I agree with your philosophy, though my knowledge of MMA isn't as broad in scope as yours. I think a combination of Thai Boxing, Wrestling and Jiujitsu give a fighter a broad range of both offence and defence in a fight, particularly against an opponent who also has knowledge of martial arts.Lucas88 wrote: ↑July 27th, 2022, 1:02 pmWhen it comes to the domain of grappling I myself have a different philosophy from most Jiujitsu practitioners. It is one which places wrestling at the center.
I believe that ideally a prospective grappler should acquire a proficient level in wrestling (freestyle or folkstyle) first. This is extremely feasible in countries like the US where wrestling is widely taught and practiced as a competitive sport from elementary school all the way to NCAA level. Wrestling offers a better grappling base than merely Jiujitsu in my view. Not only is it the most practical and most effective art for takedowns, throws and takedown defense but it also teaches how to control an opponent on the ground with unbelievable pressure and efficiency and allows one to develop good habits for Jiujitsu such as a heavy top-game and explosive scrambles. It is thought that a college-level wrestler has a level of ground control comparable to that of a BJJ brown belt albeit without the submissions or submission defenses. Wrestling is undeniably an excellent base for both MMA and submission grappling.
A proficient wrestler can learn Jiujitsu and advance through the belt system extremely quickly. He already has a deep knowledge of grips, body control, pinning techniques (usually with ungodly degrees of pressure) and transitional agility as well as a takedown game far superior to almost any pure Jiujitsu competitor, above-average athleticism and mental fortitude. A good wrestler who transitions into BJJ is often able to advance through the ranks in a matter of months rather than the normal time duration of years between belt promotions. A proficient wrestler new to Jiujitsu will typically dominate the Jiujitsu blue belts and purple belts positionally but get tapped out frequently due to his lack of knowledge of submissions. But as soon as he learns the basics of submissions and submission defense as well as the guard and how to pass it, he becomes almost unstoppable. It is easy for a proficient wrestler to add the principles of Jiujitsu to his existing wrestling base. It's like learning Italian when you already know Spanish.
If you are already a proficient wrestler and use this bolt-on approach to Jiujitsu, you don't even need a really high level of Jiujitsu for your submission game to be effective. You already have your elite level of ground control and body positioning through your years of wrestling practice. With even a blue belt or purple belt level of bolt-on Jiujitsu you'll be wrecking many pure Jiujitsu guys (many Jiujitsu guys hate rolling with wrestlers for this very reason). Your solid wrestling fundamentals will make your intermediate Jiujitsu much more efficient. So why spend half a decade or longer just to get to purple belt in BJJ like most people do when instead you can spend a half a decade intensively learning wrestling and then learn Jiujitsu in no time and be a more complete grappler with knowledge of both stand-up and ground and arguably better fundamentals all round?
Let's be honest about Jiujitsu schools. Most of them offer training programs that are inefficient as hell. Sure, some schools have some good grapplers, but there's a reason why it takes years for most people to obtain the higher ranks or even just a blue belt. BJJ training is often lackadaisical, lacks a defined scientific syllabus, and doesn't emphasize drilling anywhere near as much as it should. People just walk into the gym, leisurely roll with their buddies, and chatter endlessly with their training partners during drilling after the instructor has shown a few isolated techniques, given the typical talk about "hips" and then told his students to go away and practice them. Many Jiujitsu gyms are more like glorified social clubs. I find Jiujitsu training extremely boring for all of the above despite being a Jiujitsu purple belt myself. Training at Jiujitsu gyms with a bunch of BJJ fanboys always did my head in. That's one of the reasons why I decided to move more towards the MMA side.
Wrestling is also better for street fighting than Jiujitsu. Stand-up grappling can be used to control a fight and neutralize the strengths of a striker. It can also be used to keep the fight standing (against a Jiujitsu guy) and allow a wrestler with some rudimentary brawling skills to keep the fight in striking range. Many throws from wrestling are also brutally devastating on the pavement and can end a fight in an instant. Sure, a Jiujitsu guy might get the wrestler onto the ground -- usually by pulling guard -- and have an opportunity to use an armlock or a chokehold on the wrestler. But that's where basic bolt-on Jiujitsu comes into play. A proficient wrestler with blue belt level Jiujitsu is a completely different animal.
Also, you don't need that much Jiujitsu for street fights. Blue belt level is going to be more than enough 99% of the time. Purple belt level and above is necessary only for Jiujitsu competition itself against other expert ground fighters or MMA competition which features the submission game and these days requires a fighter to be rounded in all areas of combat.
So, in conclusion, my philosophy of grappling emphasizes the benefits of wrestling as the base and then bolt-on Jiujitsu training once one is advanced in wrestling. This is the approach which I would have taken had I grown up in an area where wrestling is commonly taught and practiced. Unfortunately I grew up in a place with only Jiujitsu (and basic Jiujitsu at that) and so it wasn't until my mid to late 20s that I began to train in wrestling too.
Also, it is important to note that BBJ isn't the only art of submission grappling. There's also Catch wrestling-influenced no-gi submission grappling schools, the Brazilian rival system of Luta Livre which is also no-gi and involves takedowns and leglocks, and also Eddie Bravo's innovative no-gi 10th Planet Jiujitsu offshoot. Some of these might be better options than Jiujitsu for a wrestler interested in learning submission grappling.
Most people here probably don't give a shit about wrestling, Jiujitsu or combat sports. Maybe only @WilliamSmith and @Pixel--Dude who's trained Muay Thai with me will care about my post.
@WilliamSmith Lucas88 and myself used to have a fight club where we would meet and spar with each other down the local park. Lucas88 was also going to teach me some of the fundamentals of wrestling and jujitsu to expand my repertoire of fighting skills. Unfortunately, since his kundalini incident we have been unable to continue our sparring, but I'd like to continue soon.
Where solo training is concerned I think Thai Boxing is okay to practice alone. It isn't possible to practice wrestling or jujitsu without a human crash dummy to perform the techniques on. Where one can condition their knuckles and wrists for heavy impact during a fight and even Thai kick walls and posts to condition their shins and make the impact of those Thai kicks more forceful.
Which martial artists in particular do you guys think have the best skill set and application of those skills in a competitive fight? What do you guys think of Conor McGregor and his deadly left hander?