Biggest Mystery: If the USA dating scene is unwinnable, how does everyone have a wife and family?!

[kangarunner]

@Winston I got an answer to why dating is unwinnable......

YOURE NOT THAT GUY PAL.....TRUST ME.....YOURE NOT THAT GUY.

[MrMan]

Another key point I forgot to add to the first post:

The big IRONY here is that if you are not even allowed to go out and get dates or approach women -- because talking to female strangers in America is seen as taboo, inappropriate, and violating -- then how are you supposed to win at the dating scene? That's like expecting you to score in baseball, but not being allowed to get up to bat. Or expecting you to win in chess but not being allowed to even play. Etc. You get the idea. It's highly illogical and self-contradictory. But of course, America does not admit that women are unapproachable, even though they obviously are, and anyone who goes out in public can see that. Because America always denies the truth since everything seems to be Satanically inversed in America. Hence the US dating scene is unwinnable, self-defeating, and self-contradictory too. A total mindfuck basically.

If I were single and looking for a woman, I'd get involved at church, which I do already, and see if there were any single women there, and maybe even ask around through Christian friends if they knew anyone who was single who met my criteria. I could say I was looking for a Christian, and maybe even get away with saying I was looking for a virgin with no tattoos. I'm not sure how people would respond to the freakishly beautiful criteria.

A man can also meet women through volunteering at charities, civic organizations, or whatever. If you have friends, you can ask to be set up with their cousins.

We have people over for dinner from church. When we lived away from my family, we'd invite singles over for Thanksgiving dinner. With two or three different men, my wife ended up showing them pictures of her single friends and cousins on Facebook. The bachelor had to impress her as being a man who was ready to marry, able to support a woman, with character, good values. She probably considered looks also.

My wife had a female friend who had a daughter in Singapore who had just graduated college in the US, a pretty young woman in her early 20's. She tried to set him up with one of these bachelors. He wanted to insist on calling her on the phone rather than Facebook, thinking she was rejecting him with that suggestion. I explained that you have to pay cell phone rates for incoming calls and Facebook was cheap there. Plus she'd get to see his face. But apparently she was busy or not that interested or he didn't pursue her enough. He was expecting her to just start talking with him and to move toward marriage. I told him at 40 something he might have been a bit more eager to get on with this part of her life than she was in her early 20's.

She's had no real successes with matchmaking that I can think of yet. But it illustrates how people from some Asian cultures might be willing to set you up or make an introduction if you seem like a decent guy.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

Winston, your guess is good as mine.
I don't know how everyone else gets girlfriends and wives in this country. I tried getting girls in church, but even they say they have boyfriends or taken. Same thing at my job and at the bar. I guess they import women from abroad to America (which will inevitably turn woman into a 300 pound, man hating, feminist shrew) or their family or religious organization arranges the dates.

[dancilley]

you are not even allowed to go out and get dates or approach women -- because talking to female strangers in America is seen as taboo, inappropriate, and violating

I am quitting the internet very soon. What I am going to do, is go out and start to talk to people around me. I am going to refuse to believe in such limiting beliefs, that it is taboo to talk to females. I am just going to assume it's natural and normal, and I am also going to convince people to quit the internet also. I am going to explain to them that they are grumpy and irritable because they are addicted to their phone. My healthy and happy personality will, in the end, convince them to quit the internet and electronic screen use because everyone knows subconsciously that these technologies are anti-romance, geeky, nerdy, distracting, an addiction, ungodly, unhealthy, promote sedentary lifestyles, make you lazy, etc. and they believe deep down that they want to get rid of them and live without them, anyway.

[WilliamSmith]

Being a jerk in America will get you women. There's nothing worse than being an overly nice guy. They hate that.

I know you're right that many guys have a strategy of being a "bad boy" or a jerk that does get them some kinds of women, so I'm not delusional in denying that, even though I am not crazy about that approach, but I am 100% certain from watching dozens of other types of guys getting good-looking women (not just from my personal experience) that the men being "nice" or kind isn't the actual root of the problem.

Some of the guys I've noticed with very attractive girls who wouldn't be my type of girls, but were still objectively really hot, were definitely "nice."

For example, little civilized middle class guys in silk shirts with rather annoyingly high voices with hot girlfriends, not the type I'd have had any interest in myself, but they were definitely objectively hot, especially from the POV of the many men out who like slender pretty women who have a more "soft" take on feminity.

That's on the far side of nice guys who aren't even all that masculine at all though.

Other guys who have a relaxed masculine sense of confidence (I've especially noticed that with older men) also aren't doing anything that's not "nice," even if they're not falling into the trap of supplicating or coming across like they're seeking women's approval too much.

So I don't think there's anything stopping manlier men from getting away with being "nice" overall, in a gentlemanly sense. @Outcast9428 don't you agree on this? He's heavily on the idealistic side (not that that is a bad thing), likes being romantic, but he still gets women.

This did remind me of the scene in Army of One though, where the Italian chick is breaking up with her handsome but (from her POV) "too nice" boyfriend Michael:
Italian Chick: "I'm sorry Michael, you're just too nice... too comfortable."
Michael: "What's wrong with nice? What's wrong with comfortable?"

Poor Michael, it made me sad for him, even though it was, you know, kind of a funny scene.

[Lucas88]

So I don't think there's anything stopping manlier men from getting away with being "nice" overall, in a gentlemanly sense. @Outcast9428 don't you agree on this? He's heavily on the idealistic side (not that that is a bad thing), likes being romantic, but he still gets women.

This did remind me of the scene in Army of One though, where the Italian chick is breaking up with her handsome but (from her POV) "too nice" boyfriend Michael:
Italian Chick: "I'm sorry Michael, you're just too nice... too comfortable."
Michael: "What's wrong with nice? What's wrong with comfortable?"

Poor Michael, it made me sad for him, even though it was, you know, kind of a funny scene.

I understand what you mean. I'm generally nice to women in the sense that I never intentionally act like a complete jerk with them but at the same time I'm never too nice with them and will always act dominant and sometimes playfully tease them. Women actually love this. It makes them giggle and see you as an alpha who isn't afraid to assert dominance in a totally healthy and playful way. You come across as fun and they don't perceive you as a boring-ass simp "nice guy".

Today I did something that reminded me of the above reflection. I owed my momma some money and decided to pay her back. Rather than handing the money to her like a normal person, instead like the crazy joker that I am I told her to open wide and then proceeded to place each of the bank notes sideways in her mouth. She just let me do it and even thought that it was hilarious. It reminded me of something that I'd do to one of my Latin American girlfriends. I'd always play tricks on them and do funny things to make them laugh while at the same time coming across as a bit of a jerk in a playful manner. The truth is that they always loved it. It's best to be fun and a bit roguish in the sense of a loveable rogue.

That's how my stud uncle is. I like to imitate his behavior since he's always been extremely popular with the ladies.

[rainbanx]

@Winston I got an answer to why dating is unwinnable......

YOURE NOT THAT GUY PAL.....TRUST ME.....YOURE NOT THAT GUY.

Its insane how people in America had became so negative and dysfunctional. We no need more male/female Karen's or Negative Nancy in this world

[Winston]

@MarcosZeitola and @publicduende:

Besides my looks, race, and weird eccentric personality, what about the 9 points outlined in my OP about American women and the US dating scene and unfriendliness? Aren't they true or semi-true or partially true too? How come you skipped over them to focus on me only? There definitely is truth in those 9 points. I didn't hallucinate them right? What do you think?

You should also consider that for all of Europe's faults and degradation, it is nowhere near as unfriendly, toxic, antisocial or mean-spirited as America is. You should consider that. No joke.

[Jackfruits]

1. Every Asian guy I know in the SF Bay Area married an Asian woman there, after going to a good university and getting a good job and being a good normie citizen. As you know, most Asian men are not good looking but kind of nerdy and dorky looking. How can that be?

2. Are most married men tall and handsome? Think about it. Look around you.

3. Most of the guys on this forum are white or black. Yet they find the dating scene in America unwinnable too. How do you explain that? It may not all be about their looks. They may have personality or mental issues too. So may I. It doesn't mean Aspergers, just some mental issues that block them from riding the normie wave that everyone else is able to, or tuning into the same frequency that normal people are.

4. How come most American women say this about their husbands: "When I met him, I thought he wasn't my type. But somehow I became drawn to him or grew to love him." I'm sure you've heard them say that before. How do you explain that? Doesn't that indicate that it wasn't about looks?

Of course my looks are a factor. But I could have mental issues too. Most of my friends don't think I have Aspergers, but other issues. So I may not be an aspie but I could have other mental issues that prevent me from riding the normie wave or frequency that most people are on. I'm not saying all normies are the same or of one mind. However, they all seem to be tuned to some frequency and flow that we are NOT attuned to for some reason, possibly because of our mental issues. What do you think?

You are right about one thing MZ. In SE Asia I am considered better looking than in America. There I'm considered decent looking, not bad, or cute, by many girls. Whereas in America everyone says "You're not my type" including Asian American women.

1. not all asian men are overweight and dorky looking as you winston & your voice tone is actually not masculine (you can easily correct by hitting the gym more); look at those asian movies. Also bruce lee (still adored by many) and Viktor Tsoi was the biggest rockstar of the USSR and still is a folk hero in FSU countries (wanting revolution).
2. it is great what winston has achieved with his new found fame in the 90s/ early 2000s.
3. beta males; that's what we become, maybe once we were chads as teenagers but that time is long gone with the daily grind
4. men have become providers, likely those women were f***ing other guys and eventually decided to marry a provider type for ease of life

But @Winston are you still chasing working women in angeles or have you chosen to find a normal wife type girl?

[Yohan]

But @Winston are you still chasing working women in angeles or have you chosen to find a normal wife type girl?

As far as I know, Winston is married with a Filipina and has one son with her....

[Jackfruits]

But @Winston are you still chasing working women in angeles or have you chosen to find a normal wife type girl?

As far as I know, Winston is married with a Filipina and has one son with her....

that was ages ago (his old rants and raves were about she squandering money like crazy and later some people talking about their divorce), he posted some months ago some photos of a different girl in his bedroom

[kangarunner]

@Winston This was an email I got:

The title of the email is: the #1 Reason why Western Women Suck

Yes, this is a generalization.
Yes, it depends.
Yes, there are exceptions.
Yes, this is not the whole story.
Yes, this is just my experience and my opinion.

I am spending time in Latin America away from the madness in Europe,
and really relish how feminine the women are here,
how not PC this society is,
how highly contextual the culture of conversation is....

However, whenever asked about what the main difference is between the women here and the women in the West, I give the same answer as when asked about the difference between Western women and women in Romania, in Kenya or in Japan:

Western women have a sense of entitlement that is absent in other cultures.

What do I mean by that?

Western women seem to feel they deserve success in the realm of romance and love, and that it is the man's job to give it to them.

This sense of entitlement f***s up their love-life and that of the men who have to deal with them, both in meeting, dating and in long term relationships.

For example, have you experienced how hard it is to approach a woman in the West? It is not uncommon for a woman to completely ignore you when you walk up to her and speak your truth.

On the streets of Colombia,
not 1 woman I approached has ignored me.

Have you experienced how dating a woman in the West is like doing a job interview?
As if you are applying for the job of the boyfriend and she is checking your credentials to see if she will give you the position.

In Medellin, every date I have been on, the woman was playing along with me in the dance that is seduction. Not once did a woman have a "prove to me that you are worthy" attitude.

I have been in several long term relationships with Latina women as well, and I never felt disrespected by any of them.
In contrast, I have seen on so many occasions Western women not honoring their man in their relationships... it is painful to see.

By the way, I am not blaming women for this. Just describing the relational mess we find ourselves in in the West.

With Western women it's like coming to the dance, but you actually have to convince her to dance with you, and you have to fight to keep leadership while dancing. Love is in many ways a battle, and not a dance in the West.

In Latin America, in Eastern Europe, in Asia and in Africa, you go to the dance, and you invite. When the invitation is accepted, she surrenders and you lead. This is very enjoyable, graceful, and beautiful place to grow as a man, as a leader.

-------------

That email was written by an international dating coach from Belgium. He nailed it about "the dance". Western women don't accept invitations to the dance. They don't want to dance at all or be feminine at all. Women in other countries surrender into their feminine and know their role in the dance which is to let the man take the lead.

[Winston]

But @Winston are you still chasing working women in angeles or have you chosen to find a normal wife type girl?

As far as I know, Winston is married with a Filipina and has one son with her....

I was never married to Dianne. We were like live in common law partners. I heard in Europe many couples are not married and just live together as common law domestic partners. Because they realized that involving the state in your relationship via a marriage license is not a good idea.

[gsjackson]

@Winston This was an email I got:

The title of the email is: the #1 Reason why Western Women Suck

Yes, this is a generalization.
Yes, it depends.
Yes, there are exceptions.
Yes, this is not the whole story.
Yes, this is just my experience and my opinion.

I am spending time in Latin America away from the madness in Europe,
and really relish how feminine the women are here,
how not PC this society is,
how highly contextual the culture of conversation is....

However, whenever asked about what the main difference is between the women here and the women in the West, I give the same answer as when asked about the difference between Western women and women in Romania, in Kenya or in Japan:

Western women have a sense of entitlement that is absent in other cultures.

What do I mean by that?

Western women seem to feel they deserve success in the realm of romance and love, and that it is the man's job to give it to them.

This sense of entitlement f***s up their love-life and that of the men who have to deal with them, both in meeting, dating and in long term relationships.

For example, have you experienced how hard it is to approach a woman in the West? It is not uncommon for a woman to completely ignore you when you walk up to her and speak your truth.

On the streets of Colombia,
not 1 woman I approached has ignored me.

Have you experienced how dating a woman in the West is like doing a job interview?
As if you are applying for the job of the boyfriend and she is checking your credentials to see if she will give you the position.

In Medellin, every date I have been on, the woman was playing along with me in the dance that is seduction. Not once did a woman have a "prove to me that you are worthy" attitude.

I have been in several long term relationships with Latina women as well, and I never felt disrespected by any of them.
In contrast, I have seen on so many occasions Western women not honoring their man in their relationships... it is painful to see.

By the way, I am not blaming women for this. Just describing the relational mess we find ourselves in in the West.

With Western women it's like coming to the dance, but you actually have to convince her to dance with you, and you have to fight to keep leadership while dancing. Love is in many ways a battle, and not a dance in the West.

In Latin America, in Eastern Europe, in Asia and in Africa, you go to the dance, and you invite. When the invitation is accepted, she surrenders and you lead. This is very enjoyable, graceful, and beautiful place to grow as a man, as a leader.

-------------

That email was written by an international dating coach from Belgium. He nailed it about "the dance". Western women don't accept invitations to the dance. They don't want to dance at all or be feminine at all. Women in other countries surrender into their feminine and know their role in the dance which is to let the man take the lead.

I generally regard Hans Comyn as a bullshit artist, but he nails this point. I'm surprised he replied at such length unless you were paying him.

[kangarunner]

I generally regard Hans Comyn as a bullshit artist, but he nails this point. I'm surprised he replied at such length unless you were paying him.

There's nothing bullshit about Hans and I doubt you would say that to him in person.