Winston in China! Updates and Photos

[smallcheese]

I must add though that smallcheese and Winston are taking it too personally.

Sorry Droid but I'll have to disagree with you on this. I'm not taking it personally but I love a good debate.

Unlike Winston, I try to avoid using foul language, insults and name calling to get my points across. I don't use words like "asswipe" or call someone a "stupid a*s". That's just immature, idiotic and infantile. Check my responses and you'll see that I rarely use words like that and if I do, it's often in humor. If what I write seems personal, then that means that even by using normal English language, I'm still getting my points across and they are just as effective, caustic and sometimes insulting.

I really don't care what Winston does with his life. It's none of my business. But I truly hope Winston finds a woman that he can spend the rest of his life with. He deserves to find happiness, just as many men do who are trapped in Westernized, femnazi dominated social deserts like the U.S., Canada, England, Australia, etc.

I just believe he will ultimately fail, based on what I've read of his past behavior, past actions and current thinking. He still seems preoccupied with sex and that is clouding his thinking in searching for a wife in China. But that's just my opinion. Take it for the grain of salt that it is.

Very few people on this forum seem willing to call out Winston on his BS when he starts going off on one of his diatribes. But I'm not. I'll chime in if I have time and think it's worth talking about.

If this forum is for people (mostly men) who want a life happier abroad, don't they deserve to hear all thoughts and opinions, even those that differ from the founder of this site?

Winston's opinion is only one of many but I think readers of this forum should hear from anyone who is happier abroad, like myself and others who are willing to share their experiences. I left the U.S. a few months before 9/11 and I've never looked back. I've visited so many countries since then that I'm not allowed to add any more page refills to my passport. Last year, I married a well educated, smart and gorgeous Filipina soon after she turned 21. A former beauty pageant winner in her province, she's studying for her masters now while teaching English and other subjects at the college level. I met my wife when she was 19 and I am easily more than double her age.

I'm truly happier abroad!

I believe that only after learning from many people's experiences (not just Winston's) outside their home country, can one then make a truly informed decision about whether or not he wants to go abroad. Am I wrong to think this way?

[zboy1]

It DOESN"T MATTER if Winston is attractive or unattractive.
Even Winston himself has noted that many dorky and unattractive guys in China and other Asian countries stlll get women.
And Winston complains about that in an envious fashion.
I have also seen it with my own eyes.
You don't need to be really handsome to get women in China.

Excellent points, but it must be clarified those dorky guys are generally not getting casual sex, they're at the very least in a semi-committed relationship.
For casual sex you need to stand out -almost by definition- since 'easier' girls look more for looks/charm than for intellectuality or 'innane observations'. How cannot he see that as a "master of logic"?
He cannot see the logic either in that improving your looks and demeanor will improve the chances of getting more and better looking women, regardless of the location, it WILL be better, that's an undisputable fact.
How can someone be a "master of logic" and still believe in "demons" and "curses" while ignoring more readily available evidence and information?

I must add though that smallcheese and Winston are taking it too personally.

That's not true. You obviously have never been to China, droid. Dorky guys do okay here and you even have Chinese men who are ugly, but score easily here. It's not a sausage fest like it is in the States.

[Winston]

Hi everyone,
I'm in dongguan now which is Zboy1s town. It's more quiet and laid back here. A friendly sweet girl at the bus station helped me get a cab and gave me her number too. She was very wholesome.

I'll probably meet zboy for dinner later. It's nice to be in another town besides Shenzhen.

Last night I talked to MarcosZeitola for a few hours on skype and he can confirm that I have a likable personality that is very authentic, personable and engaging. I am not socially awkward at all but have good communication skills.

I was impressed that even though he is in his early 20s he sounds much more mature and down to earth and insightful than a typical guy in his 20s from USA or Asia. It just goes to show that Europeans are more down to earth and mature at an earlier age. I didn't know he was European. I thought he was American.

He and I agreed on almost everything. He agreed that even though I'm likable and easy to talk to and make women comfortable, I'm not the kind of guy that turns women on sexually or physically. So its a case of who I am, not what I'm doing wrong.

Also it seems that men tend to appreciate and value my qualities more than women do. So I'm more likable to men than women. Being a deep genuine freethinker type is more likely to appeal to men than women. This site is an example, since men appreciate the value of happier abroad more than women do obviously.

Either way, I'm a very likable guy with a good personality. Not socially awkward like some of you want to think or as some of you are projecting onto me.

I'd like to talk to smallcheese sometime to see if he's down to earth or acts like an arrogant know it all like a typical expat. I highly doubt that he is down to earth. He is way too condescending and uses unfair ad hominem attacks on me. He probably is not that mature too. We will see. I'll pm him my Skype info.

Smallcheese, you sound immature. Why are you using ad hominem attacks and going off on a diatribe about how you are a better father than me? That's irrelevant to this thread and it sounds like you are just fishing for excuses to be condescending to me.

FYI, Rock was not saying that women see me as stingy as a fact. He was just speculating and throwing out some ideas. He wasn't stating it as a fact.

Rock has observed that women seem to like to use me. Something about me tells them that I'm easy to use and manipulate. So they see me as usable. I don't know why. But it's not my fault or a result of something I do wrong. So stop the victim blaming.

[Winston]

Some interesting updates:

First of all, I wrote about 40 chinese women this week on plenty of fish. And guess what? About 20 of them wrote me back. So I got a 50 percent response rate, which is HUGE!

What this means is that I must be considered a good catch in China! I've never had a 50 percent response rate on a dating site before. That's a very good sign. So why are so many of you so negative and down on me?

Second, I never said I was unhappy in China. My social life and dating life here is definitely 1000 times better than in Taiwan or USA. I just complain about not getting sex. So put that in perspective.

Also keep in mind that Falcon is young and thin and tall and socially engaging too, like Ethan. Yet he cannot figure out how to get romantic or sexual with Chinese women either. He even started a thread called "how to initiate dating with Chinese women?" so I'm not the only one who cant get sex here. So don't make it out like I'm the only one who cant get laid in China.

Finally you guys need to keep in mind that the nerdy look is not considered unattractive in Chinese culture. Nerdy guys look smart and look like they can get a good job and make money. So that's a plus to chinese women. So don't mix up chinese culture with American culture. They are very different. Keep that in mind.

Thus it's not surprising to see nerdy guys with hot girls in china. Such guys can make a good income as computer engineers or computer programmers or electrical engineers. Etc. So chinese women must value that.

[smallcheese]

I'd like to talk to smallcheese sometime to see if he's down to earth or acts like an arrogant know it all like a typical expat. I highly doubt that he is down to earth. He is way too condescending and uses unfair ad hominem attacks on me. He probably is not that mature too. We will see. I'll pm him my Skype info.

I guess you're not even bothering to keep an open mind before talking to me. You'll just be looking for anything that will confirm your preconceived notions about me. No big deal. It's what I expect based on what I've read about you. I'm still fine with talking to you if you still want to do that. If not, that's ok too.

Smallcheese, you sound immature. Why are you using ad hominem attacks and going off on a diatribe about how you are a better father than me? That's irrelevant to this thread and it sounds like you are just fishing for excuses to be condescending to me.

Ad hominem attacks? Yes of course but you deserve it!

Weren't you the one who was offering life lessons to me? Presumptuous and condescending on your part don't you think? Especially since I'm older than you and you had no idea who I was.

Weren't you the one who assumed that I must still be living in my parents' basement? Weren't you the one who assumed that I had little or no experience with women?

I'm reacting to your words, not mine. What am I supposed to do? Just sit around and take it while you attack me?

If you didn't start it, I wouldn't have said anything. If you want to dish it out, you need to be able to take it too.

And where did I say I was a better father than you? Please show me where I said that. I must be getting blind in my old age. I don't see it. Why do you put words in my mouth when I never said that? Since you knew nothing about me but still decided to disparage me without conducting any research first, I had to give a little biography about who I was. Talking about my reasons for staying in Hong Kong to raise my children is a big part of who I am.

It was my personal choice to stay with my boys here and I contrasted that with your choice to leave your son with his mother. I wouldn't have made the choice that you made but that's me. Like I said, it's your life and you can choose to do whatever you want to do with your son.

That doesn't make me a better father than you, just a father who made a different life choice than you. In the end, I believe a higher authority than us will pass judgment on who the better father might be.

FYI, Rock was not saying that women see me as stingy as a fact. He was just speculating and throwing out some ideas. He wasn't stating it as a fact.

Rock has observed that women seem to like to use me. Something about me tells them that I'm easy to use and manipulate. So they see me as usable. I don't know why. But it's not my fault or a result of something I do wrong. So stop the victim blaming.

If that's what Rock meant, I'll have to take your word for it. He's your friend, not mine. He hasn't said anything else on this thread so I have to assume you're speaking on his behalf.

But if women are using you repeatedly, then yes, I think you deserve most of the blame as the victim. You're a man and you should have learned from previous encounters with women who have used you. Have you ever heard the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."? That applies here if you allow women to take advantage of you repeatedly.

P.S. I'm still waiting for your PM. FYI after tonight, I won't be able to talk on Skype again until Sunday.

[Banano]

50% response rate on pof? Wow, thats huge.

I never heard anyone usin pof in asia? Is it popular site like it is in the west.

You should be able to lay at least 20% of them.

What is quality like, can you send us some photos

[Rock]

Allow me to clarify what I said earlier about Winston. Again this is only my SPECULATION based on the way he seems to act AT TIMES when I'm around him. Ethan and zboy1, please confirm whether or not he's at all like this in front of Chinese girls you've seen him around.

It's not purely about being stingy. It's more about being indecisive and slow, sometimes seeming a bit muddle headed.

I believe a lot of Chinese and Taiwanese girls respect a guy who appears to be 干脆 gancui (direct and to the point) and 大方 dafang (generous and easy mannered, natural and relaxed). They also like a guy who can manage to lead them, like he knows what he's doing as if it's second nature. In the past when I've had upcoming first dates with girls I really wanted to hit it off with, I would sometimes invest some planning and even rehearsal time, making sure I had a Plan A, Plan B, etc. and knowing well the venues I intended to take her too. That way I could avoid ever looking confused. I would also try to learn a bit about the girl beforehand if possible (via a few strategic questions, checking her FB, researching her school or company, etc.). The idea was to come-off as natural spontaneous and smooth, as if I knew what I was doing and could make her feel comfortable and taken care of under my leadership. A lot of this was conveyed using simple body language.

Now if you come across as indecisive, small minded, confused, and/or lost, lacking any direction or vision, that can really annoy a Chinese girl. If they describe a guy using adjectives such as 小气 xiao qi (stingy, petty, narrow minded), 孩子气 haizi qi (childish), 不够稳重 bu gou wen zhong (unstable) and then qualify all this by saying 在他这个年纪 zai ta zhege nianji (at his age), that is BAD and they don't have much respect for you.

Now if you are the Chinese stud type and/or younger ala Ethan, you can probably achieve a fair number of pulls and one night stands or even attract some gals who wanna be with you in spite of having some or all of these undesirable behavior traits or qualities. It's a package analysis. If you come short on one end of the stick, you better somehow compensate in another area.

Winston, if possible, try to meet some successful (with women) guys in your age group (expats or locals) and pick their brains. You definitely could improve your results with the right changes I believe. Remember, it took Monkro a long time (many months at least) before he started getting real traction with the Taiwan girls he so loves.

Keep an open mind. This is meant to be constructive so don't pick it apart for it's flaws but rather take what of any value it might have to you and use it in your favor.

[Rock]

Also, if a girl talks about all this buying a house nonsense and other material topics, don't be visibly flustered by it. Just stay cool and smoothly change the topic. It might just be a test of your mettle, to see whether or not you are willing to submit to the provider role and too weak too assert your value as a man. Act like it's a non-issue. If she keeps coming back to it, you know she's a hard-core calculator and probably not worth wasting your time on. But if can get her to submit to your lead, it can still be alright.

Some Chinese guys may trick girls into thinking they will do all these things but later just bolt. There's a lot of suspicion and doubt. Girls there are probably not nearly as trusting as Filipinas, especially in places like Shenzhen. If you become one of these tricksters, you will have future bad karma to deal with.

[Rock]

I mentioned getting respect. Does respect = attraction??? No! But, it helps, it really does. And on borderline marginal cases, it can be the make or break factor.

If a girl is considering you as a romantic prospect, getting her respect and admiration can be a DEAL MAKER while putting her off by annoying her can be a DEAL BREAKER. Chinese girls seem to be more left brain dominant than girls in many if not most other cultures. So these rational factors do have a material impact on results even in the realm of romance.

You're in Mainland China. Don't forget that.

[Banano]

Whats easiest place in china to score?

I dont hear people bragging abt china abt easy lays so im just wondering.

[smallcheese]

I mentioned getting respect. Does respect = attraction??? No! But, it helps, it really does. And on borderline marginal cases, it can be the make or break factor.

If a girl is considering you as a romantic prospect, getting her respect and admiration can be a DEAL MAKER while putting her off by annoying her can be a DEAL BREAKER. Chinese girls seem to be more left brain dominant than girls in many if not most other cultures. So these rational factors do have a material impact on results even in the realm of romance.

You're in Mainland China. Don't forget that.

Wow Rock, you really have great insights into the minds of Chinese women! As a man who's dealt with Westernized and mainland Chinese women for 30+ years in the U.S. and abroad, I can tell you that Rock's insights are spot on.

Hopefully your friend Winston will take your advice to heart and implement tactics that work best for him.

I'm sure if I gave him any advice on anything like this, he'd be jumping through the monitor and down my throat already, yelling and screaming at me, calling me an asswipe and stupid ass.

[Banano]

From my limited experience with chinese women I can say that they are the least romantic and most pragmatic women out there and I dont find those traits particularly attractive. They are walking calculators.

[Winston]

Update:

Wow. Tonight me and zboy walked around and cold approached girls on various streets around my hotel area in dongguan. We got about 5 or 6 phone numbers and wechat contacts. That's a record high. I never got that many in one day before.

The girls do seem more relaxed here in dongguan as zboy claimed, and sweet as well. One of them even started talking to us in McDonald's when she heard us talking about girls in English. Lol

But it's a lot of work and time trying to maintain chats with multiple girls and building kino, as rock would say.

Smallcheese, no that's not true. Rocks advice was more constructive. But yours is condescending and full of false assumptions and blaming and bashing. You can't compare you and him at all. I do not lash out unless you do first. I am a mirror. You do not realize how you are coming across. Most of your advice is actually bashing based on wrong assumptions, not helpful advice.

Rock said your advice about projecting money and power in the sugar daddy role was a bad one. Remember?

Banano, yes plenty of fish covers all countries including Asia and China. You can do a search yourself on there. http://www.pof.com

[ethan_sg]

Winston's been taking a lot of stick on this thread but I must give him at least some credit.

Winston has very thick skin and is pretty brave in cold approaching random women on the streets. No matter how awkward or seemingly inappropriate the situation, little seems to phase him and I think he should get credit for that. He has cold approached tons of women in Shenzhen and taken his fair share of rejections but has also gotten a fair number of wechat contacts from girls here that way. No matter how random the situation or 'busy' a look the girl may have, as long as he thinks she's cute he will say something to her. Granted he may not always do it in the sleekest or smoothest of ways, but you don't always have to in China - there is a higher level of instant familiarity among strangers than there is in say, Singapore or the U.S.

The girls don't always fully get what he's saying because of his less than perfect Mandarin but then I come in and make conversation with the girl and explain what Winston's trying to say and then the girl starts warming up to us. For instance the other day on the street, he randomly approached this cute girl with a luggage bag on the street in the Guomao area in Shenzhen (busy downtown part of Shenzhen). It was the most random thing but she was quite responsive to us and then asked us if she could borrow a mobile phone because hers was out of battery. So I lent her mine and then she told us that we should have a drink together, we then sat together at the nearby KFC and talked. Before long we then invited her to have dinner with us together at a nearby Italian restaurant and she readily agreed. We got her wechat contact and over the last few days I've been having talking a lot to her and just like that she becomes another decent dating prospect. Credit where credit is due, Winston is actually a pretty good wing-man in a place like China despite the language handicap!

I do agree with Rock though that perhaps Winston could come across as a little more decisive and leader-like when interacting with a girl - that is a very important signal of masculinity to a woman and therefore whenever on dates, no matter how difficult some choices may seem, I always try to make a decision as soon as possible - whereas I may not be as decisive if I was with a male-friend - I think that kinda thing is hugely important when on initial dates with a girl.

May also take a visit to Dongguan to visit Winston and Zboy1 soon - Zboy1 is very positive about the place and I would definitely like to see what it's like. To me it's all a matter of degree. Shenzhen is surely a far better place than feminist developed cities but Dongguan would probably be even better than Shenzhen in terms of friendliness and down-to-earth girls.

So credit where credit is due - Winston is actually a pretty bold cold-approacher, not the sleekest or smoothest but definitely brave and thick-skinned, and a great wing-man to have around

[chanta76]

I don't get it. If Winston is cold approaching and able to get numbers and even he said he is getting dates so what's the problem?
It's like a numbers game. For guys who are not too good looking has to play the numbers more. So the solution is to approach more.

So what's the complaint Winston. I mean if your getting dates or numbers as you claim your doing OK.