Do Italians really think America is wonderful like this? No way!

[Winston]

@hypermak

Do you believe any Italian guy would say this about america? No way. Is this what most Italians say?

[11/9, 11:37 AM] Alex From Venice: Fu amore a prima vista, quando nel 1997, scesi dall'aereo per la prima volta negli USA. Da lì tutte le altre volte che vi ritornai per studio, vacanze, congressi, quella sensazione di libertà, solidità, felicità, rispetto per il prossimo, mi ha sempre pervaso e conquistato. Amo quel popolo e invidio gli italiani che vi lavorano stabilmente.

It was love at first sight, when in 1997, I got off the plane for the first time in the USA. From there, all the other times that I went back for study, holidays, conferences, that feeling of freedom, solidity, happiness, respect for others, has always pervaded and conquered me. I love that people and I envy the Italians who work there permanently.

[11/10, 10:43 AM] Winston Wu: That sounds exaggerated. Show him what the guy in my forum said about italy. Theres no way anyone would claim that theres solidarity in america alex. No one says that.

[11/10, 10:46 AM] Winston Wu: Tell him that only in america do people tell u to "love yourself" because in america no one loves u for u. In italy and other countries no one tells u that u need to love yourself. Its stupid and useless advice.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

[11/10, 10:43 AM] Winston Wu: That sounds exaggerated. Show him what the guy in my forum said about italy. Theres no way anyone would claim that theres solidarity in america alex. No one says that.

Italian citizens visiting the USA tend to be polite, affluent, intelligent and they seem to love it for whatever reason. If you are using Hypermak for some sort of typical "Italian opinion," you are way off course. The guy is just an overall, uneducated MALCONTENT who just likes to cause conflict and besmirch anyone who is doing markedly better than he is doing.

Face it. The guy ran away from Italy so he clearly was not happy there. Then he got a slavery-like kitchen job in Manila a cook to live as a permanent sex tourist until he got fired recently. So what does he do? He runs back to mommy and daddy like a wayward teenager and he'll likely live with them as weak-minded Mammones tend to do. If he were worth anything he would start his own business or at least command an elite salary.

Everything about that guy is miserable and everyone here knows he is a quintessential loser. I would never have imagined encountering a guy who is content to be "Ordinary" and one who has the nerve to encourage other men to remain "Ordinary" so as to not leave him behind! Why you even tolerate someone like that on the forum is beyond me.



So don't view him as a typical Italian. View him as a perma-loser who wants others to reflect the failures of his own life. Misery loves company. Never forget that.

[hypermak]

Italian citizens visiting the USA tend to be polite, affluent, intelligent and they seem to love it for whatever reason. If you are using Hypermak for some sort of typical "Italian opinion," you are way off course. The guy is just an overall, uneducated MALCONTENT who just likes to cause conflict and besmirch anyone who is doing markedly better than he is doing.

Face it. The guy ran away from Italy so he clearly was not happy there. Then he got a slavery-like kitchen job in Manila a cook to live as a permanent sex tourist until he got fired recently. So what does he do? He runs back to mommy and daddy like a wayward teenager and he'll likely live with them as weak-minded Mammones tend to do. If he were worth anything he would start his own business or at least command an elite salary.

Everything about that guy is miserable and everyone here knows he is a quintessential loser. I would never have imagined encountering a guy who is content to be "Ordinary" and one who has the nerve to encourage other men to remain "Ordinary" so as to not leave him behind! Why you even tolerate someone like that on the forum is beyond me.

So don't view him as a typical Italian. View him as a perma-loser who wants others to reflect the failures of his own life. Misery loves company. Never forget that.

More meaningless mind farts from our trolling nonno. After an "Italianman" decided I am "as Italian as John Travolta", here's the other half of the comedy duo declaring that I don't qualify for an opinion because I am, apparently, a grade-B Italian.

We all know who is the miserable old guy here who is catching up with stuff he never did 30 years ago, using his pension money and posing as the black Daniel Craig.

We all know who the creepy sex tourist is, since you admitted to chasing college students and asking them to sleep with you for money.

We all know who is making up fantasy stories about success, wealth and an "extraordinary life" while looking down on real people who, unlike him, work hard and pursue their own life paths without much drama, envy and frustration.

There is nothing bad about being "ordinary", especially when "extraordinary" is all in your mind.

We all know that. The problem is, will you ever realise?

[hypermak]

@hypermak

Do you believe any Italian guy would say this about america? No way. Is this what most Italians say?

[11/9, 11:37 AM] Alex From Venice: Fu amore a prima vista, quando nel 1997, scesi dall'aereo per la prima volta negli USA. Da lì tutte le altre volte che vi ritornai per studio, vacanze, congressi, quella sensazione di libertà, solidità, felicità, rispetto per il prossimo, mi ha sempre pervaso e conquistato. Amo quel popolo e invidio gli italiani che vi lavorano stabilmente.

It was love at first sight, when in 1997, I got off the plane for the first time in the USA. From there, all the other times that I went back for study, holidays, conferences, that feeling of freedom, solidity, happiness, respect for others, has always pervaded and conquered me. I love that people and I envy the Italians who work there permanently.

[11/10, 10:43 AM] Winston Wu: That sounds exaggerated. Show him what the guy in my forum said about italy. Theres no way anyone would claim that theres solidarity in america alex. No one says that.

[11/10, 10:46 AM] Winston Wu: Tell him that only in america do people tell u to "love yourself" because in america no one loves u for u. In italy and other countries no one tells u that u need to love yourself. Its stupid and useless advice.

I don't think all Italians have that kind of impression of the US, although, I suppose, it depends on what parts of the US you see, who you interact with, etc. Again, an umbrella statement that certainly doesn't reflect every Italian's view.

Plus, I am sure US society has changed a lot from the happy Reagan times, and not to the better.

[Yohan]

This topic is somewhat wrong or misleading - it should be better 'What do people from Europe think about USA' Wonderful or sceptical?

There are some good things about USA, but also a lot of issues which give European people not a good impression about the States.

For sure, USA is not the worst place in this world, there are many countries which are by far worse. However USA has also its problems, which are difficult to understand for Europeans, like the missing of any basic health insurance for all citizens, different laws state by state creating a legal chaos, unusual huge prison population, racist issues, very prudish society, gun culture and so on....

----------------

To single out in Europe ONLY Italians does not make sense... this is leading to nowhere.

[hypermak]

This topic is somewhat wrong or misleading - it should be better 'What do people from Europe think about USA' Wonderful or sceptical?

There are some good things about USA, but also a lot of issues which give European people not a good impression about the States.

For sure, USA is not the worst place in this world, there are many countries which are by far worse. However USA has also its problems, which are difficult to understand for Europeans, like the missing of any basic health insurance for all citizens, different laws state by state creating a legal chaos, unusual huge prison population, racist issues, very prudish society, gun culture and so on....

----------------

To single out in Europe ONLY Italians does not make sense... this is leading to nowhere.

I think @Winston mentioned Italians because of his conversation with Alex. Even with all the decline and the degeneration of this world, the US will always remain one of the best counties the world to study, work, and live. Then it's about the nuances, and there are a lot of nuances.

It takes a specific kind of person to enjoy living stably (as opposed to being a tourist for a few weeks) in Italy, so why should it be different for the US?

Personally, one of the traits of American people I can't stomach is their obsession with comparing themselves to other people to feel happy about the place in life they got to. I couldn't find a better critique of "the system" than Radiohead's "Fitter Happier".



You see this toxic mentality at work on the trolling activities of Contrarian Expatriate and PAG. Both absolutely fixated with showing off whatever (alleged) skills, charm and wealth they have, and waging war to whoever doesn't agree with their world view.

[gsjackson]

This topic is somewhat wrong or misleading - it should be better 'What do people from Europe think about USA' Wonderful or sceptical?

There are some good things about USA, but also a lot of issues which give European people not a good impression about the States.

For sure, USA is not the worst place in this world, there are many countries which are by far worse. However USA has also its problems, which are difficult to understand for Europeans, like the missing of any basic health insurance for all citizens, different laws state by state creating a legal chaos, unusual huge prison population, racist issues, very prudish society, gun culture and so on....

----------------

To single out in Europe ONLY Italians does not make sense... this is leading to nowhere.

I think @Winston mentioned Italians because of his conversation with Alex. Even with all the decline and the degeneration of this world, the US will always remain one of the best counties the world to study, work, and live. Then it's about the nuances, and there are a lot of nuances.

It takes a specific kind of person to enjoy living stably (as opposed to being a tourist for a few weeks) in Italy, so why should it be different for the US?

Personally, one of the traits of American people I can't stomach is their obsession with comparing themselves to other people to feel happy about the place in life they got to. I couldn't find a better critique of "the system" than Radiohead's "Fitter Happier".



You see this toxic mentality at work on the trolling activities of Contrarian Expatriate and PAG. Both absolutely fixated with showing off whatever (alleged) skills, charm and wealth they have, and waging war to whoever doesn't agree with their world view.

It's a British tradition to mock middle-class self-strivers, perhaps not unrelated to aristocratic privilege. I assume these rock groups are referencing their own society, not the U.S.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bQsGiiPVFo

[Italianman]

@hypermak

Do you believe any Italian guy would say this about america? No way. Is this what most Italians say?

[11/9, 11:37 AM] Alex From Venice: Fu amore a prima vista, quando nel 1997, scesi dall'aereo per la prima volta negli USA. Da lì tutte le altre volte che vi ritornai per studio, vacanze, congressi, quella sensazione di libertà, solidità, felicità, rispetto per il prossimo, mi ha sempre pervaso e conquistato. Amo quel popolo e invidio gli italiani che vi lavorano stabilmente.

It was love at first sight, when in 1997, I got off the plane for the first time in the USA. From there, all the other times that I went back for study, holidays, conferences, that feeling of freedom, solidity, happiness, respect for others, has always pervaded and conquered me. I love that people and I envy the Italians who work there permanently.

[11/10, 10:43 AM] Winston Wu: That sounds exaggerated. Show him what the guy in my forum said about italy. Theres no way anyone would claim that theres solidarity in america alex. No one says that.

[11/10, 10:46 AM] Winston Wu: Tell him that only in america do people tell u to "love yourself" because in america no one loves u for u. In italy and other countries no one tells u that u need to love yourself. Its stupid and useless advice.

I don't think all Italians have that kind of impression of the US, although, I suppose, it depends on what parts of the US you see, who you interact with, etc. Again, an umbrella statement that certainly doesn't reflect every Italian's view.

Plus, I am sure US society has changed a lot from the happy Reagan times, and not to the better.

Lol, you can't even get basic facts straight The man said he got off the plane in **1997**. That would be 4 years into the presidency of Bill Clinton. Reagan and Bush Sr were total disasters. While labor productivity increased 17 percent in the 1980s, real average hourly earnings in December 1992 were less than they were when President Ronald Reagan took office in 1981. At the same time the cost of health care was up more than 20 percent and the cost of housing had risen by 10 percent overall. Unemployment rate in 1992 was 7.5 percent, up from 6.9 percent the year before. And though the economy had started to grow again in 1992 after contracting in 1991, prospects for dramatic economic progress were still relatively dim. The Congressional Budget Office, for example, expected unemployment to remain above 6 percent for at least three more years, and they foresaw rather pedestrian overall economic growth.

President Bill Clinton’s economic strategy focused on policies that invested in people, innovation, and infrastructure—investments that strengthened communities and middle class. By pairing that strategy with a smart fiscal approach, his administration and Congress during his two terms in office transformed a weak economy into a fundamentally strong one, turned deficits into surpluses, and created the conditions for strong future growth.

President Clinton presided over one of the most impressive economic turnarounds in modern history. By the end of his term, 22.7 million new jobs had been created, unemployment dropped to a 30-year low, and gross domestic product grew by 35 percent overall through the longest period of sustained growth in U.S. history ATFER President Obama.

Now, compare that with Italy's economy at the same time. It is no brainer why Italians LOVE AMERICA. In the age group of 15 to 24 years, unemployment across the population in Italy surpassed 30 percent in 1997. Since the early 1990s, the public debt of Italy has hit its highest level since the First World War. In 1992, Italy surpassed the 100% debt-to-GDP ratio threshold and has never succeeded in getting the ratio below this threshold since then. The Spanish are now wealthier than the Italians! Some former Soviet bloc nations, including Slovakia and the Czech Republic, are also predicted to become wealthier per capita than Italy by 2023, according to IMF projections. The economy of Italy is still only marginally larger than it was in 2000, while other leading EU economies have risen by 25% or more. The total output of Spain is 35 per cent higher than in 2000. Italy's GDP just grew by 0.3 percent last year, compared to 0.8 percent in 2018. According to the revised IMF projections for 14 April 2020, GDP growth is projected to fall to -9.1 percent in 2020 and rise to 4.8 percent in 2021 as a result of the outbreak of COVID-19.

On a per capita basis, Italy was the 18th richest economy in 1997 among the countries for which the IMF has a full data collection. Its ranking dropped 10 positions after 10 years, and in the decade to 2017, it has now slipped five more positions. By 2023, on a per capita basis, Italy is projected to be only the 37th richest country.

It's funny how PD/hypermak keeps proving that he's not Italian Italy is a country with pretty much zero opportunities

https://www.ft.com/content/90d28bbc-43c ... 5c97e6fd0b

[hypermak]

It's funny how PD/hypermak keeps proving that he's not Italian Italy is a country with pretty much zero opportunities

That might be true and I have been saying it. What opportunities did America give you? You shift boxes part-time for a living, just like @Contrarian Expatriate was a modest white collar who thinks he's the hottest s*it in town because he can spend his pension on prostitutes.

America only gave you an unhealthy obsession and a bag of delusion s that you carry with you wherever you are.

If America is the land of opportunities, then clearly you are a lot less American than I am Italian.

Funny how both you and CE obsessively try to pose as the ultimate radical "contrarian thinkers" but you have been, and are, totally and heavily dependent on the "system", much more than my family and I ever will be.

[yick]

There are only two countries on the exemption list for the Diversity Lottery Visa that could be considered first world countries and that is Canada (right next door...) and the UK (excluding Northern Ireland...) the rest are third world countries. To get on the list - the citizens of any country have needed to supplied 50000 immigrants to the United States within the last five years.

A lot of the Brits and Canadians have married Americans and got legality that way. But it seems that a lot of Europeans aren't trying to live the 'American Dream' or even trying to attempt it but I am sure it is still quite attractive for Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and Russians.

Has anyone seen that daft movie about Tom Hanks living in an airport and he wanted to go back to his home country than take up US residency and the Pakistani cleaner 'it is EVERYONES dream to live in this country you coward' and I laughed at that scene because there are obviously Americans who believe this shit.

[Yohan]

What opportunities did America give you?
.....
America only gave you an unhealthy obsession and a bag of delusion s that you carry with you wherever you are.

If America is the land of opportunities, then clearly you are a lot less American than I am Italian.

What opportunities did America give you?

Good question!

I think, it depends who you are, what is the country of your origin and your financial situation - how was your daily life there before moving over to USA?

If you come from somewhere within the European Community, or from Japan, or other countries with good living standard, you often will find USA as not really attractive to live there.

My younger daughter tried it out for a couple of years in USA/Canada, but decided to return to Japan. I also visit USA several times, meeting some friends, US-citizens - some with European, and some with Japanese background - not bad, but I also found no real good reason why I should consider to live there.

Of course if you living in poverty, you dream about USA day and night and should you really manage to arrive there and find help you will feel you are in a paradise.

There are plenty of countries with millions of people living there whose daily life is nothing but a daily fight for survival and who will find USA as their dream destination.

Life is simply said good luck, you cannot choose your parents and the place where you are born...

[yick]

What opportunities did America give you?
.....
America only gave you an unhealthy obsession and a bag of delusion s that you carry with you wherever you are.

If America is the land of opportunities, then clearly you are a lot less American than I am Italian.

What opportunities did America give you?

Good question!

I think, it depends who you are, what is the country of your origin and your financial situation - how was your daily life there before moving over to USA?

If you come from somewhere within the European Community, or from Japan, or other countries with good living standard, you often will find USA as not really attractive to live there.

My younger daughter tried it out for a couple of years in USA/Canada, but decided to return to Japan. I also visit USA several times, meeting some friends, US-citizens - some with European, and some with Japanese background - not bad, but I also found no real good reason why I should consider to live there.

Of course if you living in poverty, you dream about USA day and night and should you really manage to arrive there and find help you will feel you are in a paradise.

There are plenty of countries with millions of people living there whose daily life is nothing but a daily fight for survival and who will find USA as their dream destination.

Life is simply said good luck, you cannot choose your parents and the place where you are born...

That's true of Latin America - I have a lot of family in the United States (as they call it...) ending up there and working and eventually gaining citizenship is 'making it' also, there are enough places over there where they can settle and be amongst their own. I can understand why a Latin American without much in the way of prospects would try and make it work over there - saying that, a lot of rich Latin Americans - the Venezuelans for example, made a beeline for there during the Chavez years. Middle class Venezuelans decided to opt for Spain.

[Italianman]

It's funny how PD/hypermak keeps proving that he's not Italian Italy is a country with pretty much zero opportunities

That might be true and I have been saying it. What opportunities did America give you? You shift boxes part-time for a living, just like @Contrarian Expatriate was a modest white collar who thinks he's the hottest s*it in town because he can spend his pension on prostitutes.

America only gave you an unhealthy obsession and a bag of delusion s that you carry with you wherever you are.

If America is the land of opportunities, then clearly you are a lot less American than I am Italian.

Funny how both you and CE obsessively try to pose as the ultimate radical "contrarian thinkers" but you have been, and are, totally and heavily dependent on the "system", much more than my family and I ever will be.

Lol, what do you know about America? You don't even know about Europe! You're completely incompetent In America, a record 6.71% (or 8,386,508 out of 125,018,808 total U.S. households) can now claim millionaire status. That's up from 6.21% in 2018 and just 5.81% in 2017. I got guys in my relocation company making over $500/day just "shifting" boxes part-time. How much do you make? Keep in mind that these guys are mostly completely uneducated and would be lucky making $1200/mo in Europe. But they all think they are smarter than me and worth more









Every week I hear this same shit about being paid more money. They see me making $40,000/month and getting pedicure and think they are entitled to the same pay and lifestyle

[Italianman]

There are only two countries on the exemption list for the Diversity Lottery Visa that could be considered first world countries and that is Canada (right next door...) and the UK (excluding Northern Ireland...) the rest are third world countries. To get on the list - the citizens of any country have needed to supplied 50000 immigrants to the United States within the last five years.

A lot of the Brits and Canadians have married Americans and got legality that way. But it seems that a lot of Europeans aren't trying to live the 'American Dream' or even trying to attempt it but I am sure it is still quite attractive for Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and Russians.

Has anyone seen that daft movie about Tom Hanks living in an airport and he wanted to go back to his home country than take up US residency and the Pakistani cleaner 'it is EVERYONES dream to live in this country you coward' and I laughed at that scene because there are obviously Americans who believe this shit.

Yeah, to make it top tier in America, most Europeans do not have the imagination or overall brains. If you're not the best of the best, living in whatever country you're from is safer.

[yick]

There are only two countries on the exemption list for the Diversity Lottery Visa that could be considered first world countries and that is Canada (right next door...) and the UK (excluding Northern Ireland...) the rest are third world countries. To get on the list - the citizens of any country have needed to supplied 50000 immigrants to the United States within the last five years.

A lot of the Brits and Canadians have married Americans and got legality that way. But it seems that a lot of Europeans aren't trying to live the 'American Dream' or even trying to attempt it but I am sure it is still quite attractive for Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and Russians.

Has anyone seen that daft movie about Tom Hanks living in an airport and he wanted to go back to his home country than take up US residency and the Pakistani cleaner 'it is EVERYONES dream to live in this country you coward' and I laughed at that scene because there are obviously Americans who believe this shit.

Yeah, to make it top tier in America, most Europeans do not have the imagination or overall brains. If you're not the best of the best, living in whatever country you're from is safer.

Very few Europeans are interested in living in America. Brits, Irish, Russians, Poles, Ukrainians and one or two others.