Hybrid cars that run on electricity - What happened to them?

[Winston]

I heard long ago that there is now the technology for hybrid cars that run on a combination of gas and electricity or even on pure electricity alone. They are more expensive of course, but using electricity for running cars is cheaper than gas and would help the environment.

So why aren't they sold or marketed to the mainstream population? Why aren't they available at car dealerships? What happened to the free market?

Did the oil and gas companies suppress these cars somehow?

Will they ever become mainstream like shown in futuristic movies?

[Winston]

I have a question. If the US oil companies are preventing electric powered cars from being manufactured to protect their cartel, then why don't auto plants in Europe or Asia make them? They aren't controlled by US oil companies right?

[globetrotter]

Electric cars waste fuel, electricity and money. Automotive engineers ran the figures in the 1890's and determined it was/is easier to put the source of fuel close to the engine to save transportation and transmission costs. Thus you have a gas tank 3 meters from your ICB engine and not a battery charged at the outlet by electricity that travelled hundreds of miles through inefficient power lines.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

There are a few US cars that run on electricity as an option. Check out the Tesla, the Fisker, and the Volt. However, the automotive lobby has fought these technologies for YEARS since it would damage their profit margins.

Also, there needs to be supportive infrastructure developed to support these cars in the form of special recharging stations, repair facilities, etc. This impedes the growth of these new vehicles.

The Fisker is the most compelling since it has a solar-powered roof that charges when sitting in the sun!

[Winston]

Electric cars waste fuel, electricity and money. Automotive engineers ran the figures in the 1890's and determined it was/is easier to put the source of fuel close to the engine to save transportation and transmission costs. Thus you have a gas tank 3 meters from your ICB engine and not a battery charged at the outlet by electricity that travelled hundreds of miles through inefficient power lines.

How can they waste electricity? Energy can be harnessed naturally for free from the sun and from the ocean. Watch the film Zeitgeist Addendum for a list of many ways free energy can be harnessed. No one has to pay for energy. It can be abundant for all. It's the profit interests that are keeping this from being so.

I heard this technology was in place long ago.

So why don't auto plants in Europe and Asia build them?

[globetrotter]

How can they waste electricity?

They waste it by it being transmitted through the power line transmission system.

Conversion ratios for each step of the process:
ELECTRIC CAR
Efficiency Conversion/loss _ Application
64% chemicalÆmechanical coal/oil to shaft at generation plant
98% mechanical loss shaft bearing loss (2-8%)
86% mechanicalÆelectrical dynamo efficiency @ 30KVA (14-24% typical
loss)
96% electricalÆelectrical step-up voltage transformer 30KVA Æ100KVA
93% electric line loss average line loss in USA is 7.2-7.4%
93% electricalÆelectrical distribution step-down transformer 100KVA
Æ40KVA
93% electricalÆelectrical local distribution step-down transformer
40KVA Æ110VAC
93% electricalÆelectrical charger step-down rectifier 110VAC Æ12VDC
66% electricalÆchemical coulometric charge efficiency (66%best ever
achieved)
75% chemicalÆelectric battery discharge efficiency
88% electricÆmechanical electric motor efficiency
99% mechanical loss transmission loss to turn wheels
16.7% chemicalÆmechanical total efficiency well-to-wheel

GAS GUZZLER
Efficiency Conversion/loss _ Application
20-30% chemicalÆmechanical gasoline to tire (includes 1% mechanical
transmission loss)

**********

Note that most of this loss is from the power line system and cannot be improved with currently known tech. Making batteries 100% efficient still does not bring it up to gasoline standards.

This should not be a surprise. The Laws of Thermodynamics are still in effect. What is less energy intensive? Power source 6 feet away (gas tank) or a power source 300 miles away (electrical generating station). If you want to debate the cost of shipping gas to your gas station then we must also include the cost of shipping fuel to the power plant and the cost of the plant which is owned by the .Gov not a private enterprise. It requires energy to ship that electricity to you, put it through the wires into a battery.

Chemical to electrical is current the LEAST efficieny energy transferral method. That is what a battery is.

Like I posted, Engineers did these calculations 120 years ago and went with the ICE - Internal Combustion Engine. It isn't conspiracy, it is efficiency and cost. If we all had electric cars we would use MORE fuel not less, pollute MORE not less, consume oil FASTER not slower.

The only way to NOT pollute more is to make all electricity Nuclear, Solar, Geothermal, Wind or such, something the USA won't do. Haven't built a new Nuke Power Plant in 30+ years. France has it right. USA should follow their lead. Or burn that 1,000 year supply of coal. If all electricity in the USA were nuclear there would be 10 X more plants than now in the USA (104 to 1,000). This would cut back on Oil, Coal and NG consumption to the point where only usages would be for polymers and plastics. The USA could set up breeder reactors to process spent fuel and close the loop on waste.

Of course any breakthrough into zeropoint energy or safe, cheap, clean fusion would change everything.

[Winston]

Where do you get those figures? From the oil companies or from an objective unbiased source?

[globetrotter]

That is the transmission efficiency of the US power grid.

Electrical Engineering, in other words.

It's Science, readily verifiable.

[momopi]

I heard long ago that there is now the technology for hybrid cars that run on a combination of gas and electricity or even on pure electricity alone. They are more expensive of course, but using electricity for running cars is cheaper than gas and would help the environment.

So why aren't they sold or marketed to the mainstream population? Why aren't they available at car dealerships? What happened to the free market?

Did the oil and gas companies suppress these cars somehow?

Will they ever become mainstream like shown in futuristic movies?

Winston, the current generation of gas-electric hybrids have been on the mainsteram market for about 12 years. For more info, see here:

http://www.hybridcars.com/

You can walk into a car dealership here in Los Angeles today and buy a hybrid car, starting at $20,000 new.

[FuzzX]

There have been plenty of vehicles invented on Air Compression, Water, Electricity that are super efficient... My father used to do a Mechanic Show on the radio and we had a guy that had invented a car that ran on used fryer oil... his car always smelled like french fries, it was cool. Anyway we checked on him a year later and he was completely gone... no record, no house, nothing... gone.

[momopi]

There have been plenty of vehicles invented on Air Compression, Water, Electricity that are super efficient... My father used to do a Mechanic Show on the radio and we had a guy that had invented a car that ran on used fryer oil... his car always smelled like french fries, it was cool. Anyway we checked on him a year later and he was completely gone... no record, no house, nothing... gone.

http://www.greasecar.com/

[globetrotter]

There have been plenty of vehicles invented on Air Compression, Water, Electricity that are super efficient... My father used to do a Mechanic Show on the radio and we had a guy that had invented a car that ran on used fryer oil... his car always smelled like french fries, it was cool. Anyway we checked on him a year later and he was completely gone... no record, no house, nothing... gone.

If all the used fryer oil in the USA, 11 B liters a year, was recycled, you would only be able to replace 1% of the USA's entire oil needs for one year.

As biofuel is used more in a market the price of vegetable oil rises. Duh. Offsetting the costs. Then the $1,000 to convert your diesel to bio fuel. Then there is the STUPIDITY of converting food to fuel to burn.

A true bubble artifact. Let's make our food into fuel.

OOPS! Food prices are rising? How did that happen?

I know you guys don't believe me, but it saves the most energy to burn gasoline or diesel in an ICE from a tank 6 feet away. Until we get Mr. Fusion home reactors that is the best we can do now.

I haven't even mentioned battery life and replacement costs.

[crosiss]

The reason you dont see that many Hybrid cars that run on electricity is cause THEY ARE NOT PROFITABLE. The car parts and repair indutstry make over a 100 billion dollars a year .Hybrid cars that run on electricity you rotate the tires check the fluid hookup the computer and your done. no money to be made thats why. in my opinion



ps dont forget big oil they stand to lose trillions from gas and oil

[crosiss]

I have a question. If the US oil companies are preventing electric powered cars from being manufactured to protect their cartel, then why don't auto plants in Europe or Asia make them? They aren't controlled by US oil companies right?

Ill explain it like this first off its not the us alone. oil and gas company are like westlers in the ring they hate each other gut but in the back off camra they are all friends and stand to lose trillions they and politicians are they same their not in office to make changes their to keep everything the same. all of the problems we face in the world are not political they are technical and social.

[Lj1221]

Well, I watched a video entitled "What killed the electric car."

It was in fact, the gas companies, they actually gathered up all the efficient batteries, and patented them, then locked them away.

The reason we don't have renewable clean energy, is because of the government and it's politicians being run by the oil companies. See the oil companies fund the politicians advertising and costs that come with the whole politician thing. The gas companies pat the politicians on the back, and the politicians pat the oil companies.

It's a whole stroking session:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO ... re=related

Courtesy of late comedian "George Carlin" may he rest in peace. It all comes back to the social aspect, and the education system. We need to stop the division. It's our fault that we've fallen for the american dream. Why? Because you need to be asleep to believe it.