Ancient Astronaut Hypothesis

[Pixel--Dude]

Have we been visited before by aliens from a distant part of the universe? Proponents of the Ancient Astronaut Hypothesis believe that humanity was created or descended from a race of intelligent alien beings who came to earth and interacted with humanity in antiquity or prehistoric times.

@WilliamSmith I know you wanted to talk more about this topic and we had a conversation about it in the thread about the Russian Cult of Hackwrench. What do you think of the theory? Do you think it has any credibility?

I know @Lucas88 has studied this topic at length and I would really like for him to share his thoughts with everyone on this topic.

@MrMan I know we debated this in your thread about the Russian Cult of Hackwrench, but I thought I would tag you anyway in case you were interested in discussing it further.

First, I think we should consider the possibility. Skeptics often make the argument that alien visitors arriving at earth is an impossibility. That such unfathomable distances, even travelled at light speed, would take millions of years and make the journey unfeasible for alien life. But a fallacy with this argument is that these skeptics assume that our limited understanding of physics is the pinnacle of knowledge on the issue. When in reality even renowned physicists admit that we have barely even scratched the surface where physics is concerned.

Richard Feynman, a respected physicist in the 20th century said: “If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don’t understand quantum mechanics.” An admission of our limited understanding of physics and the workings of the universe.

Another consideration is that the universe isn’t all the same age. If the universe expanded from a single point then some solar systems will be older than ours. And they would have civilizations much older than ours. This could mean that the civilization of these distant solar systems could be millions of years more advanced than us here on Earth, and their understanding of physics could be like magic to us.

Miguel Alcubierre, a Mexican theoretical physicist, proposed the idea for a speculative warp drive which would achieve speeds faster than light speed by contracting space in front of the craft and expanding space behind it. This would propel the craft forward at speeds which exceed faster-than-light speed without breaking any laws of physics.

If a Mexican theoretical physicist can propose a speculative craft which is consistent with the Einstein field equations. The drive would require the manipulation of exotic or dark matter, so the drive is not within the realms of possibility for humanity at the moment. But imagine an advanced civilization from a distant world that had a more comprehensive grasp of physics than our physicists.

There are two main points of evidence offered for the Ancient Astronaut Hypothesis

1. Testimony

In Epistemology we value the testimony of others as a valid source of knowledge. For example if you know what date your birthday is then you undoubtedly got that information through the testimonial account of someone else.

There is historical testimonial knowledge passed down throughout history and proponents of the Ancient Astronaut Hypothesis believe that even myths and legends of ancient cultures are actually stories recorded of what the Ancient cultures experienced. For example across all religions and mythologies there are common motifs repeated when they talk about their gods.

The gods always arrived via some kind of flying device like the Vimana in Hindu mythology, which was a flying city that housed the gods.



In Ancient Egypt the pantheon of gods arrived in flying boats. The Egyptians saw space or the heavens as a giant cosmic ocean which their gods sailed.



I wanted to add this short video from Ancient Egyptian mythology. It is the Lament of Asclepius, where a god is warning Asclepius of the future, which is happening today.



Flying machines are even recorded in the Bible in the book of Ezekiel where they are described as wheels within wheels or something. Then there is the account of Enoch where he was taken up into the heavens to meet God face to face. This is not considered part of scripture by most and was conveniently removed from the Bible.

In Sumerian mythology the gods and goddesses had their celestial chariots and the name Annunaki is supposed to mean something like “Those who from heaven came” this is the very first mythology or religion recorded by humanity. It predates the bible by a millennia and is considered the cradle of civilization. This is a fascinating Myth which recounts the story of the god Enki and what he did for humanity. The motifs of this story are present in mythology all over the world, despite the gods being given different names depending on the culture recounting the tale.

First there is the flood myth, which is prevalent in all ancient accounts. A consistent theme told all across the globe . In the Sumerian account there is the Epic of Gilgamesh. The Biblical story of Noah. In Greek mythology Zeus flooded the Earth and it was Deucalion who built an ark. The Great Flood of Gun-Yu in ancient Chinese mythology and in ancient Hindu mythology there is a story of a great flood within the Puranas.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/200 ... rchaeology

There is the motif of humanity created from the “clay” as a common motif. In Sumerian mythology Enki created humanity using the clay and the blood of a god to give humanity the divine spark. This could also be describing some kind of genetic experiment. In the Bible God created Adam from the dust. In Greek mythology Prometheus created humanity from earth and water. In Chinese mythology Nüwa created beings from the earth and breathed life into them.

The motif of some kind of forbidden knowledge imparted upon humanity by benevolent gods such as Enki in the Sumerian account who gave Adapa forbidden knowledge against the will of Anu. The Biblical serpent from Genesis who gave Adam and Eve knowledge against the will of God. The Greek Myth where Prometheus gave humanity the fire of the gods against the will of the gods of Olympus. Hindu mythology speaks of a hero Mātariśvan who recovered fire which had been hidden from humanity.

A war between different factions of the gods is another motif. In Christianity it is God and the angels vs Lucifer and the demons of hell. In Sumerian mythology Enki’s cities are destroyed with something that sounds like nuclear weapons (the same as Sodom and Gomorrah with evil winds) the Greek gods fought the Titans and Hindu Devas fought the evil Asuras!

So there are the same stories being told by different ancient civilizations across the globe. All featuring the same pantheon of gods, but with different names. For example Enki, the progenitor of humanity is also Prometheus and Shiva from ancient Greek and Hindu mythology, as well as slandered as Satan or the Devil in biblical theology.

2. Megalithic Structures

Megalithic structures from around the world serve as marvels even today. Modern architects are unable to replicate the works of the Great Pyramids of Giza for example. Even though they are dismissed as primitive structures by skeptics, this couldn’t be any further from the truth. The Pyramids construction required extremely advanced mathematical, architectural, engineering, geological, geographical and astronomical knowledge

The mainstream states that the Pyramids of Giza were built by 100,000 slaves in 20 years. The Great Pyramid of Giza contains 2.3 million individual blocks of stone, meaning one block would have to be laid every five minutes of every hour, 24 hours a day, for the entire 20 years. I don’t care what ingenuity ancient people had, there is just no way that this sounds within the realms of possibility. If anything I think aliens building the Great Pyramid is the least stupid possible answer to this mystery.

The Pyramids of Giza are in perfect alignment with the stars of Orions Belt. With the two shaft openings in perfect alignment with the Sirius Constellation and the Draco Constellation. How did ancient Egyptians do this?The three pyramids are in alignment with Orion. This is the Orion Correlation Theory.



Also, the Great Pyramid is mathematically perfect. Deviating from mathematical perfection by .25 of an inch. Something modern architects can’t achieve, even with all the technology we have today. The granite and limestone blocks (some weighing as much as 70 tons) are fit together so precisely (as though cut with a laser) that a razorblade wouldn’t fit between them.

The geographical orientation of the pyramid is another interesting characteristic. Its sides are perfectly placed north to south and east to west. It is perfectly oriented with Earth’s true north. True north can only be calculated on a map of the planet using the longitudinal lines. This is different to magnetic north on a compass. How can a civilization from which hadn’t (allegedly) discovered the wheel capable of determining true north?

Also, the Great Pyramid is located at the centre of all the land mass of the Earth. The East West parallel that crosses the most land, and the North South meridian that crosses the most land intersect at the exact location of the Great Pyramid.



Aliens building the pyramids would also explain why there are pyramids all over the globe that have the same design as if they were built by the same architects. Check out these different pyramids and their similarities.



These pyramids, if viewed on a map, are also in perfect alignment with each other. A global network of pyramids with similar architectural design and advanced engineering placed strategically across every continent. Suggesting they were built by the same people.



Two near identical ancient pyramids with almost identical architecture. How can this be explained?



Various megalithic structures showing laser precise cutting of these gargantuan blocks. Absolutely impossible to achieve this with primitive tools.

There is no plans or designs or any mention of the pyramid construction whatsoever in hieroglyphics in Egypt. But apparently there is an allusion to Thoth building the pyramid or having something to do with its construction in the Emerald Tablets.

[WilliamSmith]

Ahhh, thank you @Pixel--dude, I'll be all over this thread in a week or two if possible, no matter if the trolls try to derail it while I'm away, because I was into the Ancient Aliens hypothesis way before it was cool (as a boy before dial-up internet came to the area where I lived in a crappy town on the Left Coast in the 90s).

I actually first got the notion about it from reading the Old Testament for the first time and thought something along the lines of: "Damn, obviously this thing talking isn't "God" since he's ranting about having no other gods before him and also f***s everything up since his creations don't do anything he wanted them to, so this sounds like some angry aliens were creating genetic hybrid creatures, then wiped them out with the old flood" (which from what I've read was a geological fact, even if the scriptural stuff is basically a syncretic mishmash of old Astro theological religion slathered together by lying jews).
I guessed even that the new theoretical thing (now a reality) of genetic cloning was what the creation of Eve from the "rib", but I'll have to elaborate later....
That was just speculation and not what I think is the actual story of exactly what happened, but yeah, I was onto this before I even discovered the early birds researching the theory.

Then later I was at a library book sale and was all over old nifty-smelling paperbacks by Erich Von Däniken, who is awesome even though he made a few logical faux paus and errors in his enthusiasm in a few earlier titles (which he acknowledged later), but no blame there.

That TV show Ancient Aliens they made much more recently was quite a nice solid overview, even if there's stronger vs weaker points and they stretch it a bit once in a while to pump out more episodes, but NBD, because no one is even remotely close in any way shape or form to "debunking" them on so many points.

The dimwits who come in saying that it's like a cult or that the show is a "religion" don't have any weight regardless of whether cultists have popped up, since they cannot offer any explanations except naysaying or saying that the Ancient Aliens hypothesis is "racist" even though the evidence is global across most or all racial groups so that makes no sense.

I will get back to you with what I see as the key points that no one can "debunk" unless they can explain them (which thus far they can't), and there are MANY.

[CaptainSkelebob]

So......
Aliens are smart enough to build ships that can move billions of lightyears across space to pile rocks on top of each other???
Cmon PD.....
If the pyramids had sliding doors and air conditioning inside these tombs then maybe I would be on board

[MrMan]

So......
Aliens are smart enough to build ships that can move billions of lightyears across space to pile rocks on top of each other???
Cmon PD.....
If the pyramids had sliding doors and air conditioning inside these tombs then maybe I would be on board

I made a similar point. If they find a pyramid that has a Star Trek sliding door, let's talk. If aliens are supposed to have built the pyramids because someone can try to reinterpret mythology and archeology through the grid of contemporary pop 'mythology' about aliens, then why not the sliding doors... and phasers too. Where is the phaser and photon torpedo cannon on these pyramids, or the deflector array, or the replicator, or the transporter? Show me that stuff.

[MrMan]

@Pixel--Dude

So there are some superficial similarities between mythologies and modern pop culture related to aliens. So what does that prove?

In the Marvel comics, there are several heroes and villians who could have picked up those rocks and built the pyramids without resorting to the alien hypothesis. So why don't we just believe that prehistoric versions of the Incredible Hulk, Spiderman, Luke Cage, and a few other characters got together and build the pyramids. But you see, they got Professor Hulk just a bit angry, and with his brain he could still figure out how to build the thing, but he was angry enough to be strong enough to build it without turning into a more dangerous Hulk. What is wrong with that theory? Think about it. Some of these superheroes are super smart scientists and they can figure out how to align the pyramids, and some of the superpowered beings have superprecision. Maybe Captain America helped align the pyramids?

That is facetious of course, but it is similar to the alien hypothesis? Why? Because the flying saucers are the work of fiction, TV, etc. So if stories about boats or cities from mythology also happen to conform to stories about space aliens with such things in modern movies... the movies are fiction just like the superheroes in the paragraph above.

There are people who claim to be abducted by aliens, but scientists who have researched this, including agnostics, report that such accounts are the same as if not identical to reports of interactions with demons. The UFO stuff is mainly in the occult domain. They also used to conform to past ideas of science and technology, telling people they came from the back of the moon when scientists thought that was a viable alternative, or flying just faster than whatever blimps or planes or whatever we had in the air could travel.

It could be the similarities between pyramids indicates that mankind had some common technology and culture before dispersing that included building such buildings. There is also a trend toward astrology/astronomy in religion across pagan cultures. People did spend a lot of time looking a the sky before gas then electric lights were invented. At night, the world, or half of it, was literally a much darker place just two hundred years ago.

It may be there were some technologies that were lost. There was some plates that had some images etched into them that were discovered in Egypt. It looks like art, but there was some scientific speculation that they could have been used as solar panels of a sort, set in the sun to absorb electricity and used as lights, or even used to kind of produce a kind of magnetic 'levitiation' over another surface, like with some of the monorail trains. The Egyptians actually had an electric battery of sorts, quite a large one. They could have had some technology to move large stones, and apparently so.

[Cornfed]

There are people who claim to be abducted by aliens, but scientists who have researched this, including agnostics, report that such accounts are the same as if not identical to reports of interactions with demons.

Mightn't that indicate they are describing the same real phenomenon in different ways.

On the wider issue, history clearly does state that pre-bronze age societies were ruled by separate species known as "gods". The only reason to deny this seems to be the hysterical religious idea that "everyone knows" such a thing can't be true.

[MrMan]

There are people who claim to be abducted by aliens, but scientists who have researched this, including agnostics, report that such accounts are the same as if not identical to reports of interactions with demons.

Mightn't that indicate they are describing the same real phenomenon in different ways.

On the wider issue, history clearly does state that pre-bronze age societies were ruled by separate species known as "gods". The only reason to deny this seems to be the hysterical religious idea that "everyone knows" such a thing can't be true.

Something similar isn't that opposed to a Biblical worldview depending on how you define 'gods,' except the bronze age part.

[Pixel--Dude]

Ahhh, thank you @Pixel—dude, I’ll be all over this thread in a week or two if possible, no matter if the trolls try to derail it while I’m away, because I was into the Ancient Aliens hypothesis way before it was cool (as a boy before dial-up internet came to the area where I lived in a crappy town on the Left Coast in the 90s).

I actually first got the notion about it from reading the Old Testament for the first time and thought something along the lines of: “Damn, obviously this thing talking isn’t “God” since he’s ranting about having no other gods before him and also f***s everything up since his creations don’t do anything he wanted them to, so this sounds like some angry aliens were creating genetic hybrid creatures, then wiped them out with the old flood” (which from what I’ve read was a geological fact, even if the scriptural stuff is basically a syncretic mishmash of old Astro theological religion slathered together by lying jews).
I guessed even that the new theoretical thing (now a reality) of genetic cloning was what the creation of Eve from the “rib”, but I’ll have to elaborate later....
That was just speculation and not what I think is the actual story of exactly what happened, but yeah, I was onto this before I even discovered the early birds researching the theory.

Then later I was at a library book sale and was all over old nifty-smelling paperbacks by Erich Von Däniken, who is awesome even though he made a few logical faux paus and errors in his enthusiasm in a few earlier titles (which he acknowledged later), but no blame there.

That TV show Ancient Aliens they made much more recently was quite a nice solid overview, even if there’s stronger vs weaker points and they stretch it a bit once in a while to pump out more episodes, but NBD, because no one is even remotely close in any way shape or form to “debunking” them on so many points.

The dimwits who come in saying that it’s like a cult or that the show is a “religion” don’t have any weight regardless of whether cultists have popped up, since they cannot offer any explanations except naysaying or saying that the Ancient Aliens hypothesis is “racist” even though the evidence is global across most or all racial groups so that makes no sense.

I will get back to you with what I see as the key points that no one can “debunk” unless they can explain them (which thus far they can’t), and there are MANY.

Yeah no worries, buddy. Just reply when you can. I also think the bible has clues about alien origins and humanity being created by a pantheon of gods and goddesses rather than a so-called all powerful god. For starters there is a slip up in the book of Genesis where it says “Let US make man in OUR image” but this Jewish book is a plagiarism of the Sumerian myth anyway and in that myth it is Enki (also slandered as the biblical serpent) who suggests to his father and brother that they create humanity by using the essence of the primal hominids that were the native species and the blood of a god, to give humanity the capacity for reason. So that we could follow complex instructions.

These aliens, or the benevolent ones at least, taught humanity civilization as well as metallurgy and other useful lessons so that we may flourish as successful civilizations. And look what happened in our history, civilization sort of just "popped up" in mesopotamia with nothing preluding it aside from these universal stories globally of humanity interacting with these "gods" and "goddesses"

I have also enjoyed the show Ancient Aliens, because I think they cover a lot of these themes really well, but they also throw in a lot of shit about Big Foot for example so that they can keep making episodes for monetary gain. For the most part though their information is pretty interesting. It puzzles me how people like MrMan seem to think any notion of alien life creating civilization, religions or humans themselves, is derived solely from this TV show and science fiction movies when anyone can look into this stuff for themselves.

Looking forward to seeing which key points you have to make upon your return. It will be interesting to see both @MrMan and @CaptainSkelebob debunk these points you have in store.

@Tsar, perhaps this is a topic which might interest you. I think I already tagged @Lucas88 but now that you have returned to the forum I will tag you as well.

[Pixel--Dude]

So......
Aliens are smart enough to build ships that can move billions of lightyears across space to pile rocks on top of each other???
Cmon PD.....
If the pyramids had sliding doors and air conditioning inside these tombs then maybe I would be on board

I made a similar point. If they find a pyramid that has a Star Trek sliding door, let's talk. If aliens are supposed to have built the pyramids because someone can try to reinterpret mythology and archeology through the grid of contemporary pop 'mythology' about aliens, then why not the sliding doors... and phasers too. Where is the phaser and photon torpedo cannon on these pyramids, or the deflector array, or the replicator, or the transporter? Show me that stuff.

@MrMan and @CaptainSkelebob Why do aliens and their activities on Earth have to conform to your conceptions of advanced life which you guys yourselves have derived from science fiction movies?

Star Trek sliding doors, photon cannons and air conditioning.... all this stuff, by your own admission, is from TV shows. I've watched Ancient Aliens, but I've also done research independently of this show. Have either of you?

And besides, these pyramids were never intended to be used as tombs. There was never any evidence found inside them to indicate this was ever the case. Not a single mummified pharaoh has ever been exhumed from the pyramids.

There are theories they were built as some kind of complex power plant, a source of energy that was constructed across one of Earth's energetic lay lines. Something we can't comprehend. I'm not saying this is what I believe personally, just offering alternate theories.

I have no idea why the aliens would build pyramids if I am truthful. But I just don't accept that they were built by Egyptians using logs and ramps. The official story is just too ridiculous. For it to work how they said it did then these Egyptian builders had to put down a block every 5 minutes. As well as build the ramp all the way up the almost 500ft structure

[Pixel--Dude]

@Pixel--Dude

So there are some superficial similarities between mythologies and modern pop culture related to aliens. So what does that prove?

In the Marvel comics, there are several heroes and villians who could have picked up those rocks and built the pyramids without resorting to the alien hypothesis. So why don't we just believe that prehistoric versions of the Incredible Hulk, Spiderman, Luke Cage, and a few other characters got together and build the pyramids. But you see, they got Professor Hulk just a bit angry, and with his brain he could still figure out how to build the thing, but he was angry enough to be strong enough to build it without turning into a more dangerous Hulk. What is wrong with that theory? Think about it. Some of these superheroes are super smart scientists and they can figure out how to align the pyramids, and some of the superpowered beings have superprecision. Maybe Captain America helped align the pyramids?

That is facetious of course, but it is similar to the alien hypothesis? Why? Because the flying saucers are the work of fiction, TV, etc. So if stories about boats or cities from mythology also happen to conform to stories about space aliens with such things in modern movies... the movies are fiction just like the superheroes in the paragraph above.

There are people who claim to be abducted by aliens, but scientists who have researched this, including agnostics, report that such accounts are the same as if not identical to reports of interactions with demons. The UFO stuff is mainly in the occult domain. They also used to conform to past ideas of science and technology, telling people they came from the back of the moon when scientists thought that was a viable alternative, or flying just faster than whatever blimps or planes or whatever we had in the air could travel.

It could be the similarities between pyramids indicates that mankind had some common technology and culture before dispersing that included building such buildings. There is also a trend toward astrology/astronomy in religion across pagan cultures. People did spend a lot of time looking a the sky before gas then electric lights were invented. At night, the world, or half of it, was literally a much darker place just two hundred years ago.

It may be there were some technologies that were lost. There was some plates that had some images etched into them that were discovered in Egypt. It looks like art, but there was some scientific speculation that they could have been used as solar panels of a sort, set in the sun to absorb electricity and used as lights, or even used to kind of produce a kind of magnetic 'levitiation' over another surface, like with some of the monorail trains. The Egyptians actually had an electric battery of sorts, quite a large one. They could have had some technology to move large stones, and apparently so.

But if the mythological stories are all fiction then why are there common motifs across every ancient culture? Even in remote places the indigenous peoples spoke of men from the stars etc. These stories have nothing to do with fictional characters from Marvel and the two things aren't even similar.

So, if the Egyptians had such technology that could build the pyramids then why is there no evidence of it today? Why haven't we found any of it? And why did they not talk about the construction of the pyramids in any of their hieroglyphics? There isn't a single hieroglyph on earth that indicates some kind of planning or story of humans using such technology to construct these structures. Its far more consistent to assume that aliens did it and took their technology with them when they left earth. That is why there is no evidence on Earth of such technology even existing. But there is testimonial evidence that beings from the stars arrived at Earth.

The part about encounters with aliens and demons being similar I can accept. I've long thought that our planet is now held by malevolent extraterrestrials which are also interdimensional and can take on the forms of other things. So human looking spirits for example like the Shadow Men CaptainSkelebob talked about in another thread. My friend who I used to scaffold with told me his house is haunted and one day he saw one of the ghosts turn into a grey alien.

Have you heard about some of the horror stories regarding alien abductions? Corpses found with body parts removed with such surgical precision it kind of blows apart the theories of psychotic cults running around performing random surgery on animals or even other humans. One of the biggest indicators of something being wrong is that these animals (and sometimes human) corpses are found with no blood at the scene. They are also found drained of blood completely.

[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vw9Qst194A8[/youtube]
A video on cattle mutilation.

[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lIDmEKS2vJA&t=835s[/youtube]
Story of Jonathan Lovette

[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hxSka_vl6Gc[/youtube]

There are lots of cases of this happening. How do you explain these occurrences away with conventional reasoning?

I don't believe these cold and calculating interplanetary surgical killers are the same beings talked about in ancient mythology, who had a human appearance similar to ours. But I think they are a separate group who see humanity as cattle for their experiments.

[Tsar]

There are theories they were built as some kind of complex power plant, a source of energy that was constructed across one of Earth's energetic lay lines. Something we can't comprehend. I'm not saying this is what I believe personally, just offering alternate theories.

Leylines are very important and I became into them earlier in the year when I began to look more into the occult and spiritual things. Leylines are one of the most recent discoveries or rediscovered metaphysical things because most spiritual secrets were lost or destroyed. I know for a fact that leylines are real because of personal experiences.

[galii]

Doctor Christiana Kohler, Egyptologist at Macquarie University, explained that by putting rollers under the stones (and by using some oxen), “a gang of eight men can actually handle a two and a half tonnes heavy block.”

There are even paintings on the wall of the tomb of a later Egyptian nomarch showing workers (and not aliens) hauling a statue weighing 58 metric tons on an enormous hand-drawn sled.

https://thenewstack.io/ultimate-logisti ... t-pyramid/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djehutiho ... e.E2.80.9D

[MrMan]

Yeah no worries, buddy. Just reply when you can. I also think the bible has clues about alien origins and humanity being created by a pantheon of gods and goddesses rather than a so-called all powerful god. For starters there is a slip up in the book of Genesis where it says “Let US make man in OUR image” but this Jewish book is a plagiarism of the Sumerian myth anyway and in that myth it is Enki (also slandered as the biblical serpent) who suggests to his father and brother that they create humanity by using the essence of the primal hominids that were the native species and the blood of a god, to give humanity the capacity for reason. So that we could follow complex instructions.

Why would you think that is a 'slip up?' As a Christian, I see that from a trinitarian perspective. At least the Logos was involved in the creation. I have also heard non-Christian interpretations, such as God addressing the divine council or angels in the royal plural.

We should also consider that the Biblical authors and readers knew what knowledge was floating around about the spirit-world and the Mesopotamian interpretations of it. There other other elim or elohim mentioned in the Bible besides the creator. There is also the term b'nei Elohim, the 'sons of God.' The dead sea scrolls (c.f. LXX) manuscripts of Deuteronomy 32 say the LORD divided the nations according to the number of the sons of God. That may refer to YHWH giving these spiritual entities guardianship over other nations besides Israel, and retaining Israel as an inheritance/portion, at least for a time. Though in Psalm 82, God judges the elohim for their not doing justice and decrees that He will inherit the nations. He also offers the nations to the Messiah.

I recall reading in a book by Don Richardson about how various cultures and peoples actually have a concept of the Most High God, even if they worship other entities. There was one, the Karen in Bhurma, I think, that believed that God named Yawa created man and woman and put them in a garden, and they sinned. Based on the words of their prophet or prophets, they were waiting for a white an with a black book to tell them how to be reconciled with the Most High God, while they wore bracelets on their wrists to indicate that they were in bondage to the gnats/demons. There was eventually a mass conversion of the people group when they encountered the son of a blond Swedish missionary couple. One of their prophets told his disciples to follow a donkey to find the man they had been waiting for. It stopped at a hole in the ground. Out popped a blond Swede who was digging a well.

Back to the Bible, the Deuteronomy 6 passage and other passages indicate the sons of God cohabitating with human women was a bad thing. A lot of the Mesopotamian literature, and Greek also, present it in a positive light-- Gilgamesh, for example, or Hercules.

You might be interested in reading or watching material from Michael Heiser. He's an author-- both Ancient Near East/Old Testament type studies, and also alien-science fiction. He goes to ancient alien type conferences. But he has a PhD from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. So he has studied a lot of this Mesopotamian literature, along with Biblical and intertestamental literature, and he focuses on some of the same things you are discussing. Here is an ]interviewwith him I found with a quick search: [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJt-vJr6Sog.[/youtube] I seem to recall his saying that Ancient Aliens did a 'hit job' on him once, so he may have been in a clip on that show, presented in a negative light. He has shown some flaws in one of their author's arguments, from a scholarly perspective, so maybe they don't like him for that reason. Ancient Aliens is an entertainment show, after all, rather than a scholarly type show.

For the most part though their information is pretty interesting. It puzzles me how people like MrMan seem to think any notion of alien life creating civilization, religions or humans themselves, is derived solely from this TV show and science fiction movies when anyone can look into this stuff for themselves.

I haven't watched that much of it. Just enough to turn me off. It's a conspiracy theory style approach to the topic... huge irrational leaps and conclusions. I don't care for it. You can look at the debunking video for an example illustrating some of the problems with the approach the show takes.

I don't see any reason to think that entities from the spirit-realm are actually little physical green reptile men, or giant eyeballs with tenticals, or bug eyed humanoids with no nose, that travel across the universe in a saucer-shaped space ship. If a physicist can conceptualize of a ship bending space in front of it (wow, a physicist could describe warp drive) that does not mean there is evidence that this can or does happen, or that technology to do such a thing exists. If it did, that wouldn't mean that spiritual entities that interact with people in non-physical ways are actually fleshly beings on a distant planet that travel here in rocketships or in flying saucers.

As I mentioned before, researchers who have researched UFO phenomenon find it to be an occulting phenomenon. Two agnostic scientists decades ago, one of whom did a report for Congress, basically determined that the accounts of interactions with UFOs were similar to if not identical to accounts of encounters with demons. Dr. Hugh Ross, an astrophysicist who has interviewed those who experienced UFO type phenomenon found that how intense their encounters were corresponded with their involvement in the occult. The vast majority are explained by simple phenomenon like viewing the planet Venus at certain times, weather balloons and such. Of those that cannot be explained that way, dabblers in the occult see lights in the sky. Those more intensely involved in the occult might see the ship, or see aliens, or talk to aliens get abducted and such. The more intense experiences happen to those more intensely involved in the occult.

If you acknowledge there is spiritual, occult, etc. phenomenon, why bring space ships into the explanation in the first place?

Ross also found that technological displays kept pace with the current understanding/mythology, etc. In the early part of the 20th century, their ships could go slightly faster than our blimp-type craft and they claimed to be on the back side of the moon. Scientists now consider aliens on the back side of the moon not to be feasible, so now they are from far away, and their craft are faster than our jets. Explanations fit our current technological theories. It makes sense that they may be spiritual beings pretending to be physical alien type beings.

[MrMan]

But if the mythological stories are all fiction then why are there common motifs across every ancient culture? Even in remote places the indigenous peoples spoke of men from the stars etc. These stories have nothing to do with fictional characters from Marvel and the two things aren't even similar.

You would have to give me some quotes about 'men from the stars.' I know that the Romans associated some gods with the stars, or supposedly deified people becoming stars. There is a comment... maybe a joke... about a dead Caesar becoming a star, and a similar thought in the Aeneid-- maybe about Aeneaus. But men coming from the stars? In what cultures? I think you, or your sources, would be inclined to take stories about gods coming down from heaven as a story about men from the stars, right?

So, if the Egyptians had such technology that could build the pyramids then why is there no evidence of it today? Why haven't we found any of it? And why did they not talk about the construction of the pyramids in any of their hieroglyphics? There isn't a single hieroglyph on earth that indicates some kind of planning or story of humans using such technology to construct these structures. Its far more consistent to assume that aliens did it and took their technology with them when they left earth. That is why there is no evidence on Earth of such technology even existing. But there is testimonial evidence that beings from the stars arrived at Earth.

Not knowing how the pyramids were constructed is in no way evidence at all for space aliens doing it or being behind it. If you already believed space aliens were down here helping out, that might be an appealing theory. But if you don't believe that, it's not evidence in the least.

How many hieroglyphs are there in the world, and how long did it take you to read them all? Where did you learn to read hieroglyphics? Where is there testimonial evidence of beings from the stars building the pyramid--- other than non-standard interpretations of Egyptian art that conventional Egyptologists interpret differently? (Is there that even.)

And there are those who offer 'naturalistic' interpretations of how the pyramids could have been constructed. Think about the Romans and concrete. At some point, 300 or 500 or whenever, the knowledge of Roman concrete was lost. So for 1300 years or 1500 years, until the 1800's, mankind (or Europeans) did not know how to use concrete. Since people did not understand this ancient building method, is that proof, or even some kind of weak evidence, for aliens helping the Romans make concrete to build the various buildings they made with it?

Men who lived 4000 years ago were intelligent like we were. Some of their societies were rather well organized and had specialized divisions of labor. If they put their minds and effort to it, they could figure out ways to solve building problems. Some of these ways may have been lost over time. That doesn't mean space men had to do it.

The part about encounters with aliens and demons being similar I can accept. I've long thought that our planet is now held by malevolent extraterrestrials which are also interdimensional and can take on the forms of other things. So human looking spirits for example like the Shadow Men CaptainSkelebob talked about in another thread. My friend who I used to scaffold with told me his house is haunted and one day he saw one of the ghosts turn into a grey alien.

So why would any of the aliens have to space aliens from distant planets that live in exclusively 3 dimensional bodies composed of molecules, as opposed to spiritual-type beings that have the ability to interact with the physical realm?.

Have you heard about some of the horror stories regarding alien abductions? Corpses found with body parts removed with such surgical precision it kind of blows apart the theories of psychotic cults running around performing random surgery on animals or even other humans.

Why would surgical precision blow that theory apart? First of all, consider your sources. Spooky type shows are entertainment. Ancient Aliens is a prime example of 'spinning' the data, and skipping over more logical explanations to lead to the alien conclusion. Two of your videos are Youtubers. One of them had a source-- what was it some scary bedtime story TV show?

Secondly, if the facts are right on all these videos... like the Discovery channel one, which sounds a little more credible... how is this evidence for aliens? There is some percentage of the world population involved in non-mainstream cults. There are Satanists of different varieties. My wife and I had a long conversation with a former Satanist in Indonesia about the various rituals. Apparently a lot of them were sexual in nature. But there are also cultists, whether they call themselves Satanists or otherwise, that are really into blood. There are even groups who consider themselves vampires who drink blood. If other people could be in weird cults, why couldn't surgeons, veterinarians, or other medical technician types join cults and develop technologies to extract organs, blood, etc. in these strange ways?

One of the biggest indicators of something being wrong is that these animals (and sometimes human) corpses are found with no blood at the scene. They are also found drained of blood completely.

[MrMan]

But if the mythological stories are all fiction then why are there common motifs across every ancient culture? Even in remote places the indigenous peoples spoke of men from the stars etc. These stories have nothing to do with fictional characters from Marvel and the two things aren't even similar.

You would have to give me some quotes about 'men from the stars.' I know that the Romans associated some gods with the stars, or supposedly deified people becoming stars. There is a comment... maybe a joke... about a dead Caesar becoming a star, and a similar thought in the Aeneid-- maybe about Aeneaus. But men coming from the stars? In what cultures? I think you, or your sources, would be inclined to take stories about gods coming down from heaven as a story about men from the stars, right?

So, if the Egyptians had such technology that could build the pyramids then why is there no evidence of it today? Why haven't we found any of it? And why did they not talk about the construction of the pyramids in any of their hieroglyphics? There isn't a single hieroglyph on earth that indicates some kind of planning or story of humans using such technology to construct these structures. Its far more consistent to assume that aliens did it and took their technology with them when they left earth. That is why there is no evidence on Earth of such technology even existing. But there is testimonial evidence that beings from the stars arrived at Earth.

Not knowing how the pyramids were constructed is in no way evidence at all for space aliens doing it or being behind it. If you already believed space aliens were down here helping out, that might be an appealing theory. But if you don't believe that, it's not evidence in the least.

How many hieroglyphs are there in the world, and how long did it take you to read them all? Where did you learn to read hieroglyphics? Where is there testimonial evidence of beings from the stars building the pyramid--- other than non-standard interpretations of Egyptian art that conventional Egyptologists interpret differently? (Is there that even.)

And there are those who offer 'naturalistic' interpretations of how the pyramids could have been constructed. Think about the Romans and concrete. At some point, 300 or 500 or whenever, the knowledge of Roman concrete was lost. So for 1300 years or 1500 years, until the 1800's, mankind (or Europeans) did not know how to use concrete. Since people did not understand this ancient building method, is that proof, or even some kind of weak evidence, for aliens helping the Romans make concrete to build the various buildings they made with it?

Men who lived 4000 years ago were intelligent like we were. Some of their societies were rather well organized and had specialized divisions of labor. If they put their minds and effort to it, they could figure out ways to solve building problems. Some of these ways may have been lost over time. That doesn't mean space men had to do it.

The part about encounters with aliens and demons being similar I can accept. I've long thought that our planet is now held by malevolent extraterrestrials which are also interdimensional and can take on the forms of other things. So human looking spirits for example like the Shadow Men CaptainSkelebob talked about in another thread. My friend who I used to scaffold with told me his house is haunted and one day he saw one of the ghosts turn into a grey alien.

So why would any of the aliens have to space aliens from distant planets that live in exclusively 3 dimensional bodies composed of molecules, as opposed to spiritual-type beings that have the ability to interact with the physical realm?.

Have you heard about some of the horror stories regarding alien abductions? Corpses found with body parts removed with such surgical precision it kind of blows apart the theories of psychotic cults running around performing random surgery on animals or even other humans.

Why would surgical precision blow that theory apart? First of all, consider your sources. Spooky type shows are entertainment. Ancient Aliens is a prime example of 'spinning' the data, and skipping over more logical explanations to lead to the alien conclusion. Two of your videos are Youtubers. One of them had a source-- what was it some scary bedtime story TV show?

Secondly, if the facts are right on all these videos... like the Discovery channel one, which sounds a little more credible... how is this evidence for aliens? There is some percentage of the world population involved in non-mainstream cults. There are Satanists of different varieties. My wife and I had a long conversation with a former Satanist in Indonesia about the various rituals. Apparently a lot of them were sexual in nature. But there are also cultists, whether they call themselves Satanists or otherwise, that are really into blood. There are even groups who consider themselves vampires who drink blood. If other people could be in weird cults, why couldn't surgeons, veterinarians, or other medical technician types join cults and develop technologies to extract organs, blood, etc. in these strange ways?

One of the biggest indicators of something being wrong is that these animals (and sometimes human) corpses are found with no blood at the scene. They are also found drained of blood completely.