Unveiling the Demiurge: Challenging the Benevolence and Supremacy of Yahweh

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

@Pixel--Dude

What Tsar sent you are compelling arguments. I hope he has been taking his anti depressant pills and will come back in the future.

I am not a Christian. I'm agnostic, so I'm not really certain if god or demiurge exist or not.

I don't want to go off tangent here, but it might be possible that we were created by extra terrestrial beings instead of the supreme being and being controlled by the Demiurge. Those extra terrestrial beings have been acting as our gods in ancient times and each extra terrestrials have their own faction and interest. So my main point is there might be divine intervention both good or bad, but that might be because various Alien factions has been vying for power over this planet for millennia.

Arrival of the Annunaki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sylWHdO ... FMythology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzU1ZkX ... FMythology

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

@Pixel--Dude

What Tsar sent you are compelling arguments. I hope he has been taking his anti depressant pills and will come back in the future.

I am not a Christian. I'm agnostic, so I'm not really certain if god or demiurge exist or not.

I don't want to go off tangent here, but it might be possible that we were created by extra terrestrial beings instead of the supreme being and being controlled by the Demiurge. Those extra terrestrial beings have been acting as our gods in ancient times and each extra terrestrials have their own faction and interest. So my main point is there might be divine intervention both good or bad, but that might be because various Alien factions has been vying for power over this planet for millennia.

I agree with this assessment! I've thought the same thing for a while about ancient aliens travelling to earth to give humanity a quantum leap in her evolution.

viewtopic.php?style=11&f=14&t=46405 this thread is about the Ancient Astronaut Hypothesis. You may find some of the content here interesting.

viewtopic.php?style=11&f=15&t=45587 this thread is about spiritual experiences through the use of entheogens. I've mentioned in here some gods and goddesses I've seen during these experiences.

viewtopic.php?style=11&f=15&t=45751 this is a thread about Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality.

The reason I sent you these links is because as well as hoping they could be revived with renewed interest, but they also contain relevant information regarding this conversation.

@Lucas88 and myself believe that Yahweh was an extraterrestrial. He visited earth and there was a war for the spiritual future of humanity. We can see parallels between many religions and mythologies.

1. All mythologies talk about their gods and goddesses arriving in the bellies of fire breathing dragons. Or in flying boats, or flying cities.

2. There's a creation myth and passing of fire to humanity from one particular god against the will of the King of the gods or some such. Prometheus/Enki/Shiva/ the Biblical serpent for example.

@publicduende made some good comments about this in a different thread about why Christianity is not the correct religion.

@gsjackson are you christian? I'm sorry I forgot to include you in the OP.

Thanks for the links. I'll check it out.
It's quite interesting that there are pyramids across the world in similar style and how creation myths all around the world are quite similar.
It's more than a coincidence. We were created by the Annunaki in a lab called Eden, but Mainstream society thinks otherwise and think that is preposterous and the masses stick to what they know.

This is an old website, but it has tons of info about various good and bad aliens, Atlantis, Mu, Lemuria, Illuminati, etc. If you have the time to dig through. Worth the read. I was binge reading it back in 2014.
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_tema.htm

[kukushka]

@Pixel--Dude

The concept of the Demiurge originated in ancient philosophies such as Gnosticism. It refers to a lower deity who exists outside and separate from the true supreme being, responsible for creating the material world. According to this view, the Demiurge possesses limited power and often exhibits flawed intentions. In contrast, the ultimate Supreme Being is associated with truth, enlightenment, and goodness.

-the concept and the word demiurge itself originates from platos timaeus. the gnostics originally took the concept from plato. its impossible to fully appreciate the role of the demiurge and the ultimate supreme being without fully understanding what the platonic form and matter distinction means. the demiurge symbolizes matter and the ultimate supreme being symbolizes spirit. both are mutually dependent on each other. many online gnostics I met have been totally unfamiliar with platonism and how this affects the way in which the demiurge concept is meant to be understood

we have to consider truth, enlightenment and goodness in the context of platonism. things like truth and enlightenment mean something different than what modern readers interpret it as. truth and enlightenment is referring to awareness of the eternal unchanging forms, that is, abstract concepts. the only "true" instance of something is its eternal primordial abstract form, the material manifestation of it is inherently "false". falsity here doesnt imply deliberate deception or something negative, its just objectively stating something about matter in comparison to form.

when its said that the demiurge forbids people from learning stuff (implying ignorance) its a metaphorical way to imply that material existence is actually a less true reality than the eternal forms/unchanging concepts that precede the various manifestations of matter. material existence (the demiurge) keeps people in ignorance because its more believable, visible and tangible than the eternal forms which only exist in the conceptual/mental plane. its very easy to believe that a physical structure in the shape of a triangle is the "real" thing when really the most real triangle is the invisible mental concept of a triangle.

Reflecting on teachings from religious texts, some argue that Yahweh, as depicted in the Bible, does not always embody benevolent attributes. Numerous passages describe acts of violence, cruelty, and seemingly arbitrary decisions. The story of Noah's flood, where countless lives were destroyed, or God's endorsement of slavery, are examples that raise concerns about His compassion and love.

-various stories (both good and bad) about Yahweh are meant to be interpreted allegorically. youre not supposed to literally interpret them. judaism has a very rich interpretation of the old testament and Yahweh which isnt present in christianity. just because modern day christians interpret Yahweh and his actions in a very literal sense doesnt mean that jews do too.

Critics argue that if Yahweh were truly benevolent and powerful, He would have the ability and desire to prevent atrocities, natural disasters, and human suffering. The continued presence of evil in the world implies a limited or flawed deity, which aligns more closely with the attributes of a Demiurge rather than a supreme being.

in part, Yahweh is a metaphor for physical reality. good and bad things happen all the time and Yahweh is a representation of that. Yahweh only appears evil if youre interpreting him literally. existence in the physical world is constantly changing and dualistic in nature; we experience birth and death, good and bad, happiness and sadness, youth and old age etc etc.

as for the eternal world of forms nothing changes, its unchanging and things/contrast/difference etc cannot be fully experienced there, only conceptualized. people or things dont live there and its not a 3D physical reality, its only mental/conceptual. this represents the other aspect of Yahweh which is the non-physical and spiritual aspect. so Yahweh represents the entirety of existence, both the form and matter aspects, but the demiurge specifically refers to his matter half.

10. Lack of intervention in human suffering: Despite being attributed with supreme power, Yahweh's inaction or limited intervention in instances of human suffering raises doubts about his benevolent and loving nature. The existence of widespread pain, injustice, and atrocities in the world suggests Yahweh may be more akin to a demiurge with limited concern for humanity's well-being.

the problem with critiques like these against Yahweh (especially in the context of gnosticism) revolves around people reading things too literally. Yahweh is a highly philosophical abstraction thats couched in religious terms. more jews realize this than christians do. if you interpret the demiurge as a literal malevolent being thats oppressing people then youre missing the point. have you ever looked at a volcano erupt and kill everything in the surrounding area? or what about wild animals killing each other? do you think Yahweh is causing this? evil is an artificial judgement that people place on events done by other people, it doesnt actually exist in the way that we think it does.

to make a comparison with hinduism; brahman seeks to experience itself, in order to fully appreciate the experience it needs the presence of opposites. how can you know good without bad and happiness without sadness? without the presence of "evil" or negative things you wouldnt be able to appreciate the good things. this is all an experience. its a mistake to assume that goodness is inherently better than badness, rather the correct way to understand it is that they're complimentary with each other.

BTW all the stuff happening lately isnt because a literal demiurge is causing them to happen, rather its related to broad cyclical periods of time like the yuga cycle or the greek system of four ages. everything happening right now was always meant to happen, this is part of the larger patterns of the universe experiencing itself. yeah stuff is scary right now but its all part of the experience, this idea that theres this epic struggle against the demiurge and the NWO is completely false, this is all just a play and everyone has a role.

you are free to believe whatever you want to but im just telling you how the gnostics understood this concept. my own opinion is that modern gnostics are well intentioned but misinformed. they criticize mainstream christians for being gullible or misunderstanding things but modern gnostics are equally misunderstanding.

[fschmidt]

-the concept and the word demiurge itself originates from platos timaeus.

I am not surprised, I hate Plato. Most f***ed-up beliefs originate with Plato.

Reflecting on teachings from religious texts, some argue that Yahweh, as depicted in the Bible, does not always embody benevolent attributes. Numerous passages describe acts of violence, cruelty, and seemingly arbitrary decisions. The story of Noah's flood, where countless lives were destroyed, or God's endorsement of slavery, are examples that raise concerns about His compassion and love.

I love the stories of Yahweh slaughtering scum.

-various stories (both good and bad) about Yahweh are meant to be interpreted allegorically. youre not supposed to literally interpret them.

Yes but modern people are too stupid to understand such things. So they should be Christians or Muslims which works much better for morons than the Old Testament does.

[MrPeabody]

Yahweh is a low frequency spiritual entity that took possesion of similar minds. That's why anger and revenge are his main resonances. He is nothing special

Jivanmukti explains our current age of spiritual ignorance and the return of the light beings.

https://youtu.be/aRZy5Mk_PfA?si=lpiTZs_ajOfqLsJe

[Outcast9428]

1. Creation of a flawed world argument:

The reason why the world is flawed goes back to the original point which is that God did not originally create flawed world. The original world he created was a perfect paradise but adam and eve, in eating the apple, did not gain benevolent knowledge but rather gained knowledge of evil. God did not want humans to gain this knowledge because it would bring evil into the world and God is not willing to destroy free will in order to eliminate evil.

2. Moral contradictions in biblical stories:

A lot of the bad things done in the Old Testament are not really God's actions but rather the actions of the Israelites. The stories in the Old Testament were written by the Israelites themselves, I would not put it past them to have done evil deeds and then tried to justify it by saying that God commanded them to do it. The Israelites kept on falling out of God's favor so it doesn't seem like God liked them very much. He even sent Jesus to essentially create an entirely new religion because of how unsatisfied he was with the Jews.

3. Yahweh's limited knowledge:

To be honest, I don't have an answer for this.

4. Promotion of fear based worship:

Fear is a very effective way of motivating people to behave better. Bad people who do not care about being selfish or hurting other often cannot change unless they are afraid of the consequences of continuing to act in the way that they do. If God did not promote any fear in people, then belief in the religion would have no positive effect on bad people... It would only effect good people who don't need fear to behave well in a positive manner.

5. Lack of universal salvation:

Universal salvation would be unjust. Should evil people be saved? That would be unfair to good people who've spent their entire lives trying to be good if they got the same outcome as murderers, rapists, sadists, and tyrants did.

6. Divine violence and retribution:

Sometimes killing people is the only way that good can flourish. If you have a hive or society that is so rottenly evil that the sheer degree of corruption among them is bound to influence badly to the point that even good people are forced to become bad people in order to survive in such a society, then the only option that God has is to simply kill them. Humans have done the same thing several times in history when confronted with "hives of evil" that simply cannot be changed or redeemed due to the severe moral rot that has enveloped the place.

7. Absence of evidence for a loving nature:

God also created the forests, the rivers, the mountains, the planets, the sun, the gentle breeze on a warm summer day, the waterfalls, and the animals. He created the emotions of love, joy, happiness, compassion, empathy, forgiveness, and friendship. I don't know why exactly some natural disasters exist, but the reason for wars, murder, genocide, and other nasty things is because of God's unwillingness to mess with free will. God cannot stop these things from happening because he is unwilling to make people choose not to do evil. We may not understand his reasons why, but there has to be a really good reason.

8. Encouragement of tribalism:

In Catholicism, committing a sin without full knowledge that it is wrong is considered to be a venial sin. Venial sins do not send you to hell but rather are something you must do penance for while in purgatory. Jesus's sacrifice is also considered to be universal, meaning that all of mankind benefits from his sacrifice. Because of this, virtuous followers of other religions would likely end up in purgatory rather then hell because their lack of faith in the Christian God is not an explicit rejection of him but rather a lack of knowledge of him. As for God promoting tribalism among the virtuous against the non-virtuous, however, this is simply justice. God wishes to reward the people who did good in life, and punish those who did evil.

9. Commandment of blind faith:

Christians do not have all the answers to everything because the human mind is not capable of comprehending everything. Our minds, compared to God's, are like the mind of a dog compared to a human. To a dog, as his or her owner, you quite literally appear to be a god. Dogs probably believe humans can do anything. I've seen my dog look outside, and then look at me, and tilt his head as if he genuinely expected me to be capable of doing something about the weather outside.

Because the judgment of human beings cannot be trusted, humans are instead expected to put their trust in God, since he is much more capable of judging right from wrong.

10. Lack of intervention in human suffering:

Well this once again goes back to free will. God is unwilling to force evil people not to do evil things. He is also unwilling to stop people from being incompetent. Given that humans seem to have a need for "challenge" of some kind. God probably doesn't give us everything we want immediately because he knows we would become bored and frustrated if he did. Suffering can also change a person for the better. If someone is forced to go through unpleasant situations it can give them more empathy for people who are going through the same suffering.

[Winston]

This makes sense. If you replace the idea of an all loving, all good, all perfect God with one that is evil and flawed and parasitic, or semi-evil at least, then the world suddenly makes 1000x more sense and is far less confusing. But it's too disturbing, so most people can't go there. Especially Christians who are programmed to believe that God MUST be all good and all perfect. It's very difficult to go against one's own programming. Furthermore, there is zero basis for a God that is all perfect and all good. There's no reason to suppose that, other than that church authority told you so, or the Bible told you so. All this is obvious, but unfortunately, most can't see it.

Btw @Pixel--Dude. Where do you think Yahweh is now? Did he get killed off or exiled or simply relocated? Could the Earth have been sold to another ET race, like portrayed in the movie "Jupiter Ascending" where planets are bought and sold? And so we have new owners now? If so that might explain why there is a New World Order to change things and usurp the monarchical bloodlines in favor of socialism and democracy and run by secret societies. What do you think?

[Winston]

@Lucas88 and @Pixel--Dude:

You will love this video about Yahweh.



Description:

The True Origin of Yahweh: From Anunnaki to the God of the Bible

In the vast collection of gods and supernatural beings in human beliefs, the name 'Yahweh', the god of the Bible, stands out and has been remembered for many centuries. Why is this name so influential and deep? Could Yahweh have ties to the Anunnaki that we don't know about?

Today, we're stepping into the maze of the past, trying to understand the mystery surrounding one of the most powerful figures in the history of human religion - Yahweh. But who is he really? Is he an all-powerful god that is worshipped by religions that come from Abraham? And if not, who or what could Yahweh really be?

The holy books of Abraham's followers tell us about a god who seems to run a grand show in the cosmos. This god creates the universe, stars, animals, plants, people, and everything we know. This all-powerful Maker often goes by the name Yahweh in these texts. This name isn't just a tag, it's like a door that lets us see how people's ideas of god have changed over time. It represents our never-ending quest to understand the universe and our place in it. The name Yahweh has had a big effect on our shared history, shaping societies, influencing customs, and guiding the story of humanity.

Looking closely at Yahweh is more than just studying. It's like going on a trip into the heart of our culture, trying to understand our shared past. But what does this mean for our understanding of divinity? What mysteries might we uncover about our origins?

This trip takes us back to where civilization first started, in the ancient Near East. Could this be where the name Yahweh first emerged? Here, we start to dig into a fascinating and complex story.

Interestingly, this trip to the Near East brings us face-to-face with the Anunnaki, who were gods in ancient Mesopotamian myths. And as you might know, not only. These gods played a big role in stories about the world's creation and were worshipped by the Sumerians, Akkadians, Assyrians, and Babylonians. But could there be a link between these ancient gods and Yahweh? Is it possible that Yahweh grew out of, or even came from, these Anunnaki?

Finding these answers lets us uncover a hidden layer of ancient stories, changing how we understand the beginning of humans. There's an even older story hidden in the Genesis text that has been kept out of public view for hundreds of years because of translation mistakes and the rules of the Church. But what is this ancient tale trying to tell us? By the end of this journey, we hope to answer the big question: Who is Yahweh, the god in the Bible? And what implications does this have for our understanding of religion and spirituality?

Our oldest reference to Yahweh is found on the Moabite Stone, or the Mesha Stele, erected by King Mesha of Moab around 840 BCE, celebrating his victory over Israel. The stele recounts a story similar to that found in 2 Kings 3, albeit with one crucial difference: the stele proclaims a Moab victory, while the Bible claims victory for Israel. Interestingly, the reference to Yahweh reinforced the belief that he was exclusively an Israelite deity, as Mesha brags about seizing objects associated with Yahweh and presenting them to his own god, Kemosh.

Fast forward to 1844 when archaeologist Karl Richard Lepsius excavated the ruins of the ancient city of Soleb in Nubia. Extensive excavations wouldn't take place until 1957, led by archaeologist Michela Schiff Giorgini. They found a reference to a group known as the "Shasu of Yahweh" inscribed at the base of one of the temple's columns. This reference to Yahweh, connected to the Shasu, suggested that this god had been worshipped by another group long before the biblical narratives are thought to have occurred.

The Egyptians described the Shasu as Semitic nomads, often viewed as outlaws. While attempts were made to connect them with the Hebrews, these claims were rebutted. The reference to the Shasu of Yahweh not only pushes the origins of this deity further back than previously thought but also insinuates that Yahweh might not have been Canaanite in origin. But if not, then what’s the origin of the first Yahweh?

[Winston]

Wow @Pixel--Dude check this out. Paul Wallis of the 5th Kind channel and former minister, explains why the Bible says that Yahweh is a fire breathing DRAGON! Not the creator of the universe! Wow. This means that @MrMan has been worshipping a dragon the whole time. lol

[Winston]

@Lucas88, check out what I posted to Charles Giuliani about what Yahweh could be, instead of being totally non-existent. I posted this under his talk about Yahweh being Satan.

https://odysee.com/@Christendumb2:0/yah ... -part-1:dd

"Btw Charles, you said a few times that the Jews could have made up Yahweh out of whole cloth. However, the Jews aren't stupid enough to believe in something that doesn't exist right? They are too shrewd and clever for that. There are other possibilities too. I was wondering if you have considered them. For example:

1) Yahweh could be an egregore or tulpa. Look up the book on egregores by Mark Stavish on Amazon. There is an Audible version too. He says that once the Romans stopped worshipping their pagan gods, their empire fell because those gods were egregores that could no longer protect them once they stopped worshipping them. That makes sense. Also check out the horror movie "The Empty Man". It's about a cult that creates tulpas or thoughtforms using their thoughts and beliefs. Ancient Jewish magicians could have created this egregore?
2) Yahweh could be an ancient alien, like Erich von Daniken says. Or an interdimensional being from another dimension.
3) He could be a lower level deity from the 4th dimension like New Agers say, who parasites and feeds off our energy and requires human sacrifices and wars to feed off of. Like in that original Star Trek episode "Day of the Dove". Watch that episode sometime. You will love it. It illustrates perfectly how the controllers work.
4) He could be an ancient advanced being that existed before known human history began, before antiquity, and had a lot of technologies that were lost which appeared to be magic to ancient people.
5) He could be an A.I. computer that runs the matrix. Like in that original Star Trek episode "Return of the Archons" and "The Apple". Do you remember those episodes? They are classic Star Trek.

So you see, there are other possibilities for what Yahweh is too. He doesn't have to be totally non-existent. Have you considered the above possibilities?"


"Charles, there are some good horror movies that show that God and Satan follow each other and go hand in hand. For example, all the exorcist movies show this. And some recent ones are "The Unholy" and "The First Omen". They show that where God is, Satan follows, as if they are on a tag team or two sides of the same coin, or the same entity playing both the role of light and dark. Like good cop, bad cop. So it makes sense. Also Isaiah 45 says that the Lord creates both good and evil. So Yahweh could be like a movie director who casts both good guys and villains and controls the whole movie with the light and dark side."