Winston in China! Updates and Photos

[pete98146]

I don't get it. If Winston is cold approaching and able to get numbers and even he said he is getting dates so what's the problem?

1) Getting out of the friend zone 2) Getting their knickers off....

[chanta76]

OK..

Ethan,

From reading others post your supposedly a really good looking guy and Winston is your wing man. From my experience anytime I winged with a good looking guy the girl or girls tend to gravitate to the good looking guy so I get stuck just cock blocking anyone else trying to interrupt. I'm not saying that Winston shouldn't wing with you and I don't know how you guys set it up but maybe help out Winston by having the girl focus on him. My guess is anytime you guys go out because your better looking the girls prefer you and Winston is just the ice breaker and you probably use Winston as the ice breaker to break into set. Just my thinking.

Winston,
To get out of the friendzone..from my experience you have to sex it up but slowly and not in a creepy way. For example even though you don't believe in PUA there are aspects that does work. You meet a girl and you say something funny for example and she is in good state high five her for example. It's the first touch later as you get closer touch her shoulder and lead her...as you walk down the street together which leads to hand holding.. before you go on a date always have a plan where to go ..what to do ..and interesting places to show or do..a .

You mentioned girls don't like to drink around you...one solution would be show her a bar that is unique and order two drinks ..wine or beer just order for her..this is where you lead and say cheers to something . If she doesn't drink she is being disrespectful and you should drop her. don't ask what a girl should drink ..unless if you guys decide not to drink or you decide not to drink.

In that case kino and slowly build connection..however you have that language problem. You should ask zboy how he does it.

[smallcheese]

Smallcheese, no that's not true. Rocks advice was more constructive. But yours is condescending and full of false assumptions and blaming and bashing. You can't compare you and him at all. I do not lash out unless you do first. I am a mirror. You do not realize how you are coming across. Most of your advice is actually bashing based on wrong assumptions, not helpful advice.

Rock said your advice about projecting money and power in the sugar daddy role was a bad one. Remember?

You already have a highly negative opinion of me. My point was that even if I gave you constructive advice like Rock's, it wouldn't matter. If you replaced Rock's name on the comments with my name, I believe that you would automatically assume that it was going to be condescending or bashing in some way. And you would gloss over the words that were written and react by immediately dismissing the advice or start cursing at me or start insulting me or start calling me names.

Why do I believe that? Where's my proof? Look at the threads. You've done that several times already, with me on this thread and with others on other threads.

Even before talking to me, you've already stated on this forum that you don't think I'll be down to earth. You think I'm too condescending. You think I won't be mature. So your opinion of me has already been formed without ever meeting me or talking to me first. What are you trying to prove by talking to me? That you're a fair, objective and open minded person? Who are you trying to fool here? Your mind is already made up about me. I don't believe you'll be open minded and fair but I'm still willing to talk to you.

Or maybe you want to talk to me so that afterwards, you can tell this forum that you were right all along. That I'm not down to earth. That I am condescending. That I'm immature. You can then proclaim that you tried your best and gave me a fair shot. Are you that devious? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. I've never met or talked to you so I can't really say. In any case, I'm still willing to talk to you if you'd like.

Talking about maturity, I'm not the one who said you were dumb. I'm not the one who called you an asswipe. I'm not the one who called you a stupid ass.

If I'm wrong about that, please show me where I resorted to cursing and name calling with you. Using language like dumb ass or asswipe. You can't because I don't act that way on forums or in real life. That's not who I am. That's not in my DNA.

I think in real life you would be cursing and using foul language as part of everyday conversation because that's part of your personality. That's who you are. Is that true?

In real life, if you met someone like me who you vehemently disagreed with and you felt that that person was putting you down, would you call that person an asswipe to his face? Would you call him dumb? Would you call him a stupid ass?

I highly doubt it. You don't strike me as someone courageous enough to say things like that to someone's face.

The anonymity and safety of an online forum allows people the opportunity to say things that they normally wouldn't say to a person's face. It emboldens them to be nastier and meaner to people, acting in ways they would never act like in real life for fear of reprisal. It enables cowards to act brave and courageous because there's no threat of physical harm or retaliation. Some people choose to remain respectful and professional in conversing with others in an online forum. Others do not.

Hey, this is your forum and your web site. So you can act however you please. If you like to curse out people you've never met before because you don't like what or how they say something to you, then you can do that.

But I'll never stoop to your level and do that to you. And yes, that is condescending.

P.S. If you and Rock believe that my advice about projecting money and power was bad, that's fine. I only offered my opinions. You can take it or leave it. At least I tried to answer your question.

I'm curious. Why can't you just say that you think my advice was bad and leave it at that? Why do you have to invoke someone else's name if you disagree with what someone says? Does using the name of a trusted friend like Rock or Ethan make you more credible?

[droid]

It DOESN"T MATTER if Winston is attractive or unattractive.
Even Winston himself has noted that many dorky and unattractive guys in China and other Asian countries stlll get women.
And Winston complains about that in an envious fashion.
I have also seen it with my own eyes.
You don't need to be really handsome to get women in China.

Excellent points, but it must be clarified those dorky guys are generally not getting casual sex, they're at the very least in a semi-committed relationship.
For casual sex you need to stand out -almost by definition- since 'easier' girls look more for looks/charm than for intellectuality or 'innane observations'. How cannot he see that as a "master of logic"?
He cannot see the logic either in that improving your looks and demeanor will improve the chances of getting more and better looking women, regardless of the location, it WILL be better, that's an undisputable fact.
How can someone be a "master of logic" and still believe in "demons" and "curses" while ignoring more readily available evidence and information?

I must add though that smallcheese and Winston are taking it too personally.

That's not true. You obviously have never been to China, droid. Dorky guys do okay here and you even have Chinese men who are ugly, but score easily here. It's not a sausage fest like it is in the States.

Hey thanks zboy1, i respect your input, you have orders of magnitude more authority on this, I was there only for a week.

The dorky guys I saw were formally holding hands with their girlfriends, that's all the information i had i guess.
But to clarify, are you saying dorky guys generally can get casual sex/one night stands? It's kind of confusing since some guys here say things are mostly marriage oriented or whatnot.

I mean I think we are being ambiguous about the concept of "scoring" in this thread. Some are referring to casual sex and others are referring to finding a wife.

It's not a sausage fest like it is in the States

+1000

*Also, hey smallcheese not to nose in but i stand by what i said, try to drop it, it's too much, too personal, and too convoluted. Down the road you'll read your old posts and see what i'm saying. i've gone myself through the stage of 'enjoying' micro-detailed debates already.

[celery2010]

LOL!!!!!! Life lessons from you????? LOL!!!!!

You don't know anything about me even though I've publicly documented who I am on another thread here. I'm going to take advice from a person who I think is morally bankrupt???? That's a laugh!!!!! It would be even funnier except that you're so delusional that you actually believe the moronic pontifications that you spew out.

You're so predictably arrogant and immature Winston! If you don't like what someone has written, you try to use logic in your arguments to prove that you're right. If that fails, then you start using foul language, insults and name calling. Sound familiar?

That's why I called you the Chinese version of George Costanza (from Seinfeld, if you've never seen the show before). Watching you react online in your forum is like slowing down to watch a car accident on the highway. You can't help but look.

FYI, I'm older than you. I'm in my 2nd and last marriage now and I married my beautiful wife last year after she turned 21. I'm 25+ years older than her. When you've been married before, most men become much, much wiser and are more cognizant of the choices that they make in life. I hope I've learned from my mistakes but who knows? I'm far from perfect.

I have 2 teens from my previous marriage to a Westernized Chinese bitch. Unlike you, after I divorced my first wife, I could not abandon my boys and let them think that I didn't love or care for them. Boys need a father's steady, positive influence in their lives so I consciously chose to stay in Hong Kong so that I could see them and guide them every week while they grew up. Even though it's costing me hundreds of thousands of dollars (USD), who cares? It's only money. Nothing to me is more important than my children. I made the choice to bring them into this world and it's my responsibility to take care of them until they are ready to take care of themselves. Even after they grow into adults, I'll still take care of them when they need me. IMHO, that's just what good fathers do.

You made a different choice with your son who was born out of wedlock and who you hardly ever see. That's ok. It's your life, not mine. At least you have the decency to send some money to help support him as he grows up. Hopefully you'll continue doing that. Your son doesn't deserve to be in the situation he's in now. He didn't have any choice, unlike you.

I made my own personal choice based on what I could live with. When I die, I'll die knowing that I did the best that I could for my children. I know Winston that you'll never understand the choices that I've made but hey, it's my life.

Winston, have you ever been married before? Have you ever had the courage to make that kind of commitment? Have your friends Ethan and Rock, who you reference as real life experts with women, ever been married before??? Have any of you had any children and spent time raising them 7 days a week for 18+ years? With an entitled wife (now ex-wife) and dealing with her femnazi friends? I'll put my 35+ years of experience with women and children up against any of you self-proclaimed experts. Paraphrasing Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes: "You know nothing! Nothing!"

I know that my words are wasted on you Winston. It goes in one ear and out the other. You don't want to hear or listen to anyone else's advice. That's ok. Like I said, it's your life. I'm just waiting for your life to derail again. Crash and burn like it always does inevitably, given who you are.

What irks me is that you seem to have some type of delusional disorder. Your chronic whining and constant self proclamations of how you're so handsome or how you have high credibility or how you're the master of logic or how you're like Buddha, are all laughable and ludicrous. And you refer to yourself in the 3rd person. You're very insecure. Winston, don't you realize that some people see you as a pathetic fool and you don't even seem to know it? You just keep going on and on and on and on ....

I like to banter with you and knock you off your high horse because it's so easy to predict how you'll react when you encounter someone who uses logic and experience against you. You react just like the Westernized women who you advise followers of your web site to avoid. Do you know what that makes you?

A hypocrite. So much for truth and accuracy.

This post brings up a VERY GOOD POINT.


Winston REALLY HAS NOOOOOOO EXPERIENCE WITH WOMEN.




That's why he fails with them.

He never really reached that point of having a serious girlfriend in high school and college and dating casually in his 20's and 30's and then being in a committed relationship and having kids.

When has Winston ever focused his effort on women?

Almost never.

Does Winston know anything about women's hobbies?

About childrearing? How they love relationships? Why they watch soap operas?

Why they like love stories?

NO.

He's like a child who never progressed past the age of 12.

He even describes himself that way.

For Winston, women are an alien race and alien culture.

Like how white americans might view Indian food.

He just sees the surface but doesn't truly understand.

I don't think i've EVER seen Winston post anything about women here.

He's an outsider.

Winston KEEPS SCREAMING, see? Other guys think i'm normal!!

Now how about we try asking women?

Let's put Winston on five blind dates.

Then LET"S ASK THE WOMEN, WHAT THEY REALLY THINK OF HIM?

Let the truth come out.........'

It doesn't matter WHAT the men think...

Remember who are you trying to date?

You're not thinking LOGICALLY, on the most simplistic level of all.....

[smallcheese]

*Also, hey smallcheese not to nose in but i stand by what i said, try to drop it, it's too much, too personal, and too convoluted. Down the road you'll read your old posts and see what i'm saying. i've gone myself through the stage of 'enjoying' micro-detailed debates already.

Thanks Droid, I appreciate your advice.

I understand what you're saying but I don't appreciate people cursing me out with foul language when I never use that kind of language against them. I don't back down from bullies in real life so I certainly won't back down here.

I guess I'm old fashioned that way and I try to respect others and be civil, even if I vehemently dislike what they say or how they say it. I don't resort to name calling or cursing to try to get my points across.

I thought this forum had more class and dignity than others like Rooshv. But maybe on this forum, people are used to Winston cursing at people or calling them dumb. I don't post that often so I guess everyone here is ok with it? Everyone here approves the use of foul language and cursing at commenters?

If so, then this is probably the wrong place for me to try and help others with my experiences living abroad. It's ok, no big deal. I'm still happier abroad

[celery2010]

Here's the thing, Winston.

There's even been famous tv drama shows about ugly, nerdy, undesirable guys getting beautiful women.

I'll bet a huge sum of money that you can't even name 2.

There's 2 very good examples that i think you should watch.

But i'm not gonna reveal them to you yet.

You JUST don't deserve them yet.

You've gotta do a little work, and if you start to progress, maybe you'll get some tips.

Have you ever really watched ANY Asian TV Drama or Movie?

[celery2010]

And heres the final big issue:

Winston Just Doesn't Truly Understand Asian Culture

Deep down, even Winston admits this.

He only states how much he hates how conformist people are.

Does Winston even know what makes Chinese or Asian culture tick?

How would he expect to have success in this matter?

Like we've previously stated, even ugly, undesirable guys get women. And some of these shows were amongst the top rated shows of all time.

Like Beauty and The Beast.

BUT

EVEN THE BEAST HAS BE TO CHARMING

NO ONE WANTS AN UNCHARMING BEAST

[Winston]

From my limited experience with chinese women I can say that they are the least romantic and most pragmatic women out there and I dont find those traits particularly attractive. They are walking calculators.

+ 1000

Yes that's exactly my point. That's a perfect summary of Chinese women in a nutshell. Even if they are kind and sweet, still their main character is calculating and pragmatic.

I find it hard to resonate with them and connect with them, especially since I'm a big romantic and chinese women see true romance as an impractical illusion, which they admit to.

I've seen rock and Ethan talk to chinese women and they seem to be able to connect on their frequency and wavelength whereas I cannot.

I am able to get tons of dates in China though. So my social life with girls is infinitely better than in Taiwan or America. The problem is that I'm not able to escalate those dates into the bedroom.

Furthermore, I cannot use my flirtation skills to build chemistry and attraction like I can in philippines and Russia because chinese women don't respond to flirtation. It's not their style. They are too serious. So my flirtation skills are rendered inept.

I talked to MarcosZeitola at length about this on the phone and he agrees.

[Winston]

Smallcheese and celery,
You are getting out of control here and using too many ad hominem attacks that aren't even true.

Now you say I have no experience with women? Dude I've had many girlfriends and gone out on thousands of dates. It's all documented in my journals and photos and history. Everyone here knows about it.

So now you guys are making up lies about me to fuel your hate? If so you guys are long gone and hopeless.

Smallcheese, FYI I'm telling you the truth. I have no bias against you and if you had given me the same advice as rock, word for word, I would not attack you or yell at you.

I am a mirror and give what I get. So if I attack you then you need to look at yourself and figure out what you did wrong, which in your case is obvious.

I talked to MarcosZeitola for a few hours and found him to be mature and down to earth. So why can't I do that with you smallcheese? Is there something wrong with you?

MarcosZeitola is in his early 20s yet he sounds so much more evolved and mature than you do, even though you claim to be older than me. How do you explain that smallcheese?

It's also possible that you smallcheese, come from the USA which has a toxic culture and therefore produces toxic personalities like yours, whereas MarcosZeitola comes from a more authentic healthy European culture.

Either way, MarcosZeitola definitely acts more mature and level headed than you do.

Ask any guy here who knows me. I am not biased or subjective or unfair at all. I call it as I see it and I am fair. So your claim of me seeking confirmation bias are unsubstantiated.

Sorry I've been busy lately. I will now pm you my Skype contact smallcheese.

[smallcheese]

Smallcheese and celery,
You are getting out of control here and using too many ad hominem attacks that aren't even true.

Now you say I have no experience with women? Dude I've had many girlfriends and gone out on thousands of dates. It's all documented in my journals and photos and history. Everyone here knows about it.

So now you guys are making up lies about me to fuel your hate? If so you guys are long gone and hopeless.

Smallcheese, FYI I'm telling you the truth. I have no bias against you and if you had given me the same advice as rock, word for word, I would not attack you or yell at you.

I am a mirror and give what I get. So if I attack you then you need to look at yourself and figure out what you did wrong, which in your case is obvious.

I talked to MarcosZeitola for a few hours and found him to be mature and down to earth. So why can't I do that with you smallcheese? Is there something wrong with you?

MarcosZeitola is in his early 20s yet he sounds so much more evolved and mature than you do, even though you claim to be older than me. How do you explain that smallcheese?

It's also possible that you smallcheese, come from the USA which has a toxic culture and therefore produces toxic personalities like yours, whereas MarcosZeitola comes from a more authentic healthy European culture.

Either way, MarcosZeitola definitely acts more mature and level headed than you do.

Ask any guy here who knows me. I am not biased or subjective or unfair at all. I call it as I see it and I am fair. So your claim of me seeking confirmation bias are unsubstantiated.

Sorry I've been busy lately. I will now pm you my Skype contact smallcheese.

What are you talking about??? I never said you had no experience with women. You're confusing me with Celery2010.

I asked you if you or your friends (Rock, Ethan) had ever been married before. You never answered that question.

If anything, you are the one who accused me of having no experience with women and living out of my parents' basement. Even though you had no idea who I was.

I talked to MarcosZeitola for a few hours and found him to be mature and down to earth. So why can't I do that with you smallcheese? Is there something wrong with you?

MarcosZeitola is in his early 20s yet he sounds so much more evolved and mature than you do, even though you claim to be older than me. How do you explain that smallcheese?

How about we talk first before you make statements like this? Statements like this make it sound like you've made up your mind about me. Again, I believe this is the bias against me that you already seem to have.

Let me ask you a few simple questions. Hopefully you'll answer in a civil manner.

1. Why do you use foul language, insults and cursing to attack me when I never did that to you? Do you think that is called for and justified when the other person never used that type of language against you? Is this the type of behavior you condone and encourage on your forum?

2. If I attacked you using the same type of foul language that you used against me, please show me when I did that. I will gladly apologize to you if I did that to you first.

3. How is my claim that you are already biased against me unsubstantiated? This is what you wrote from page 13 of this thread:

I'd like to talk to smallcheese sometime to see if he's down to earth or acts like an arrogant know it all like a typical expat. I highly doubt that he is down to earth. He is way too condescending and uses unfair ad hominem attacks on me. He probably is not that mature too. We will see. I'll pm him my Skype info.

You are already thinking this is true. So you will try to confirm it when you talk to me. Your words, not mine.

[Early Riser]

There's a way to eliminate women who won't be your type. The trick is to figure out your type. After looking over all the relationships I've had with women, I noticed a striking pattern: when they worked, I was he-who-is-loved. When they didn't, either she was she-who-is-loved or I tried to be he-who-loves.

Every workable relationship is reciprocal. One person gives, the other receives. One loves, the other is loved.

It's not easy for the one who is loved. He or she has to:

1. Care for
2. Respect
3. Respond appropriately
4. Know the one who loves.

Perhaps, Winston, you could start by typecasting yourself, based on your past relationships. Are you he-who-loves, or he-who-is loved?

[chanta76]

marcos,

You spk to him on the phone but i think between two guys it's one thing and between winston and a girl is another. Again this is speculation on my part. I think around guys Winston may act one way but around pretty girls he will act in another way.

This happens to lots of guys . I never thought Winston to be a horrible person although I think morally he is lost . At the same time I think Winston is monger at heart even though he wants a real relationship I think he wants more of that James Bond type where there is easy access of women. I mean what guys doesn't want that but that's more fantasy.

[Winston]

My dad's response to this thread:

"So, how is Dongguan compare to ShenZhen, smaller but more friendly? It is a big help that you have a friend there. Don't try to deal with too many girls at the same time. It is not about how many girls you dated. It is about whether you find one that is a good match to you.

I read some of your forum topics. You have many forum friends who are willing to give you suggestions. Although some used the words that hard for you to take, but I believe most of them are sincere advices with good intention. Try to refrain from bashing back. If you don't like them, just ignore them. You need as many friends as you can. Of course, there are always some low lives who would use every chance to put others down. Theses are exceptions. Just tell them you don't like that and they need to stop.

Good luck."

[celery2010]

This is the last message I got from Summer, the girl who did a 180 on me. It shows her true colors and a warped mentality.

" I don't think we can to be friends,if you want a girl friend,tell you truth,you need spend much money to her,when I stay with you,you let me feel uncomfortable,like when we go to movie,I want buy water and popcorn,you don't want,when I ask you to but star buck for me,you don't buy yourself,you just want share mine,you are so mean,I really don't like that,all time I feel you try to save money,you gave me the gift,all gifts is very cheap,I really don't enjoy ,I think Chinese man much better than you

Sorry to say that,but that is true,if you just want spend a little money than you want find woman or girl friend,that is impossible,I just try to let you know"

My logical response to her:

" I did buy popcorn for you when we first went to movie remember? But you didn't eat it. Only I did. So I think you don't like popcorn.

You didn't say you wanted popcorn last time. You don't communicate clearly. I told you I don't like sweet popcorn so I didn't buy it. If you wanted it you could've asked me. But you were silent and moody.

Chinese are not generous. They like to save money. It's is chinese character. You know that.

Anyway if you really like or love someone, these little things don't matter.

I was going to buy you more expensive gifts on our third date. But you began to be cold and moody to me.

Money does not help or hurt attraction. A relationship is all about chemistry. I've gone on many dates and money never helped me. I've spent a lot of money on girls before and it did not help or change their feeling. Remember I have more experience than you."

" You always lie and trick me. You said we could be friends but now you say we can't. You always change what you say. That's not honest or stable.

I was a gentlemen to you. I paid for most things on our dates. So I did the right thing according to traditional culture."

" You sound like you hate me. Why? You are using little things against me. Only someone with a subconscious hatred problem would do that. You forget all the good things about us and only remember little faults. Strange.

I didn't want Starbucks because Starbucks Coffee is a bad value and not worth the price. 30 rmb can buy dinner and is worth far more than a cup of sugar coffee. So I do not buy coffee there. It's illogical and a bad deal. But it's nothing against you.

I just wanted to taste your coffee. Not drink it. I thought we were a couple. Couples can share drinks. It's normal."

" You are spinning and twisting things and exaggerating things and not making any sense.

You can ask my friend rock if I did anything wrong. He will be honest and not take my side if I am wrong."

" You don't have to spend a lot of money to make a girl like you. Most people would disagree. I have more experience in dating than you. You should listen to me. A man is not required to buy everything a woman wants.

Are you saying a man should never say that something is too expensive? Are you crazy? You sound like a Russian woman. Not a Chinese woman. Chinese women are frugal and love to save and hate ripoff prices. We both know that. I am chinese too."

" You can ask any wise or smart person. They will tell you that a man should NOT give a woman expensive gifts on first or second date. To do so would be stupid and foolish. Everyone knows this summer. Why don't you?"

OH....MY....GOD.....

I can't believe you actually wrote this to a woman.

THIS is the source of your problem.

You DO LACK TACT.

Why don't you try to just let the woman talk and just say uh-huh. Then wink at her and flirt with her.

Man.......

I don't even know where to start...........