Basic fighting skills

[Cornfed]

I've been looking on the web for knife defence strategies and everything I've seen is so stupid it makes me want to go up to the people and stab them. One conclusion to draw is that knife defence is a hard ask. If you are haplessly wandering around unarmed and some knife wielding maniac wants to murder you then it is quite likely he will succeed. On the positive side it means I can pass on the strategies I learned 30 years ago confident in the knowledge that I am giving my trainees their best shot.

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

I've been looking on the web for knife defence strategies and everything I've seen is so stupid it makes me want to go up to the people and stab them. One conclusion to draw is that knife defence is a hard ask. If you are haplessly wandering around unarmed and some knife wielding maniac wants to murder you then it is quite likely he will succeed. On the positive side it means I can pass on the strategies I learned 30 years ago confident in the knowledge that I am giving my trainees their best shot.

You also have to learn how to adhocly redistribute pain throughout your body as if you were a trained boxer; part of their training is how to deal with instant pain. As I like to say, "Let's go now and get it over with and then I'll take two in the morning as I wake up muffed up"

[Pixel--Dude]

I've been looking on the web for knife defence strategies and everything I've seen is so stupid it makes me want to go up to the people and stab them. One conclusion to draw is that knife defence is a hard ask. If you are haplessly wandering around unarmed and some knife wielding maniac wants to murder you then it is quite likely he will succeed. On the positive side it means I can pass on the strategies I learned 30 years ago confident in the knowledge that I am giving my trainees their best shot.

The best strategy when facing someone with a knife is to run away. If they're too p***y to fight hand to hand then best option is to get away from them. Other than that your only other option is to grab the wrist with one hand and just above the elbow with another hand to try and twist their arm and force them to drop the knife. Though I wouldn't bother trying my luck in this scenario. I'd just bravely run away.

[Cornfed]

The best strategy when facing someone with a knife is to run away. If they're too p***y to fight hand to hand then best option is to get away from them. Other than that your only other option is to grab the wrist with one hand and just above the elbow with another hand to try and twist their arm and force them to drop the knife. Though I wouldn't bother trying my luck in this scenario. I'd just bravely run away.

There are times you can't/won't run away and I have better strategies.

[Pixel--Dude]

The best strategy when facing someone with a knife is to run away. If they're too p***y to fight hand to hand then best option is to get away from them. Other than that your only other option is to grab the wrist with one hand and just above the elbow with another hand to try and twist their arm and force them to drop the knife. Though I wouldn't bother trying my luck in this scenario. I'd just bravely run away.

There are times you can't/won't run away and I have better strategies.

What strategies would you suggest? No, you're right. Running away isn't always an option.

[Shemp]

I take Shemp's point that what you can do with your body isn't much against modern weapons or multiple opponents, but the reality is that there are many situations in everyday life where a little fighting skill can come in handy.

Smart men let dummies do the physical fighting, except in true emergencies, where you must fight, in which case the goal is to kill or incapacitate your opponent and damn the legal consequences. In such situations, you always improvise a weapon, because humans because vastly more capable armed than unarmed. If you want to train, train improvising weapons, and whipping them out quickly. In particular, pointed things (screwdrivers, certain types of pens), things you can swing (lock in a sock), sharp things (box cutters ala those 9/11-terrorists) and sticks (sturdy umbrellas with point) are all excellent improvised weapons that are legal to carry in most of the USA, and probably elsewhere.

Only those who have never actually faced true violence think boxing skills are important. I've had guns shoved in my face 3 times by armed robbers (growing up in a crime ridden city in the southern USA, and yes, Cornfed, they were all African-American). What saved me is not fighting skills (I wrestled in high school until I got kicked off the team for drinking alcohol during season, so not a bad grappler), but psychological skills: calm words to keep the robbers happy and willing to let me live, because it was strongly in their interest to eliminate the witness. Whst I really needed growing up was not fighting skills, but the common sense to stop putting myself in danger (walking the streets at night, working night shift at a liquor store, etc).

And no, modern weapons per se are not the problem. Weapons in general are the problem, and criminals usually have weapons and prefer to strike unexpectedly. And they often work in groups. And if you win the fight in a foreign country, you have legal problems. Life in prison in Thailand or Colombia, let's say, for accidentally killing some guy who attacked you, would not be pleasant.

[Cornfed]

I take Shemp's point that what you can do with your body isn't much against modern weapons or multiple opponents, but the reality is that there are many situations in everyday life where a little fighting skill can come in handy.

Smart men let dummies do the physical fighting, except in true emergencies, where you must fight, in which case the goal is to kill or incapacitate your opponent and damn the legal consequences.

No, there are plenty of in-between situations. I don't know why you would want to write stupid things.

[Shemp]

No, there are plenty of in-between situations. I don't know why you would want to write stupid things.

I've lived 61 years on this planet and never encountered a true in-between situation. Unless your life/health is in danger, don't fight. Call the police, give the robbers what they want, walk away from insults. Obviously, when I was younger, I thought differently. I thought then that bravery and cowardice matter. In reality, bravery and cowardice are what other people think of us, and what other people think doesn't matter that much. Much better to be thought a coward and still be alive and healthy, than to be thought brave by people of no real importance and be dead or unhealthy. Fame, reputation, respect, admiration, etc are all just the applause of fools. This is the wisdom of age speaking.

[Cornfed]

Thinking of martial arts, it occurs to me that they are really simple. There is not much to them at all. Judo is two throws with ways of making them easier. Boxing is four punches and ways of standing and moving. I don't know how people manage to complicate the issue so much. With the right mind it should be possible to teach people to fight really easily.

[Shemp]

Yes, that's true. Apes don't really train at fighting and they do a pretty good job of it, especially the violent chimps (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-lJo9qkdIY, lots of racism in the comment section). Because humans have such weak jaws, we don't usually bite like chimps. Instead, the natural instinct of humans is to add a weapon to supplement our puny biting and clawing abilities. Contrary to internet rumors, prison inmates (whose fights resemble the attack on Jambo linked to above) focus mostly on hideable weapons (improvised knives in particular aka shivs) and skill at rapidly deploying hidden weapons rather than bodybuilding or boxing skills. Weapons plus fast and furious attack (surprise attack from behind of possible) as offensive skills. Protect your whole head, but especially eyes and throat, and solar plexus and liver and knees as defensive skills. That's about it.

No one really trains real fighting because it's too damn dangerous. You could train at slow speed (with fencer's helmet and torso padding to protect vulnerable spots) and focus on defense. You attack with rubber knife and sparring partner goes for weak spots mentioned above, pulling their own punches or armed with their own rubber knife. Do this with enough partners and eventually you develop instinctive defense skills. If you master defense and use fast, furious and armed as your offense, you're done.

[Lucas88]

I've found that at least in my part of the world violent encounters involving just fists and some rudimentary tussling are far more common than incidents of extreme violence involving knives and firearms (although knife crime is indeed high in certain bad inner-city neighborhoods). Typically some drunken wannabe tough guy will start a fist fight with somebody who they think they can beat in order to act "hard" or a petty bully will escalate a verbal argument to the point of physical aggression. Often attempts to reason with these people are futile - especially if their aggressive behavior is fueled by alcohol or drugs - and one might have no choice but to meet violence with violence. In light of this learning combat skills is indeed useful.

My current view with regard to learning combat skills is that basic MMA training is the best base. A few years of serious MMA training will teach you how to punch, kick, block, clinch and control an opponent with proper mechanics and give you the ability to react under pressure. It will soon put a learner into the upper percentile of combat proficiency. Some people will undoubtedly say that MMA is just a sport with rules and is not the same as real combat but here I emphasize MMA training simply as our base to which other things may be added, and besides, from what I've seen, MMA techniques are generally highly effective in unarmed street fights - certainly more effective than any traditional martial art or most self-styled self-defense programs. Those who are versed in MMA know how to fcuk people up with or without rules.

That said, MMA training obviously doesn't cover all aspects of real combat such as knife defense and certain specific self-defense scenarios so somebody who is really serious about self-defense should add onto their initial MMA base realistic knife defense training and glean whatever valuable knowledge they can from some of the better self-defense programs. The general idea is that we should adapt our MMA skills to lawless street fights and supplement them with other practical techniques and strategies.

A recap of my philosophy with regard to self-defense:

1. At least two years of solid MMA training

2. Additional specialized self-defense training and strategies against common weapons

[Cornfed]

A recap of my philosophy with regard to self-defense:

1. At least two years of solid MMA training

2. Additional specialized self-defense training and strategies against common weapons

My thinking now is that a short course could give people all the skills they need. After that it would be a matter of practicing.

[Cornfed]

Looking at self-defence videos on YouTube, it would appear they are pretty much all bullshit, much like most fitness videos. Is there no advantage to doing non-bullshit videos?

[Lucas88]

Looking at self-defence videos on YouTube, it would appear they are pretty much all bullshit, much like most fitness videos. Is there no advantage to doing non-bullshit videos?

Most "self-defense" material is just impractical garbage. As is most of the teaching that comes under the banner of "traditional martial arts". You know that a self-defense video is bullshit when you see a little petite Asian woman manhandling some big muscular dude with an armlock after he pretends to attack her with some rubber knife. The attacker is 100% compliant, of course.

I think that at this point genuine self-defense material is extremely rare. Our best option would be to take what we can from tried and tested combat arts like MMA, boxing, wrestling and Muay Thai and adapt it to lawless street situations.

As for specific self-defense scenarios, my uncle teaches a system that the police taught him when he was on the force. He showed me some defenses against common street attacks and they looked quite practical. I might ask him if there are any video courses available that teach the techniques. If I find any such materials I'll report back here with my findings.

[Cornfed]

I was going to wrap this up with another lesson or two, but it looks like another couple of people want to learn. Maybe these lessons will catch on.