Differences of Catholicism vs Christianity

[Winston]

Why do you say you agree with Catholics?

You are making things up. I never said I agree with Catholics. I said they are the original Christian faith out of which Protestantism grew and that is 100% true.

You did say you agree with Catholics earlier. See below.

viewtopic.php?style=11&p=342753

Just for clarity, I was not saying that Catholics are antichrists. My intention was to show that even right after the time of Jesus, there were already people preaching false versions of Christianity.

Well Catholics believe you are not truly Christian too so it's a tie score. I would tend to agree with them by the way.

Your question strongly implies that I said I agree with Catholics GENERALLY which I don't.

So you only agree with Catholics on one issue, that Protestantism came from them, that's all, nothing else right?

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Why do you say you agree with Catholics?

You are making things up. I never said I agree with Catholics. I said they are the original Christian faith out of which Protestantism grew and that is 100% true.

You did say you agree with Catholics earlier. See below.

viewtopic.php?style=11&p=342753

Just for clarity, I was not saying that Catholics are antichrists. My intention was to show that even right after the time of Jesus, there were already people preaching false versions of Christianity.

Well Catholics believe you are not truly Christian too so it's a tie score. I would tend to agree with them by the way.

Your question strongly implies that I said I agree with Catholics GENERALLY which I don't.

So you only agree with Catholics on one issue, that Protestantism came from them, that's all, nothing else right?

No. I would tend to agree with Catholics that Protestants are not truly Christians. Protestants are the Johnnies-Come-Lately of Christianity and they are the most vile, illogical, and bigoted of all. How dare @Neo and others like him determine who is worthy of heaven and who is not? These are veritable DEMONS on earth.

[Neo]

Catholic and Protestants are basically the same thing, as I've been stating all along. Look at the Church of England and the American Episcopal church. These churches are essentially Catholicism just under a new name. Same with most Protestant religions.

I am not a Protestant. The churches where I go to and where I've gone to do not consider themselves to be Protestant. Christianity is not protesting against the Catholic church because it never sprang out of it.

Some unsaved, non-Christian people for some reason cannot tell the difference or maybe they simply refuse to acknowledge it.

Catholicism is its own religion. It has nothing to do with Christianity. From the stained windows, to altar boys, to the Pope, to confession, to holy water, rosary beads, nuns, monks, monasteries, statues, celibate pastors, calling pastors by God's title of "Father," praying to Mary as the mediator which is putting her in Christ's place, ancient relics of dead bodies, veneration and beatification of dead men into saints (whereas in Christianity every saved person is a saint), baptism by pouring water onto the head instead of fully immersing the body, categorization of sins into different levels, putting ash on the forehead, priests wearing long robes, having an international institution with a central hierarchy (as opposed to single, local, independent churches), and much more.

These are not Christian practices. These are Catholic practices that are either not in or blatantly against the Bible, which is God's Word.

Then there's the major difference in salvation doctrine: works by sacraments vs faith in Christ.

In fact, Catholic doctrine changes depending on the leadership. Some leadership will say that a Catholic doesn't even need to believe in God to be saved.

[Neo]

There's a proof (if a person is willing to accept it) in the Book of Revelation (the first three chapters) that there was no pope in the first century AD, when John is told by Christ to write to the various churches, rather than simply writing to the pope. He is told to write to individual churches not to the head of the central hierarchy.

[Winston]

Catholic and Protestants are basically the same thing, as I've been stating all along. Look at the Church of England and the American Episcopal church. These churches are essentially Catholicism just under a new name. Same with most Protestant religions.

That's true. But I thought Protestant Churches also include Lutheran, Baptist, Pentacostal, Presbyterian, etc? Aren't all those Protestant too? I thought Protestant meant all Christian denominations that were not Catholic. Isn't that true?

Are you talking about the Protestant Churches in the 1500's and 1600's only?

How come today, the Christian Churches don't use the term "Protestant" or call themselves that? Is that term outdated or only referred to the churches that Martin Luther founded that split off from the Catholic Church? If so, that would include the Church of England or Anglican Church too right? And those aren't that different from the Catholic Church, they have a similar religion, only that they don't submit to the authority of the Vatican or Pope right?

[Neo]

There are many denominations.

Episcopal, Methodist, which came out of Episcopal and the Church of England, then African Methodist Episcopal (A.M.E.), Calvinism and Reformed Baptist (Calvinism), Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Seventh Day Adventist, Presbyterian, Anabaptist, Mennonite, Lutheran and even more. Then there's Greek and Russian Orthodox, etc.

Catholicism >> Church of England >> Episcopal >> Methodist >> AME.

You may find some Christians among the Baptist (likely), Pentecostal (less likely) and Lutheran (unlikely) denominations, but it would still take investigating, because many churches still have "work salvation". That is they may say faith in Christ and then later add in some form of works as proof or to stay saved. (I do not recommend Lutheranism or Pentecostalism, and as for Baptist with study to determine their doctrine.)

Hopefully each church has a website with a page indicating "Statement of Faith" where it is explained what form of salvation the church subscribes to.

If you want some more information on what caused each denomination to form, you'll need to dig into history and then look in between the lines. Some "Christian" denominations were started by Freemasons, and you know what that's all about. Some are named after ancient prophets, such as John the Baptist (and Jesus said that John the Baptist was the greatest among men, except for Jesus Himself, of course).

Keep in mind the whole Catholicism claim of Peter being a Pope is untrue. It's not noted anywhere in the Bible. The claim is based on when Simon-Barjona (Peter) stated that he believes that Jesus is the Son of God: this belief is the Rock and Foundation of the church (assembly of the believers), not the fact that Peter's name means rock. When a person gets saved it's because they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God, nothing to do with Peter meaning rock or the Catholic church. This is a misunderstanding.

And in the Book of Revelation, Christ doesn't tell John to write to the Pope or the Catholic church. He says to write to individual churches, meaning there was no notation of some hierarchy of Catholicism or papacy.

It doesn't matter what they call the church. It matters what they believe and practice.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

There are many denominations.

Episcopal, Methodist, which came out of Episcopal and the Church of England, then African Methodist Episcopal (A.M.E.), Calvinism and Reformed Baptist (Calvinism), Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Seventh Day Adventist, Presbyterian, Anabaptist, Mennonite, Lutheran and even more. Then there's Greek and Russian Orthodox, etc.

Catholicism >> Church of England >> Episcopal >> Methodist >> AME.

You may find some Christians among the Baptist (likely), Pentecostal (less likely) and Lutheran (unlikely) denominations, but it would still take investigating, because many churches still have "work salvation". That is they may say faith in Christ and then later add in some form of works as proof or to stay saved. (I do not recommend Lutheranism or Pentecostalism, and as for Baptist with study to determine their doctrine.)

Hopefully each church has a website with a page indicating "Statement of Faith" where it is explained what form of salvation the church subscribes to.

If you want some more information on what caused each denomination to form, you'll need to dig into history and then look in between the lines. Some "Christian" denominations were started by Freemasons, and you know what that's all about. Some are named after ancient prophets, such as John the Baptist (and Jesus said that John the Baptist was the greatest among men, except for Jesus Himself, of course).

Keep in mind the whole Catholicism claim of Peter being a Pope is untrue. It's not noted anywhere in the Bible. The claim is based on when Simon-Barjona (Peter) stated that he believes that Jesus is the Son of God: this belief is the Rock and Foundation of the church (assembly of the believers), not the fact that Peter's name means rock. When a person gets saved it's because they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God, nothing to do with Peter meaning rock or the Catholic church. This is a misunderstanding.

And in the Book of Revelation, Christ doesn't tell John to write to the Pope or the Catholic church. He says to write to individual churches, meaning there was no notation of some hierarchy of Catholicism or papacy.

It doesn't matter what they call the church. It matters what they believe and practice.

I don't even think NEO believes in god. I think he is a con-artist who is trying to portray himself as "holier than thou" to boost his ego and to advance his agenda of getting people to follow his brainwashing program. There is true evil in the man so don't be fooled.

[Neo]

Christianity was around way before the 1800s in Europe.
@Winston

Also take note, that King James, the man after whom the modern authoritative English Bible is named, wrote a book for his son on how to be a good king (Basilikon Doron http://stoics.com/basilikon_doron.html ). It is online, and I have posted a link elsewhere in this subforum. In it, he never claimed any particular denomination. He merely stated that he wasn't a papist ("because I am no Papist" ), meaning he wasn't a Catholic. He also stated that salvation is by believing ( "we could not be saued by doing, we might at least, bee saued by beleeuing" ).

This also proves that Christianity was around way before the 1800s, despite what some people claim that it is only from the USA.

[Neo]

Also in Catholicism, Mary is elevated to godhood by a myth that she was a perpetual virgin, even though she was married. But what does the Bible have to say on this matter?

Matthew 1:25 KJV And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

Jesus also had brothers and sisters, by blood, which Mary gave birth to:

Matthew 13:55-56 KJV

55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

Galatians 1:19 KJV

19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

[Winston]

Christianity was around way before the 1800s in Europe.
@Winston

Also take note, that King James, the man after whom the modern authoritative English Bible is named, wrote a book for his son on how to be a good king (Basilikon Doron http://stoics.com/basilikon_doron.html ). It is online, and I have posted a link elsewhere in this subforum. In it, he never claimed any particular denomination. He merely stated that he wasn't a papist ("because I am no Papist" ), meaning he wasn't a Catholic. He also stated that salvation is by believing ( "we could not be saued by doing, we might at least, bee saued by beleeuing" ).

This also proves that Christianity was around way before the 1800s, despite what some people claim that it is only from the USA.

I'm talking about Evangelical Christianity, the kind that Billy Graham popularized into the mainstream. The fast food kind that you believe in today. The kind where you invite Jesus into your heart and get eternal life right away. The kind that claims every word of the Bible is infallible and dictated by God verbatim. That kind didn't exist before the 1800's or 1700's.

Do you think William Shakespeare and the people of his time believed in that kind of Christianity? No way. Show me evidence of that. Of course Protestants believe in being "saved by faith" but they never believed it was as simple as inviting Jesus into your heart, or that "once saved always saved". Etc. Those are new American inventions. And from what I heard, most Christians of the past 2000 years didn't believe that God would send all non-believers to hell. They believed that God would allow people into heaven if they were good people, regardless of what religion they believed.

The Christianity you know is known as "Christian fundamentalism" or "Evangelical Christianity". If you google those terms, you will see that they evolved in the American church community.

See what Dr. Ryan Reeves said below about Christian Fundamentalism and where it came from.



Lecture about how fundamentalism was made in America.

"Made in America": Christian Fundamentalism - Dr John A Dick

[Neo]

Christianity was around way before the 1800s in Europe.
@Winston

Also take note, that King James, the man after whom the modern authoritative English Bible is named, wrote a book for his son on how to be a good king (Basilikon Doron http://stoics.com/basilikon_doron.html ). It is online, and I have posted a link elsewhere in this subforum. In it, he never claimed any particular denomination. He merely stated that he wasn't a papist ("because I am no Papist" ), meaning he wasn't a Catholic. He also stated that salvation is by believing ( "we could not be saued by doing, we might at least, bee saued by beleeuing" ).

This also proves that Christianity was around way before the 1800s, despite what some people claim that it is only from the USA.

I'm talking about Evangelical Christianity, the kind that Billy Graham popularized into the mainstream. The fast food kind that you believe in today. The kind where you invite Jesus into your heart and get eternal life right away. The kind that claims every word of the Bible is infallible and dictated by God verbatim. That kind didn't exist before the 1800's or 1700's.

Do you think William Shakespeare and the people of his time believed in that kind of Christianity? No way. Show me evidence of that. Of course Protestants believe in being "saved by faith" but they never believed it was as simple as inviting Jesus into your heart, or that "once saved always saved". Etc. Those are new American inventions. And from what I heard, most Christians of the past 2000 years didn't believe that God would send all non-believers to hell. They believed that God would allow people into heaven if they were good people, regardless of what religion they believed.

The Christianity you know is known as "Christian fundamentalism" or "Evangelical Christianity". If you google those terms, you will see that they evolved in the American church community.

See what Dr. Ryan Reeves said below about Christian Fundamentalism and where it came from.

Forget about the famous names you've listed above. You make a distinction when there is none. Saved by faith is the same as once saved always saved. These are the same believers. Those who believe in saved by faith also believe in Once saved always saved, because if anyone believes that salvation can be lost, they believe it can be lost by works, which means they actually believe in "saved by faith + works," which means they're deceived and not saved.

A person who believes in his own works is not saved because he believes in himself and his own works rather than Christ's complete works. A person who believes in his own works doesn't need a Messiah. He's made himself his own messiah through his own works and denied Christ by trusting in himself. Salvation is either entirely by works (and only Jesus Christ can be saved by works because a person would need to be God to be saved by works) or a person is saved by faith alone; not both.

A saved person believes that a person only needs to get saved once. God's not playing games with salvation. If He didn't want the person , then that person probably be granted salvation. This isn't a game.

The post from king James proves that he was the same as a modern Christian of today. It's just it wasn't popular. There's no popularity in the media. The Catholic church had more control. And there wasn't any major institution set up by some multi-millionaire freemason to declare it for history and all time. It's quiet and person-to-person.

Were you not a Christian before? The Bible says that the unbeliever is under wrath and condemned already.

Also, just for repetition, most saved people are not protestants, since they are not protesting against the Catholic church. Christians want nothing to do with Catholicism and have not broken off from it, for the reasons I've listed above in this thread. Protestantism is essentially Catholicism.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

@Neo the heretic is an earthly demon whose flesh will burn in the fires of hell.

And so it will be done.....

[Winston]

Jeffrey Daugherty reveals the deception and long term con game of the Protestant Reformation and what it was really all about. It was a major false flag event he says, just like 9/11 was today. His arguments are interesting. See below. He also explains the Counter Reformation and the role of the Jesuits behind the whole thing and how it was all rigged.

[Moretorque]

Winston what do you think of the Urakami church bombing ?

[Neo]

Jeffrey Daugherty reveals the deception and long term con game of the Protestant Reformation and what it was really all about. It was a major false flag event he says, just like 9/11 was today. His arguments are interesting. See below. He also explains the Counter Reformation and the role of the Jesuits behind the whole thing and how it was all rigged.

I don't pay attention to Gnosticism.

As for the Reformation, Christianity did not come from Catholicism. Catholicism itself is a false version of Christianity.