How do agnostics/atheists form their philosophical beliefs?

zacb · Post by **zacb** » June 22nd, 2012, 6:27 am

I have been a Christian almost my entire life, and so obviously most of my decisions have some influence from my faith. But I was wondering how atheist/agnostics form their opinion as far as philosophy and morals go . (Not to generalize , but I guess what is common among them) Generally speaking, is it more consequential or more denotological ? I am just kind of curious.

Post by **Winston** » June 22nd, 2012, 8:58 am

It's simple: No evidence for God = No reason to believe in him.

That's the short version of it. I'm not an atheist and that's not my belief, but that's what they claim.

You can research their sites and articles for an indepth explanation. There are many humanist sites as well that get philosophical about this. One that I know is:

http://www.secularweb.org

zacb · Post by **zacb** » June 22nd, 2012, 9:06 am

But I guess what I am asking is that while most religious people believe denotologically (or out of duty) in morality (morality is the key, not whether not there is a God/gods), do most atheist believe in their version of morality based upon a relative standard/ denotological standard, or based upon an absolute standard/consequential (consequentialism)? I am not asking why you do or don't believe in God/gods. All I am asking is what standards do you base your decisions on? Is it on the consequences? Or upon a duty to someone or something? Or am I missing the point?

Post by **Winston** » June 22nd, 2012, 9:09 am

Atheists usually claim that there is no objective morality. They believe that society needs basic morals for everyone to get along and to stop crime. As long as you respect others, protect life and rights, and don't do bad things, it's enough. They believe that people should be basically moral without the need for a religion to base it on.

Does that answer your question?

zacb · Post by **zacb** » June 22nd, 2012, 9:30 am

But I guess for instance why shouldn't I kill someone? The consequences, or a duty of some sorts to my fellow human beings or something similar? So is it some innate desire not to kill someone (regardless of where it came from), an ulterior motive, or a duty to your fellow humans?

zacb · Post by **zacb** » June 22nd, 2012, 9:47 am

I guess what ultimately determines the "7 deadly sins" if you will?

Post by **fschmidt** » June 22nd, 2012, 10:19 am

zacb, first you have to distinguish between atheists and non-theists. Atheists are religion-hating intolerant jerks, while non-theists simply don't believe in God. I discuss this in detail in Atheism. Atheists are immoral but non-theists may be moral. Buddhists and Confucianists are examples of moral non-theists. There are a few non-theistic sources of morality. One is to simply have faith in the way/morality of some moral system. Another is to develop one's own internal moral sense. Morality is an emotion which can be developed.

zacb · Post by **zacb** » June 22nd, 2012, 11:28 am

So I guess are non-theist/atheist or whatever name you want to put on it, believe just by faith in a similar way that Christians, Hindi, Jews, Muslims or any other person believes? I guess to me shouldn't beliefs (morals) be based upon logic instead of faith alone or should it be just because it is?

zacb · Post by **zacb** » June 22nd, 2012, 11:50 am

I guess what makes killing a defacto standard , and not just a relative whim someone believes is wrong?

zacb · Post by **zacb** » June 22nd, 2012, 11:57 am

So is morality ultimately based on consequence ?

The_Hero_of_Men · Post by **The_Hero_of_Men** » June 22nd, 2012, 12:02 pm

fschmidt wrote:zacb, first you have to distinguish between atheists and non-theists. Atheists are religion-hating intolerant jerks, while non-theists simply don't believe in God. I discuss this in detail in Atheism. Atheists are immoral but non-theists may be moral. Buddhists and Confucianists are examples of moral non-theists. There are a few non-theistic sources of morality. One is to simply have faith in the way/morality of some moral system. Another is to develop one's own internal moral sense. Morality is an emotion which can be developed.

Some might be like that, but for the most part, you're WRONG. I know plenty of atheists here in San Antonio, and they are good, honest, moral people-- in some cases, even more so than a lot of "Christians". Would you like it if someone came on this board and said that "all religious people (especially those Christians) are crazy wack-jobs and weaklings"? If not, then how is it okay to say that all atheists are immoral, religion-hating jerks? That would be like saying that all Muslims are terrorists/extremists (only a small minority are), or like saying that all Christians are "door-to-door" proselytizers (once again, only a few are). Granted, some atheists ARE religion-intolerant, but those are the MILITANT atheists. Most atheists are people who are just trying to live their lives. Religion (especially Christianity) does not have a monopoly on human morality.

Post by **fschmidt** » June 22nd, 2012, 12:14 pm

zacb wrote:So I guess are non-theist/atheist or whatever name you want to put on it, believe just by faith in a similar way that Christians, Hindi, Jews, Muslims or any other person believes? I guess to me shouldn't beliefs (morals) be based upon logic instead of faith alone or should it be just because it is?

We can't communicate if we don't use words clearly. Non-theist does not equal atheist. Beliefs do not equal morals.

Atheists have faith in immorality. Atheists don't use logic to arrive at morals, rather they let their base instincts lead them to immorality and then use logic to rationalize this.

Buddhists choose to follow the path that Buddha laid out. Such choices are usually the result of a combination of the thought and emotion. Once the choice has been made, there tends to be an element of faith that Buddha's path is the right one. Buddhism is not based on belief but rather on living and thinking in a certain way which includes morality. I am not as familiar with Confucianism, but I think the story is similar there.

Morals, or virtually anything else, cannot be based on logic alone. Logic allows you to start with assumptions and derive conclusions. But there must be something to start with. In the case of morality, this is an emotion that is built into our brains which can be developed. Morality is developed by considering situations and looking inside oneself to see how one feels about the morality of the situation. If one does this enough by studying religions which raise moral question, and by studying history, then one can arrive at a developed morality.

Post by **fschmidt** » June 22nd, 2012, 12:19 pm

The_Hero_of_Men wrote:Some might be like that, but for the most part, you're WRONG. I know plenty of atheists here in San Antonio, and they are good, honest, moral people-- in some cases, even more so than a lot of "Christians". Would you like it if someone came on this board and said that "all religious people (especially those Christians) are crazy wack-jobs and weaklings"? If not, then how is it okay to say that all atheists are immoral, religion-hating jerks? That would be like saying that all Muslims are terrorists/extremists (only a small minority are), or like saying that all Christians are "door-to-door" proselytizers (once again, only a few are). Granted, some atheists ARE religion-intolerant, but those are the MILITANT atheists. Most atheists are people who are just trying to live their lives. Religion (especially Christianity) does not have a monopoly on human morality.

I didn't say "all atheists", I just said "atheists" meaning most. We obviously disagree on the behavior of the majority of atheists. This is a factual disagreement that is hard to prove either way. I suggest that you go to an atheist forum and pretend to be a Christian and see how the atheists react. I think you will be surprised at the hostility. Your quote "all religious people (especially those Christians) are crazy wack-jobs and weaklings" is basically what I see atheists saying all the time.

zacb · Post by **zacb** » June 22nd, 2012, 12:23 pm

Ok that kind of answers my question. Thanks

The_Hero_of_Men · Post by **The_Hero_of_Men** » June 22nd, 2012, 1:02 pm

fschmidt wrote:
The_Hero_of_Men wrote:Some might be like that, but for the most part, you're WRONG. I know plenty of atheists here in San Antonio, and they are good, honest, moral people-- in some cases, even more so than a lot of "Christians". Would you like it if someone came on this board and said that "all religious people (especially those Christians) are crazy wack-jobs and weaklings"? If not, then how is it okay to say that all atheists are immoral, religion-hating jerks? That would be like saying that all Muslims are terrorists/extremists (only a small minority are), or like saying that all Christians are "door-to-door" proselytizers (once again, only a few are). Granted, some atheists ARE religion-intolerant, but those are the MILITANT atheists. Most atheists are people who are just trying to live their lives. Religion (especially Christianity) does not have a monopoly on human morality.
I didn't say "all atheists", I just said "atheists" meaning most. We obviously disagree on the behavior of the majority of atheists. This is a factual disagreement that is hard to prove either way. I suggest that you go to an atheist forum and pretend to be a Christian and see how the atheists react. I think you will be surprised at the hostility. Your quote "all religious people (especially those Christians) are crazy wack-jobs and weaklings" is basically what I see atheists saying all the time.

I personally do not feel that way (the quote I used). I realize that you have a point. Yes, atheists do say that, but the ones I know and the ones I have observed try to refrain from saying those types of things.

I think we can agree on the fact that MILITANT atheists deny belief in a Higher Power to justify their hatred/contempt toward religion.

However, I cannot say that either most or some atheists behave like that, since there are those that hater/despise ANY religion, and there are those that are simply trying to live their lives as morally as possible.

I hope you did not take my post as an attack on you personally, because that was NOT my intent.