Threads like this make me lose all hope in women ☹️

[Tamingstrange]

Before, I held out hope, thinking that it was mainly Western women that were bad. That if I went abroad I'd find women that were kind, approachable, humane, humble and good hearted people. Then I come across threads like this with posts like Johnnyblond's that make me lose all hope and no longer want to bother wasting me time and money traveling abroad, fearing I'll just ultimately end up dealing with the same crap I deal with in the US. I'll admit, these kinds of threads are the reason why I'm hardly on the forums anymore. I honestly feel like a lot of the people on here are much too bitter, even for me.
viewtopic.php?t=40352

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Before, I held out hope, thinking that it was mainly Western women that were bad. That if I went abroad I'd find women that were kind, approachable, humane, humble and good hearted people. Then I come across threads like this with posts like Johnnyblond's that make me lose all hope and no longer want to bother wasting me time and money traveling abroad, fearing I'll just ultimately end up dealing with the same crap I deal with in the US. I'll admit, these kinds of threads are the reason why I'm hardly on the forums anymore. I honestly feel like a lot of the people on here are much too bitter, even for me.
viewtopic.php?t=40352

I find that women around the world tend to be variations of the same things:

-Emotional reasoning
-Superficial interest in the beginning
-Fickle nature
-High personal deception factor
-Gross overvaluations of their beauty or sexual market value

It all comes down to the matter of degree. In Western countries, the degree is off the charts. In places that are considered developing economies, the degree tends to be less.

So going abroad could likely land you BETTER women than your home country, they are still women at the end of the day. If you keep that in mind, you won't be disappointed.

[hypermak]

I wouldn't be so pessimistic.

Yes women will be women are show the same traits all over the world. To be objective, so many men of the latest generation (younger than 30) are also emotional, entitled, self-assured and often deluded and tend to overestimate their talent and importance in society. It's more of a global trend, perhaps due to globalisation of pop culture and its fetishes.

Many countries in Eastern Europe, Asia and Latin America still have a higher proportion of women who are more aware of traditional gender roles and behave consequently: they dress and act feminine, they show grace, even some of that sweet sense of docility that most men adore. They are more family oriented, with stronger moral values (loyalty!) and many of them are also highly educated, especially in countries like, ex-Soviet bloc, where education system is near-free and the job market more competitive.

The catch is not to be lured by the women on display on dating and "online bride" sites. Those sites are likely to attract the highest proportion of rotten apples, in any given country: overly materialistic, shallow, fickle, unfaithful women. They almost never represent what the women of that country really look like. You will either find a "user" or, if you're lucky, a single mom or divorcee in her late thirties to fourties, who knows has no market value locally and looks for a foreigner to be her sponsor.

To meet the good ones, if time and money permit, one should do "field trips": spend a few weeks in their country of choice and get a direct feel of how the women are. It's a tiring task that may well be expensive and lead to nothing. But if the "prize" is a better woman who will stay with you for life, it might be a price worth paying.

Good luck!

[HappyGuy]

make me lose all hope and no longer want to bother wasting me time and money traveling abroad, fearing I'll just ultimately end up dealing with the same crap I deal with in the US.

Check my signature. The problem isn't women: viewtopic.php?style=1&f=1&t=42259

[yick]

There are a lot of increasingly bitter men but they reject the path of self-improvement and they wonder why they don't get women, the also aim low and miss the target. These days, single mothers aren't short of love and interest back home, so why should they improve for a man who who is decidely average.

Going abroad is a solution as there are literally billions of women all around the world - if you lived a year anywhere in Asia, Latin America or Africa you would find more than one woman to love - but you need to be able to stay in these places long term and submit to whatever cultural shocks you're going to come up against.

But the core of being attractive to women is gradual and long term self improvement - getting into shape and being fit, learning about grooming and hyigene, learning on how to treat people fairly and learning about social graces, clothes and what suits you, how to be interesting, educate yourself - there's a lot of scope to become a person worth knowning and then the woman will come because you're such an interesting catch - you're going to get attention off woment that you find attractive.

It personally took me years to get there. I am not ashamed to admit it but I got there eventually and women who I like still find me attractive because I have made myself into a man worth knowing. Every day I shave and put on some nice, expensive aftershave - do you know how many women comment on how nice I smell - lots - moreso than how I dress... I put up a thread about after shave on this forum and got no replies. Smelling nice is one caveat of being attractive to most women. You learn about these things that help but if you do absolutely nothing to improve your core being then you'll get nothing.

[yick]

make me lose all hope and no longer want to bother wasting me time and money traveling abroad, fearing I'll just ultimately end up dealing with the same crap I deal with in the US.

Check my signature. The problem isn't women: viewtopic.php?style=1&f=1&t=42259

The link I posted was one of the best posts I have ever read about men finding women abroad, more often than not, they are looking for the wrong women in the wrong places and they wonder why they aren't fulfilled.

When the Soviet Union opened up in the nineties, there was a massive stampede of mostly beta American men who went there to find themselves a young, beautiful wife - why? Because they were also white, they were trying to cheat the system but also find someone that resembled the women back home who they wanted but couldn't have - the weighing factor was their dollars that could attract them - could they do that now? No, because women in Russia aren't that desperate to leave their country to live a lower middle class life in Ohio - the American dream has been well and truly busted.

The next American beta stampede is when Cuba opens up, nothing wrong with it but 'Happier Abroad' isn't a solution for a lot of men and that's the problem with it, they're just trying to cheat the system by looking abroad for something they want back home but can't get, now, looking for something different and being happy with it - how can you fail if that is what you actually want?

[hypermak]

There are a lot of increasingly bitter men but they reject the path of self-improvement and they wonder why they don't get women, the also aim low and miss the target. These days, single mothers aren't short of love and interest back home, so why should they improve for a man who who is decidely average.

Going abroad is a solution as there are literally billions of women all around the world - if you lived a year anywhere in Asia, Latin America or Africa you would find more than one woman to love - but you need to be able to stay in these places long term and submit to whatever cultural shocks you're going to come up against.

But the core of being attractive to women is gradual and long term self improvement - getting into shape and being fit, learning about grooming and hyigene, learning on how to treat people fairly and learning about social graces, clothes and what suits you, how to be interesting, educate yourself - there's a lot of scope to become a person worth knowning and then the woman will come because you're such an interesting catch - you're going to get attention off woment that you find attractive.

It personally took me years to get there. I am not ashamed to admit it but I got there eventually and women who I like still find me attractive because I have made myself into a man worth knowing. Every day I shave and put on some nice, expensive aftershave - do you know how many women comment on how nice I smell - lots - moreso than how I dress... I put up a thread about after shave on this forum and got no replies. Smelling nice is one caveat of being attractive to most women. You learn about these things that help but if you do absolutely nothing to improve your core being then you'll get nothing.

Self-improvement doesn't help much with women if those women are becoming dumber and more selfish/materialistic by the day. If it takes a quality woman to appreciate a quality man, becoming a quality man will definitely catch the interest of the fewer and fewer quality women out there, but it's not going to work miracles for the greater number of hot bimbos who will continue to drool over the thug, bad boy type.

By being the best version of ourselves we are basically trading quantity for quality. We should keep in mind that, even then, we will be competing for an ever-shrinking pool.

About being in the place where your "right one" is, that's a sore spot. Not everybody is fortunate enough to have a job that allows complete mobility, especially for prolonged times of the year and several hours away from the home/office timezone. I consider myself lucky to be in a profession where international jobs will never be scarce and I can basically decide what country I want to explore next, while furthering my career.

Perhaps, as part of that self-improvement you mention, a man could train himself on skills that can more easily give them jobs around the world, especially in the country they are planning to find romance in. The caveat is that most of these countries tend to be emerging and poor countries, where jobs don't attract the same level of salary as in the US or UK or Italy. The solution for this is to be employed by foreign companies/multinational, which usually offer a salary much closer to a first-world country.

An example I know about, a reputable Exec chef can easily make 120/150K dollars in the US and around 90K/100K pounds in the UK. In Singapore or Dubai it's about 20% less but it's well offset by the no/low taxation. Here in the Philippines, Thailand or Vietnam it's 25 to 30% less but a very sizeable amount and probably better value compared to the local cost of living.

Learning to be valuable, for a woman as well as an international employer, that's the key for me in a nutshell.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

There are a lot of increasingly bitter men but they reject the path of self-improvement and they wonder why they don't get women, the also aim low and miss the target.

Very true. It boggles my mind that American men who fail with women in the USA, expect to run the table in Eastern Europe. The wardrobe of your average American man looks downright gauche in Eastern Europe. An updated haircut, an image makeover, and refinement of that informal North American behavior pays huge dividends but so few men feel the need to do that.

Every day I shave and put on some nice, expensive aftershave - do you know how many women comment on how nice I smell - lots - moreso than how I dress...

I've never used aftershave, but I use a light touch of l'eau de toilette or cologne virtually everyday. I think fragrance is a dead concept for men because I get a lot of comments and extra long hugs and holds too! It is amazing how subtle deviations from what most men do are hugely noticeable.

[yick]

There are a lot of increasingly bitter men but they reject the path of self-improvement and they wonder why they don't get women, the also aim low and miss the target. These days, single mothers aren't short of love and interest back home, so why should they improve for a man who who is decidely average.

Going abroad is a solution as there are literally billions of women all around the world - if you lived a year anywhere in Asia, Latin America or Africa you would find more than one woman to love - but you need to be able to stay in these places long term and submit to whatever cultural shocks you're going to come up against.

But the core of being attractive to women is gradual and long term self improvement - getting into shape and being fit, learning about grooming and hyigene, learning on how to treat people fairly and learning about social graces, clothes and what suits you, how to be interesting, educate yourself - there's a lot of scope to become a person worth knowning and then the woman will come because you're such an interesting catch - you're going to get attention off woment that you find attractive.

It personally took me years to get there. I am not ashamed to admit it but I got there eventually and women who I like still find me attractive because I have made myself into a man worth knowing. Every day I shave and put on some nice, expensive aftershave - do you know how many women comment on how nice I smell - lots - moreso than how I dress... I put up a thread about after shave on this forum and got no replies. Smelling nice is one caveat of being attractive to most women. You learn about these things that help but if you do absolutely nothing to improve your core being then you'll get nothing.

Self-improvement doesn't help much with women if those women are becoming dumber and more selfish/materialistic by the day. If it takes a quality woman to appreciate a quality man, becoming a quality man will definitely catch the interest of the fewer and fewer quality women out there, but it's not going to work miracles for the greater number of hot bimbos who will continue to drool over the thug, bad boy type.

By being the best version of ourselves we are basically trading quantity for quality. We should keep in mind that, even then, we will be competing for an ever-shrinking pool.

About being in the place where your "right one" is, that's a sore spot. Not everybody is fortunate enough to have a job that allows complete mobility, especially for prolonged times of the year and several hours away from the home/office timezone. I consider myself lucky to be in a profession where international jobs will never be scarce and I can basically decide what country I want to explore next, while furthering my career.

Perhaps, as part of that self-improvement you mention, a man could train himself on skills that can more easily give them jobs around the world, especially in the country they are planning to find romance in. The caveat is that most of these countries tend to be emerging and poor countries, where jobs don't attract the same level of salary as in the US or UK or Italy. The solution for this is to be employed by foreign companies/multinational, which usually offer a salary much closer to a first-world country.

An example I know about, a reputable Exec chef can easily make 120/150K dollars in the US and around 90K/100K pounds in the UK. In Singapore or Dubai it's about 20% less but it's well offset by the no/low taxation. Here in the Philippines, Thailand or Vietnam it's 25 to 30% less but a very sizeable amount and probably better value compared to the local cost of living.

Learning to be valuable, for a woman as well as an international employer, that's the key for me in a nutshell.

I disagree with your initial premise, self-improvement is not ALL about getting the woman - it is the sum total of being, it is also realising you're worth the investment and that imporving yourself will lead to other positive behavioural aspects of social behaviours such as improved self -esteem, you won't put up with bad female behaviour because you know you're a man of worth, also, because you set high standards for yourself, you will demand high standards from a mate, I don't smoke, drink nor take drugs - I won't accept this from a potential lover, I am educated - I want an educated woman, I don't have any kids so I am not going to date single mothers - so, if you set high standards for yourself then you can demand it from others. There might be lots of bad women back home who aren't up to the standards I set but there are many places where these nice women exist, of course, you have to be proactive and seek them out, these is part of the drive about self-improvement.

Women don't drool over 'bad boy' types, I think this is a lie, what women don't like are percieved 'nice guys' because he is lying, even to himself. Most men are nice to women who they like and who they want to have sex with, some of them might be all-round nice guys but more often than not he is partaking in fraudulent activity and women can see through them, the 'bad boy' is honest and she knows he is being himself. If you are going out of the way to be a 'nice guy' to win favours of women you like then it won't work unless she likes you back - but that kind of behaviour repels women more often than not because they know it's an act - it took a large part of my younger life to work this out.

Moving abroad isn't an easy endeavour - not just being employable but having the type of personality that allows inner change and being able to live within different cultures, none of that is easy - it takes a lot of effort and a lot of stress and pain - that is part of the drive self-improvement where you allow that change to take place and become a more worldly and adaprtable person.

[yick]

There are a lot of increasingly bitter men but they reject the path of self-improvement and they wonder why they don't get women, the also aim low and miss the target.

Very true. It boggles my mind that American men who fail with women in the USA, expect to run the table in Eastern Europe. The wardrobe of your average American man looks downright gauche in Eastern Europe. An updated haircut, an image makeover, and refinement of that informal North American behavior pays huge dividends but so few men feel the need to do that.

Every day I shave and put on some nice, expensive aftershave - do you know how many women comment on how nice I smell - lots - moreso than how I dress...

I've never used aftershave, but I use a light touch of l'eau de toilette or cologne virtually everyday. I think fragrance is a dead concept for men because I get a lot of comments and extra long hugs and holds too! It is amazing how subtle deviations from what most men do are hugely noticeable.

It's true that! A good Eau de toilette/cologne/parfum does wonders and women do like getting near you and hugging you if you smell nice! I get that here and this is a country where the culture of hugging is frowned upon!

I remember my little sister telling me on a crush she had on an older man in her workplace because he 'smelled lovely' those little things you need take on board when you hear it.

[hypermak]

I disagree with your initial premise, self-improvement is not ALL about getting the woman - it is the sum total of being, it is also realising you're worth the investment and that imporving yourself will lead to other positive behavioural aspects of social behaviours such as improved self -esteem, you won't put up with bad female behaviour because you know you're a man of worth, also, because you set high standards for yourself, you will demand high standards from a mate, I don't smoke, drink nor take drugs - I won't accept this from a potential lover, I am educated - I want an educated woman, I don't have any kids so I am not going to date single mothers - so, if you set high standards for yourself then you can demand it from others. There might be lots of bad women back home who aren't up to the standards I set but there are many places where these nice women exist, of course, you have to be proactive and seek them out, these is part of the drive about self-improvement.

Women don't drool over 'bad boy' types, I think this is a lie, what women don't like are percieved 'nice guys' because he is lying, even to himself. Most men are nice to women who they like and who they want to have sex with, some of them might be all-round nice guys but more often than not he is partaking in fraudulent activity and women can see through them, the 'bad boy' is honest and she knows he is being himself. If you are going out of the way to be a 'nice guy' to win favours of women you like then it won't work unless she likes you back - but that kind of behaviour repels women more often than not because they know it's an act - it took a large part of my younger life to work this out.

Moving abroad isn't an easy endeavour - not just being employable but having the type of personality that allows inner change and being able to live within different cultures, none of that is easy - it takes a lot of effort and a lot of stress and pain - that is part of the drive self-improvement where you allow that change to take place and become a more worldly and adaprtable person.

Don't get me wrong, I believe self-improvement is something worth doing for reasons well beyond impressing the ladies, or finding lasting love. If you set higher standards for who you want to be, who you want to be around, who is worth your attention and love, and you are genuine in your efforts, you will naturally get you closer to the best people and they will get closer to you.

It's just that the pool of women who can actually appreciate quality in a man and even other women, are getting fewer and fewer. I think the reward is worth the challenge and I think that going abroad is still a "fairly unfair" advantage. Otherwise we always have some of those niche environments where it's still possible to find good women: charity associations, religious communities, healthcare institutions, schools, and few others. I don't know about the US but, in Italy, we still have the habit of checking out a potential partner's family and social circle before deciding to commit to someone for a serious relationship. If a girl looks valuable and she comes from a family of values, the chances are immensely higher than those values won't be fake or fickle.

About the "bad boy" stereotype, yes you are correct. Women have more attention to detail than men and are much more able to spot the small inconsistencies that give away an insincere behaviour, a posturing, over a genuine one. That's why I never believed in "game" and those self-help theories that will try to mold you into a "mechanical" version of someone who, ultimately, you are not. A girl will choose a genuine thug any day over a fake gentleman, that's true. Unless they are there to get something out of said fake gentleman, that is

About being nice, I agree with you to some extent. I think we should distinguish the act of being sweet and kind that is part of chivalry, the game of courtship, from the petulant begging for attention, or the pompous ostentation, which just betray insecurity, emotional weakness and maybe a bit of desperation.

By personal experience, I have met a lot of superficial slutty girls who don't believe they are doing anything wrong by bedding 2, 3 different men every month, usually taken from a tiny pool of good looking studs. Most of those good looking studs are no-gooders who love riding the pu**y merry-go-round until it lasts. Most girls intimately know those are not men worth settling down with or marrying, they're just in for sex.

I am glad that you put some effort to develop yourself to a confident man of many qualities. This kind of attitude is the best way to get any kind of attention, from a girl to a mentor, or employer, or quality friend, anywhere in the world.