For Christians: Which Bible version do you read?

[Adama]

Wow. I just realized how ridiculously stupid the question even is. What would be the point of eternal fire if it isnt for eternal punishment?

The fire being unquenchable is a different matter and doesn't itself indicate eternal torture.

Then that would defeat the purpose for which it was made.

See how the mind can somehow parse things apart which cannot be parsed, but those things which need to be properly seen cannot be seen. That is amazing.

[Ghost]

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[Adama]

The verses you quote about belief come primarily after the Gospels, which is when belief was shoe-horned in and over-emphasized. If belief was always the most important part, why did God even bother giving the Israelite the Ten Commandments? Why did Jesus ever teach that you must forgive others for God to forgive you? Why is there anything beyond "believe X to be saved"?

I really try to understand a belief-based religion, but it has never made sense. Are you saying that what we do doesn't matter? Since you deem yourself saved, are you allowed to commit any atrocity you want? Are you able to be saved without forgiving others their trespasses? (Despite Jesus' teaching.) The whole idea of belief being the key part invalidates everything that God and Jesus did before. I'm not saying belief is itself bad. I'm saying that it doesn't make sense based upon what God and Jesus were saying. The parts about belief come from later Biblical books and interpolations.

Explain it. Or are you going to give me some bullshit like, "I'm not obligated to do that"?

Jesus paid the price for our sins. Once we believe, we're saved. Otherwise He lied, and we know that God isn't a liar. We are punished on earth for our sins. Specifically diseases, ailments, financial troubles and the list of what He can do to punish His children must be great. He promises chastisement for those who believe in Him. That's why when He healed one man, He told him to make sure he doesn't sin again, unless a worse ailment would come upon him.

John 5:13-14 KJV
13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.

14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.


If salvation were by works, we would all be damned, because no one is sinless. Even thoughts of foolishness are sins before God.

Proverbs 24:9 KJV
9 The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men.

The good news is that God doesn't hold our sins accountable to our souls. The body will pay, but the soul remains redeemed. There is also probable loss of reward in heaven as well.

Hebrews 8:12 KJV
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

[Ghost]

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[Adama]

Romans 3:3 KJV
[3]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed
God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 3:4KJV
[4]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 3:5KJV
[5]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on
him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 3:6 KJV
[6]Even as David also describeth the blessedness
of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Romans 3:7 KJV
[7]Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Romans 3:8 KJV
[8]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
forgiven = past, covered.=present, will not impute=future

Upon belief, past sins are forgiven, current sins are covered, and future sins will not be imputed to our souls.

[Adama]

I'm interested in you explaining your belief system. I've got questions that I want you to answer directly without trying to confound things like you do. I'll start a new thread.

I'm more than willing to explain to you, if you are truly interested. This is part of my mission is life; my assignment from the Holy Ghost, to help others understand the gospel.

[Ghost]

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[gnosis]

There are no simple answers to complex theological questions. People have to discover the truth about the Divine for themselves. Holy scripture and wise teachers can point the way. But true conversion occurs in the heart.