Winston in China! Updates and Photos

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Now when I contact her, all she does it bait me into drama and trying to put me on a guilt trip as if I did something wrong, when I didn't. Her reasons are all nonsensical. I don't know why. She acts like I did something terrible. WTF? Very weird. She seems very delusional and messed up with issues. The fact that her ex went to prison is a bad sign too, if she gets involved with such types. She must either like bad boys and thugs, or perhaps she was a partner in crime as well. Either way, she seems mentally unstable. I showed her messages to Rock and Ethan_sg and they agree. Yet she was so kind and considerate at first on our first two dates. So WTF?

Any explanation for what happened? Am I just cursed or something? This is not the first time something like this happened. I've had girls in Russia and America like me a lot at first and then change their mind suddenly after a while and can't explain why, or cite BS trivial reasons.

You are not being alpha.....women treat betas like shit.

[Winston]

Hi all,
I went to an AFA social last Saturday here in Shenzhen. It was my first time at one of these events. I was nervous and shy. When I arrived, they gave me a translator who guided me through the process. The ladies sat around the cocktail lounge and the men on the tour sat and talked to all of them and exchanged contact info, and then rotated around.

I ended up meeting three great ladies. Two of them seemed like keepers. One of them was a 32 year old grammar school English teacher who was very beautiful, sexy, educated, and mature, the perfect package. A definite gem and keeper. I would definitely marry her if I could. Plus her being a grammar teacher means she has good character. We talked for a long time, longer than we should have since we were supposed to rotate after a while. The other lady I liked was a 38 year old with a daughter who was a professional accountant and had her own car, so she's definitely not poor. She was fairly attractive and looked a lot younger than her age too. The third lady was nice and sweet but kind of quiet and bland.

These ladies were a class far above the Filipinas I dated in the Philippines. I had assumed prior that these ladies would all be poor and desperate, but I was wrong. Wow. I showed photos of them to Rock, Ethan_sg, Bao3niang and Zboy1 and they all agreed with me.

I'm not sure how the follow up process goes, but I guess I will just keep in touch with all of them and try to arrange dates with them. I guess that's what you are supposed to do. However, they met other male clients on the tour too, so they will be seeing other guys as well, and may fall for one of them. Who knows.

Anyway, they have all expressed an interest in seeing me. So I will try my best. This time, I will take things slow, so I don't mess things up like I did with that DateinAsia girl. Any advice?

Btw, all of them said that they would be happy living in Shenzhen if they found a partner and were not aiming to move abroad. I don't know if that's true or if they were just saying that to not look like green card whores. (I am not a mind reader after all) But I don't see why they would lie since Shenzhen is very safe, clean and modern, like a first world city, not the kind of place that people would be desperate to get out of.

[smallcheese]

I ended up meeting three great ladies. Two of them seemed like keepers. One of them was a 32 year old grammar school English teacher who was very beautiful, sexy, educated, and mature, the perfect package. A definite gem and keeper. I would definitely marry her if I could. Plus her being a grammar teacher means she has good character. We talked for a long time, longer than we should have since we were supposed to rotate after a while. The other lady I liked was a 38 year old with a daughter who was a professional accountant and had her own car, so she's definitely not poor. She was fairly attractive and looked a lot younger than her age too. The third lady was nice and sweet but kind of quiet and bland.

It's good that you did well on the tour. But seriously, you're already thinking marriage after meeting someone for the first time?? Lust at first sight is real but I don't think love at first sight is real. How long did you talk to the grammar teacher? The other women? What name did you use when you talked to these women? Your Chinese name or Winston Wu? What did you tell them when they asked you what you did for a living?

My advice is that you should followup quickly with the one(s) you like the most. Sounds like the grammar teacher interests you the most. Let her know that you really enjoyed your conversation with her and you'd like to continue it on a date. Suggest a place that you know is quiet, romantic with good food, drinks and make it a no brainer that she go out on a followup date with you. She needs to know that you are serious about her and that you're not a player. Try to secure the date as soon as you can and take it from there. I'd avoid talking about this web site as much as possible. Right now, you should focus on learning more about the ones you like and moving the relationship along.

Don't talk about marriage yet. It makes you sound desperate, even though that might be in the back of your mind. But if the woman is marriage minded, then you can drop subtle hints that you are ready for marriage and that you are serious.

These ladies were a class far above the Filipinas I dated in the Philippines. I had assumed prior that these ladies would all be poor and desperate, but I was wrong. Wow. I showed photos of them to Rock, Ethan_sg, Bao3niang and Zboy1 and they all agreed with me.


Btw, all of them said that they would be happy living in Shenzhen if they found a partner and were not aiming to move abroad. I don't know if that's true or if they were just saying that to not look like green card whores. (I am not a mind reader after all) But I don't see why they would lie since Shenzhen is very safe, clean and modern, like a first world city, not the kind of place that people would be desperate to get out of.

Even though the women told you that they're not interested in going to the U.S. or getting a green card, it's a good thing that they know you are a U.S. citizen. It'll be in the back of their mind when they assess their suitors and who to choose. Whether you agree or not, people in China still believe that they can get a better education in the U.S. so if children are in the future, then where they could get an education is a factor.

Of course these women were a class above the Filipinas you dated. Duh?? Didn't you spend most of your time in Angeles City? 'Nuff said!

Good luck on your chase and keep us informed of your progress.

[momopi]

I ended up meeting three great ladies. Two of them seemed like keepers. One of them was a 32 year old grammar school English teacher who was very beautiful, sexy, educated, and mature, the perfect package. A definite gem and keeper. I would definitely marry her if I could. Plus her being a grammar teacher means she has good character. We talked for a long time, longer than we should have since we were supposed to rotate after a while. The other lady I liked was a 38 year old with a daughter who was a professional accountant and had her own car, so she's definitely not poor. She was fairly attractive and looked a lot younger than her age too. The third lady was nice and sweet but kind of quiet and bland.

Folks, here's a little reminder on "why happier abroad":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOHDkIxyu2A

Must be nice for the young couple to have loaded parents eh? Most of us are not born with their genes and silver spoon in mouth. I'm from So Cal like the young couple in the video, but I'd never have as much fun at age 22 as they are enjoying life now, regardless of how many sour grapes you might find in a barrel. You can work hard and try for a small slice of what's in the video in America, or you can go abroad and find a bigger slice.

Winston, you've finally made it to China. You don't have to settle for older single mothers like men in America. Think of all the times when you were rotting away in Chayi and Vegas, trying to live from other people's experience. Now is your time. China is a big country with diverse population, many places to visit and women to meet. Go and find your piece of sweet boo-ty and a sweet pool to jump into with.


p.s. in case if anyone is wondering, the video came from "elite daily", catered to Gen Y kids:
http://elitedaily.com/life/people-trave ... er/982653/
http://elitedaily.com/life/culture/virt ... ad/981524/

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not sure how the follow up process goes, but I guess I will just keep in touch with all of them and try to arrange dates with them. I guess that's what you are supposed to do. However, they met other male clients on the tour too, so they will be seeing other guys as well, and may fall for one of them. Who knows.

I did several AFA trips years ago. In fact i was on the one with Mark Davis when he met Anna. Here's my advice. All the Western guys will be gone back home, very soon and you'll have all the women to yourself.

Give us some info on the socials. How many did you attend? How many men were there and where were they from? How old and how did they look, etc? How many girls attended? Age, quality, eagerness in getting serious. In Ukraine these parties attracted their share of player girls. Can you post some pictures of the party? What do you tell the girls you do? What do you tell them you will do if you move to China? Do you tell them you want kids?

[pete98146]

Anyway, they have all expressed an interest in seeing me. So I will try my best. This time, I will take things slow, so I don't mess things up like I did with that DateinAsia girl. Any advice?

I used to use a little trick when going on a date for the first time. I believe I got this tip from "How to Win Friends and Influence People" but it's been a long time LOL. I seem to remember that when the book was written, they did a survey of the number one word used in telephone conversations. The most common used word was "I". So that tells you that people LOVE to talk about themselves.

Years back, I went out on a date and tried an experiment. I thought up a dozen or so questions for her in advance and throughout the date I asked each one of them. It's a bit artificial and the key is to ask her and still maintain the flow of the conversation. But this allowed her to really open up and tell me about herself. If she asked me a question about myself, I would give a brief answer and steer the questioning back to her. It also allowed me to control the conversation and subconsciously women like to be controlled.

I know for a fact that she went home and told her girlfriend "oh I really like him because he was so interested in me" and "he's a bit mysterious" and I want to know more about him on the second/third/fourth date. <--- women LOVE when a guy is mysterious. That and they start feeling more at ease when they can open up about themselves to you. Also, use her name often in your conversations. People enjoy hearing their names.

Take your time telling your story and thoughts to her. Let her peel away your layers like an onion. Also don't give her a ton of compliments right away. Make her work for your affection.

I would have easily dated her except the girl that I really liked broke up with her bf and I ended up hooking up with her instead.

But this is a fun thing to practice on a date and I had good success.

[Winston]

I ended up meeting three great ladies. Two of them seemed like keepers. One of them was a 32 year old grammar school English teacher who was very beautiful, sexy, educated, and mature, the perfect package. A definite gem and keeper. I would definitely marry her if I could. Plus her being a grammar teacher means she has good character. We talked for a long time, longer than we should have since we were supposed to rotate after a while. The other lady I liked was a 38 year old with a daughter who was a professional accountant and had her own car, so she's definitely not poor. She was fairly attractive and looked a lot younger than her age too. The third lady was nice and sweet but kind of quiet and bland.

It's good that you did well on the tour. But seriously, you're already thinking marriage after meeting someone for the first time?? Lust at first sight is real but I don't think love at first sight is real. How long did you talk to the grammar teacher? The other women? What name did you use when you talked to these women? Your Chinese name or Winston Wu? What did you tell them when they asked you what you did for a living?

My advice is that you should followup quickly with the one(s) you like the most. Sounds like the grammar teacher interests you the most. Let her know that you really enjoyed your conversation with her and you'd like to continue it on a date. Suggest a place that you know is quiet, romantic with good food, drinks and make it a no brainer that she go out on a followup date with you. She needs to know that you are serious about her and that you're not a player. Try to secure the date as soon as you can and take it from there. I'd avoid talking about this web site as much as possible. Right now, you should focus on learning more about the ones you like and moving the relationship along.

Don't talk about marriage yet. It makes you sound desperate, even though that might be in the back of your mind. But if the woman is marriage minded, then you can drop subtle hints that you are ready for marriage and that you are serious.

These ladies were a class far above the Filipinas I dated in the Philippines. I had assumed prior that these ladies would all be poor and desperate, but I was wrong. Wow. I showed photos of them to Rock, Ethan_sg, Bao3niang and Zboy1 and they all agreed with me.


Btw, all of them said that they would be happy living in Shenzhen if they found a partner and were not aiming to move abroad. I don't know if that's true or if they were just saying that to not look like green card whores. (I am not a mind reader after all) But I don't see why they would lie since Shenzhen is very safe, clean and modern, like a first world city, not the kind of place that people would be desperate to get out of.

Even though the women told you that they're not interested in going to the U.S. or getting a green card, it's a good thing that they know you are a U.S. citizen. It'll be in the back of their mind when they assess their suitors and who to choose. Whether you agree or not, people in China still believe that they can get a better education in the U.S. so if children are in the future, then where they could get an education is a factor.

Of course these women were a class above the Filipinas you dated. Duh?? Didn't you spend most of your time in Angeles City? 'Nuff said!

Good luck on your chase and keep us informed of your progress.

Well AFA is a marriage agency, so aren't you supposed to think about marriage? Isn't that the point? I talked to the grammar teacher about 40 minutes I think, maybe a bit longer. I told them my name is Winston. For a living I told them I'm a writer and I earn income from online advertising and that one of my main advertisers is AFA, so I in a sense work for AFA. haha

For now though, I've taken down my controversial photo collage from this site, so that if they do Google me and find HA, they won't see it. Good idea?

Yeah I met the grammar teacher girl again the day after the social. (after she went to meet another tour client) We went to a Korean restaurant and talked for 3 hours. We had a nice talk about a lot of things. She sounded very mature and well balanced, with a positive attitude to life. I get the feeling that she is a quality person that wants to take it slow. She goes jogging regularly too, so she's in good shape. She also has a wholesome vibe about her too. A definite keeper.

[WorldTraveler]

Winston, how many people were at the socials, girls and guys? What was the quality of the girls? Where were the guys from?

[Winston]

I'm not sure how the follow up process goes, but I guess I will just keep in touch with all of them and try to arrange dates with them. I guess that's what you are supposed to do. However, they met other male clients on the tour too, so they will be seeing other guys as well, and may fall for one of them. Who knows.

I did several AFA trips years ago. In fact i was on the one with Mark Davis when he met Anna. Here's my advice. All the Western guys will be gone back home, very soon and you'll have all the women to yourself.

Give us some info on the socials. How many did you attend? How many men were there and where were they from? How old and how did they look, etc? How many girls attended? Age, quality, eagerness in getting serious. In Ukraine these parties attracted their share of player girls. Can you post some pictures of the party? What do you tell the girls you do? What do you tell them you will do if you move to China? Do you tell them you want kids?

Winston, how many people were at the socials, girls and guys? What was the quality of the girls? Where were the guys from?

I can't answer those questions because the managers at AFA told me they don't want me divulging any such confidential information out on my forum or newsletters. Most of the men were older and there were eight of them I heard. I can't post pictures but if AFA does on their site, I will post a link to them. I told the women I work for AFA as an advertiser and that I'm a writer too.

[Winston]

Wow! I looked in the mirror this morning and noticed a change. I look younger and more vibrant now, like I did when I was in Russia. I think it's because being in an environment (here in China) where social and dating life flows more smoothly and naturally makes me happier and thus makes me look better, younger and more vibrant. This in turn makes me more charming as well.

So as we've been saying all along, location does make all the difference!

Plus the fact that I'm eating healthier and less here, and doing a lot more walking everyday, helps as well.

Just wanted to report this good news.

[WorldTraveler]

I can't answer those questions because the managers at AFA told me they don't want me divulging any such confidential information out on my forum or newsletters. Most of the men were older and there were eight of them I heard. I can't post pictures but if AFA does on their site, I will post a link to them. I told the women I work for AFA as an advertiser and that I'm a writer too.

That's probably why you were so popular, because you were one of the youngest men at the social. Sounds like AFA is hiding things if they don't want you to discuss their socials on your website. Maybe you could PM me and tell me a little about their socials.

[xiongmao]

Yes AFA are trying to hide stuff in a Facebook era lol.

But if you look at the socials I'd say there were ~20 guys on the Shenzhen socials and no more than ~40 women. I'd guestimate the average of the women to be early to mid 30's.

I'll be more open, when I went to the Guangzhou dating party there were ~100 participants, around 65 women and 35 guys. Good odds! The women were younger than the AFA women. Also they were genuine women who weren't just there to meet foreigners (since foreigners don't generally go to these things). They were genuinely looking for husbands, and they treated the dating games really seriously.

It takes considerable effort to find these parties if you don't read Chinese or know locals, although they are very common.

Sadly even given these odds I didn't see anyone I really liked that day. So you could very easily spend all that money on the AFA socials and not see anyone you liked.

A bonus of going to the party was that I got on mailing lists for other events. So it opened a few doors.

If you go to the Philippines AFA event then there will be a lot more women which is in keeping with Filipinas being very numerous on any other Asian dating situation.

Winston if you're staying in China for a while then enroll some places where you will meet girls. Universities, gyms, these are good places to meet women! I was meeting so many people in my old Chinese University - shame I went mad there!!!

[Winston]

I was wrong about something. Cold approach does work in China. I've been getting a new number every day for about 10 days now. Sometimes two numbers a day. But the thing is, I have to approach a lot of girls or see who looks friendly first. Maybe only 1 or 2 girls out of 10 will respond with friendliness toward a cold approach.

Either way, my dating and social life in China is definitely A LOT better and comes more NATURALLY than it does in Taiwan or USA. That's for sure. I have a lot more dates and met a lot more women here than I ever did in Taiwan. And I mean A LOT more. So my life is definitely more active here. Even if most of those dates don't go anywhere, at least I'm active and about, so I lose weight and walk more. Plus since I'm not as depressed as I was in Taiwan or USA, I don't overeat or eat junk food to fill my void like I did in Taiwan or USA, so that helps me to lose weight as well, in addition to walking more and being more active here because I have more to do.

[Winston]

I have a question and decision to make here that I would like some input on.

Should I get out of Shenzhen?

I do meet a lot of women here. But many of them are busy with work and seem to have very materialistic values. Some even drop hints or tell me directly that I need to buy a house and car first before they will take me seriously. One woman even went so far as to say that it's not possible for a guy to get a girlfriend in China without being able to buy her a house first, which is total bullshit because most couples in China do NOT have a house, but are living in an apartment and both working and saving to buy one in the future. So I don't know why I get such ridiculous statements from Chinese women. She even told me that 99 percent of Chinese women will want a house and car first before they will get into a serious relationship with me and that they do not do casual dating. However, that seems like bullshit because:

1. Rock and Ethan_sg and others, have had Chinese girlfriends and slept with Chinese women, without buying a house for them or promising to do so. Their women did not ask them to buy a house. So why do mine? Am I a magnet for users? Or just unlucky again with Murphy's Law? Or am I not good enough to have a normal relationship with normal sex, where women like me for me?

2. I see many young couples everywhere in public in China who are happily in love. They do not have any kind of house or business or great income. Why can't I have that too?

3. A house in China costs a lot, sometimes more than in the USA even. So there's no way that every guy who has a girlfriend in China has a house to give her. That makes no sense and is impossible.

So I don't get why the Chinese women I meet seem more interested in practical benefits than a real relationship. Rock told me that a woman who is overly practical and treats a romantic relationship as a business relationship is only going to use me and that it can only end badly. He avoids such women who have strong practical objectives in mind.

However, some Chinese women tell me that that's how all Chinese women think so I will find the same in the rest of China. They claim that 99 percent of Chinese women need financial security first before they can fall in love with a man. Is that true? If so, then how do you explain the above? Who is right here?

Rock told me that Shenzhen is a magnet for materialistic women who are focused on making money and achieving material goals. So it's better to seek love in other cities. Plus Shenzhen is modern and new, only 30 years old, and does not represent China, since it has no historical buildings like older cities do. Rock also told me that Chinese girls who want love and romance can usually get it from male classmates or workmates. So the ones online or still single after 30 must have other objectives in mind.

On the other hand, Ethan_sg thinks it's better for me to stay in Shenzhen because I already built up a network of contacts here and already have one down to earth woman interested in me. If I go to another city, he says, I will have to start from scratch. He also said that Shenzhen is a great melting pot of women from all over China, who do not live with their parents and thus are able to stay out late or sleep over at my place without curfew. And he says that most women I find online will be from Shenzhen rather than from other cities, which does seem to be true. Also, some women in Shenzhen told me that this city is the best place to live because it is clean, safe, modern, and has good infrastructure. It also has warm weather all year too (but for me that's a downside since I like cold weather).

What do all think? Will I find the same type of women all over China, as some say? Or not, as Rock says?

I mean being materialistic is one thing, which is normal since we do live in a materialistic world, but expecting a guy to buy a house and car, or open a business first, before he can become some woman's boyfriend, sounds ridiculous and exaggerated. A guy shouldn't have to buy a house and car before he can get laid. Gee whiz!

What do you all think? Any suggestions?

Rock, Momopi, Falcon, what do you think? What do you suggest?

PS - Get this: Some women here are downright delusional. One short homely plain woman I met from OkCupid who was very average looking, even expected me to buy her a pair of $50 shoes on our first date! lol. The thing is, she looked innocent and nice and was educated and intelligent, and she even spoke good English and had been to Texas before. So that was a bit of a surprise. I mean, doesn't she know that the purpose of a first date is to get to know each other? I don't even know if I like her yet. Yet she tried to use our first date as a chance to try to get me to buy her a pair of $50 shoes because she needed them? Wtf kind of logic is that? I don't get it. Plus she was 35 and not young or pretty enough to attract a sugar daddy or be a sugar baby. So what was she smoking or thinking?! Very weird and inexplicable.

[Rock]

Shenzhen may or may not be the place for you. But this is your virgin trip so it's a discovery tour. There's so much to see in China that it would be a downright shame to only make it as far as Shenzhen which is kinda a hybrid sort of place.

Wouldn't it be fun to get on the high speed rail and hit some second and third tier cities (even see fourth tier cities and countryside). Experience how people change from city to city and region to region. Hit historic sites and that will energize you and take your focus away from only meeting women. When you were in E. Europe/Russia you did that and it added a very important dimension to your trips and dating there.

The last time I met many locals in China was several years ago. But during the periods when I was active in China, I didn't meet any genuine friends in Shenzhen. Ditto for Guangzhou. But I had better luck in Qingdao, Changchun, Chengdu, and Chongqing. Maybe things are quite different now. But if you only go as far as Shenzhen, you haven't really seen real China first hand. Shenzhen is an artificial city. Before Deng opened it up and it got enriched by massive investment plus money flowing in from HK and other non-mainland Chinese guys, it was a tiny village.

By the way, when a girl says house in China, she probably means apartment. Houses (in the American sense) in China located reasonably close to even a second tier city are probably going to be extremely expensive. Keep in mind, China has about the same land mass as USA but 5 or 6 times as many people. The cheapest property I've seen so far there are apartments in parts of Dongguan. I was surprised at how cheap some of the listing were. And remember, it's really a very long term lease. Cus the land belongs to the government.

You know Winston, I think your relatives in Taiwan told you about how materialistic mainland women are. I sure hope you can prove them wrong by finding some great women who don't fit that.

I can understand a woman wanting financial security. A lot of Chinese women seem to be quite smart and calculating. They don't want you to play them and then toss them aside after you tire of them. They don't wanna become your second Dianne stuck with kid and only a subsistence allowance from you.

I believe woman in China have become increasingly aware over the last decade of their scarcity value. So their self-worth has risen commensurately. Just consider how much pickier many men become when they go to a country where it's easy for them to date attractive women vs. how they lower their standards in the Anglo world. Just like men, women can do the math as well and just may adjust their expectations accordingly.

But, anyway, the ones worth considering should at least date you a few times first to figure out whether or not there is any romantic chemistry. I'm sure there are still some like that. Then if mutual attraction grows, you can talk about practical issues.

With the ones who wanna talk practical matters first before any romantic dating, you would be getting yourself into a relationship with a woman who has very different values than you and/or she's been burned before and carries a massive amount of baggage. Either scenario is a formula for disaster. Fortunately, you don't have assets in your name nor anything much over US min wage in terms of income. If you ever do get anything, you can always put it in the name of your parents to protect against any woman you might marry or get heavily involved with. So the main benefit a Chinese girl can get from you is a US green card and eventually citizenship. You're not really very strong bait for pure gold digger.

Anyway, try to travel so you can see more and meet a more diverse range of people. Location location location. There's a lot more to China than Shenzhen and while Shenzhen may have people from all over China just as Shanghai and Beijing do, it's a filtered subset, filtered for a bias towards careerism and materialism. I'm surprised Ethan wants you to stay there and not explore the coast and hinterland.