want to look into is those members who call other members "subhumans" because of their race and sex with them "bestiality".

I'm simply expressing an opinion, which comes under the heading of free speech. What would be a more civil way to express the same opinion?

[Winston]

Excellent points.

Another thing you may want to look into is those members who call other members "subhumans" because of their race and sex with them "bestiality". Certainly that sort of behaviour is also undesirable as we are a pretty diverse bunch.

People need to keep it civil. We're all in the same boat here and we all have largely the same goals, hopes and dreams so why all the in-fighting and rudeness?

Yes true. But it's hard to monitor everything. I only know what I see. So if such insults are given, you should report it to a moderator via PM or something.

I guess some people are bullies and derive pleasure by belittling others. It's kind of dysfunctional, but we have such types here too. Not all bullies are obvious and direct though. Some are subtle, like Rock is sometimes. After a while, you begin to sense a pattern, albeit a subtle one.

Either way, if someone is suffering a personal stressful event, it's very unwise and tactless to make it worse by mocking or ridiculing him unfairly. Wise people know that. But Rock and Repatriate clearly have low EQ when it comes to that kind of thing. They also make wrong and false assumptions in their assessments sometimes too.

Some people are victim-blaming. It seems to be in their nature.

But when I see that people around me are tactful and civil, and then come here and see such extreme bad tactless behavior from people like Rock and Repatriate, it really ticks my hide.

[Winston]

Excellent points.

Another thing you may want to look into is those members who call other members "subhumans" because of their race and sex with them "bestiality".

I'm simply expressing an opinion, which comes under the heading of free speech. What would be a more civil way to express the same opinion?

Because free speech does not mean anything goes. There's such a thing as bad behavior, which is tolerated to some extent, but when it's extreme, it becomes an issue. Free speech does not mean that it is ok to abuse it. You gotta have some degree of tactfulness too.

Everyone gets angry and has some personality defects of some sort. But extremely bad personalities and rude tactless comments should have some type of limit.

Unlimited bad behavior is not a good idea you know. Think about it. There has to be a line somewhere. This is common sense.

You cannot have zero tact in human relations, not even online human relations. There has to be SOME degree of tact at least.

[eurobrat]

It's a shame as this place should be a welcoming and helpful environment for those seeking to escape their miserable lives in the Western world and travel to countries where they can find love, affection and adventure. It has become clear to me that some people simply don't wish to be helpful at all, instead they derive pleasure from talking down on others.

I really have never found this place welcoming or the members ever united on anything except North American female bashing. Which if most of them did leave the country as I have they would find the North American females to actually be the better crop of women in this world.

[Winston]

Certain people are just disappointing overall. It's a shame as this place should be a welcoming and helpful environment for those seeking to escape their miserable lives in the Western world and travel to countries where they can find love, affection and adventure. It has become clear to me that some people simply don't wish to be helpful at all, instead they derive pleasure from talking down on others.

Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves? Who knows. But some people such as Cornfed have repeatedly pushed the bounderies of good taste and continue to do so. Free speech is a good thing, and of vital importance. But freedom of speech does not mean people should dehumanize and deeply offend others just because they can. That's tasteless and uncalled for.

Yes true. And Cornfed has been warned many times. He has even been temporarily banned before. So he has received some penalties. But some like his posts too.

Maybe we should have a poll to see whether he should be banned or not?

We cannot change Cornfed. He is what he is. All we can do is either temporarily ban him, or permanently ban him. We are still on the fence about that.

But the main point here is: There has to be SOME standard of tactfulness here, even on a forum. There cannot be zero tactfulness. There cannot be unlimited rudeness allowed either. This is common sense. People should not have to take unnecessary insults and mockery just because some people derive sick pleasure from it. It's morally wrong as well.

[Cornfed]

A more civil way would be to change your rotten opinion

Ah, so your objection has nothing to do with civility at all. You simply want to censor opinions that you disagree with. If you are opposed to free speech why not stay on politically correct forums?

[Winston]

A more civil way would be to change your rotten opinion

Ah, so your objection has nothing to do with civility at all. You simply want to censor opinions that you disagree with. If you are opposed to free speech why not stay on politically correct forums?

Marcos,
That's unrealistic. You cannot expect one to change their opinion on such matters. You can't force him to be colorblind or have zero biases when it comes to race. We all have our own biases and prejudices. There will never be zero racism.

But Cornfed can express his opinion in a more tactful manner. He has a right to be honest and to have free speech, but he cannot be allowed unlimited rudeness or zero tactfulness. That's not realistic or wise.

This is a gray area. The moderators will have to exercise their judgment on this matter.

[Cornfed]

Because I am not politically correct. I have opinions on women that are more traditional then most people. I am old-fashioned in some ways

OK, and on most forums you would be censored and idiots would say you were sexist, hated women, were deliberately being offensive to women etc. And you would maintain that that was wrong and your views should be tolerated as they are here. But then when someone expresses politically incorrect views that you don't agree with you immediately indulge in the very same behavior you would condemn in others. You are not going to learn anything or develop your worldview this way.

[Winston]

It's a shame as this place should be a welcoming and helpful environment for those seeking to escape their miserable lives in the Western world and travel to countries where they can find love, affection and adventure. It has become clear to me that some people simply don't wish to be helpful at all, instead they derive pleasure from talking down on others.

I really have never found this place welcoming or the members ever united on anything except North American female bashing. Which if most of them did leave the country as I have they would find the North American females to actually be the better crop of women in this world.

Well many of us have gone abroad and disagree with you 100 percent. If you want to come back to America and deal with spoiled rotten women who don't need you and don't want to be approached, then come back to America then.

[Winston]

Because I am not politically correct. I have opinions on women that are more traditional then most people. I am old-fashioned in some ways

OK, and on most forums you would be censored and idiots would say you were sexist, hated women, were deliberately being offensive to women etc. And you would maintain that that was wrong and your views should be tolerated as they are here. But then when someone expresses politically incorrect views that you don't agree with you immediately indulge in the very same behavior you would condemn in others. You are not going to learn anything or develop your worldview this way.

We are not debating whether political correctness should be enforced here. Of course it shouldn't. We are talking about having standards of tactfulness within reason. We cannot have zero tactfulness standards here. We cannot allow unlimited rudeness either. That would be unwise and crazy and wrong too. You gotta be reasonable and understand that.

[Cornfed]

You suggested a poll should be made. This would probably be the best way to get input from the community.

We've had a poll and the vote was to unban the banned posters by a wide margin. I would wager that the result was not about agreeing with any particular position but rather endorsing free speech. There was another poll that endorsed allowing racist posts. The community has spoken.

[Winston]

Cornfed,
You do have a right to free speech and to be honest about your feelings and beliefs. However, you do not have a right to unlimited rudeness and unlimited tactlessness without boundary.

So try to find a middle ground ok? Try to be more sensitive and considerate. Show some empathy at least.

That goes for some other tactless posters here too, such as Repatriate.

[Cornfed]

We have quite a few black members. If they find a nice girl to have sex with, most normal sane people would just congratulate them and be happy for them. But you get mean, bitter and angry and call it "bestiality" (as in, insinuating they are animal men sleeping with a human female). This type of behaviour is you taking things a little too far and I would like to see a poll on that.

I think you will find the vast majority of people in the world would be horrified by the idea of their females breeding or having sex with blacks, so by world standards if any opinion should be regarded as offensive and censored it should be yours.

It isn't racism in general that is the problem, but the way in which you word it. The way in which you say it. It's all just so extreme, uncivil and without any tact or subtlety.

So you are against clarity of speech then?

[Winston]

Observation:

It's sad, but I would say that it's highly probable that people like Cornfed and Repatriate, and sometimes Rock too, who lack sensitivity and empathy toward others, likely have sociopathic personality traits.

The simple reason is that people who are sensitive and empathetic do not act the way they do. They do not make horrible demeaning remarks frivolously without consideration, conscience or empathy toward others. Only sociopathic personalities do such things.