What It Means To Be A Good Father

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

Don't get married then you won't have to be a father. Being a father is hard work with marginal return of investment.

Financially, it might be better if you instill in them the idea of taking care of their parents. But compared to never marrying, single men tend to live shorter lives. Having marriage and children puts people in your life to care about and to care about you. The west is a culture where people tend to be socially disconnected. You can try to have lots of friendships, but your friends marry off and get busy with family or move away. If you don't have a family, it puts you at a disadvantage socially.

If you marry the wrong woman then your life will turn up side down and sideways. It's like playing with Russian Roulette.
And besides, the state will take care of your parents via Social security and old people apartment. And you don't need to get married and have kids to be compassionate.. you can give your compassion in homeless shelter or volunteer work.

[WilliamSmith]

I agree with several points made by both Mr Man and Natural Born Cynic here, personally:

Realism makes it impossible for me to wholly agree with MrMan that marriage (which he has succeeded with, but mistakenly over-idealizes as something that would help most men) is supposedly going to lead to either sexual satisfaction, or lasting personal satisfaction, because most married men I've observed are a bunch of miserable little old hens dominated by shrew wives who usually end up divorcing them and destroying their financial lives, and sometimes their families, as well. (And I never wanted that to be so! It's quite sad, it's just that's what I've all-too-often seen to be the case, even amongst supposedly religious people.) I'm glad @MrMan is happy with his, but it's unrealistic to think just getting married is going to work some kind of magic via divine intervention.

However, I strongly agree with:

You can try to have lots of friendships, but your friends marry off and get busy with family or move away. If you don't have a family, it puts you at a disadvantage socially.

I agree with this. This is something I've seen as a strength amongst Africans and some islanders: They have a big extended family that is a wonderful resource for them. I personally have consistently had a bunch of FWB girlfriends (quite valuable and we make each other happy, but not the same as a real family or "clan'), I have my old male friends I've known from childhood who are like "brothers" to me and I value that too, but they're frankly a bunch of !@#$ed up jerks with drug and alcohol issues (not saying I'm not a "jerk" either, but just telling it like it is), and then on the family side, there's mostly older people who I care about but would frankly be better off if I didn't have to deal with them....
But if you have a big extended family, there's more of a valuable clannish network that can help you on all kinds of levels, from networking to working out solutions for care of elders, and many other things. (We'll get back to this topic later, I like it.)

All this praise for what I called the "extended family" doesn't hold with delusional people with only one wife and a few kids though. I'd love for the happy "nuclear family" ideal to work out, but I'm not convinced it usually does (which I agree is sad). Many times that is a recipe for total disaster in the modern day jewnited states, especially if they disastrously got into an idealistic hodler marriage without a bullet-proof prenuptial contract to protect their financial assets from their wives (or husbands, if it's the wife who is the breadwinner).
How many cases have we seen even posted on this forum of that, like the old worthwhile guy who was once a traditional hodler with a wife and kids busting his ass at a job his whole life, then got divorced by his dissatisfied shrew wife who devasted him financially, separated him from his children, and then left him alone having a triple-bypass alone, then considering suicide... until he fortunately managed to get "Happier Abroad" and marry some little Pinay village girl? But he was one of the lucky ones for even being able to pick up the pieces. So I don't see why there's any value in men like him having previously haven fallen into the TMM pit-trap, just because tradcon believers said so based on their ideals.

@Natural_Born_Cynic

If you marry the wrong woman then your life will turn up side down and sideways. It's like playing with Russian Roulette.
And besides, the state will take care of your parents via Social security and old people apartment. And you don't need to get married and have kids to be compassionate.. you can give your compassion in homeless shelter or volunteer work.

Heheh, the state only takes care of them if your parents actually earned enough to get a good yield off their SS. I know all too well the alternative situation, where the old-folk didn't earn worth !@#$, then you have to deal with them just of out what Confucius called "filian piety," sigh.....
But other than that, I agree:
Honestly, the only men who should seriously consider a marriage are probably those with abnormally high confidence and skill with women to begin with (which tend to the opposite of those who do marry, even if MrMan is a rare exception), and even then 100% of men should get a bullet-proof prenuptial contract to protect their assets.
Those prenups protect women from loser husbands as well (I know some women who have to pay crappy men they unwisely married alimony, LOL), so it's not a 1-sided thing, just common sense if hodlers actually have their $$ where their mouth is about signing up for TMM contracts.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

@WilliamSmith

True, but prenups in America doesn't mean sh*t for the man. The wife's lawyer and the judge will null and void the prenup if it is deemed "unfair" for the women in divorce cases. You still lose the 50% of the assets and have to pay the wife "the alimony" every month even if she is F*cking a different man. And you have to pay for "child support" every month until your kids turn 18 which the wife snatches from the children and use it as her own money. I know couple of guys who deliberately transfer all his assets to his mom and dad, overpay his taxes to the IRS and take on cash jobs just to avoid paying a hefty price.

Marriage is like a Russian Roulette. Your babe can turn into a sour puss monster b*tch all the sudden. If you want love and compassion then get a pet instead. They will never divorce you.

[MrMan]

@WilliamSmith

True, but prenups in America doesn't mean sh*t for the man. The wife's lawyer and the judge will null and void the prenup if it is deemed "unfair" for the women in divorce cases. You still lose the 50% of the assets and have to pay the wife "the alimony" every month even if she is F*cking a different man. And you have to pay for "child support" every month until your kids turn 18 which the wife snatches from the children and use it as her own money. I know couple of guys who deliberately transfer all his assets to his mom and dad, overpay his taxes to the IRS and take on cash jobs just to avoid paying a hefty price.

Marriage is like a Russian Roulette. Your babe can turn into a sour puss monster b*tch all the sudden. If you want love and compassion then get a pet instead. They will never divorce you.

I wonder if a man overpaid taxes to the IRS for three years when his kid was 15, then redid his tax returns after the kid turned 18, could he get a refund without it affecting child support.

Probably, the child support amount was set way back in the past and if his income falls he has to try to get the courts to hear his case. So did the men do, pay the IRS way too much before going before the judge to reduce the aftertax income on the tax return, then redo their taxes to get it back later, or just forgo the extra money and put a lower after tax income down on later tax returns?

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

@WilliamSmith

True, but prenups in America doesn't mean sh*t for the man. The wife's lawyer and the judge will null and void the prenup if it is deemed "unfair" for the women in divorce cases. You still lose the 50% of the assets and have to pay the wife "the alimony" every month even if she is F*cking a different man. And you have to pay for "child support" every month until your kids turn 18 which the wife snatches from the children and use it as her own money. I know couple of guys who deliberately transfer all his assets to his mom and dad, overpay his taxes to the IRS and take on cash jobs just to avoid paying a hefty price.

Marriage is like a Russian Roulette. Your babe can turn into a sour puss monster b*tch all the sudden. If you want love and compassion then get a pet instead. They will never divorce you.

I wonder if a man overpaid taxes to the IRS for three years when his kid was 15, then redid his tax returns after the kid turned 18, could he get a refund without it affecting child support.

Probably, the child support amount was set way back in the past and if his income falls he has to try to get the courts to hear his case. So did the men do, pay the IRS way too much before going before the judge to reduce the aftertax income on the tax return, then redo their taxes to get it back later, or just forgo the extra money and put a lower after tax income down on later tax returns?

I don't know dude. Some people I know overpay their yearly tax return and then the IRS send them a letter if they want to claim the credits..
they put the money on hold by not claiming tax credit and overpay the next year.. and so on and so forth. Until the kid turns 18.
Some people just transfer all their assets to their parents if they have good relationship or their cousins..that way the asset belongs to the parents not the husband. And some people do lot of cash based side hustles and declare little income just to avoid paying alimony and child support.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

So main point is don't marry and be a father in America. You are going to get royally screwed.
From cradle to the grave, the government is the "master pimp daddy" of all American women and American men are the clients or slaves or the stupid goyim. America is similar to Afghanistan for men.

[MrMan]

@WilliamSmith

True, but prenups in America doesn't mean sh*t for the man. The wife's lawyer and the judge will null and void the prenup if it is deemed "unfair" for the women in divorce cases. You still lose the 50% of the assets and have to pay the wife "the alimony" every month even if she is F*cking a different man. And you have to pay for "child support" every month until your kids turn 18 which the wife snatches from the children and use it as her own money. I know couple of guys who deliberately transfer all his assets to his mom and dad, overpay his taxes to the IRS and take on cash jobs just to avoid paying a hefty price.

Marriage is like a Russian Roulette. Your babe can turn into a sour puss monster b*tch all the sudden. If you want love and compassion then get a pet instead. They will never divorce you.

I wonder if a man overpaid taxes to the IRS for three years when his kid was 15, then redid his tax returns after the kid turned 18, could he get a refund without it affecting child support.

Probably, the child support amount was set way back in the past and if his income falls he has to try to get the courts to hear his case. So did the men do, pay the IRS way too much before going before the judge to reduce the aftertax income on the tax return, then redo their taxes to get it back later, or just forgo the extra money and put a lower after tax income down on later tax returns?

I don't know dude. Some people I know overpay their yearly tax return and then the IRS send them a letter if they want to claim the credits..
they put the money on hold by not claiming tax credit and overpay the next year.. and so on and so forth. Until the kid turns 18.
Some people just transfer all their assets to their parents if they have good relationship or their cousins..that way the asset belongs to the parents not the husband. And some people do lot of cash based side hustles and declare little income just to avoid paying alimony and child support.

I suppose it depends on the state, but is the state updating their income information based on men's tax returns, or does the judge just set it until one of the parties asks for the court to review it? I met an Englishman in Indonesia who had decided to work as a low-paid English teacher overseas because the government paid the same amount in child support if he had a low income, but would take more if he made more. So he opted for a cheap lifestyle in terms of pounds. I think we were both on a boat during some national vacation days having this conversation.

[MrMan]

So main point is don't marry and be a father in America. You are going to get royally screwed.
From cradle to the grave, the government is the "master pimp daddy" of all American women and American men are the clients or slaves or the stupid goyim. America is similar to Afghanistan for men.

If a man really wants to get married and have kids and doesn't for those reasons, that sounds like either foolishness or cowardice or a combination of both to me. I mean, some men don't want to marry. But you could also argue that you might get hit by a car and get injured if you cross a street. Just look at how heavy cars are. Read the figures on the physics of the impact of an automobile. But you can do things to mitigate your risk, like looking both ways. You can wear a seatbelt when you drive and you are an active participant in decreasing the chances of an accident.

I didn't marry an Indonesian to decrease my chances of divorce, but depending on the religion and people-group, divorce rates are lower. Also, those who regularly attend church have lower divorce rates. There is a non-peer-reviewed study that Christians who pray together regularly have low divorce rates. I think it was around 1%, more of a straw poll type thing but a reasonably large sample size.

Also, if one is really concerned and lives abroad, divorce rates can be much lower without the child support laws.

I've been married to one pretty woman for over 20 years. I get a reasonably steady supply of sex. The periods over and it is Valentine's Day, so I am anticipating some action in the next several hours. I ate my wife's amazing cooking today-- 'shabu shabu' hotpot. She cooks all kinds of wonderful food.

I have relationships with my family. I have several kids to have relationships with when I get old, and a chance, Lord willing, for grandchildren.

I suppose I could be sitting in a chair alone today, petting a dog, watching a recorded video of the Superbowl all by myself today if I'd decided to follow a MGTOW route.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

So main point is don't marry and be a father in America. You are going to get royally screwed.
From cradle to the grave, the government is the "master pimp daddy" of all American women and American men are the clients or slaves or the stupid goyim. America is similar to Afghanistan for men.

If a man really wants to get married and have kids and doesn't for those reasons, that sounds like either foolishness or cowardice or a combination of both to me. I mean, some men don't want to marry. But you could also argue that you might get hit by a car and get injured if you cross a street. Just look at how heavy cars are. Read the figures on the physics of the impact of an automobile. But you can do things to mitigate your risk, like looking both ways. You can wear a seatbelt when you drive and you are an active participant in decreasing the chances of an accident.

I didn't marry an Indonesian to decrease my chances of divorce, but depending on the religion and people-group, divorce rates are lower. Also, those who regularly attend church have lower divorce rates. There is a non-peer-reviewed study that Christians who pray together regularly have low divorce rates. I think it was around 1%, more of a straw poll type thing but a reasonably large sample size.

Also, if one is really concerned and lives abroad, divorce rates can be much lower without the child support laws.

I've been married to one pretty woman for over 20 years. I get a reasonably steady supply of sex. The periods over and it is Valentine's Day, so I am anticipating some action in the next several hours. I ate my wife's amazing cooking today-- 'shabu shabu' hotpot. She cooks all kinds of wonderful food.

I have relationships with my family. I have several kids to have relationships with when I get old, and a chance, Lord willing, for grandchildren.

I suppose I could be sitting in a chair alone today, petting a dog, watching a recorded video of the Superbowl all by myself today if I'd decided to follow a MGTOW route.

I am not being a coward. I am just telling you and other people the reality. If you make an investment, you better measure what you get in return of it. Marrying a women in America is terrible Return of Investment. And what does your car analogy have to do with marriage? I don't understand. That's how it is in America and other Western countries. That's why some white people go abroad and marry women that still care about their men such as you, Yohan, Public duende, and others. You said it yourself Indonesian women are less likely to divorce and there is this English guy who takes low paying English job to avoid paying alimony to his wife back home.

I am just a messenger. If you want to F*ck Americunts then go ahead I don't care. But I have warned you. That's that.

[Pixel--Dude]

Big shout out on fathers day for some of the dads on the forum such as @MarcosZeitola, @MrMan and @Winston. I can't think of anyone else who is a father, so apologies if I didn't include anyone.

If your kids are old enough what will they be doing for you for fathers day? Will you be doing anything for your own fathers today?

[MarcosZeitola]

Big shout out on fathers day for some of the dads on the forum such as @MarcosZeitola, @MrMan and @Winston. I can't think of anyone else who is a father, so apologies if I didn't include anyone.

If your kids are old enough what will they be doing for you for fathers day? Will you be doing anything for your own fathers today?

Happy Father's Day to you as well, brother. A small and intimate celebration of fatherhood for me today. Some presents from some of the older kids. Hugs from the younger ones. Their mere existence and continued good health is all I could ask for in life. I'm a blessed man. God is good. Life is good. The universe must love me.

[Pixel--Dude]

Big shout out on fathers day for some of the dads on the forum such as @MarcosZeitola, @MrMan and @Winston. I can't think of anyone else who is a father, so apologies if I didn't include anyone.

If your kids are old enough what will they be doing for you for fathers day? Will you be doing anything for your own fathers today?

Happy Father's Day to you as well, brother. A small and intimate celebration of fatherhood for me today. Some presents from some of the older kids. Hugs from the younger ones. Their mere existence and continued good health is all I could ask for in life. I'm a blessed man. God is good. Life is good. The universe must love me.

Wholesome message, dude! I hope you enjoy your day with your kids. There's not really anything which brings a better sense of fulfillment. Like I said in my thread about love, I think the love between a parent and their children is one of the most intense kinds. For me personally, anyway. I don't think I could ever love anyone or anything as much as I love my little girl.

[MarcosZeitola]

Wholesome message, dude! I hope you enjoy your day with your kids. There's not really anything which brings a better sense of fulfillment. Like I said in my thread about love, I think the love between a parent and their children is one of the most intense kinds. For me personally, anyway. I don't think I could ever love anyone or anything as much as I love my little girl.

True. And it seems with each child I father, I multiply my potential to love, it's truly remarkable. Nothing really makes me happier or gives me greater fulfillment, all things considered. Love, happiness, beauty, good company. All the rest is pointless.

[MrMan]

Big shout out on fathers day for some of the dads on the forum such as @MarcosZeitola, @MrMan and @Winston. I can't think of anyone else who is a father, so apologies if I didn't include anyone.

If your kids are old enough what will they be doing for you for fathers day? Will you be doing anything for your own fathers today?

Thanks,

We went out for Vietnamese food. One of my older children paid for hers and mine. But going out for father's day really means I pay for it. I took the family out with my dad yesterday.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

Like I said.. Don't have kids. Wear a condom during sex, so you don't wind up like Winston hating on his own son.