My Initial Impressions Of Sub-Saharan Africa

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I have been in Africa for several weeks, enough time to begin seeing things for what they are here. Here are my impressions:

People in General: The local people here are generally kind, gentle and deferential to international visitors. However, I wonder how much of this is attributable to genuine behavior and how much to self-interest.

The heat, lack of water, and poverty give rise to frequent body odor among the locals. I am getting used to this, but it is unpleasant nonetheless. Women tend to smell less than the men.

Women: African women are nothing like their black American cousins, but they are still objectionable on several counts. Most are thin and feminine, but due to economic depravation, not grace. The women from wealty families are heavy-set like American women due to the easy availability of food for them.

There is a small sub-set of Asian and western women about. The Asian ones are here to work only, there is little chance to socialize with them. The white women seem revel in the attention from African men and interracial couplings are routine. I can't help but wonder if white women choose to work in Africa to satiate their unstated curiosities about African men.

Men: Men are eager to make interpersonal connections with foreigners for what I believe are networking reasons. It is thought that foreigners are walking banks so many men pimp out themselves or relatives as serve domestics, gardeners or cooks. Social relationships imply economic opportunity.

Disease Risk: The threat of Malaria is prevalent, so one must take the medication or face death. Several westerners die each year due to malaria. There are other nasty diseases in Africa also but they are less likely.

Cost of Living: Things that appeal to the westerner are very expensive in Africa so unless you are living in a rural village, don't expect to save money. Also, service and workproduct tend to be poor quality in Africa so one's expectations must always be lowered.

I can't help but mention that the nightlife is full of prostitutes and aggressive women willing to pimp themselves out. These girls are annoying and take away from a night of relaxation and fun. Needless to say, HIV and female genital mutilation make romantic interest in African women a non-starter.

All in all, I would not suggest Sub-Saharn Africa for an expatriate destination. The people who rave about Africa are just being polite, or are poaching sexual activity from the desperate locals. Africa deserves better, but so does the aspiring expat seeking an escape from America.

[Rock]

I have been in Africa for several weeks, enough time to begin seeing things for what they are here. Here are my impressions:

People in General: The local people here are generally kind, gentle and deferential to international visitors. However, I wonder how much of this is attributable to genuine behavior and how much to self-interest.

The heat, lack of water, and poverty give rise to frequent body odor among the locals. I am getting used to this, but it is unpleasant nonetheless. Women tend to smell less than the men.

Women: African women are nothing like their black American cousins, but they are still objectionable on several counts. Most are thin and feminine, but due to economic depravation, not grace. The women from wealty families are heavy-set like American women due to the easy availability of food for them.

There is a small sub-set of Asian and western women about. The Asian ones are here to work only, there is little chance to socialize with them. The white women seem revel in the attention from African men and interracial couplings are routine. I can't help but wonder if white women choose to work in Africa to satiate their unstated curiosities about African men.

Men: Men are eager to make interpersonal connections with foreigners for what I believe are networking reasons. It is thought that foreigners are walking banks so many men pimp out themselves or relatives as serve domestics, gardeners or cooks. Social relationships imply economic opportunity.

Disease Risk: The threat of Malaria is prevalent, so one must take the medication or face death. Several westerners die each year due to malaria. There are other nasty diseases in Africa also but they are less likely.

Cost of Living: Things that appeal to the westerner are very expensive in Africa so unless you are living in a rural village, don't expect to save money. Also, service and workproduct tend to be poor quality in Africa so one's expectations must always be lowered.

I can't help but mention that the nightlife is full of prostitutes and aggressive women willing to pimp themselves out. These girls are annoying and take away from a night of relaxation and fun. Needless to say, HIV and female genital mutilation make romantic interest in African women a non-starter.

All in all, I would not suggest Sub-Saharn Africa for an expatriate destination. The people who rave about Africa are just being polite, or are poaching sexual activity from the desperate locals. Africa deserves better, but so does the aspiring expat seeking an escape from America.

But sub-saharan Africa is so vast with so many countries and languages? Which countries/cities did u visit and how long did u stay in each? I think u can meet some desirable women from the higher classes in some places if u try. I take it u r American but what is your race. If I remember right, u r black. Do u think white, asian, and black tourists from first world countries will pretty much have similar experiences in the countries u visited. Africa gets so little coverage on this forum so it would b great if u would share more. Thanks.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

But sub-saharan Africa is so vast with so many countries and languages? Which countries/cities did u visit and how long did u stay in each? I think u can meet some desirable women from the higher classes in some places if u try. I take it u r American but what is your race. If I remember right, u r black. Do u think white, asian, and black tourists from first world countries will pretty much have similar experiences in the countries u visited. Africa gets so little coverage on this forum so it would b great if u would share more. Thanks.

The region is indeed vast and diverse, but the differences apparent to the Westerner tend to be subtle. For purposes of what really matter to the westerner, most hassles in one country exist in the others to varying degrees. The former English colonies tend to be very similar to each other, as are the former French, Portugese, etc.

Higher class women in Sub-Saharan Africa are not what we think of in Western terms. These are women who come from educated families and/or wealthy families but they are have not shown themselves to be appealing to me.

If you are asking about my ethnicity, I am American of African descent. White visitors have the added burden of percieved wealth therefore attracting scammers, prostitutes, and con artists. Asians are likley to be perceived as Chinese who are insular and ignored outside the business realm. Black Americans are likely to be viewed as slightly less affluent targets (since we are not seen as real Americans) but expected to actually empathize with poor Africans.

Africa is heaven for missionaries, white female sex tourists, or male sex tourists who value quantity over quality. Most others will tolerate the place if they are gainfully employed here.

[FormerWallStreeter]

As a fellow AA Expat that has been spending quite a bit of time in Sub Saharan Africa, please allow me to give my opinion on the issues and the overall fairly negative opinion that you have of the region, line-by-line:

People in General: The local people here are generally kind, gentle and deferential to international visitors. However, I wonder how much of this is attributable to genuine behavior and how much to self-interest.


I find this to be very true, and I feel that culturally, the deference, respect, and well-treatment is genuine, however, many, many people are economically challenged, and are indeed looking to self-interest, similar to how many people would, if they were to befriend Bill Gates, eventually ask him for money. You have to remember that these folks aren't like us who seek money for greed and consumption. They are actually, in my opinion, quite humble and patient considering that their economic plight could indeed cost them their lives. We worry about loosing our cars, our homes, knowing we will get another relatively easily. They worry about LIFE. There is no social safety net.

The heat, lack of water, and poverty give rise to frequent body odor among the locals. I am getting used to this, but it is unpleasant nonetheless. Women tend to smell less than the men.


Heat, water, perfumes, and deodorant are plentiful if you have the money to pay for it. I know that many people in the region have more pressing needs and choose not to spend money on these things. I say this to say that if you want it, and have cash, you can get nearly anything you want while there. Or, buy it on Amazon and have someone ship/forward it to you. As far as the locals and odor, one thing to take into account is that the food is natural and organic, so a sweaty American smells a lot worse than a sweaty African, because of the poor quality, chemical-laced food we consume. But yes, many people smell "au naturale" in SSA. You get used to it quickly, as an athlete gets used to playing ball with sweaty teammates. In a week, I actually started to find the women's natural scent very appealing- laced with pheromones and quite natural. That's a personal preference I suppose. But let it be said: I have never once come across a city woman in SSA with bad breath or smelly feet. SSA women take oral and foot hygiene very seriously. Some will go without necessities to get mani/pedis and to swig Binaca. And besides, you'd be shocked to see how well received a gift of US perfume or Victoria's Secret lotions and sprays are to SSA women.

Women: African women are nothing like their black American cousins, but they are still objectionable on several counts. Most are thin and feminine, but due to economic depravation, not grace. The women from wealthy families are heavy-set like American women due to the easy availability of food for them.

Let's just be open and honest especially when reading some of your prior posts: You just don't like black women. Fair enough. But please keep it objective. Most are indeed thin and feminine. You forget to mention that they are unbelievably attractive, curvy, and exotic, available in all shapes, sizes, [legal] ages, and hues. Unless, like yourself, you just don't like black women. Not at all objectionable, unless you personally have objections. Many are very graceful, and most are educated, as education in SSA is of high regard and importance. Also remember that there is a large emerging middle class. I saw many, many lovely single women driving expensive Land Cruisers, Prados, et al. and running successful small businesses. Keep in mind that these are city women I speak of here. Once you get outside of town, poor is "POE4real" and many of the women are uneducated farm girls. But still feminine, sweet, and hard working. Also be sure not to let language barriers allow you think that someone is not educated or articulate, which is a common Yankee mistake.

There is a small sub-set of Asian and western women about. The Asian ones are here to work only, there is little chance to socialize with them. The white women seem revel in the attention from African men and interracial couplings are routine. I can't help but wonder if white women choose to work in Africa to satiate their unstated curiosities about African men.

So, so very true. And the Asian women isolate themselves in their own small communities. They wouldn't dare bring one of us home and stun the family, regardless of nationality. The white women stick to expat areas unless they are out in the boondocks assuaging guilt by teaching English or trying to make a Brita water filter out of a bucket and some cheesecloth.

Men: Men are eager to make interpersonal connections with foreigners for what I believe are networking reasons. It is thought that foreigners are walking banks so many men pimp out themselves or relatives as serve domestics, gardeners or cooks. Social relationships imply economic opportunity.

Very very true. EVERYBODY is ALWAYS networking. EVERYBODY is also ALWAYS doing commerce. Don't look at this as a bad thing. Look at this as a glimpse into how America used to be long before Walmart and the big box stores, when a man could start a business, work hard, be shrewd and the sky was the limit. It's a modern Wild West. You should actually find it quite fascinating and encouraging that Africans are ALWAYS engaged in commerce. It is truly a ground-level opportunity that could make you rich if you are willing to analyze and fill the gaps where they exist.

Disease Risk: The threat of Malaria is prevalent, so one must take the medication or face death. Several westerners die each year due to malaria. There are other nasty diseases in Africa also but they are less likely.

Yup. Take your meds and wear a condom. No different than the flu here, and Herpes or whatever... except HIV and Malaria can indeed kill, so don't be stupid and just wear a damn raincoat. It's really not that serious. I take an anti-malarial pill once a week. It's cheap and available everywhere. I always wear a helmet. Well DUH? Would you ride bareback ANYWHERE? Brazil? Taiwan? Mexico? Russia? If you get serious about a lady, there are tons of clinics where you can get STD tested. Both of you go together and get tested, then go out for a nice dinner. That is expected of serious couples.


Cost of Living: Things that appeal to the westerner are very expensive in Africa so unless you are living in a rural village, don't expect to save money. Also, service and workproduct tend to be poor quality in Africa so one's expectations must always be lowered.

It's FAAAAAR cheaper as long as you use local brands, and stay where locals stay. If you want Dove soap, Wheaties, and Listerine imported from the US, you will pay through the nose. If you can use Irish Spring, Wheatabix, and Binaca made in South Africa, then enjoy the dramatic discount. Just get used to how locals consume and you will be fine. Have what you absolutely need forwarded to you from the states by family or an Office share or something. But if you think that you are going to bring your American-style consumption habits, patterns, and brand-loyalty with you, then yes, you will bring the associated costs with you also.

I eat, drank, lived like a KING for 80 dollars a day all over East Africa. And when I say a king, I mean nice modern hotel similar to the Marriott, driver, assistant, taxi, all-you can eat, drink, and lolololol well, you get the picture.

I can't help but mention that the nightlife is full of prostitutes and aggressive women willing to pimp themselves out. These girls are annoying and take away from a night of relaxation and fun. Needless to say, HIV and female genital mutilation make romantic interest in African women a non-starter.

There are more prostitutes than you would typically find in the US, but not more than Vegas. And everybody loves Vegas. Last time I was in Vegas, 90% of the women were working girls in some form or fashion, by the busload. And just like in old Vegas, if you want good service in SSA, you have to grease palms. ONE or TWO DOLLARS will usually do. I didn't mind it in old Vegas, and I don't mind it in SSA. And SSA has a lot of highly religious types of women if you like conservative, but you wont find them at the bar or club (duh). Speaking of Vegas, Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania was actually FAR MORE FUN and FAR LESS EXPENSIVE than Vegas or Miami. It's like a big Jamaica. But if you don't like being treated like a celebrity and a wealthy person, I understand. Me, I love the respect and attention I get there- in relaxation and in BUSINESS, that is non-existent for me in the states. People seem to inherently trust and respect me in SSA... in the US... don't make me laugh. SSA showed me, dare I say, how Caucasians feel in America... FREE AND AT HOME. And as far as circumcised women, I've only actually ever seen that once, and it was in the US (a woman from Somalia) and I'll just say that most guys don't know what to do with a clit when it IS there, so yeah, more coital prowess will be needed in order to achieve the same results. Arch your back bro.

All in all, I would not suggest Sub-Saharan Africa for an expatriate destination. The people who rave about Africa are just being polite, or are poaching sexual activity from the desperate locals. Africa deserves better, but so does the aspiring expat seeking an escape from America

I totally disagree with your closing statement. Sure there are a lot of poor people. There is a cultural difference. And poor men, too. I call that a ready workforce. If you need to have a jobby-job, unless you can get on with WB, UN, CDC or a multinational, FORGET IT! I can get an engineer with a Masters in SSA to work for $250 a month. As far as quality, you have to manage quality. You have to be explicit and you do have to micromanage. There are no one-stop-shops or easy extra value menus in SSA. You have to have vision and follow-through to get things done. If you are a hard working business-person, no matter how small, who doesn't need a job, but rather needs to flourish in business, and does not need the social safety net, policing, and societal controls and boundaries that the grand, glorious Stars and Bars has taught us, SSA is the new frontier- get in while the price is low and before the gold rush. If you need those other things I mentioned, head to Australia or France, and send me a postcard, mate. If you feel as though you were just born after the boom times and wish you could have "gotten in" on old money business dealings before your time, then SSA is where it's at.

You just have to be willing to TRULY shake off your US mindset and conditioning and look at things as they really are. Are you ready to be truly free?

Happy Trails!

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I totally disagree with your closing statement. Sure there are a lot of poor people. There is a cultural difference. And poor men, too. I call that a ready workforce. If you need to have a jobby-job, unless you can get on with WB, UN, CDC or a multinational, FORGET IT! I can get an engineer with a Masters in SSA to work for $250 a month. As far as quality, you have to manage quality. You have to be explicit and you do have to micromanage. There are no one-stop-shops or easy extra value menus in SSA. You have to have vision and follow-through to get things done. If you are a hard working business-person, no matter how small, who doesn't need a job, but rather needs to flourish in business, and does not need the social safety net, policing, and societal controls and boundaries that the grand, glorious Stars and Bars has taught us, SSA is the new frontier- get in while the price is low and before the gold rush. If you need those other things I mentioned, head to Australia or France, and send me a postcard, mate. If you feel as though you were just born after the boom times and wish you could have "gotten in" on old money business dealings before your time, then SSA is where it's at.

You just have to be willing to TRULY shake off your US mindset and conditioning and look at things as they really are. Are you ready to be truly free?

When I give a less than stellar account of a country or region, people usually take it as my personal opinion and move on. But when Africa is concerned, there has to be some "African American" who feels the need to pontificate about freeing one's mind, appreciateing the stench of the women, and being glad that the people harass me because that is "commerce in action."

In all of my travels, this region has the LEAST to offer and you should not let your personal sense of nationalism cloud your objectivity on this issue. There is a reason most Africans themselves wish to be away from Africa.

By the way, I found it ironic that you advise me to lose "my US mindset." Apart from an 8 month period last year, I have not lived in the US since 2003 and I was traveling abroad routinely since the 1990's. So I would implore you to take your own advice since I have far more experience in this international game than you. So instead of acusing people of having a US mindset, perhaps you should lose the "Black American" mindset and just accept that not everyone is struck from the same stone and we are individuals here with different tastes and values. Get used to it.

Africa would generally suck for these here men that want to expat for better women and a better life. If you are one of those exceptions who seeks to poach from the desperation there, that is your choice, but don't hate on the men that prefer Europe or Asia just because Africa suits your prurient interests.

Regards.....

[Rocky Top]

As a fellow AA Expat that has been spending quite a bit of time in Sub Saharan Africa, please allow me to give my opinion on the issues and the overall fairly negative opinion that you have of the region, line-by-line:

People in General: The local people here are generally kind, gentle and deferential to international visitors. However, I wonder how much of this is attributable to genuine behavior and how much to self-interest.


I find this to be very true, and I feel that culturally, the deference, respect, and well-treatment is genuine, however, many, many people are economically challenged, and are indeed looking to self-interest, similar to how many people would, if they were to befriend Bill Gates, eventually ask him for money. You have to remember that these folks aren't like us who seek money for greed and consumption. They are actually, in my opinion, quite humble and patient considering that their economic plight could indeed cost them their lives. We worry about loosing our cars, our homes, knowing we will get another relatively easily. They worry about LIFE. There is no social safety net.

The heat, lack of water, and poverty give rise to frequent body odor among the locals. I am getting used to this, but it is unpleasant nonetheless. Women tend to smell less than the men.


Heat, water, perfumes, and deodorant are plentiful if you have the money to pay for it. I know that many people in the region have more pressing needs and choose not to spend money on these things. I say this to say that if you want it, and have cash, you can get nearly anything you want while there. Or, buy it on Amazon and have someone ship/forward it to you. As far as the locals and odor, one thing to take into account is that the food is natural and organic, so a sweaty American smells a lot worse than a sweaty African, because of the poor quality, chemical-laced food we consume. But yes, many people smell "au naturale" in SSA. You get used to it quickly, as an athlete gets used to playing ball with sweaty teammates. In a week, I actually started to find the women's natural scent very appealing- laced with pheromones and quite natural. That's a personal preference I suppose. But let it be said: I have never once come across a city woman in SSA with bad breath or smelly feet. SSA women take oral and foot hygiene very seriously. Some will go without necessities to get mani/pedis and to swig Binaca. And besides, you'd be shocked to see how well received a gift of US perfume or Victoria's Secret lotions and sprays are to SSA women.

Women: African women are nothing like their black American cousins, but they are still objectionable on several counts. Most are thin and feminine, but due to economic depravation, not grace. The women from wealthy families are heavy-set like American women due to the easy availability of food for them.

Let's just be open and honest especially when reading some of your prior posts: You just don't like black women. Fair enough. But please keep it objective. Most are indeed thin and feminine. You forget to mention that they are unbelievably attractive, curvy, and exotic, available in all shapes, sizes, [legal] ages, and hues. Unless, like yourself, you just don't like black women. Not at all objectionable, unless you personally have objections. Many are very graceful, and most are educated, as education in SSA is of high regard and importance. Also remember that there is a large emerging middle class. I saw many, many lovely single women driving expensive Land Cruisers, Prados, et al. and running successful small businesses. Keep in mind that these are city women I speak of here. Once you get outside of town, poor is "POE4real" and many of the women are uneducated farm girls. But still feminine, sweet, and hard working. Also be sure not to let language barriers allow you think that someone is not educated or articulate, which is a common Yankee mistake.

There is a small sub-set of Asian and western women about. The Asian ones are here to work only, there is little chance to socialize with them. The white women seem revel in the attention from African men and interracial couplings are routine. I can't help but wonder if white women choose to work in Africa to satiate their unstated curiosities about African men.

So, so very true. And the Asian women isolate themselves in their own small communities. They wouldn't dare bring one of us home and stun the family, regardless of nationality. The white women stick to expat areas unless they are out in the boondocks assuaging guilt by teaching English or trying to make a Brita water filter out of a bucket and some cheesecloth.

Men: Men are eager to make interpersonal connections with foreigners for what I believe are networking reasons. It is thought that foreigners are walking banks so many men pimp out themselves or relatives as serve domestics, gardeners or cooks. Social relationships imply economic opportunity.

Very very true. EVERYBODY is ALWAYS networking. EVERYBODY is also ALWAYS doing commerce. Don't look at this as a bad thing. Look at this as a glimpse into how America used to be long before Walmart and the big box stores, when a man could start a business, work hard, be shrewd and the sky was the limit. It's a modern Wild West. You should actually find it quite fascinating and encouraging that Africans are ALWAYS engaged in commerce. It is truly a ground-level opportunity that could make you rich if you are willing to analyze and fill the gaps where they exist.

Disease Risk: The threat of Malaria is prevalent, so one must take the medication or face death. Several westerners die each year due to malaria. There are other nasty diseases in Africa also but they are less likely.

Yup. Take your meds and wear a condom. No different than the flu here, and Herpes or whatever... except HIV and Malaria can indeed kill, so don't be stupid and just wear a damn raincoat. It's really not that serious. I take an anti-malarial pill once a week. It's cheap and available everywhere. I always wear a helmet. Well DUH? Would you ride bareback ANYWHERE? Brazil? Taiwan? Mexico? Russia? If you get serious about a lady, there are tons of clinics where you can get STD tested. Both of you go together and get tested, then go out for a nice dinner. That is expected of serious couples.


Cost of Living: Things that appeal to the westerner are very expensive in Africa so unless you are living in a rural village, don't expect to save money. Also, service and workproduct tend to be poor quality in Africa so one's expectations must always be lowered.

It's FAAAAAR cheaper as long as you use local brands, and stay where locals stay. If you want Dove soap, Wheaties, and Listerine imported from the US, you will pay through the nose. If you can use Irish Spring, Wheatabix, and Binaca made in South Africa, then enjoy the dramatic discount. Just get used to how locals consume and you will be fine. Have what you absolutely need forwarded to you from the states by family or an Office share or something. But if you think that you are going to bring your American-style consumption habits, patterns, and brand-loyalty with you, then yes, you will bring the associated costs with you also.

I eat, drank, lived like a KING for 80 dollars a day all over East Africa. And when I say a king, I mean nice modern hotel similar to the Marriott, driver, assistant, taxi, all-you can eat, drink, and lolololol well, you get the picture.

I can't help but mention that the nightlife is full of prostitutes and aggressive women willing to pimp themselves out. These girls are annoying and take away from a night of relaxation and fun. Needless to say, HIV and female genital mutilation make romantic interest in African women a non-starter.

There are more prostitutes than you would typically find in the US, but not more than Vegas. And everybody loves Vegas. Last time I was in Vegas, 90% of the women were working girls in some form or fashion, by the busload. And just like in old Vegas, if you want good service in SSA, you have to grease palms. ONE or TWO DOLLARS will usually do. I didn't mind it in old Vegas, and I don't mind it in SSA. And SSA has a lot of highly religious types of women if you like conservative, but you wont find them at the bar or club (duh). Speaking of Vegas, Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania was actually FAR MORE FUN and FAR LESS EXPENSIVE than Vegas or Miami. It's like a big Jamaica. But if you don't like being treated like a celebrity and a wealthy person, I understand. Me, I love the respect and attention I get there- in relaxation and in BUSINESS, that is non-existent for me in the states. People seem to inherently trust and respect me in SSA... in the US... don't make me laugh. SSA showed me, dare I say, how Caucasians feel in America... FREE AND AT HOME. And as far as circumcised women, I've only actually ever seen that once, and it was in the US (a woman from Somalia) and I'll just say that most guys don't know what to do with a clit when it IS there, so yeah, more coital prowess will be needed in order to achieve the same results. Arch your back bro.

All in all, I would not suggest Sub-Saharan Africa for an expatriate destination. The people who rave about Africa are just being polite, or are poaching sexual activity from the desperate locals. Africa deserves better, but so does the aspiring expat seeking an escape from America

I totally disagree with your closing statement. Sure there are a lot of poor people. There is a cultural difference. And poor men, too. I call that a ready workforce. If you need to have a jobby-job, unless you can get on with WB, UN, CDC or a multinational, FORGET IT! I can get an engineer with a Masters in SSA to work for $250 a month. As far as quality, you have to manage quality. You have to be explicit and you do have to micromanage. There are no one-stop-shops or easy extra value menus in SSA. You have to have vision and follow-through to get things done. If you are a hard working business-person, no matter how small, who doesn't need a job, but rather needs to flourish in business, and does not need the social safety net, policing, and societal controls and boundaries that the grand, glorious Stars and Bars has taught us, SSA is the new frontier- get in while the price is low and before the gold rush. If you need those other things I mentioned, head to Australia or France, and send me a postcard, mate. If you feel as though you were just born after the boom times and wish you could have "gotten in" on old money business dealings before your time, then SSA is where it's at.

You just have to be willing to TRULY shake off your US mindset and conditioning and look at things as they really are. Are you ready to be truly free?

Happy Trails!

Please feel free to post more in here. You gave a pretty decent account of what the area has to offer and what to be careful of and avoid.

Thanks for the information.

[Jester]

Contrarian, just want to give you a quick shout for always telling it like it is. I kind of grimace at how negative you sound sometimes, but I appreciate truthfulness.